RF_PRO_STAFF
Hall of Fame
Great post by the OP. I just received two pretty used PS 6.0 85's. OP post makes me confirm that mine are China models.
All Pro Staff 85 editions in photos.
- Thread starter Pistol10
- Start date
Hi to all.
Hi Pistol10. I have a doubt about the Chicago model because I own two racquets that the only difference between them is the sticker/label: "4 1/2 (L5) String at 65-70lbs" and the other "4 1/2 String at 65-70lbs" (without the "(L5)"). Could it be early chicago and late chicago?? The codes of the butcup are: GMI and GVI (bumperless both of them and all the caracteristic of Chicago`s models). I will take some photos to them.
Ok. Because many people don't know the differences between all versions of Pro Staff 85, I want to make this thread to show the differences in pictures.
I'll focus only on the main differences that you can detect easily in photos, other differences such as primary paint under paint job and the type of black color used for the paint job are really difficult to be detected in most photos, so I'll not mention it. Hope this will help who wants to buy one.
This is not complete,, I'm missing photos, I hope who has PS85 help us with some photos, and to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance to all. I'll keep updating this first post based on your posts.
This is a schedule below, you'll find all the editions. Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan, I'll describe it and mention some notes at the end of this post.
1) Throat.
* Chicago (bumperless):
Side1: Tension rec 65-70lbs lable:
Side2: Empty.
* Belgium: (bumperless).
Side1: Only one lable on throat, tension rec 55-65lbs:
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 1 (bumperless):
Side1: Same as Chicago.
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 2 & 3 (100% The same paint job) :
Side1: Tension rec 55-65lbs lable:
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 4:
Side1:
Side2:
* St. Vincent 5: used by SAMPRAS (tension rec 50-60lbs printed on throat)
Side1:
Side2:
* Taiwan 1:
Side1:
Side2:
* Taiwan 2:
Side1: A recommendation of using Syn Gut was printed:
Side2: Same as Taiwan 1.
* China 1:
Side1: Note, Printed Pro Staff (first letter is capital letter) on the top :
Side2:
* China 2,3,4,5:
Side1: Note, printed "ProStaff6.0" on the top:
Side2:
2) End of grommet.
* In general, Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent have a square shape (slight differences):
* In general, Both Taiwan & All China have a round shape (slight differences):
Notes:
About the Taiwanese frames. There's 2 editions.
A_ The first edition is in the schedule. This one only was made of unidirectional graphite, not braided.
B_ The late edition. The same paint job, but Wilson added a recommendation of using Syn Gut.
Hi Pistol10. I have a doubt about the Chicago model because I own two racquets that the only difference between them is the sticker/label: "4 1/2 (L5) String at 65-70lbs" and the other "4 1/2 String at 65-70lbs" (without the "(L5)"). Could it be early chicago and late chicago?? The codes of the butcup are: GMI and GVI (bumperless both of them and all the caracteristic of Chicago`s models). I will take some photos to them.
Sanglier
Professional
You've asked the same question in three separate threads now. Props for being persistent.
Short answer to your question: Yes, that HOQ frame on fleabay looks to be a perfectly legitimate 1985 St Vincent.
Slightly more drawn-out answer: Don't get so hung up on any single cosmetic detail! The identification guides you are struggling with are based on the cumulative observations of many different people over the years. They list common traits shared by racquets of various types, but are not necessarily comprehensive in any given aspect. Use them for what they are and exercise due judgement. Don't miss the forest for the trees!
In my own experience, the rounded grommet channel can indeed be seen on a small subset of SV frames. This is hardly surprising, given the fact that there was no single "St Vincent" mold, but rather dozens of molds individually machined to spec to support an operation of this scale. Worn or damaged molds are replaced with new ones as necessary. For a cosmetic detail as inconsequential as the shape of the tip of the grommet channel, minor variations over time are not only possible but highly probable.
As you seem to be new here, and if you are so inclined, I would recommend that you search and read through a few more old threads that touched on this subject, so as to get a better handle on the difference between the forest and the trees.
Thanks Mr ‘Sanglier’ for your reply! Yes I’m new here and I have indeed posted in three separate threads : p I have only recently been very interested in PS Midsize when a fellow player saw me playing with my PS Midplus 95 which I had bought in 1997 (GKY), and he thought it was Midsize. That got me re-ignited with my love for the PS Midsize. I’m from Singapore and in those days it was hard to get a PS Midsize. So with online shopping nowadays, I went on to get three relatively good condition Midsize: GRI (Chicago 1984); KTQ & KYQ (SV 1987). Then I noticed my KYQ has rounded off grommet channels and started to feel that I got duped. So I have started to search forums more intensively for more details, and apparently I haven't done enough homework. But I'm thrilled to learn new details about PS Midsize. And I have also come to know that your comments are very consistent and constructive, and you would also give good advices. I really respect that! Now I won't really mind if mines are fake or not, and the great part is: I really enjoy playing with each of these three Midsize. Once again, sorry to those who have to read my 'repeated' question again, as I do realized that the SV topics go back to since the early 2000s : ) Sorry to bore you with my 'story' and thanks again for your kind advices Mr 'Sanglier'! Take good care all and keep enjoying tennis!
Hi Mr 'chihuadog', thanks for your reply too. There is no printed text (decal?) on the inside the throat, only the old-school stickers on one side of the inside throat. Butt cap code is KYQ, a version 2 SV supposedly? String tension 55-65 with bumper guard. Actually I think even if this is a Taiwanese version, I will still love it as I wish to have a Chicago, SV and a Taiwan version to my collection : )
racquetfreak
Semi-Pro
the chart below is the latest update of the chart I created a number of years ago. The OP probably asked me if he could use it - several people have made that request over past years. With the exception of a few rackets, I have sold off my PS85 collection, privately and on **** (quaxrax).
Versions of Wilson Midsize Pro Staff Rackets in Approximate Chronological Order of Market Release
Versions of Wilson Midsize Pro Staff Rackets in Approximate Chronological Order of Market Release
VERSION | PRODUCTION SITE | NAME ON THROAT FACE | NAME ON OUTER THROAT | PRIMER | REC. TENSION LABEL | BG | THROAT GROMMET | LOGO ON WHITE BC | BC COLOR | 3-LETTER BUTTCAP CODE | CODE LOCATION ON BC |
1 | CHICAGO | PRO STAFF (throat face) | MIDSIZE (x2) (outer throat) | RED | 65-70 stick-on label | NO | 3-PIECE ARCED | W | WHITE | G*I | BOTTOM |
2 | BELGIUM (contracted out to Donnay) | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x2) | NONE? | 55-65 stick-on label | NO | 3-PIECE ARCED | W | WHITE | H*B or J*B | BOTTOM |
3 | SV1 (SAINT VINCENT, W.I.) | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x2) | RED | 65-70 stick-on label | NO | 3-PIECE ARCED | W | WHITE | H*Q or J*Q | BOTTOM |
4 | SV2 (SAINT VINCENT, W.I.) | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x2) | RED | 55-65 stick-on label | NO | 3-PIECE ARCED | W | WHITE | J*Q | BOTTOM |
5 | SV3 (SAINT VINCENT, W.I.) | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x2) | RED | 55-65 stick-on label | YES | 3-PIECE FLAT | W | WHITE | J*Q or K*Q | BOTTOM |
6 | SV4 (SAINT VINCENT, W.I.) | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x2) | RED | 50-60 printed on racket (por) | YES | 3-PIECE FLAT | WR | WHITE | K*Q | BOTTOM |
7 | SV5 (SAINT VINCENT, W.I.) | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x1) | RED | 50-60 (por) | YES | 3-PIECE FLAT | WR | WHITE | B*Q or A*Q or Q*A | BOTTOM |
8 | TAIWAN | PRO STAFF | MIDSIZE (x1) | WHITE GRAY | 50-60 (por) | YES | 3-PIECE FLAT | WR | WHITE | S** | TOP |
9 | CHINA 1 | Pro StaffR | MIDSIZE 85 | WHITE GRAY | 50-60 (por) | YES | 1-PIECE | WR | WHITE | G** | TOP |
10 | CHINA 2 | Pro Staff 6.0 | MIDSIZE 85 | WHITE GRAY | 50-60 (por) | YES | 1-PIECE | WR | WHITE | G** | TOP |
11 | CHINA 3 | Pro Staff 6.0 | MIDSIZE 85 | WHITE GRAY | 50-60 (por) | YES | 1-PIECE | na | BLACK | G** | TOP |
12* | CHINA 4* | Pro Staff 6.0 | MIDSIZE 85 | WHITE GRAY | 50-60 (por) | YES | 1-PIECE | na | BLACK | G** | TOP |
13 | CHINA 5 (TW release) | Pro Staff 6.0 | MIDSIZE 85 | WHITE GRAY | 50-60 (por) | YES | 1-PIECE | na | GOLD | | na |
- NOTE: version 12 differs from version 11 in that there is silver highlight over specs label on inside surface of throat.
Hi
photos.app.goo.gl
Do you think there's skmething wrong on the throat of that racket?
I'd like to know befor commiting to buy it.
Regards,
Benjamin
0 new items by Benjamin Rio
photos.app.goo.gl
I'd like to know befor commiting to buy it.
Regards,
Benjamin
Hi
Do you think there's skmething wrong on the throat of that racket?0 new items by Benjamin Rio
I'd like to know befor commiting to buy it.
Regards,
Benjamin
Did you see the butt cap code?
Nah i am going to ask. But i ma fine with either a Chicago or a St Vincent.
Do you think there's something wrong with the grommets on the throat of that racket? I didn't specify the worry was the grommets
Hard to see your photos. Butt cap code will help.
Judging the paintjob, I would say it's late model of St Vincent or Early Taiwanese verison. Both are good. If you want solid feel and plowthrough style with less manoeuvrability, choose this or if you want better manoeuvrability and less solid feel and plowthrough style, almost like whipping style, choose this.
It hasn't got any bumper guard. It has to be either a Chicago or a St Vincent.
ah that's why I couldn't see the whole things.
Definitely St Vincent. Look at the recommended tension.
racquetfreak
Semi-Pro
i don't see any base on the throat grommets - if racket is bumperless there should be three arced-base throat grommets; if racket has bumperguard, the three flat-based throat grommets. otherwise fine looking racket - clearly st vincent.Hi
Do you think there's skmething wrong on the throat of that racket?0 new items by Benjamin Rio
I'd like to know befor commiting to buy it.
Regards,
Benjamin
rjdveiga
New User
I also have this doubt! can someone help?
rjdveiga
New User
Hello all fans of Pro Staff 6.0 85.
I have some doubts and I would like to have your help if possible!
1 - The code of my PS is QTA, is it a St. Vincent?
2 - What is the year of my racket?
3 - How big is the Pro Staff grip?
Fairway Leather Grips - Double Handed 48 "x 15/16" - 122cm x 2.4cm
Fairway Leather Grips - Midsize 48 "x7 / 8" - 122cm x 2.2cm
Fairway Leather Grips - Standard 48 "x 3/4 - 122cm x 1.9cm
I hope your help! Thanks.
I have some doubts and I would like to have your help if possible!
1 - The code of my PS is QTA, is it a St. Vincent?
2 - What is the year of my racket?
3 - How big is the Pro Staff grip?
Fairway Leather Grips - Double Handed 48 "x 15/16" - 122cm x 2.4cm
Fairway Leather Grips - Midsize 48 "x7 / 8" - 122cm x 2.2cm
Fairway Leather Grips - Standard 48 "x 3/4 - 122cm x 1.9cm
I hope your help! Thanks.
Pro staff 85
Diminic D'Coco
Rookie
wasnt also one with the US flag? or was it another size\model?
NeilonNeil
New User
Hi !
I have 2 Wilson Staff models that could be the Taiwan versions you mention. It seems the name changed at some point to Pro Staff but mine are so similar. One butt cap says Taiwan and the other HMS. I was googling here to try and find info on these and if anyone could line me up with a new bumper guard as I use these rackets still daily. I don’t know if there is a vintage site I should post these on for their story.
Unfortunately, I can’t figure out the weird method to post pictures here, please message me with any tips. It appears to want to only show pictures already on the web.
thanks!
Neil
I bought new somewhere around 1990(I think) a Wilson Pro Staff 85. It say Taiwan on the white butt cap. And it says SDO for the code. Says 50-60 lbs tension, no synthetic gut recommendation. Says braided & Kevlar. Plays like the early version I had but sold years ago. If someone is interested in having this racquet I would like to sell it at a fair price, or even below market, and see it go to someone who collects these things. I'd say other than not having the original leather grip it's at least 90%. It's only been restrung a few times in its lifetime as I move on the Head racquets after I bought this one. Some small marks on the bg, but frame has no scratches nicks etc. Don't hit with any more cause I'm frigging too old now. Case is in great shape too!
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Are you still in Singapore? I used visit Singapore quite often and always brought a racquet with me to hit with friends there.
I was planning on visiting Singapore in Dec this year, but it looks like Singapore is closed and/requires a long quarantine even for people who are vaccinated and test negative for Covid.
djNEiGht
Legend
Happy Tuesday
I got a China 5 a while ago in a trade with a buddy. This has been my only experience with the PS85.
Recently in a another trade with @atatu I got what seems to be a China 1 or China 2. What has me unsure is the Throat Face says Pro Staff R but the Butt cap starts with "G**/GJW". Also the inside of the throat has one line separating the tension recommendations (tension range, higher tension control, lower tension power) on top and on the bottom says to use Perf. Plus TM String and fairway R Grip. End of the grommet channel looks more square than round. I do see white primer
grommets looks to be in decent shape and will probably be fine for a long time as I won't play with it regularly. Maybe just for warm up.
Either way....excited to have it.
I got a China 5 a while ago in a trade with a buddy. This has been my only experience with the PS85.
Recently in a another trade with @atatu I got what seems to be a China 1 or China 2. What has me unsure is the Throat Face says Pro Staff R but the Butt cap starts with "G**/GJW". Also the inside of the throat has one line separating the tension recommendations (tension range, higher tension control, lower tension power) on top and on the bottom says to use Perf. Plus TM String and fairway R Grip. End of the grommet channel looks more square than round. I do see white primer
grommets looks to be in decent shape and will probably be fine for a long time as I won't play with it regularly. Maybe just for warm up.
Either way....excited to have it.
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
Is the China made version good?. What Is it worth in mint Condition approx.?
wangs78
Legend
I have a few and they are not as stiff as the St. Vincent version that I own but I actually prefer a racquet that is slightly more forgiving so I think it’s great. There are some PS85 fans who will crap all over the China versions saying they’re terrible, but keep in mind that most/all Wilson racquets, including all of Federer’s PS90 and RF97 racquets, are made in China as well. If in mint condition I would say around $200, maybe? There just isn’t a ton of demand for it at this point.
djNEiGht
Legend
@chrischris
also which China version is it? That might mean something in the resale market. IMO the last china with the modern butt cap would prob go for the lowest on the resale market.
also which China version is it? That might mean something in the resale market. IMO the last china with the modern butt cap would prob go for the lowest on the resale market.
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
Post a photo of it please
ngoster
Semi-Pro
wangs78
Legend
I have both the St. V and a few different China versions. The St. V is stiffer, feels heavier and yes, has more plow through but it is also less maneuverable. The China versions are less stiff than the St. V (although it certainly is not a flexy racquet) and is more maneuverable. All in all, the China version seems more playable / user friendly. I would say the St. V is for someone who is a purist and really wants that original feel while the China version is for someone who wants to experience the small headsize and box beam feel but with greater comfort than the St. V. Another thing, the China version has a feel much closer to all of the PS90's that Federer played, as those were all made in China as well.
Hi….. one of my PS 85’s the word “racket” is spelled like this not “racquet”….. is this the sign of a fake?Ok. Because many people don't know the differences between all versions of Pro Staff 85, I want to make this thread to show the differences in pictures.
I'll focus only on the main differences that you can detect easily in photos, other differences such as primary paint under paint job and the type of black color used for the paint job are really difficult to be detected in most photos, so I'll not mention it. Hope this will help who wants to buy one.
This is not complete,, I'm missing photos, I hope who has PS85 help us with some photos, and to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance to all. I'll keep updating this first post based on your posts.
This is a schedule below, you'll find all the editions. Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan, I'll describe it and mention some notes at the end of this post.
1) Throat.
* Chicago (bumperless):
Side1: Tension rec 65-70lbs lable:
Side2: Empty.
* Belgium: (bumperless).
Side1: Only one lable on throat, tension rec 55-65lbs:
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 1 (bumperless):
Side1: Same as Chicago.
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 2 & 3 (100% The same paint job) :
Side1: Tension rec 55-65lbs lable:
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 4:
Side1:
Side2:
* St. Vincent 5: used by SAMPRAS (tension rec 50-60lbs printed on throat)
Side1:
Side2:
* Taiwan 1:
Side1:
Side2:
* Taiwan 2:
Side1: A recommendation of using Syn Gut was printed:
Side2: Same as Taiwan 1.
* China 1:
Side1: Note, Printed Pro Staff (first letter is capital letter) on the top :
Side2:
* China 2,3,4,5:
Side1: Note, printed "ProStaff6.0" on the top:
Side2:
2) End of grommet.
* In general, Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent have a square shape (slight differences):
* In general, Both Taiwan & All China have a round shape (slight differences):
Notes:
About the Taiwanese frames. There's 2 editions.
A_ The first edition is in the schedule. This one only was made of unidirectional graphite, not braided.
B_ The late edition. The same paint job, but Wilson added a recommendation of using Syn Gut.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I read that rumour somewhere too, but the baking wouldn't go well if the mould didn't close, because it's both temperature and pressure dependent, so we can rule that out. The mould theoretically could become warn and enlarged, but that's also unlikely as the grommets etc wouldn't fit, so I'd say it's just some people get slightly different measure. My SV3 is 17.5mm based on my amatuerish measuring, but also comparison to other frames.
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Ok. Because many people don't know the differences between all versions of Pro Staff 85, I want to make this thread to show the differences in pictures.
I'll focus only on the main differences that you can detect easily in photos, other differences such as primary paint under paint job and the type of black color used for the paint job are really difficult to be detected in most photos, so I'll not mention it. Hope this will help who wants to buy one.
This is not complete,, I'm missing photos, I hope who has PS85 help us with some photos, and to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks in advance to all. I'll keep updating this first post based on your posts.
This is a schedule below, you'll find all the editions. Note: one edition is missed which is the last "second" edition of made in Taiwan, I'll describe it and mention some notes at the end of this post.
1) Throat.
* Chicago (bumperless):
Side1: Tension rec 65-70lbs lable:
Side2: Empty.
* Belgium: (bumperless).
Side1: Only one lable on throat, tension rec 55-65lbs:
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 1 (bumperless):
Side1: Same as Chicago.
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 2 & 3 (100% The same paint job) :
Side1: Tension rec 55-65lbs lable:
Side2: Empty, same as Chicago.
* St. Vincent 4:
Side1:
Side2:
* St. Vincent 5: used by SAMPRAS (tension rec 50-60lbs printed on throat)
Side1:
Side2:
* Taiwan 1:
Side1:
Side2:
* Taiwan 2:
Side1: A recommendation of using Syn Gut was printed:
Side2: Same as Taiwan 1.
* China 1:
Side1: Note, Printed Pro Staff (first letter is capital letter) on the top :
Side2:
* China 2,3,4,5:
Side1: Note, printed "ProStaff6.0" on the top:
Side2:
2) End of grommet.
* In general, Chicago, Belgium, All St. Vincent have a square shape (slight differences):
* In general, Both Taiwan & All China have a round shape (slight differences):
Notes:
About the Taiwanese frames. There's 2 editions.
A_ The first edition is in the schedule. This one only was made of unidirectional graphite, not braided.
B_ The late edition. The same paint job, but Wilson added a recommendation of using Syn Gut.
Thank you to the OP for the very useful chart and thread. I've been a lifelong PS Classic 6.1 player since my college days from back in '92. Always been a fan of that frame. Fast forward almost 30 yrs later and I stumble across a PS 85 while on vacation in San Francisco in the summer of 2021. That same night I bought the PS 85, I would also come across this thread in my search to see if I found a St Vincent frame. Thanks to this thread, I determined that the frame is an original Chicago frame with a butt cap code of GNI. The grommets are quite brittle and most have crumbled away so I haven't been able to restring the racket. I will probably look into getting some Fittex grommets to see if I can repair the grommets for use again. Last night while browsing FB Marketplace, I stumbled upon a local listing for a PS 85. A couple hours later and I had it in my possession. The racket had some old syn gut on it with head protection tape at the top of the head, but the racket looked like it had not been played with much let alone played with at all. The grommets are as mint as they can be for a 40 yr old racket and the frame was in absolutely near perfect condition without a scratch or mark. The leather grip was also in pristine condition. This racket is pretty much NOS. The butt cap code was faint as the engraving isn't as deep as my Chicago PS 85 frame, but I could make out that it was HMQ with the tail of the Q being quite faded. Thanks to this thread, I was able to confirm that it is a SV1 St. Vincent frame. I'm so stoked about the treasure find and will definitely string it up for some court time. Below are some pictures of both rackets. They both cleaned up very well. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the Chicago paint is glossy at the throat and a little less glossy at the head while the SV1 is matte all around.
Chicago PS 85
SV1 St. Vincent
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Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
As this is the most detail orientated PS85 thread, may I ask a question about the bumper on the SV3 model: does the grommet strip continue all around the hoop with the bumper being a separate piece on top, or does the grommet strip stop after a bit of overlap, and the bumper is the only piece around the top? I would like to remove the bumper on mine, and am hoping that is easy if the grommet strip is continuous, but I noted that the grommet strip has the 22D code, whereas the strips on other Wilson 85s (including Graphite Matrix, GTX-2000 and 80/20) without bumpers have a 22C code. Perhaps someone with an SV3 who has removed the bumper could comfirm, or someone with an SV2 (bumperless) could check the grommet code on that version. Thanks!
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Grommets strip isn’t continuous. The bumper guard is a separate that’s only at the top. The grommets strip ends where the bumper begins
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
Much obliged. Time to trim the bumper then.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I trimmed the bumper on my SV3, which reduced the weight by 2.5g, so must be around 7.5 SW points less. The hoop still feels super solid and remains a very powerful hitter. A nice improvement since the bumper was already quite tatty.
BDAZ
Hall of Fame
another
What is this racquet??? I had similar, but red.
Yep, half is transparent paint and you can clearly see this braided graphite. This is one of the best paintjobs I saw, especially in the sun. I found it somewhere I guess 1995 as used in a tennis shop in Malta.
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DerPflegerDUS
New User
Could this ultimative classic also serve as an investment ?
ibb.co
Screenshot-20230309-115602-e-Bay hosted at ImgBB
Image Screenshot-20230309-115602-e-Bay hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co
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michael valek
Hall of Fame
If anyone has a few of these they are looking to sell, let me know. Thanks.
forzamr_b
Rookie
PM me
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