All Pro Staff 85 editions in photos.

[Pistol10]

Ok. Because many people don't know the differences between all versions of Pro Staff 85, I want to make this thread to show the differences in pictures.

I'll focus only on the main differences that you can detect easily in photos, other differences such as primary paint under paint job and the type of black color used for the paint job are really difficult to be detected in most photos, so I'll not mention it. Hope this will help who wants to buy one.

This is not complete,, I'm missing photos, I hope who has PS85 help us with some photos, and to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance to all. I'll keep updating this first post based on your posts.


This is a schedule below, you'll find all the editions. Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan, I'll describe it and mention some notes at the end of this post.

1) Throat.


* Chicago (bumperless):

Side1: Tension rec 65-70lbs lable:

Side2: Empty.

* Belgium: (bumperless).

Side1: Only one lable on throat, tension rec 55-65lbs:

Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.





* St. Vincent 1 (bumperless):
Side1: Same as Chicago.
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.


* St. Vincent 2 & 3 (100% The same paint job) :

Side1: Tension rec 55-65lbs lable:

Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.


* St. Vincent 4:
Side1:
Side2:


* St. Vincent 5: used by SAMPRAS (tension rec 50-60lbs printed on throat)

Side1:

Side2:

* Taiwan 1:

Side1:

Side2:

* Taiwan 2:
Side1: A recommendation of using Syn Gut was printed:

Side2: Same as Taiwan 1.





* China 1:
Side1: Note, Printed Pro Staff (first letter is capital letter) on the top :

Side2:

* China 2,3,4,5:
Side1: Note, printed "ProStaff6.0" on the top:

Side2:

2) End of grommet.
* In general, Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent have a square shape (slight differences):

* In general, Both Taiwan & All China have a round shape (slight differences):

Notes:
About the Taiwanese frames. There's 2 editions.
A_ The first edition is in the schedule. This one only was made of unidirectional graphite, not braided.

B_ The late edition. The same paint job, but Wilson added a recommendation of using Syn Gut.

 

[wilson fan]

Sorry.

 

[onehandbh]

Ok. Because many people don't know the differences between all versions of Pro Staff 85, I want to make this thread to show the differences in pictures.

I'll focus only on the main differences that you can detect easily in photos, other differences such as primary paint under paint job and the type of black color used for the paint job are really difficult to be detected in most photos, so I'll not mention it. Hope this will help who wants to buy one.

This is not complete,, I'm missing photos, I hope who has PS85 help us with some photos, and to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance to all. I'll keep updating this first post based on your posts.


This is a schedule below, you'll find all the editions. Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan, I'll describe it and mention some notes at the end of this post.

Here is one not on the list:

WRITING/WORDS ON THE THROAT AREA:
2000 Special Edition
Hyper Pro Staff 85
Midsize 85

UNSTRUNG WEIGHT:
329 grams (11.6 ounces)

FONT/WRITING racquet head:
AT TOP: "HYPER CARBON / BRAD TECHNOLOGY"
AT 10 & 2 O'clock: Gaint Wilson 'W' wrapped around racquet.

PRIMER: ?
REC TENSION LABEL: none
BG: Yes
THROAT GROMMET: 1 piece
BUTTCAP: black, red square with wilson 'W', Made in China
BUTTCAP CODE: GFZ
CODE LOCATION: Top

 

[Pistol10]

Thanks for the share. There is a guy was looking for some information about this edition.

I loved the specifications, 345g strung. @onehandbh How do you compare it to other ps85? Which ps85 you have/had?

 

[onehandbh]

Thanks for the share. There is a guy was looking for some information about this edition.

I loved the specifications, 345g strung. @onehandbh How do you compare it to other ps85? Which ps85 you have/had?

It's been awhile since I've hit with my regular PS85 racquets, so I can't remember. I have them in storage and will get a chance to hit with them in a month or so. I'll make a comparison then.

But going by memory, I'd say the hypercarbon PS85 seems to general spin a little bit easier. Might be b/c it weighs less or perhaps some difference in composition.

 

[onehandbh]

Another one I have is a Sampras Autograph Pro Staff.

Although I think it is 85 sq inches, the frame itself is slightly different from the other PS85s.
The throat /shaft just above the grip is slightly more narrow. Also, the frame is about 1mm thicker. I have it strung with cheap gut, but haven't hit with it yet with these strings. (49/47 lbs).

WRITING/WORDS ON THE THROAT AREA:
Pro Staff
80% Graphite + 20% Kevlar

COLOR:
The paintjob/color is different. It is a matte black on one side and then fades to a dark, sparkling green on the other side. The PWS writing is also in a dark green rectangle on one side and a purple rectangle on the other side. I seem to recall Sampras playing the French Open one year with this paintjob ( or different racquet).

UNSTRUNG WEIGHT:
?

STRUNG WEIGHT:
362 grams (12.7 ounces)
* I may have added a little head tape to add weight. can't remember. I also replaced the grip with a black Fairway leather grip. The original may have been a synthetic grip? Can't remember.

FONT/WRITING racquet head by throat:
Endorsed by Pete Sampras
(also has his signature printed on)

PRIMER: ?
REC TENSION LABEL: 50-60 lbs
BG: Yes
THROAT GROMMET: 3 piece
BUTTCAP: black, red square with wilson 'W', Made in China
BUTTCAP CODE: SDP
CODE LOCATION: Top

 

[Pistol10]

@onehandbh I've found your post

A couple versions of Pro Staff 85 to add to the mix.

(top to bottom)
1) Wilson Pro Staff Limited Midsize 95
2) Wilson Pro Staff 85 Pete Sampras Autograph
3) Wilson Hyper Pro Staff 85 2000 Special Edition

Using my construction calipers, I took a few measurements of the widths of the frames and also the width of the throat areas (when placed on a table) and noticed that the PS 85 and Limited PS 95 are very similar but one is 95 sq inches. The Sampras Autograph is slightly different, though.

Frame / frame width / throat width

Hyper Pro Staff 85 / 17.0mm / 30.6mm (top of head says "Hyper carbon / Braided Technology)
Limted Pro Staff 95 / 17.1mm / 30.6mm
Prostaff 85 Sampras Auto / 17.7mm / 28.6mm (throat says "80% Graphte+20% Kevlar")

 

[BlackAces]

Here is one not on the list:

WRITING/WORDS ON THE THROAT AREA:
2000 Special Edition
Hyper Pro Staff 85
Midsize 85

UNSTRUNG WEIGHT:
329 grams (11.6 ounces)

FONT/WRITING racquet head:
AT TOP: "HYPER CARBON / BRAD TECHNOLOGY"
AT 10 & 2 O'clock: Gaint Wilson 'W' wrapped around racquet.

PRIMER: ?
REC TENSION LABEL: none
BG: Yes
THROAT GROMMET: 1 piece
BUTTCAP: black, red square with wilson 'W', Made in China
BUTTCAP CODE: GFZ
CODE LOCATION: Top

This edition seems only released in Japan markets?

 

[CiscoPC600]

Maybe we should recall this thread the "Pro Staff 85 Photo Guide".

 

[onehandbh]

This edition seems only released in Japan markets?

Not sure if it was only released in Japan.

 

[joe sch]

Ok. Because many people don't know the differences between all versions of Pro Staff 85, I want to make this thread to show the differences in pictures.

I'll focus only on the main differences that you can detect easily in photos, other differences such as primary paint under paint job and the type of black color used for the paint job are really difficult to be detected in most photos, so I'll not mention it. Hope this will help who wants to buy one.

This is not complete,, I'm missing photos, I hope who has PS85 help us with some photos, and to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance to all. I'll keep updating this first post based on your posts.


This is a schedule below, you'll find all the editions. Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan, I'll describe it and mention some notes at the end of this post.

1) Throat.


* Chicago (bumperless):

Side1: Tension rec 65-70lbs lable:

Side2: Empty.

* Belgium: (bumperless).

Side1: Only one lable on throat, tension rec 55-65lbs:

Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.





* St. Vincent 1 (bumperless):
Side1: Same as Chicago.
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.


* St. Vincent 2 & 3 (100% The same paint job) :

Side1: Tension rec 55-65lbs lable:

Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.


* St. Vincent 4:
Side1:
Side2:


* St. Vincent 5: used by SAMPRAS (tension rec 50-60lbs printed on throat)

Side1:

Side2:

* Taiwan 1:

Side1:

Side2:

* Taiwan 2:
Side1: A recommendation of using Syn Gut was printed:

Side2: Same as Taiwan 1.





* China 1:
Side1: Note, Printed Pro Staff (first letter is capital letter) on the top :

Side2:

* China 2,3,4,5:
Side1: Note, printed "ProStaff6.0" on the top:

Side2:

2) End of grommet.
* In general, Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent have a square shape (slight differences):

* In general, Both Taiwan & All China have a round shape (slight differences):

Notes:
About the Taiwanese frames. There's 2 editions.
A_ The first edition is in the schedule. This one only was made of unidirectional graphite, not braided.

B_ The late edition. The same paint job, but Wilson added a recommendation of using Syn Gut.

Nice info! Do you have a nice table showing the models that the famous pros used including Sampras, Courier, Edberg, et all?

 

[Pistol10]

Nice info! Do you have a nice table showing the models that the famous pros used including Sampras, Courier, Edberg, et all?

These photos from the Internet. Currently, I only have a Taiwanese (late edition).

Sampras, Courier, Edberg, Federer, they used different editions, not the same one:
* Sampras used the latest edition of St.Vincent (No.5).
* Edberg ?
* Courier ?
* Federer used one of the Chineses (No.3 or 4 edition), it has a "ProStaff6.0" on the throat from the top, and black buttcap.

 

[Pistol10]

Good links:

http://thetenniswiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wilson+Pro+Staff+6.0+Original+Mid+85

http://blog.lekevin.com/tennis/jack-kramer-staff-pro-staff-85-st-vincent/

 

[Deleted member 3771]

Did you create the table?

Why do you think the Taiwan listen in the table is the Unidirectional Version and not the Braided Version? Has anyone ever seen a unidirectional version of the Taiwan?

 

[Pistol10]

Did you create the table?

Why do you think the Taiwan listen in the table is the Unidirectional Version and not the Braided Version? Has anyone ever seen a unidirectional version of the Taiwan?

No I didn't create the schedule above.

About the unidirectional ps taiwan (early version). Yes this is what a wilson senior designer has confirmed in his interview:
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/W6085/ProstaffOrigins.html

"After the St. Vincent factory closed, Wilson tried to make the rackets in Taiwan using an all uni-directional layup. However, the racquets didn't have the same feel as braided construction and they are now producing frames with braided product. According to Bill Severa, Senior Designer with Wilson Racquet Sports, "the uni-directional graphite ProStaffs were a stopgap measure. Within 4 months of the St. Vincent factory closing, we went through 12 - 15 iterations of braided construction. Shortly thereafter, we were up and running with braided construction ProStaffs from Taiwan. We feel we have the closest layup to the old St. Vincent frames and most players who've played with both agree. There will always be a few, like Pete Sampras, who prefer a particular racquet for whatever reasons."

He said they used the unidirectional then went back to braided, so I guess this mean: Early version (in the schedule) is unidirectional, the later (has a recommendation of using syn gut) is the braided.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

No I didn't create the schedule above.

About the unidirectional ps taiwan (early version). Yes this is what a wilson manager confirmed in his interview:
https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/W6085/ProstaffOrigins.html

After the St. Vincent factory closed, Wilson tried to make the rackets in Taiwan using an all uni-directional layup. However, the racquets didn't have the same feel as braided construction and they are now producing frames with braided product. According to Bill Severa, Senior Designer with Wilson Racquet Sports, "the uni-directional graphite ProStaffs were a stopgap measure. Within 4 months of the St. Vincent factory closing, we went through 12 - 15 iterations of braided construction. Shortly thereafter, we were up and running with braided construction ProStaffs from Taiwan. We feel we have the closest layup to the old St. Vincent frames and most players who've played with both agree. There will always be a few, like Pete Sampras, who prefer a particular racquet for whatever reasons."

He said they used the unidirectional then went back to braided, so I guess this mean: Early version (in the schedule) is unidirectional, the later (has a recommendation of using syn gut) is the braided.

The link you linked to ( http://blog.lekevin.com/tennis/jack-kramer-staff-pro-staff-85-st-vincent/ ) mentioned he has never seen a unidirectional Taiwan version. The Taiwan in the schedule might just refer to the braided version as the two editions of the braided version both fit the same info in that table, so they are 1 version for the purposes of that table.

Taiwan version 1: unidirectional (has anyone ever seen one?)

Taiwan version 2: braided
-early edition of version 2: no synthetic gut string recommendation
-later edition of version 2: synthetic gut string recommendation

It is possible that the unidirectional Taiwan version also fits that info in the table for the Taiwan Version, but no one has seen one so no one can confirm this. At least we know that the two editions of the braided version both fit the info on that table.

 

[Pistol10]

The link you linked to ( http://blog.lekevin.com/tennis/jack-kramer-staff-pro-staff-85-st-vincent/ ) mentioned he has never seen a unidirectional Taiwan version. The Taiwan in the schedule might just refer to the braided version as the two editions of the braided version both fit the same info in that table, so they are 1 version for the purposes of that table.

Taiwan version 1: unidirectional (has anyone ever seen one?)

Taiwan version 2: braided
-early edition of version 2: no synthetic gut string recommendation
-later edition of version 2: synthetic gut string recommendation

It is possible that the unidirectional Taiwan version also fits that info in the table for the Taiwan Version, but no one has seen one so no one can confirm this. At least we know that the two editions of the braided version both fit the info on that table.

But the senior designer confirmed that!
The only place they produced ps directly after closing st.vincent factory is in Taiwan, and there are 2 versions of it, so the big possibility is the first (uni), the later (braided).

 

[Pistol10]

Taiwan version 1: unidirectional (has anyone ever seen one?)

Taiwan version 2: braided
-early edition of version 2: no synthetic gut string recommendation
-later edition of version 2: synthetic gut string recommendation

Different scenario, might be correct.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

But the senior designer confirmed that!
The only place they produced ps directly after closing st.vincent factory is in Taiwan, and there are 2 versions of it, so the big possibility is the first (uni), the later (braided).

They either made them unidirectional for a short time as a stop gap measure or they 'tried to' make the pro staff unidirectional with the intention of using them as a stop-gap measure, but didn't like the results so didn't make and sell them and instead reverted to the braided construction.

Different scenario, might be correct.

Your original post stated :"Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan" so I just wanted to let you know that according to the criteria of the table there is no 'missing last "2nd" edition' that is not in the table since the braided Taiwan version fits all the criteria of the Taiwan in the table.

 

[joe sch]

These photos from the Internet. Currently, I only have a Taiwanese (late edition).

Sampras, Courier, Edberg, Federer, they used different editions, not the same one:
* Sampras used the latest edition of St.Vincent (No.5).
* Edberg ?
* Courier ?
* Federer used one of the Chineses (No.3 or 4 edition), it has a "ProStaff6.0" on the throat from the top, and black buttcap.

*Connors used the original prototype Chicago version (Im assume since he was used in the early Wilson racket advertising)

I have an ps85 before ps classic PJ so just need to identify what version it is ...
If anybody would like to help identify, I put many pictures here:
https://www.woodtennis.com/edberg/

 

[Pistol10]

*Connors used the original prototype Chicago version (Im assume since he was used in the early Wilson racket advertising)

I have an ps85 before ps classic PJ so just need to identify what version it is ...
If anybody would like to help identify, I put many pictures here:
https://www.woodtennis.com/edberg/

Yeah, I saw the commercial for Connors, he didn't make a good success using it though. Was discussed in a thread, don't remember where, maybe this thread.

About the racket, it's strange, completely different mold, throat is different, and looks more aerodynamic. Being honest man, the design of the throat is so modern! There are some face k factor 88 looks exactly like this one.

 

[Pistol10]

"the uni-directional graphite ProStaffs were a stopgap measure. Within 4 months of the St. Vincent factory closing, we went through 12 - 15 iterations of braided construction. Shortly thereafter, we were up and running with braided construction ProStaffs from Taiwan.

@TheNatural Do you think what he means is that they stoped the production for 4 months (after closing the St.vincent factory) till they found the Taiwanese braided graphite construction, and that's why they moved to Taiwan ? So, they stoped producing ps for 4 months?! Must they had a lot in stock!

 

[Deleted member 3771]

@TheNatural Do you think what he means is that they stoped the production for 4 months (after closing the St.vincent factory) till they found the Taiwanese braided graphite construction, and that's why they moved to Taiwan ? So, they stoped producing ps for 4 months?! Must they had a lot in stock!

I dont know. I'd be guessing just based on that paragraph. They probably decided to shift production to Taiwan due to cheaper cost of production in Taiwan. They could have stopped production for 4 months. They could have ramped up production in the ST. V factory before it closed in anticipation of transitioning their production to Taiwan so they would have extra stock to sell while they worked out how to make the braided pro staff properly in Taiwan, or if they could have sold the unidirectional version for a few months, or they could have just sold less rackets for 4 months.

 

[Pistol10]

@joe sch look at this one at yahoo auction japan:
https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=w215939574

 

[onehandbh]

@joe sch look at this one at yahoo auction japan:
https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=w215939574

I have one of the PS85s with that paintjob. I think I had two but sold one of them.

 

[Pistol10]

I have one of the PS85s with that paintjob. I think I had two but sold one of them.

How does it play comparing to chinese 6.0 85? Feel & stiffness.

In that link, the seller noted that it weighs 330g unstrung, is it correct?

Is it 80% / 20% braided graphite & kevlar?

 

[onehandbh]

I can't remember how much it weights but I think it felt a little lighter.
330 might be right. It is made in China.

I also have a HyperProstaff 85 that is 329g unstrung.

 

[joe sch]

@joe sch look at this one at yahoo auction japan:
https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=w215939574

Interesting but the translation is not very good.
It notes not Taiwan butt and original fairway grip that is also shrink wrapped.
Wonder how sourced?
My racket is NOS never strung with the tagged SE### inscription
I also have another that I strungup with gut for some hits.

 

[joe sch]

How does it play comparing to chinese 6.0 85? Feel & stiffness.

In that link, the seller noted that it weighs 330g unstrung, is it correct?

Is it 80% / 20% braided graphite & kevlar?

Hard to really compare since I would need to stringup another NOS chinese ps85 racket the same way to compare.

 

[Pistol10]

Hard to really compare since I would need to stringup another NOS chinese ps85 racket the same way to compare.

Do it soon please. And till me the differences, specially the stiffness (feel).

 

[joe sch]

Do it soon please. And till me the differences, specially the stiffness (feel).

Im not going to do it since I dont want to play a virgin and thus not be able to sell as NOS.
I dont expect the diffs to be that significant anyways.
Im the same way with the many NOS woods that I have since I have so many in 9/10 condition, why make a NOS played?
Slowly trying to sell many of my holdings, the market has really slowed down.

 

[proracketeer]

another

 

[Jannick]

another

Loving that dampener

 

[Pistol10]

another

What are the specifications?

 

[CiscoPC600]

another

Love the dampner.. Which frame is that?

 

[Addxyz]

Which version of the PS85 is the RF85 closest to?

 

[recsoares]

Wich is the one with LOWER stiffness rating?


Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk

 

[Steve Huff]

Amazing post. It really makes you wonder how many fake Pro Staffs there are floating around, and the owner has no idea that its fake.

 

[dnguyen]

Wanted to bump this thread.

Those Taiwanese unidirectional (early) and braided (later) version are the same moulds. It seems that mine is early version with the butt code "SFO"

 

[Sanglier]

The "F" in your "SFO" dates it to 1993, five years into SanHoSun's production run that began in 1989, and only two years before PS85 production was shifted to the mainland, so it's a "late-middle" Taiwan. If you are looking for the earliest Taiwan-made version, search for one with an "SB_" code.

 

[dnguyen]

The "F" in your "SFO" dates it to 1993, five years into SanHoSun's production run that began in 1989, and only two years before PS85 production was shifted to the mainland, so it's a "late-middle" Taiwan. If you are looking for the earliest Taiwan-made version, search for one with an "SB_" code.

Thank yo so much for your answer. What about SEX (not as in sex lol)?, it's a butt cap code. This would be a "late-middle" Taiwan

 

[Sanglier]

Thank yo so much for your answer. What about SEX (not as in sex lol)?, it's a butt cap code. This would be a "late-middle" Taiwan

The "E" here is one letter ahead of "F", and indicates 1992 manufacture. You'll find many frames stamped "XES" as well, with the letter order reversed; which is something they did from time to time to avoid accidental "naughty" words.

As I mentioned in that older PS85 thread, the year codes are recycled every 10 years, so in addition to 1992, "E" was also used in 1982, 2002, and 2012. Since no model stayed the same for more than 10 years, there is no chance of misdating any frame that still has its original buttcap.

 

[dnguyen]

The "E" here is one letter ahead of "F", and indicates 1992 manufacture. You'll find many frames stamped "XES" as well, with the letter order reversed; which is something they did from time to time to avoid accidental "naughty" words.

As I mentioned in that older PS85 thread, the year codes are recycled every 10 years, so in addition to 1992, "E" was also used in 1982, 2002, and 2012. Since no model stayed the same for more than 10 years, there is no chance of misdating any frame that still has its original buttcap.

Thank you for explaination. Your knowledge is very enriching!

Does unidirectional and braided layup are the same molds? One of them on the throat saying “recommendation to string with synethic gut”, does this mean it’s late version. Mine doesn’t have it as you said mine is late-middle version.

 

[dnguyen]

@Sanglier

See my thread for photos

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/pro-staff-85-verification.643353/

 

[Sanglier]

Does unidirectional and braided layup are the same molds? One of them on the throat saying “recommendation to string with synethic gut”, does this mean it’s late version. Mine doesn’t have it as you said mine is late-middle version.

I wouldn't get too hung up on these cosmetic minutiae. They might mean something to us collectors, but they don't always translate to anything substantive under the skin.

The unidirectional layup was tested in Taiwan early on according to a widely-cited interview involving a former Wilson employee, but I think his wording (as reported in the article) was ambiguous enough that one could take it to mean that early Taiwan production frames had a unidirectional layup, or that this idea was tested in Taiwan using prototypes but was not adopted for the actual production run. To my knowledge, no one has ever seen an early Taiwan-made frame that doesn't say "braided" on the shaft, so either Wilson had briefly engaged in deceptive marketing with the first batch of Taiwanese frames, or this is a myth that rose out of a misinterpretation of what that Wilson employee said during the interview.

I don't know which of these two scenarios is true.

Yes, the design was 8 years old by then; Wilson was in the middle of shutting down its St Vincent plant; the Wide-bodies were supposed to be the new quantum leap that would soon render everything else obsolete; so it is understandable that Wilson might have felt that it was the right moment to update the old work horse, even though it was still enjoying a cult following. However, the typical approach taken by Wilson when trying to entice their customers to accept a new design was to make the old and new products side by side for a period, sometimes adding a "2" to the name of the updated product to reinforce a sense of lineage and progression. This way they could market to customers who are looking for something new without infuriating the existing fans. Wilson, like everyone else, was far more likely to give a new paint job to an old product than to hide a new product under an old paint job. Consequently the idea that they had shipped a bunch of PS85 with a totally different layup but zero cosmetic change is very counter-intuitive to me.

I suppose one could sand down some "SB_" coded PS85 to see what's underneath the paint, or look for examples with severe court rashes. Worn spots on a braided layup look very different from those on a unidirectional layup. However, these "SB_" frames are extremely hard to find (I've only seen one example so far, an "SBO", and I'm not 100% sure that it's a "B" and not an "E", as all three letters were tightly bunched together. So it's quite possible that "SB_" frames might not exist at all. "SC_" frames, from 1990, definitely exist), so convincing their owners to sand them down or smash them repeatedly against the ground could be difficult.

 

[dnguyen]

I wouldn't get too hung up on these cosmetic minutiae. They might mean something to us collectors, but they don't always translate to anything substantive under the skin.

The unidirectional layup was tested in Taiwan early on according to a widely-cited interview involving a former Wilson employee, but I think his wording (as reported in the article) was ambiguous enough that one could take it to mean that early Taiwan production frames had a unidirectional layup, or that this idea was tested in Taiwan using prototypes but was not adopted for the actual production run. To my knowledge, no one has ever seen an early Taiwan-made frame that doesn't say "braided" on the shaft, so either Wilson had briefly engaged in deceptive marketing with the first batch of Taiwanese frames, or this is a myth that rose out of a misinterpretation of what that Wilson employee said during the interview.

I don't know which of these two scenarios is true.

Yes, the design was 8 years old by then; Wilson was in the middle of shutting down its St Vincent plant; the Wide-bodies were supposed to be the new quantum leap that would soon render everything else obsolete; so it is understandable that Wilson might have felt that it was the right moment to update the old work horse, even though it was still enjoying a cult following. However, the typical approach taken by Wilson when trying to entice their customers to accept a new design was to make the old and new products side by side for a period, sometimes adding a "2" to the name of the updated product to reinforce a sense of lineage and progression. This way they could market to customers who are looking for something new without infuriating the existing fans. Wilson, like everyone else, was far more likely to give a new paint job to an old product than to hide a new product under an old paint job. Consequently the idea that they had shipped a bunch of PS85 with a totally different layup but zero cosmetic change is very counter-intuitive to me.

I suppose one could sand down some "SB_" coded PS85 to see what's underneath the paint, or look for examples with severe court rashes. Worn spots on a braided layup look very different from those on a unidirectional layup. However, these "SB_" frames are extremely hard to find (I've only seen one example so far, an "SBO", and I'm not 100% sure that it's a "B" and not an "E", as all three letters were tightly bunched together. So it's quite possible that "SB_" frames might not exist at all. "SC_" frames, from 1990, definitely exist), so convincing their owners to sand them down or smash them repeatedly against the ground could be difficult.

Thank so much for well detailed post. Much appreciated so. I seem to like my SFO Taiwanese made racquet because it has almost a feel of St Vincent, and sort of head heavy. I have seen some photos due to misspelling - possible poor quality control, and I don't think it's fake either.

For example,

There are two frames with written words inside the throat of the racquets. There are two words: "racket' on the throat and "racquet" on the other one. Their designs are the same paint job, etc etc. Just misspelling those words. Do you think these are fakes or not? Even their weights are far off, one has 335g strung and the other has 347g strung.

 

[Pistol10]

I seem to like my SFO Taiwanese made racquet because it has almost a feel of St Vincent, and sort of head heavy.

Is the Taiwanese more head heavy than ST.VINCENT (in case both have the same weight)? Or is it because the handle might be liter (in case Taiwanese is liter)?

 

[dnguyen]

Is the Taiwanese more head heavy than ST.VINCENT (in case both have the same weight)? Or is it because the handle might be liter (in case Taiwanese is liter)?

Taiwanese version has better maneuverability than St Vincent due to lighter weight but it has less power than St Vincent. So I very much prefer St Vincent. Taiwanese and St Vincent has similar feeling. However, St Vincent is far heavier than Taiwanese.

 

[Fellous]

Great post, really appreciate the details.

I have a Wilson pro staff classic 85 that seems to be this style of frame, but doesn't quite fit into the parameters set out in the table:

The butt cap code is SJN printed above the W, so based on the information I've read this would suggest it was made in Taiwan? The butt cap is white with a red W and the trademark R is to the bottom right of the W.
However it is bumperless (no head/bumper guard), which would suggest one of the earlier production models (i.e. Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent)?
Furthermore the End of grommet has a square shape, again suggesting Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent.
The undercoat primer paint is not red or grey, but a baby blue, which I have not heard mentioned before, does anyone know if this was used?
Inside the throat is there is information about the PWS and they spell "racquet" the traditional way. On the other side of the throat is written the recommended string tension of 50-60lbs.

Does anyone know if this fits into any of the comparable well known production models?

All my information is from just reading your detailed posts, I'm a rookie and by no means an expert so any information would be gratefully received.

 

[dnguyen]

@Fellous

I wanna buy your racquet