All the hype - At the end of the day Federer & Nadal still No.1 & 2

GasquetGOAT

GasquetGOAT

Hall of Fame
17 AUGUST 2009

1 Federer (SUI) 7 640 (ATP_rk : 1)
2 Nadal (ESP) 7 065 (ATP_rk : 3)
3 Murray (GBR) 5 500 (ATP_rk : 2)
4 Roddick (USA) 4 300 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 5)
5 Djokovic (SRB) 4 240 (ATP_rk : 4)
6 Del Potro (ARG) 3 805 (ATP_rk : 6)
7 Verdasco (ESP) 2 395 (ATP_rk : 10)
8 F Gonzalez (CHI) 2 185 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 12)
9 Söderling (SWE) 2 110 (ATP_rk : 11)
10 Davydenko (RUS) 1 975 (ATP_rk : 8)
11 Tsonga (FRA) 1 900 (+ 4) (ATP_rk : 7)
12 Robredo (ESP) 1 715 (ATP_rk : 16)
13 Haas (GER) 1 680 (ATP_rk : 21)
14 Ferrer (ESP) 1 600 (ATP_rk : 19)
 
GasquetGOAT said:
17 AUGUST 2009

1 Federer (SUI) 7 640 (ATP_rk : 1)
2 Nadal (ESP) 7 065 (ATP_rk : 3)
3 Murray (GBR) 5 500 (ATP_rk : 2)
4 Roddick (USA) 4 300 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 5)
5 Djokovic (SRB) 4 240 (ATP_rk : 4)
6 Del Potro (ARG) 3 805 (ATP_rk : 6)
7 Verdasco (ESP) 2 395 (ATP_rk : 10)
8 F Gonzalez (CHI) 2 185 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 12)
9 Söderling (SWE) 2 110 (ATP_rk : 11)
10 Davydenko (RUS) 1 975 (ATP_rk : 8)
11 Tsonga (FRA) 1 900 (+ 4) (ATP_rk : 7)
12 Robredo (ESP) 1 715 (ATP_rk : 16)
13 Haas (GER) 1 680 (ATP_rk : 21)
14 Ferrer (ESP) 1 600 (ATP_rk : 19)
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I guess somebody thinks their opinion is worth more than a computer formula.....sounds like sour grapes to me, his favorite player must be on the skids or lost in the quarters last week!
 
GasquetGOAT said:
17 AUGUST 2009

1 Federer (SUI) 7 640 (ATP_rk : 1)
2 Nadal (ESP) 7 065 (ATP_rk : 3)
3 Murray (GBR) 5 500 (ATP_rk : 2)
4 Roddick (USA) 4 300 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 5)
5 Djokovic (SRB) 4 240 (ATP_rk : 4)
6 Del Potro (ARG) 3 805 (ATP_rk : 6)
7 Verdasco (ESP) 2 395 (ATP_rk : 10)
8 F Gonzalez (CHI) 2 185 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 12)
9 Söderling (SWE) 2 110 (ATP_rk : 11)
10 Davydenko (RUS) 1 975 (ATP_rk : 8)
11 Tsonga (FRA) 1 900 (+ 4) (ATP_rk : 7)
12 Robredo (ESP) 1 715 (ATP_rk : 16)
13 Haas (GER) 1 680 (ATP_rk : 21)
14 Ferrer (ESP) 1 600 (ATP_rk : 19)
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Are those the ATP Race points so far? If so thanks.
 
sanchino said:
I guess somebody thinks their opinion is worth more than a computer formula.....sounds like sour grapes to me, his favorite player must be on the skids or lost in the quarters last week!
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Its ok kid. Let me educate you. This is called the Race rankings, although Atp does not use it anymore, it still exists and a lot of people apparently are still interested in it. These are not my opinions nor anyone elses. There are hard earned ranking points accumulated since the begining of the year. kapish?
 
Looking at those points I still think Murray might finish the year higher than #3. I expect him to have better results the rest of the year than Federer or Nadal, except for possibly Federer at the U.S Open and year end Masters. I am a big Nadal fan and dont like Federer, but I expect Federer to stay on top and Nadal to maybe slip behind Murray by years end and thus Murray stay #2.

If Djokovic doesnt pick up his play bigtime he will end the year behind Del Potro and Roddick it looks like.
 
The rankings don't like -they're based on performace- not popularity (like NCAA football/ basketball). Murray has worked hard to get where he's at Nadal has been out of action so he's where he probably should be and if his knee continues to act up he'll probably continue to drop.
 
With two slams, it's surprising Federer's lead isn't bigger. I guess it's the Masters results that are preventing the lead from being bigger.
 
grafselesfan said:
Looking at those points I still think Murray might finish the year higher than #3. I expect him to have better results the rest of the year than Federer or Nadal, except for possibly Federer at the U.S Open and year end Masters. I am a big Nadal fan and dont like Federer, but I expect Federer to stay on top and Nadal to maybe slip behind Murray by years end and thus Murray stay #2.

If Djokovic doesnt pick up his play bigtime he will end the year behind Del Potro and Roddick it looks like.
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I agree with USO, Cincy right around the corner and then the YEC, I coould see Murray right up there.

Will Fed stay on top on the points ranking? Doubtful unless he picks it up at non slam events. I dont think he geared for Number 1. It just happened when he won RG and Wimby and Nadal went down. Will he put in the necessary measures to pick it up for every tournament? I doubt that. Sadly, I dont see Nadal do a whole too heck of alot the rest of the season due to his knee problems.


Djoker may just fall wayside if he keeps this up
 
GameSampras said:
I agree with USO, Cincy right around the corner and then the YEC, I coould see Murray right up there.

Will Fed stay on top on the points ranking? Doubtful unless he picks it up at non slam events. I dont think he geared for Number 1. It just happened when he won RG and Wimby and Nadal went down. Will he put in the necessary measures to pick it up for every tournament? I doubt that. Sadly, I dont see Nadal do a whole too heck of alot the rest of the season due to his knee problems
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Even if Federer doesnt step it up at the non slam events I dont see Murray making up over 2000 points on him. Federer will probably step it up at the U.S Open when it really matters, and if the #1 ranking is on the line the year end Masters too. I agree with your accessment on Nadal sadly. I do expect Nadal to be back at his best for early next year, but the layoff at the time he is entering his least prefered surfaces I am kind of seeing modest results the rest of the year. Would be happy if he proved me wrong. That is why I see Federer ending the year #1, I doubt he has to perform well in all the non slam events to stay there. I think the biggest question will be between Nadal and Murray or #2, and the battle for the 4-6 spots.
 
GasquetGOAT said:
17 AUGUST 2009

1 Federer (SUI) 7 640 (ATP_rk : 1)
2 Nadal (ESP) 7 065 (ATP_rk : 3)
3 Murray (GBR) 5 500 (ATP_rk : 2)
4 Roddick (USA) 4 300 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 5)
5 Djokovic (SRB) 4 240 (ATP_rk : 4)
6 Del Potro (ARG) 3 805 (ATP_rk : 6)
7 Verdasco (ESP) 2 395 (ATP_rk : 10)
8 F Gonzalez (CHI) 2 185 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 12)
9 Söderling (SWE) 2 110 (ATP_rk : 11)
10 Davydenko (RUS) 1 975 (ATP_rk : 8)
11 Tsonga (FRA) 1 900 (+ 4) (ATP_rk : 7)
12 Robredo (ESP) 1 715 (ATP_rk : 16)
13 Haas (GER) 1 680 (ATP_rk : 21)
14 Ferrer (ESP) 1 600 (ATP_rk : 19)
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff. So Murray needs to outperform Rafa by about 1600 points between now and season end if he wants to hang on to 2. That's a tall order.
 
Sorry dude, but nothing is more definitive than the rankings. If you suck, you're low in the rankings, if you're good, you're high in the rankings. Easy as that
 
フェデラー said:
How many points does he have to defend for the rest of the year? 1000 Cinci + US Open Finalist so he has lot of work to do.
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Cinci points are already off, but points to defend is a bit of an irrelevance from a year end perspective - the points they finish the year with will be the totals above plus points won between now and the end ofthe year.

Think of it like a points race where Murray starts on 0 and Rafa on 1565. Murray has to close that 1565 point gap between now and year end to keep number 2 i.e. whatever points Rafa wins between now and year end, Murray needs to earn 1570 points more if he wants to be number 2 come December.

Hope that makes sense.
 
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jamesblakefan#1 said:
Just like how a certain someone's GOAT claim got thrown out after he got beaten by Agassi at the AO, and destroyed by Safin and Hewitt at the USO?

No, of course not.
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Did Agassi beat Sampras in every slam final? No. Hewitt and Safin beat Pete late in his career and Pete got Safin back a year later destroying him at the 01 USO.
 
Getting owned by your main rival on every surface eliminates you from any GOAT consideration. End of story. No GOAT candidate has ever endured that.
 
flying24 said:
The point isnt clay, the point is Federer has lost to Nadal in the Australian Open and Wimbledon finals too. If he loses the U.S Open final he will have lost a big final to Rafa on every surface.
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He still leads their off-clay record BTW. And anyone would know the record is skewed. Federer is penalized for performing well at clay tournys only to be thrashed by Nadal, but Nadal doesn't earn any flak for performing poorly on the hard courts during fed's prime.
 
Cesc Fabregas said:
If Nadal beats Federer at the USO then Federer's GOAT claim gets thrown out of the window.
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More wishful thinking from Sampras fanboys.

The fact is that a substantial majority of both tennis analysts and the general public considers Federer to be the best player since at least Rod Laver. In the real world - as opposed to the fevered imaginations of Sampras fans expressed on this board - there is very little support for Sampras' GOAT claims. With 11 majors in 4 years, a career Slam, 16 out of 17 final appearances in majors, 21 consecutive semi final appearances in majors and 15 majors overall to date, Federer has already achieved far more than Sampras ever did. Nothing that happens in his career from now on is going to change that, or make people believe that Sampras was a better player than Federer is.

Dream on.
 
flyinghippos101 said:
He still leads their off-clay record BTW. And anyone would know the record is skewed. Federer is penalized for performing well at clay tournys only to be thrashed by Nadal, but Nadal doesn't earn any flak for performing poorly on the hard courts during fed's prime.
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Whatever. Let me put it simple for you *******. Federer has failed time and time again to beat Nadal in a big match on clay. Federer has tried and suceeded in fewer attempts to beat Nadal in both a grass court slam and even a hard court slam (in his first ever attempt, LOL). If Federer complete his career slam of losses to Nadal in slams at the U.S Open while not beating him anywhere except Wimbledon he clearly isnt GOAT worthy.
 
grafselesfan said:
Getting owned by your main rival on every surface eliminates you from any GOAT consideration. End of story. No GOAT candidate has ever endured that.
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While I can agree with that I also think that if you're a non-factor on one of the major surfaces in tennis throghout your whole career it eliminates you from GOAT consideration as well.To be the GOAT you have to prove you can adapt your game to all surfaces and fight through/grind out matches even when the effectiveness of your main weapons are diminished.

However all this is very premature.I know Sampras fans get a rise even at the thought of Nadal beating Fed at USO but the fact is neither Fed or Nadal are a lock to reach the USO final this year.Nadal has only reached USO semis once and Fed escaped a few very close matches at slams in early rounds recently(Berdych AO,Haas FO,Andreev USO,Tipsarevic AO etc.),maybe one of these days he'll finally lose one of those kind of earlier round slam matches.
 
zagor said:
While I can agree with that I also think that if you're a non-factor on one of the major surfaces in tennis throghout your whole career it eliminates you from GOAT consideration as well.To be the GOAT you have to prove you can adapt your game to all surfaces and fight through/grind out matches even when the effectiveness of your main weapons are diminished.

However all this is very premature.I know Sampras fans get a rise even at the thought of Nadal beating Fed at USO but the fact is neither Fed or Nadal are a lock to reach the USO final this year.Nadal has only reached USO semis once and Fed escaped a few very close matches at slams in early rounds recently(Berdych AO,Haas FO,Andreev USO,Tipsarevic AO etc.),maybe one of these days he'll finally lose one of those kind of earlier round slam matches.
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I agree Nadal probably wont be in the U.S Open final this year. I actually think he will probably go out around the quarters, even though is my current favorite player. However if he does beat Federer in the U.S Open it kills any Federer GOAT arguments for good to any rational minded person as Cesc rightly pointed out.

Sampras was not a total non factor on clay. He reached the semis or quarters of 4 French Opens in 4 years, beating Muster, Bruguera, and Courier along the way and losing only to Agassi, Muster, Bruguera, and Kafelnikov when gassed out in those rounds. He single handedly won the Davis Cup title for the U.S on clay by defeating clay court specialist Chesnokov and trouncing next years French Open Champion Kafelnikov, and being part of the winning doubles tandem too. He won Rome, an event Roger who his fans try to argue as an all time great clay courter never won.
 
He won Rome, an event Roger who his fans try to argue as an all time great clay courter never won.

Federer won Roland Garros, and made 4 finals, while Pete never made one. I'm sure Rog is ok w/o a Rome title while he's polishing the Coupe de Mousketere.
 
grafselesfan said:
That is the best you can do. Obviously you cant counter my arguments with anything of substance so that pretty much says it all. You know I am like whether you *******s like to hear it or not.
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Nope, I just don't see why I should continue this if you attempt to devolve the debate into a "Who can scream the loudest competition". Once intellectual debate is gone, then there's no point to continue
 
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jamesblakefan#1 said:
He won Rome, an event Roger who his fans try to argue as an all time great clay courter never won.

Federer won Roland Garros, and made 4 finals, while Pete never made one. I'm sure Rog is ok w/o a Rome title while he's polishing the Coupe de Mousketere.
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Rome is a very big and historic title but don't let that get in your way.
 
grafselesfan said:
I agree Nadal probably wont be in the U.S Open final this year. I actually think he will probably go out around the quarters, even though is my current favorite player.
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I think Nadal will go out in SF,same as last year.

grafselesfan said:
However if he does beat Federer in the U.S Open it kills any Federer GOAT arguments for good to any rational minded person as Cesc rightly pointed out.
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Maybe,I wouldn't think he's GOAT but I don't think he's GOAT now either.Doesn't have to be for him to be my favourite player.

grafselesfan said:
Sampras was not a total non factor on clay. He reached the semis or quarters of 4 French Opens in 4 years, beating Muster, Bruguera, and Courier along the way and losing only to Agassi, Muster, Bruguera, and Kafelnikov when gassed out in those rounds. He single handedly won the Davis Cup title for the U.S on clay by defeating clay court specialist Chesnokov and trouncing next years French Open Champion Kafelnikov, and being part of the winning doubles tandem too. He won Rome, an event Roger who his fans try to argue as an all time great clay courter never won.
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He never reached a single FO final in his whole career,as far as I'm concerned for GOAT standards yes that is a non factor.None of the other GOAT candidates were as unable to adapt and perform at their worst slam as Sampras did.I also don't care who he lost to at the FO,Fed got stopped by the best claycourter since Borg 4 years in a row however I never used that excuse for him so neither will I accept excuses for Sampras.For me he never proved he was a factor at the FO all things considered.

Winning DC is nice but masters titles I don't care about when we're discussing GOAT contenders.
 
Cesc Fabregas said:
If Nadal beats Federer at the USO then Federer's GOAT claim gets thrown out of the window.
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I don’t think TMF is as hungry as the other player. He has accomplished so much already. If he wins the USO, it will be just a bonus for him this year.

In fact, he doesn’t have to win anymore, he mission is completed.
 
I never said Sampras was better or more accomplished than Federer on clay. I was just pointing out saying he is irrelevant or a non factor or even sucked (as many Sampras haters like to imply) is ridiculous. Of course the French Open is bigger than Rome, but Rome is still the 2nd biggest event on clay probably (Monte Carlo is close with it) and that Sampras has won that, an event Federer who his fanboys like to argue as an all time great clay courter never won, is an indication that he was a very good, albeit not great clay courter. Sampras has also beaten Bruguera and Courier at the French when both were really good, who has Federer beaten at the French. No Sampras isnt better than Federer on clay, but he is still a very good clay courter, and he doesnt need to be better than Federer on clay since Federer himself is no legend on clay, and Sampras is better on every other surface. If you were comparing Sampras to Borg you would atleast have more of a case pumping up the clay court prowess between them, but with Federer it is kind of comical.
 
Cesc Fabregas said:
Of course its not bigger than RG! You made Rome sound like some rinky dink tournament whens its historically a big event.
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But you guys pick and choose. Mentioning Pete's win at Rome as an all time great achievement, yet ignoring Roger's 4 Hamburg titles, 2 Rome finals, 3 Monte Carlo Finals, 4 FO finals, and oh yeah, that RG title.

To attempt to devalue Roger b/c he hasn't won Rome, is sort of insignificant when Pete failed to win RG or even reach a final.
 
TMF said:
I don’t think TMF is as hungry as the other player. He has accomplished so much already. If he wins the USO, it will be just a bonus for him this year.

In fact, he doesn’t have to win anymore, he mission is completed.
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I dont know really.. If Nadal comes back to top form, then that mission is still there for Fed IMO.. To prove he can finally beat Nadal at some slams. Losing 3 out of 4 slams in row to your rivalry is never good. I think Fed does have some proving to do IF Nadal comes back to his prior form and level that is.

Im sure Fed is happy with the career slam and 15 but he doesnt want the h2h with Nadal hanging over his head either..

Again this is all under the speculation that Nadal indeed comes back healthy. And if he beats Fed at the USO, then the speculation of whether Fed is truly the GOAT will return. So now Fed will have to hang on and get Nadal back to prove it.


A davis cup and another year or two at number 1 wouldnt hurt either.
 
grafselesfan said:
I never said Sampras was better or more accomplished than Federer on clay. I was just pointing out saying he is irrelevant or a non factor or even sucked (as many Sampras haters like to imply) is ridiculous. Of course the French Open is bigger than Rome, but Rome is still the 2nd biggest event on clay probably (Monte Carlo is close with it) and that Sampras has won that, an event Federer who his fanboys like to argue as an all time great clay courter never won, is an indication that he was a very good, albeit not great clay courter.
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Never hated Sampras,just don't consider him to be the GOAT mainly because of his showings at the FO(poor for GOAT standards),there's a difference.The only players I've ever hated(although dislike is a better word)were Rusedski and Rios.I also don't consider Fed to be an all-time great claycourter,however I do feel he show his adaptability as a player by reaching 4 FO finals in a row and ultimately winning the title.
 
jamesblakefan#1 said:
But you guys pick and choose. Mentioning Pete's win at Rome as an all time great achievement, yet ignoring Roger's 4 Hamburg titles, 2 Rome finals, 3 Monte Carlo Finals, 4 FO finals, and oh yeah, that RG title.

To attempt to devalue Roger b/c he hasn't won Rome, is sort of insignificant when Pete failed to win RG or even reach a final.
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Rome and Monte Carlo are big events and its a big hole on Federer's resume that he hasn't won them like Pete never reaching a RG final is a hole on his resume.
 
GameSampras said:
I dont know really.. If Nadal comes back to top form, then that mission is still there for Fed IMO.. To prove he can finally beat Nadal at some slams. Losing 3 out of 4 slams in row to your rivalry is never good. I think Fed does have some proving to do IF Nadal comes back to his prior form and level that is.

Im sure Fed is happy with the career slam and 15 but he doesnt want the h2h with Nadal hanging over his head either..

Again this is all under the speculation that Nadal indeed comes back healthy. And if he beats Fed at the USO, then the speculation of whether Fed is truly the GOAT will return. So now Fed will have to hang on and get Nadal back to prove it.


A davis cup and another year or two at number 1 wouldnt hurt either.
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Totally agree on all of that. Federer still has things he needs to prove, and I am sure he knows that too and will be motivated to try and do so. Beating Nadal in a big match, improving his head to head with Nadal is a must for him, like you said he doesnt want that hanging over him. Plus Davis Cup, and Olympic medal in singles, he is still far short of Sampras in weeks and years at #1. He still has alot more to strive for and be motivated by, most of all his record vs Nadal, and if he doesnt improve that it will be an albatross of his career.
 
jamesblakefan#1 said:
But you guys pick and choose. Mentioning Pete's win at Rome as an all time great achievement, yet ignoring Roger's 4 Hamburg titles, 2 Rome finals, 3 Monte Carlo Finals, 4 FO finals, and oh yeah, that RG title.

To attempt to devalue Roger b/c he hasn't won Rome, is sort of insignificant when Pete failed to win RG or even reach a final.
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I think he is just trying to defend Pete in this case.. As not being as pathetic on clay as many of you make him out to be. Pete DOES have some big wins on clay most noteably the Davis Cup and Rome, along with some deep runs at the French usually losing out to the eventual champion in the early mid 90s.

Thats not exactly mediocrity.. Hell pete has some accomplishments on clay that most wont accomplish today
 
zagor said:
Never hated Sampras,just don't consider him to be the GOAT mainly because of his showings at the FO(poor for GOAT standards),there's a difference.The only players I've ever hated(although dislike is a better word)were Rusedski and Rios.I also don't consider Fed to be an all-time great claycourter,however I do feel he show his adaptability as a player by reaching 4 FO finals in a row and ultimately winning the title.
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I never meant you hated Sampras. While I dont always agree with you I find you a fair and reasonable poster. I meant many of the posters here.
 
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