Almost 700 entries for a Pickleball tournament

Crocodile

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Hello everybody. Well today April 19th I decided to get out from the man cave and have a look at a Pickleball Tournament in Western Sydney. The tournament runs for 3 days finishing on Sunday 22nd. It was the first time I have seen an event live and I also had a look at their website which I thought was very well designed and professional with good sponsorship and partners . Looking at the draw and results I recognised quite a few former tennis players there, some names which disappeared from tennis a while ago, but last I checked, there were almost 700 entries, which is pretty big right.
While I haven’t yet played PB, and therefore shouldn’t judge, I just found the whole thing a bit strange with those little paddles and hard giant practice golf balls. Tennis looks more elegant to me, just an opinion. The vibe of the people however seemed very friendly, warm and social compared to a tennis tournament with no outbursts or arguments that you sometimes see at a tennis event.
Needless to say and irrespective of my views, 700 entries, many of who are over 19 years of age for a 3 day event is making a statement.
In the next few days I will have a look at a tennis tournament as well and gather my thoughts.
To be honest, up until now, in my area we never saw a lot of PB but noticed that the local tennis shops are now stocking both PB and Padel equipment.
I know that there have been many discussions before about this but I thought I would post from here as to what I saw and how things are changing. Apparently Queensland has the most PB players, facilities and events, followed by NSW and then Victoria,
What do you people make of it !
 
LuckyR said:
If it didn't reduce the number of tennis courts I wouldn't personally care. Folks who live within earshot of the din have an understandable loathing for it.
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This. Great to see people out and being active though.
 
As a noun, "din" means a loud, unpleasant, confused noise that lasts for a long time.
Synonyms of "din" include "noise", "row", "racket", and "crash".

In the UK, "din-dins" is slang for "dinner".

Considering pickeling to be an "activity" is quite the stretch.
But good luck to our favourite Bart in the massive Sydney Pickel tournament!
 
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At this tournament they converted all the tennis courts and indoor basketball courts to cater for the tournament.
 
It’s actually a new sporting precinct and consists of 16 plexi cushion tennis courts but they made some construction geo tech mistakes so soon after completion the courts started developing cracks. I don’t know where all this will end up,
 
While I haven’t done the research my own interpretation is that the rising costs of real estate purchases, real estate rent and the cost of living in large expensive cities is hurting tennis and helping sports like soccer, futsal, PB, Netball and any activity where you can squeeze more people into a smaller area.
So here, the average day hire casual booking of a tennis court in Sydney, Melbourne and SE QLD is around $20 an hour. You can fit 4 PB courts in one tennis court, so there’s $80 you earn off one court, and you earn even more if you convert a tennis court to a 5 or 7- A -side soccer or futsal field.
There was a lot less pressure on facility management back in the 80’s and even the 90’s when leases were almost nothing. Now councils want a lot more and big cashed up tennis companies have moved in and snapped up all the courts. Insurances have gone up so the days of the backyard tennis court used for commercial purposes is almost fully gone: Some places in Sydney are charging $130 an hour for a private lesson or $1100 for 10 lessons and I think many families are looking at this and saying No.
To many the answer would be to build more tennis courts and support and encourage more affordable regional living, but when countries sign up for net zero then they don’t want to build anymore, so scarcity causes high demand and prices.
 
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The simple reason for pickleball's growth is that people with deep pockets are promoting an emergent business and are using money and marketing to do so.

Crocodile said:
While I haven’t done the research my own interpretation is that the rising costs of real estate purchases, real estate rent and the cost of living in large expensive cities is hurting tennis and helping sports like soccer, futsal, PB, Netball and any activity where you can squeeze more people into a smaller area.
So here, the average day hire casual booking of a tennis court in Sydney, Melbourne and SE QLD is around $20 an hour. You can fit 4 PB courts in one tennis court, so there’s $80 you earn off one court, and you earn even more if you convert a tennis court to a 5 or 7- A -side soccer or futsal field.
There was a lot less pressure on facility management back in the 80’s and even the 90’s when leases were almost nothing. Now councils want a lot more and big cashed up tennis companies have moved in and snapped up all the courts. Insurances have gone up so the days of the backyard tennis court used for commercial purposes is almost fully gone: Some places in Sydney are charging $130 an hour for a private lesson or $1100 for 10 lessons and I think many families are looking at this and saying No.
To many the answer would be to build more tennis courts and support and encourage more affordable regional living, but when countries sign up for net zero then they don’t want to build anymore, so scarcity causes high demand and prices.
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Bartelby said:
The simple reason for pickleball's growth is that people with deep pockets are promoting an emergent business and are using money and marketing to do so.
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Would you say that their is good money to be made in emergent businesses and established products like tennis is done, or that the opportunity to make money in tennis is slimmer due to too many competitors?
 
Tennis is all sewn up by the ITF/national associations, the slams and the ATP/WTA. Pickleball has emerged from left field to eat their lunch.

Crocodile said:
Would you say that their is good money to be made in emergent businesses and established products like tennis is done, or that the opportunity to make money in tennis is slimmer due to too many competitors?
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Bartelby said:
The simple reason for pickleball's growth is that people with deep pockets are promoting an emergent business and are using money and marketing to do so.
Click to expand...

This is a gross oversimplification. Marketing and promotion only works to a certain extent and promotion often fails as we see with the WNBA.
Maerketing only goes so far and does not explain the love that these picklers have for their little game.
 
There has to be something to the game that makes it enjoyable, but without big money behind it, pickleball would be a side-show.

Better_Call_Raul said:
This is a gross oversimplification. Marketing and promotion only works to a certain extent and promotion often fails as we see with the WNBA.
Maerketing only goes so far and does not explain the love that these picklers have for their little game.
Click to expand...
 
Crocodile said:
I will check the draws but my estimate would be that doubles would easily outnumber singles entries.
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Given the tiny court dimensions. it is odd that the vast majority of these pickelers, even middle-aged players, are playing doubles.
Had initially thought it was because of limited court space. But even when courts are free, singles is rarely seen.
One would think singles would be much more fun, especially with a small court. And better exercise. But this doubles phenomenon likely speaks to the social aspect.
Much of the appeal is that it is viewed as a social event...
 
Bartelby said:
There has to be something to the game that makes it enjoyable, but without big money behind it, pickleball would be a side-show.
Click to expand...

There is no need to engage in profiteering theories. From our observations this pickel boom has primarily emerged as an organic grass-roots effort.
These poor hapless pickelers show up at city council meetings whining that tennis courts need to be re-purposed for their game.
If there was big money behind this pickel movement they would be constructing their own little pickel courts!
 
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Why buy and build your courts when you can take over tennis courts? It's not profiteering. It's called growing a business economically and out-growing the competition.

Better_Call_Raul said:
There is no need to engage in profiteering theories. From our observations this pickel boom has primarily emerged as an organic grass-roots effort.
These poor hapless pickelers show up at city council meetings whining that tennis courts need to be re-purposed for their game.
If there was big money behind this pickel movement they would be constructing their own little pickel courts!
Click to expand...
 
IMO both Tennis and Soccer are aesthetically beautiful and traditional sports. I wonder whether if Roger player PB whether he would transfer his geometrically perfect style to a game of PB? Seeing a 2 handed backhand adapted from tennis is PB looks wrong to me. Watching Eugenie Bouchard play her 2 handed backhand in PB looks like a tennis player invading PB.
I’m going to have another look today but so far to me it’s just not doing it for me. Maybe an elite version of PB will create a spark but it’s just like playing mini tennis.
What does impress me and makes me feel happy is seeing lots of people active, enjoying themselves and the positive spirit - that’s certainly a good thing, and all the events that are being organised around the country is good. One thing I would like to see is more independence in PB from tennis in its culture and participants. Seeing the same people at a PB tournament that you saw for years in the tennis community feels a bit strange.
I think if you are going to design a multi sports racquet and court facility then I don’t like the idea of shared space and court lines - have tennis for tennis and PB for PB.
And as far as the future of tennis, I think the beauty of a Tennis club needs to be promoted and stay true to its culture.
 
Bartelby said:
Why buy and build your courts when you can take over tennis courts? It's not profiteering. It's called growing a business economically and out-growing the competition.
Click to expand...
That’s all good, but don’t you think they should resurface the area and have proper PB courts with different coloured kitchen area and proper nets then just wheel in a net and tape down some lines.
I’d like to video this event but haven’t yet learned how to upload on imgur on post. I’m sure there will be some videos made:
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
Given the tiny court dimensions. it is odd that the vast majority of these pickelers, even middle-aged players, are playing doubles.
Had initially thought it was because of limited court space. But even when courts are free, singles is rarely seen.
One would think singles would be much more fun, especially with a small court. And better exercise. But this doubles phenomenon likely speaks to the social aspect.
Much of the appeal is that it is viewed as a social event...
Click to expand...
Same outer court dimensions for doubles badminton. Not all that easy to cover this "tiny" area in badminton -- especially in singles where the length is the same but the width is 3 feet narrower. Of course, in badminton, you can't let the shuttle bounce.

The total length of a pickleball (& badminton) court is 44 feet compared to 78 feet for tennis. While, on average, a pickleball ball won't travel quite as fast as a tennis ball, the shorter (& narrower) court means that the ball will come back in a short amount of time.

The same thing happen in table tennis (ping pong), where the playing surface is even smaller than pickleball. The ball comes back in a very short time -- even quicker than p'ball or tennis

Bottom line: it is easier to cover the court in p'ball than it is for badminton. Also, somewhat easier to cover a p'ball court than a tennis court. But it's not as easy as you think given the nature of the game.
 
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Crocodile said:
That’s all good, but don’t you think they should resurface the area and have proper PB courts with different coloured kitchen area and proper nets then just wheel in a net and tape down some lines.
I’d like to video this event but haven’t yet learned how to upload on imgur on post. I’m sure there will be some videos made:
Click to expand...
That has been done around here in a number of areas where there are an abundance of tennis courts. For instance, a local community college here had 16 tennis courts -- more than most schools. Two of those 16 courts were redone to create 6 pickleball courts.
 
Tennis centres are promoting pickleball so having dual-use courts is probably ideal for them. If it takes off then they may have dedicated courts.

Centres are always looking for "new platforms", as they call it, such as Fast 4 or cardio-tennis, so time will tell.

Crocodile said:
That’s all good, but don’t you think they should resurface the area and have proper PB courts with different coloured kitchen area and proper nets then just wheel in a net and tape down some lines.
I’d like to video this event but haven’t yet learned how to upload on imgur on post. I’m sure there will be some videos made:
Click to expand...
 
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I've seen padel taking off and growing much faster than tennis in my area. 10x.

It is easier to learn, more social, and they charge around the same price per hour as an indoor tennis court.

Much more profitable.
 
Suburban beach volleyball courts for the young and pickleball courts for the old seem to be two big trends.
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
Same outer court dimensions for doubles badminton. Not all that easy to cover this "tiny" area in badminton -- especially in singles where the length is the same but the width is 3 feet narrower. Of course, in badminton, you can't let the shuttle bounce.

The total length of a pickleball (& badminton) court is 44 feet compared to 78 feet for tennis. While, on average, a pickleball ball won't travel quite as fast as a tennis ball, the shorter (& narrower) court means that the ball will come back in a short amount of time.

The same thing happen in table tennis (ping pong), where the playing surface is even smaller than pickleball. The ball comes back in a very short time -- even quicker than p'ball or tennis

Bottom line: it is easier to cover the court in p'ball than it is for badminton. Also, somewhat easier to cover a p'ball court than a tennis court. But it's not as easy as you think given the nature of the game.
Click to expand...
Great post.
In pickleball you can camp out at the kitchen.
In tennis you can baseline rally.
In ping pong doubles you have to alternate hits which means constantly moving to let your partner gain position for the next shot and vice versa.
In badminton you never stop moving as you must recover to the middle position after every shot. The only time you stand still is to serve.
For me it's the fastest game and hardest court to cover, even in doubles.
 
Bartelby said:
Suburban beach volleyball courts for the young and pickleball courts for the old seem to be two big trends.
Click to expand...

Every public park should have tennis courts. Free and easy access for all of the people. This is the case in most of America. America has the highest number of FREE public courts in the world.

Not sure why Australia cannot manage this and what is the situation in your favourite China and Russia.
 
The problem in Australia is that there is a strong divide between active and passive recreation. We also require strict management and that is too costly unless there are many courts.

Better_Call_Raul said:
Every public park should have tennis courts. Free and easy access for all of the people. This is the case in most of America. America has the highest number of FREE public courts in the world.

Not sure why Australia cannot manage this and what is the situation in your favourite China and Russia.
Click to expand...
 
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