ALL scholarships will go to foreigners

[tennismom42]

Well, here's a lovely article: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4579737

It seems that the NCAA is too lazy to verify amateurism. So they plan to do away with the amateurism rule.

Many pros, those that practice with pro teams, teammates on pro teams, those that receive high sums of money for living expenses, and those that accept prize money beyond expenses will all be acceptable recruits for USA college scholarships, under the 2010 proposal.

That means a terrible blow to Jr. Tennis! As it is an international sport, more if not all the scholarships will go to foreigners who have been groomed to be professionals.

I am not sure who to complain to about this. It is under review with the NCAA right now. Hockey coaches are the only sport that coaches have complained about the new rule.

Suggestions?
Thoughts?

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

It is interesting the way they present its purpose....to prevent players from being penalized if they accidentally play "alongside" a teammate that took money from a club while playing internationally.

If that is the intent just make the rule that accidentally playing alongside a teammate who took money is NOT a penalty! Common sense....which means the true purpose is not that one.

I have to agree, it seems more like a way to go after international players without having to check their backgrounds.

 

[cmb]

Anyway I don't know what the problem is so much. How many tennis players are actually making money? A euro player that is being recruited to play in college is definitely not making too much more then his expenses. Its a non issue really, its not like basketball, in euro basketball clubs they make real money, in euro tennis team matches they dont make that much money.

However I agree that only 1 scholarship should go to a foreign player, because on euro tennis teams they only allow 1 foreign player on the team.

 

[tennismom42]

Anyway I don't know what the problem is so much. How many tennis players are actually making money? A euro player that is being recruited to play in college is definitely not making too much more then his expenses. Its a non issue really, its not like basketball, in euro basketball clubs they make real money, in euro tennis team matches they dont make that much money.

However I agree that only 1 scholarship should go to a foreign player, because on euro tennis teams they only allow 1 foreign player on the team.

The euro players are paid to practice, paid to hold a racquet, paid to be on the club team, paid to travel to a tournament, entry fees paid. It costs the eruo family nothing to develop their child. Whereas, we pay lessons for our kids and we pay for all the costs. US parents spend lots of $$$ on training the kids in practice & traveling to tournaments. So the euro players ARE making the money spent for their development + prize money.

What I can't figure out, is why on earth coaches ASSume foreign players are better? That is so stupid. My kid has spanked plenty of foreign butt this year, much to my delight!

 

[cmb]

lol, you really beleive this. This could not be farther from the truth. And it definitely does NOT apply to 90 percent of the recruits that come to the states for college. Nobody pays them to practice. Paid to hold a racket...I hope you are exaggerating on this one. Not all are paid to be on a club team, IMO you have to have the level to be playing number 1 on a mid/lower level college team to be able to earn money for team matches. There simply is not as much money availible in germany/france/italy/holland to be paying players that much money. Players from Eastern europe don't have clubs that pay money, south americans don't either.
The last 3 items you are semi correct on. Paid to travel to a tournament...not really, what the club will do, depending on your level, will give you X amount of money to play for the club team, this money...for a lower level college player would be about 1000 euros in france, maximum, you will use this money to pay for anything related to tennis tournaments. In some clubs you need to show receipts to the club in order to get your money.

In france the tournaments are close to your house most of the time, When I played in france I played close to 40 tournaments in 6 months and I spent a total of 2200 euros in expenses. The tournaments are not as spread out as in the states.
French kids have an advantage here, But its has nothing to do with being a PRO or not, their Federations have made it affordable to play at a high level, The USTA only cares if you have enough money to spend X amount of $ per year to travel/develop.

 

[tenniscrazed]

lol, you really beleive this. This could not be farther from the truth. And it definitely does NOT apply to 90 percent of the recruits that come to the states for college. Nobody pays them to practice. Paid to hold a racket...I hope you are exaggerating on this one. Not all are paid to be on a club team, IMO you have to have the level to be playing number 1 on a mid/lower level college team to be able to earn money for team matches. There simply is not as much money availible in germany/france/italy/holland to be paying players that much money. Players from Eastern europe don't have clubs that pay money, south americans don't either.
The last 3 items you are semi correct on. Paid to travel to a tournament...not really, what the club will do, depending on your level, will give you X amount of money to play for the club team, this money...for a lower level college player would be about 1000 euros in france, maximum, you will use this money to pay for anything related to tennis tournaments. In some clubs you need to show receipts to the club in order to get your money.

In france the tournaments are close to your house most of the time, When I played in france I played close to 40 tournaments in 6 months and I spent a total of 2200 euros in expenses. The tournaments are not as spread out as in the states.
French kids have an advantage here, But its has nothing to do with being a PRO or not, their Federations have made it affordable to play at a high level, The USTA only cares if you have enough money to spend X amount of $ per year to travel/develop.

^^^^^ absolutely 100% correct about all that is written above. Further, and as important. Look at how many F#'s there are within a 2 hour train ride of France, Spain, and Italy. Then look at how many ATP events there are. You will be rudely awakened by the priority of our federation, and the priority of our competitors.

I did it....It's not pretty.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

The euro players are paid to practice, paid to hold a racquet, paid to be on the club team, paid to travel to a tournament, entry fees paid. It costs the eruo family nothing to develop their child. Whereas, we pay lessons for our kids and we pay for all the costs. US parents spend lots of $$$ on training the kids in practice & traveling to tournaments. So the euro players ARE making the money spent for their development + prize money.

What I can't figure out, is why on earth coaches ASSume foreign players are better? That is so stupid. My kid has spanked plenty of foreign butt this year, much to my delight!

College coaches do not assume anything or they will be out of a job. College coaches want the best players that can win for their program.

If your kid is spanking players and is better he will get the scholarship.

To be honest, I just don't see the hunger in American kids. For example, the last 3 nights I have taken my daughter to our local courts. Amazing weather, 20 Har Tru courts, you can turn the lights on anytime you want up until 10 pm.

I see the foreign kids on the courts every night. (we are in southwest FL and have a mix of nationalities in our tennis club) The American kids saunter in late afternoon, texting most of the time, gone in an hour. The foreign kids are there in the afternoon AND back after dinner to hit some more.

This isn't rocket science, the kids who work the hardest are rising to the top, some playing on crappy courts, some on nicer courts. Its the work ethic, not the nationality.

By the way, I spend tons of time at IMG and Saddlebrook, along with clubs around FL. where the elite kids train. You need to lose the anti foreigner attitude. The best kids are like a very competitive family and are from all over. That delighting in beating "foreign " players is worthless as your kid rises into the upper tennis echelons. It just is not that kind of sport today. You will find lots more enjoyment in the tennis process by embracing the fact that it is truly an international game with the best coaches and players and tennis parents coming from everywhere.

 

[AndrewD]

Thoughts?

First thought is that you should change your handle to 'Red Dawn', it'd be far more appropriate.

 

[tennismom42]

College coaches do not assume anything or they will be out of a job. College coaches want the best players that can win for their program.

Well, I disagree. I think most coaches do erroneously assume that international players are better than domestic players. Where is the statistical data to prove this? There is no comparing the top 10% of the foreign recruits to the top 10% of the domestic recruits. Someone please tell me how a coach can compare ITF rankings to USTA rankings? I don't think so. It's nothing but speculation. So then what? videos, personal viewings, the ever elusive try-outs that coaches are NOT allowed to do? (but they do it anyway)?

Sure there is some merit to each of these methods for considering a recruit, but I don't believe any of them are hard & fast truism. Assuming foreign talent is better talent is discrimination and presumptuous. It's like saying, "oh, I am going to vote for an african american because he's african american. or I am going to hire this person because his left ear hangs lower than his right ear.

It takes a lot more than presumption and discrimination to evaluate & compare one recruit to another.

 

[Vyse]

this s horrible, so many already went to them as is. D1 is gonna be just ridiculous now. Not cool at all. maybe theyll realize this after awhile

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Well, I disagree. I think most coaches do erroneously assume that international players are better than domestic players. Where is the statistical data to prove this? There is no comparing the top 10% of the foreign recruits to the top 10% of the domestic recruits. Someone please tell me how a coach can compare ITF rankings to USTA rankings? I don't think so. It's nothing but speculation. So then what? videos, personal viewings, the ever elusive try-outs that coaches are NOT allowed to do? (but they do it anyway)?

Sure there is some merit to each of these methods for considering a recruit, but I don't believe any of them are hard & fast truism. Assuming foreign talent is better talent is discrimination and presumptuous. It's like saying, "oh, I am going to vote for an african american because he's african american. or I am going to hire this person because his left ear hangs lower than his right ear.

It takes a lot more than presumption and discrimination to evaluate & compare one recruit to another.

Coaches rely on all the different methods you mentioned. There are no American players being discriminated against at all, only the typical American tennis parent victim mentality. Talent and hard work is blind to skin color and nationality.

If your kid is working harder than and is more talented than another player, he will succeed in tennis no matter his color of nationality. If he fails, it is because he just is not good enough. Of course most American parents have to find something or someone to blame when their darlings fail.

From this and your past posts I can read between the lines that you have issues with other nationalities and races.

To each their own, good luck.

 

[tennismom42]

Coaches rely on all the different methods you mentioned. There are no American players being discriminated against at all, only the typical American tennis parent victim mentality. Talent and hard work is blind to skin color and nationality.

If your kid is working harder than and is more talented than another player, he will succeed in tennis no matter his color of nationality. If he fails, it is because he just is not good enough. Of course most American parents have to find something or someone to blame when their darlings fail.

From this and your past posts I can read between the lines that you have issues with other nationalities and races.

To each their own, good luck.

apparently you've lost your mind & have forgotten 90% of what I've posted or something??? My son is already in college on a tennis scholarship. He's been in the top 100 USTA rankings for > a year. Ummm, I think he "made it." You yourself have even complimented my son and asked to go watch him play.

Try again to understand what I've said: there is no comparing USTA stats to ITF stats, unless there happens to be a one-on-one match. Therefore, coaches are giving away scholarships to players simply on the basis that their passports are not dark blue.

International players = parents don't have to pay for their training; kid gets US scholarship.

USA players = parents DO have to pay for kids' training; kid loses scholarship (not because his talent is inferior because he does spank international butt), but rather he loses the scholarship because his passport is dark blue. Make sense to you yet?!?!?!

"But with the rise of the Internet as a recruiting tool, their numbers have exploded. There are now about 10,000 foreign athletes in Division I, three times as many as there were a decade ago." http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4579737

My customer base, for my work, is 80% international. I've lived in 14 different countries in my life, so far. I speak three languages. I have an international business degree. How about you?! I thrive in the international arena. I am fuming that people like you think it's about winning. SHow some ethics -- it's about what's right! When all the college scholarships are given away to non-dark blue passport holders, will you be happy that team wins a match against another foreigner? Wow! The thought of it makes me want to barf. The day our colleges athletics are 100% foreign players, will be a sad day indeed. Recruiters need to get their head screwed on right and stop being prejudice.

BTW, it's a proven fact that international students, graduating from US colleges are the worst donor alumni. So when our US colleges fold, for lack of donor support, will you feel like a winner then, too? It's the ultimate manifestation that the foreigners bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[Dream_On]

The euro players are paid to practice, paid to hold a racquet, paid to be on the club team, paid to travel to a tournament, entry fees paid. It costs the eruo family nothing to develop their child. Whereas, we pay lessons for our kids and we pay for all the costs. US parents spend lots of $$$ on training the kids in practice & traveling to tournaments. So the euro players ARE making the money spent for their development + prize money.

What I can't figure out, is why on earth coaches ASSume foreign players are better? That is so stupid. My kid has spanked plenty of foreign butt this year, much to my delight!

Haha Absolute BS

In europe if you are not in top 10 in the country you dont get any help, parents have to pay the same as you do in the usa

 

[AndrewD]

Haha Absolute BS

In europe if you are not in top 10 in the country you dont get any help, parents have to pay the same as you do in the usa

We all know it's BS (I mean, she thinks that the parents of international players don't have to pay for their training - that's just moronic). Thing is, she's got a problem with people who aren't American. But don't take it personally, if there were no international players in college tennis she'd be complaining that players from one state get preferential treatment.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

We all know it's BS (I mean, she thinks that the parents of international players don't have to pay for their training - that's just moronic). Thing is, she's got a problem with people who aren't American. But don't take it personally, if there were no international players in college tennis she'd be complaining that players from one state get preferential treatment.

Its just ridiculous to be 'anti-foreigner' and be involved in tennis. First of all this forum is an international tennis forum. Many posters here are from outside the US.

Tennis is a great way to meet people from all over. On the court the kids try to beat the stuffing out of each other, off the court they learn all about each others cultures. It truly is one of the best sports for kids to be involved with and meet all types of people.

But this notion that coaches, etc. are ignoring American players who are better is just silly. Great American players help attract attention to college programs, get huge media coverage, and if very good make tons of money for everyone.....just look at the clamor over Melanie Oudin. She got 10000 times more attention and coverage than 18 year old foreign players who have actually won pro titles.

There also is the networking factor. It is impossible for an American kid to be great at tennis and not meet lots of powerful people, people who have connections at the top colleges. Of course if mom is going around taking special delight beating foreign players and putting out the bad attitude she won't see the opportunities all around her kid.

The best American juniors always get FIRST look by every single college program and tennis scouts from IMG, etc.

 

[tennismom42]

But this notion that coaches, etc. are ignoring American players who are better is just silly.

The best American juniors always get FIRST look by every single college program and tennis scouts from IMG, etc.

I never said they are ignoring American players. I keep saying that coaches clamor to some weird idea that importing international players is drama, excitement & somehow they're better when there's no statistical means to compare the domestic rankings to the international rankings.

It's not about drama, it's not about glamour, it's not about winning. There is a respectable distinction between amateur and professional. Surely we can agree on that?!

College tennis programs should not be packed with professsionals. Just like the Olympics should not be packed with professionals. (I hated watching tennis pros in the Olympics. It's not the spirit of the Olympics.)

 

[advantagetennis1]

im actually going to have to agree with tennismom, this is ridiculous. Its already tough to get a scholarship due to football and there being less scholarships then add in the amount of foreign recruits, and now this new rule? this is ridiculous im going to be a senior next year and im top 300 on the boys 18's nat. list. idk what to expect from colleges and im fairly worried. tennismom, my screen name is a hint to where i go.

 

[SoCal10s]

I agree with tennismom..with the boys college tennis teams are getting axed all over the place.. I see a lot of UC schools cutting the tennis team sometime soon too.. Calif. is broke and they're gonna start cutting like AZ state did.. it's a shame that colleges go int'l to get their players when there are so many good talents around.. a top 100 ITF got spanked by my 14 year old.. the ITF player got a full ride to a D1 school site un-scene no try outs,the coach just went after an ITF rankings without seeing the player..

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I agree with tennismom..with the boys college tennis teams are getting axed all over the place.. I see a lot of UC schools cutting the tennis team sometime soon too.. Calif. is broke and they're gonna start cutting like AZ state did.. it's a shame that colleges go int'l to get their players when there are so many good talents around.. a top 100 ITF got spanked by my 14 year old.. the ITF player got a full ride to a D1 school site un-scene no try outs,the coach just went after an ITF rankings without seeing the player..

Sorry, not buying it. I know lots of D-1 coaches. They do not give away precious full men's tennis scholarships to players site unseen just based on rankings.

Division 1 college coaches HAVE to find the best players or they get fired.

 

[SoCal10s]

Sorry, not buying it. I know lots of D-1 coaches. They do not give away precious full men's tennis scholarships to players site unseen just based on rankings.

Division 1 college coaches HAVE to find the best players or they get fired.

woman in ohio

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

tennismom and the others......if a kid is in the USTA elite training program and gets full room and board and meals and $30000 worth of free coaching per year for say 4-5 years.

Then this USTA supported kid, after getting $200,000 worth of support, goes to college on a scholarship.

How then is a American $200,000 kid just fine but a foreign kid who got maybe $10,000-20,000 worth of support a "professional"?

So should every kid who gets any USTA support also be called a "professional" and not eligible for a scholarship in your eyes?

What if Oxford wants this USTA kid? SInce now he is foreign should he be barred from attending an international University?

 

[10schick]

the ITF player got a full ride to a D1 school site un-scene no try outs,the coach just went after an ITF rankings without seeing the player..

Curiously, what D1 school was that?

 

[ClarkC]

I have seen, in this thread and (mostly) in others, two allegations about the problem of having foreign recruits:

1. Foreign players get disproportionate scholarship dollars, perhaps because of greater financial need (tennis supposedly not being the rich country club families' domain in many countries that it is in the USA). So, if a roster has 5 domestic and 5 foreign recruits, then the money is actually likely to be more than 50% to the foreign recruits. Domestic parents like me don't like the idea of being told "We are interested in your boy, but he will get only a token amount of money" when it appears that more might be going to foreign players.

2. Foreign players are overrated relative to domestic recruits.

Something does not add up here. Let's combine these two allegations and look at two hypothetical tennis programs. Assume that they are in the same region and play each other every year, but their coaches have different recruiting philosophies.

Program A recruits domestic players who are primarily 4-star and 5-star level recruits.

Program B recruits foreign players who are supposed to be 4-star and 5-star level, but they are overrated and are really more like 3-star and 4-star domestic recruits.

The coach of Program B has a 4.5 scholarship limit, just like the coach of Program A. So he cannot be giving more per player than they give at Program A, unless it is always the rule that Program B barely has more than 6 players on the roster and Program A has a larger roster. Otherwise, the numbers will not add up.

Program A is going to whip Program B repeatedly over the years. The coach at Program B is going to see players that he did not recruit, because he thought they were not quite good enough for his program, beating the foreign players that he thought were better.

Do you suppose this will go on forever? Or will Coach B get a clue, and eventually his recruiting will change?

 

[SoCal10s]

^^^is this a universal country where foreigners can just come and get a free ride ? so there are no colleges in their country or what? are you saying that a non-resident should be able to just come and get freebies rather than supporting an Americans.. well I ain't buying that welfare system for tennis.. it's bad enough for USTA giving free rides to those select few and now American colleges should do the same for non-residents ,are we(USA) suppose to take care of the rest of the world when things here aren't looking so rosy..
at the end of the day I would rather see any American tennis player get a free ride than any foreigners ,even if that kid is my kid's worse tennis tournament head to head competitor .. I say love your own first,take care of our own first .. there's a big shopping list of American players for coaches to choose from.. why do we need to import..

 

[10schick]

^^^is this a universal country where foreigners can just come and get a free ride ? so there are no colleges in their country or what? are you saying that a non-resident should be able to just come and get freebies rather than supporting an Americans.. well I ain't buying that welfare system for tennis.. it's bad enough for USTA giving free rides to those select few and now American colleges should do the same for non-residents ,are we(USA) suppose to take care of the rest of the world when things here aren't looking so rosy..
at the end of the day I would rather see any American tennis player get a free ride than any foreigners ,even if that kid is my kid's worse tennis tournament head to head competitor .. I say love your own first,take care of our own first .. there's a big shopping list of American players for coaches to choose from.. why do we need to import..

Absolutely. I don't disagree with you. You don't see our American athletes shipping over to foreign countries for full rides, do you?

I'm just curious what D1 school took the athlete you were speaking of.

 

[tennismom42]

Sorry, not buying it. I know lots of D-1 coaches. They do not give away precious full men's tennis scholarships to players site unseen just based on rankings.

Division 1 college coaches HAVE to find the best players or they get fired.

Actually, I know lots of coaches who have recruited international players, sight unseen. As stated before, most programs do not have the funds to send a coach oversees to scout around (aka vacation on college funds). They relied on videos of those recruits playing against other international players. (no ITF vs. USTA comparison.)
On a very rare occassion, international players & parents come to US and go on a recruiting trip. Therein starts the "try-out" temptations.

Right now I am helping out a family from overseas, I set up the kid's profile on TRN, helped the kid search for proper colleges where he'd be happy, mapquested their trips, contacted coaches. All this in Spanish because I "hate international people so much." (sarcasm) BTW, he'll get 2x more academic scholarship than tennis scholarship. I only help out nice people, not brats.

Personally, I wish that the NCAA would get rid of the no try-outs rule. It's not enforceable and too many break the rule anyway.

 

[tennismom42]

im actually going to have to agree with tennismom, this is ridiculous. Its already tough to get a scholarship due to football and there being less scholarships then add in the amount of foreign recruits, and now this new rule? this is ridiculous im going to be a senior next year and im top 300 on the boys 18's nat. list. idk what to expect from colleges and im fairly worried. tennismom, my screen name is a hint to where i go.

Aren't you clever!. Say, you posted at 9:25am. Why weren't you in school or training? So will you be staying with us in June? (I only host nice kids, so continue keeping mum.)

 

[Dave Mc]

My son's college tennis coach once mentioned to me that he would much rather recruit american kids than foreign kids (assuming equal playing ability), simply because of the cost difference. I can't remember exactly, but I think he said something about having to pay extra fees or taxes, to either our government or perhaps it was to the foreign government. Anyone know more about what fees or taxes a college coach would have to pay for foreign recruits?

 

[T10s747]

Actually, I know lots of coaches who have recruited international players, sight unseen. As stated before, most programs do not have the funds to send a coach oversees to scout around (aka vacation on college funds). They relied on videos of those recruits playing against other international players. (no ITF vs. USTA comparison.)

I agree, these coaches get referrals from overseas and it's a hit or miss gamble to some degree. They certainly are not going to fly overseas to scout anybody. There are a number of foreignors on teams that are on the bench. The ITF is way overrated and like any other points based ranking system can be gamed with travel and money. Just look at the USTA system, lots of players have gamed the system to get to the top 20 but they are only as good as the guys who are 70-100 but didn't have the money to travel.

 

[tennismom42]

I agree, these coaches get referrals from overseas and it's a hit or miss gamble to some degree. They certainly are not going to fly overseas to scout anybody. There are a number of foreignors on teams that are on the bench. The ITF is way overrated and like any other points based ranking system can be gamed with travel and money. Just look at the USTA system, lots of players have gamed the system to get to the top 20 but they are only as good as the guys who are 70-100 but didn't have the money to travel.

I hate that the ITF is a "one and out" system. I understand why they do it, but I think the USTA system of 2-4 and your out, produces more head-to-head match comparisons and reliable statistics. (it takes a lot for me to say something nice about the USTA system, but I do like it better than ITF.)

 

[ClarkC]

My son's college tennis coach once mentioned to me that he would much rather recruit american kids than foreign kids (assuming equal playing ability), simply because of the cost difference. I can't remember exactly, but I think he said something about having to pay extra fees or taxes, to either our government or perhaps it was to the foreign government. Anyone know more about what fees or taxes a college coach would have to pay for foreign recruits?

I don't know about extra fees. Of course, foreign recruits are out of state tuition, but that does not affect the 4.5 scholarship limit. It affects the dollars in the budget, but not many coaches restrict themselves to in-state recruits.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I have seen, in this thread and (mostly) in others, two allegations about the problem of having foreign recruits:

1. Foreign players get disproportionate scholarship dollars, perhaps because of greater financial need (tennis supposedly not being the rich country club families' domain in many countries that it is in the USA). So, if a roster has 5 domestic and 5 foreign recruits, then the money is actually likely to be more than 50% to the foreign recruits. Domestic parents like me don't like the idea of being told "We are interested in your boy, but he will get only a token amount of money" when it appears that more might be going to foreign players.

2. Foreign players are overrated relative to domestic recruits.

Something does not add up here. Let's combine these two allegations and look at two hypothetical tennis programs. Assume that they are in the same region and play each other every year, but their coaches have different recruiting philosophies.

Program A recruits domestic players who are primarily 4-star and 5-star level recruits.

Program B recruits foreign players who are supposed to be 4-star and 5-star level, but they are overrated and are really more like 3-star and 4-star domestic recruits.

The coach of Program B has a 4.5 scholarship limit, just like the coach of Program A. So he cannot be giving more per player than they give at Program A, unless it is always the rule that Program B barely has more than 6 players on the roster and Program A has a larger roster. Otherwise, the numbers will not add up.

Program A is going to whip Program B repeatedly over the years. The coach at Program B is going to see players that he did not recruit, because he thought they were not quite good enough for his program, beating the foreign players that he thought were better.

Do you suppose this will go on forever? Or will Coach B get a clue, and eventually his recruiting will change?

Bingo Clark!

Common sense tells you that a college coach, knowing his fellow coaches are bias towards foreign players, would save tons of time and money and recruit all these American kids who are "spanking" the international players yet being passed over.

This smart college coach would build a huge winning program. Then his friend catches on and does the same thing. Then another, and another.

Before you know it these all American looked over kids programs are dominating college tennis!

 

[tenniscrazed]

Bingo Clark!

Common sense tells you that a college coach, knowing his fellow coaches are bias towards foreign players, would save tons of time and money and recruit all these American kids who are "spanking" the international players yet being passed over.

This smart college coach would build a huge winning program. Then his friend catches on and does the same thing. Then another, and another.

Before you know it these all American looked over kids programs are dominating college tennis!

For most American tennis players college tennis is and has been the goal. All their lives, "Work hard, get a scholarship, go to college". Once they're their finished career over. So once in college they've mentally reached their goals.

Foreign tennis players are an animal of a different breed. College is the piece of sh*.* place they end up at because they didn't make it as touring pros, or they ran out of money before they had a chance. They're goals are to be trained and to become a touring pro, U.S. university play is not really something that comes to mind until they get older and don't make the tour, or run out of money and can't travel. Becoming a pro at any time is the goal for them even after the playing here. (Somdev Devarrmen, Benjamin Becker come to mind).

It's all about attitude and goals.

 

[cmb]

For americans, college tennis is the only option financially for most kids. And since american kids are too lazy to head over to italy and grind on the clay to pay the bills, the only thing left is college.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

For americans, college tennis is the only option financially for most kids. And since american kids are too lazy to head over to italy and grind on the clay to pay the bills, the only thing left is college.

Unfortunately they are even too lazy to play on it here. We moved to the west coast of FL. several months ago and have been playing only on clay. Amazing how much of a workout it is on the legs and how much balance it takes and how much you have to adjust to various bounces and construct your points.

But many of the clay courts go empty every day, while the hard courts have a waiting time. My daughter and I have never waited for a clay court to open up any time of day or night.

 

[ClarkC]

For most American tennis players college tennis is and has been the goal. All their lives, "Work hard, get a scholarship, go to college". Once they're their finished career over. So once in college they've mentally reached their goals.

Foreign tennis players are an animal of a different breed. College is the piece of sh*.* place they end up at because they didn't make it as touring pros, or they ran out of money before they had a chance. They're goals are to be trained and to become a touring pro, U.S. university play is not really something that comes to mind until they get older and don't make the tour, or run out of money and can't travel. Becoming a pro at any time is the goal for them even after the playing here. (Somdev Devarrmen, Benjamin Becker come to mind).

It's all about attitude and goals.

This is the opposite of my experience talking to the foreign recruits at Virginia, including Somdev Devvarman, who stayed here four years to finish his degree even though he was ranked in the 600s in the ATP from playing a few Futures events before he ever got here as a freshman.

The foreign players I have talked to want to play pro, but they are realistic. After spending their last 1-2 years of high school/academy playing ITF juniors and Futures, they realized they could not make a living immediately at tennis. College is not just a way to improve their games and get a second shot at the pros. It is an important part of their future plans because making a living at tennis is looking like a long shot by the time they commit to an American college.

How much time have you spent talking to Benjamin Becker and Somdev Devvarman so that you know what they were thinking?

 

[tennismom42]

This is the opposite of my experience talking to the foreign recruits at Virginia, including Somdev Devvarman, who stayed here four years to finish his degree even though he was ranked in the 600s in the ATP from playing a few Futures events before he ever got here as a freshman.

The foreign players I have talked to want to play pro, but they are realistic. After spending their last 1-2 years of high school/academy playing ITF juniors and Futures, they realized they could not make a living immediately at tennis. College is not just a way to improve their games and get a second shot at the pros. It is an important part of their future plans because making a living at tennis is looking like a long shot by the time they commit to an American college.

How much time have you spent talking to Benjamin Becker and Somdev Devvarman so that you know what they were thinking?

This different article, by Marc Lucero, kind of address some things you mention. Marc kind of tortures the reader with too much statistics in this article:
All-Americans vs. Futures http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=866
Cite: All-Americans vs. Futures
by Marc Lucero, 30 October 2009 from www.tennisrecruiting.net

 

[Dave Mc]

Anyone know more about what fees or taxes a college coach would have to pay for foreign recruits?

The more I think about it, I believe he was talking about having to sponsor the student visa immigration costs for the foreign players.

 

[Dream_On]

^^^is this a universal country where foreigners can just come and get a free ride ? so there are no colleges in their country or what? are you saying that a non-resident should be able to just come and get freebies rather than supporting an Americans.. well I ain't buying that welfare system for tennis.. it's bad enough for USTA giving free rides to those select few and now American colleges should do the same for non-residents ,are we(USA) suppose to take care of the rest of the world when things here aren't looking so rosy..
at the end of the day I would rather see any American tennis player get a free ride than any foreigners ,even if that kid is my kid's worse tennis tournament head to head competitor .. I say love your own first,take care of our own first .. there's a big shopping list of American players for coaches to choose from.. why do we need to import..

There are university's in other countries of course, however none have athletic teams at the same level as the USA college system does.

Thats why

 

[cmb]

This different article, by Marc Lucero, kind of address some things you mention. Marc kind of tortures the reader with too much statistics in this article:
All-Americans vs. Futures http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=866
Cite: All-Americans vs. Futures
by Marc Lucero, 30 October 2009 from www.tennisrecruiting.net

Very good article, and it proves that the highest level of college tennis is similar to the lower level pro tour.

In my opinion though, college tennis is not always right for the individual player. Look at chase Buchanan, has he progressed at OSU? IMO no, would he have progressed on the tour? we don't know. He did progress to the 700s at a young age by being out on the tour.

In my personal college experience I did not progress. It was not a problem of the matches or the level of the team in which I had to practice. The problem was that I could not do what I needed to do to improve my game. You have around 3 hours of team practice, in which coaches did drills/point play drills, and always mix in some doubles. In the end, after breaks and coaches talking, I felt like I had practiced around an hour of useful practice. The other 2 hours were wasted on drills that did not maximize my strengths and gave me confidence to win, and also another 45 minutes wasted on doubles practice.

I played 3 semesters at a well known D1 school that was ranked in the top 10, and I played in the lineup too. When I looked back now I wished I would have played at a lower level D1 school where I played number 1, and i could do whatever I wanted...do my own practices, and not waste time.

This is why people opt to go pro is they have the choice, and going pro is best way to improve your game, because when you are pro...everything is about you, sacrificing your improvement to help the team practice is not that way to do it.

 

[notennis]

no scholarships

Why don't you find another sport and quit complainjing about what the foreigners get compared to the U.S. If your child can't compete than why complain. Try investing more money and maybe it will all work out in the long run. Unfortunately not everyone gets what they want.

Good luck!

 

[chalkflewup]

Perhaps because some people in this country believe for fighting for what is right.

Throwing more money at isn't always the answer. Bad advice.

 

[cmb]

The reason people complain so much about foreign players is because the perception here in the states is that they don't pay a dime to develop their game.
Which is not true at all. All of the kids that took a year or 2 of USTA money and training are playing college now with no problems. If the parents spent as much energy trying to get the USTA to change the system here instead of complaining about foreigners they might be able to change something.

 

[coloskier]

Well, I disagree. I think most coaches do erroneously assume that international players are better than domestic players. Where is the statistical data to prove this? There is no comparing the top 10% of the foreign recruits to the top 10% of the domestic recruits. Someone please tell me how a coach can compare ITF rankings to USTA rankings? I don't think so. It's nothing but speculation. So then what? videos, personal viewings, the ever elusive try-outs that coaches are NOT allowed to do? (but they do it anyway)?

Sure there is some merit to each of these methods for considering a recruit, but I don't believe any of them are hard & fast truism. Assuming foreign talent is better talent is discrimination and presumptuous. It's like saying, "oh, I am going to vote for an african american because he's african american. or I am going to hire this person because his left ear hangs lower than his right ear.

It takes a lot more than presumption and discrimination to evaluate & compare one recruit to another.

A lot of the top 1-5 18 players in the US hardly play any USTA tournaments, except Sectionals and Nationals, so they can get a freebee for USO if they win. Most of them are playing nothing but ITF's, Orange Bowl, Eddie Herr, etc. Especially on the girls side. And this does involve traveling to other countries to get ITF points. It is a lot easier to get ITF points overseas than it is in the USA. The one problem I have with ITF's is no back draw. Also a lot of subjective draws not necessarily based on ranking points.

 

[cmb]

what do u mean subjective draws not based on ranking points? The points determine who gets in the draw, and then after that its a random draw after the seeds are put in place.

Picking up points in europe is definetly the same level as in the states though. Other craphole places are easier.

 

[TennisFan2Day]

Think about one thing, these schools were built up with money from here.

Look at every school that has a decent tennis program, then look to see how their football program is. They pretty much go hand in hand.

Do you think Oklahoma got a state of the art tennis facility because they pack the stands at tennis matches? Not a chance. The same goes for Ohio State, USC, Florida and the list goes on and on.

I don't have a problem when a school has one maybe even two players but when a school like the Univ of Mississippi's entire roster is foreign other than Devin Britton then that is a problem.

 

[SoCal10s]

Think about one thing, these schools were built up with money from here.
I don't have a problem when a school has one maybe even two players but when a school like the Univ of Mississippi's entire roster is foreign other than Devin Britton then that is a problem.

I couldn't agree with you more.. schools need a "foreigner quota" sort speaking 2 per team seems like a good number ..

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Think about one thing, these schools were built up with money from here.

Look at every school that has a decent tennis program, then look to see how their football program is. They pretty much go hand in hand.

Do you think Oklahoma got a state of the art tennis facility because they pack the stands at tennis matches? Not a chance. The same goes for Ohio State, USC, Florida and the list goes on and on.

I don't have a problem when a school has one maybe even two players but when a school like the Univ of Mississippi's entire roster is foreign other than Devin Britton then that is a problem.

Nope, that is not the way Universities work. They entire University is a complex mix. At those schools you mentioned some departments like Physics may have their top people from other countries. They make that department world class and bring students from all over to the school who pay tuition.

So the tennis team finds its best players overseas? So what? If the rest of the world starts playing football at a high level and Ohio State's football team is 1/3rd foreign some day, people will still go and the program will still make money.

You can not pick and choose parts of a school to have quotas for foreigners. You want a world class Chemistry program, you go find the best professors and students from any country. Same for tennis.

It cracks me up that white guys find it so offensive that the more talented foreign players make up tennis teams....yet they are also mad about affirmative action.

They want quotas for the white guys to be on the tennis team....but they don't want quotas for the minority kids to get into schools.

Grow up, life aint fair, deal with it.

 

[momtogrif]

Nope, that is not the way Universities work. They entire University is a complex mix. At those schools you mentioned some departments like Physics may have their top people from other countries. They make that department world class and bring students from all over to the school who pay tuition.

So the tennis team finds its best players overseas? So what? If the rest of the world starts playing football at a high level and Ohio State's football team is 1/3rd foreign some day, people will still go and the program will still make money.

You can not pick and choose parts of a school to have quotas for foreigners. You want a world class Chemistry program, you go find the best professors and students from any country. Same for tennis.

It cracks me up that white guys find it so offensive that the more talented foreign players make up tennis teams....yet they are also mad about affirmative action.

They want quotas for the white guys to be on the tennis team....but they don't want quotas for the minority kids to get into schools.

Grow up, life aint fair, deal with it.

You are so right and I love your candor here! My other question here is: why can't American kids go to school overseas, too? I'm sure there are opportunities for students to go to school elsewhere. I think my fellow Americans are very narrow minded and don't like to think outside the box. I also think we have a mentality that says 'I deserve this because I'm an American' and because they believe they are entitled to it. It's unfortunate, but I know that's how I was raised and it took a bit of being knocked around in college and in my 20's to learn that life isn't fair!

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

You are so right and I love your candor here! My other question here is: why can't American kids go to school overseas, too? I'm sure there are opportunities for students to go to school elsewhere. I think my fellow Americans are very narrow minded and don't like to think outside the box. I also think we have a mentality that says 'I deserve this because I'm an American' and because they believe they are entitled to it. It's unfortunate, but I know that's how I was raised and it took a bit of being knocked around in college and in my 20's to learn that life isn't fair!

Exactly. I think a few million people in Haiti could give testimony about how fair life is.

On the list of the 10 million injustices in the world, the fact that American middle class and upper middle class kids have to be better at tennis than a foreign kid is pretty far down the list.

The fact is these foreign kids do not have any advantages. They just work harder at tennis. They hit against a wall for 2 hours after regular practice is over instead of texting their friends all night.

By the way tennis is pretty fair....the best players get the scholarships, the best players make the money.

Thats why a poor Russian girl can get rich playing tennis, just like a lily white suburban kid like Roddick can.