Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Yeah and it continues to prove what a mean spirited person you are. Congratulations.
Alpha Ghost 2 Stringing Machine
- Thread starter Edgewood
- Start date
Yeah and it continues to prove what a mean spirited person you are. Congratulations.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Are you saying the turntable with twist back and forth on the Sensor as tension is applied? That really surprises me.
That sounds like the exact opposite of what to said before that. But I would agree that using a lock or any way to damp the turntable would result in a slightly higher DT if anything.
fritzhimself
Professional
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afeller
New User
Uh, tension range is from 0,1 lbs to i don't know
The highest I measured was 40 kilos (~88 lbs) with an Babolat Sensor Dual.I think its a little bit dampened but still fluctuate.
On my best machine the PT8DX it shows exactly the right values. With 20 kg it normally shows between 19,9 and 20,1 kg. Depending on the constant pull and relaxation of the string.
LOBALOT
Hall of Fame
Thanks Irvin.
I sure do understand 1 and wonder if this is a good example.
If you are not concerned about DT as it is just a number then why in the next sentence are you bragging about the DT you get on your machine?
So you are saying the dampener on the Start 5 (and your low budget Game X) is there for the same reason as the Ghost 2 auto-break. Which is to aim for a higher DT but you just said it is just a number. Why would the manufacturers add this capability if it is just a number?
Are you commenting on the Gear / friction "break"/brake or you know this? I am trying to understand if I should file this in don't believe everything you read.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I’m bragging about the the DT I get on my machine? No matter what machine I use, who it belongs to, or what methods I use I could get a higher DT by simply by upping the tension. Have a nice day.
EDIT: Over 99% of the time I don’t measure DT.
LOBALOT
Hall of Fame
I do agree technique has a lot to do with the outcome.
Most on this forum have taught me a lot including you and I do appreciate that.
All the other excess stuff from you is unessecary and impacts how folks interact with you.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Quoted for truth.
afeller
New User
I think the auto lock feature is nice. But if you use it wrong, you will never get an consistent result. Because if the machine locks not on the same angle as before, you get another result.
Normally the turntable is aligned automatically to a straight line to the middle of it (not the racket). And even if you align the racket the next time a little bit higher or lower, the angle will not change that much.
With the auto lock function, the angle can differ significantly each time. But perhaps I have not yet fully understood the auto lock function...
Moreover I have to adjust the tension if I move from an auto lock machine to a normal one or vice versa.
Normally the turntable is aligned automatically to a straight line to the middle of it (not the racket). And even if you align the racket the next time a little bit higher or lower, the angle will not change that much.
With the auto lock function, the angle can differ significantly each time. But perhaps I have not yet fully understood the auto lock function...
Moreover I have to adjust the tension if I move from an auto lock machine to a normal one or vice versa.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I’m not sure how the brake works on the Ghost 2, is the brake a friction frame or is it a gear that locks the turntable into a fixed position?
If a string is tensioned, without a brake applied, the string will be stretched at it greatest length from the turntable pivot to the point where the string is fixed on the gripper assembly (diablo, diabolo, string guide, gripper plates, or rotary gripper. The only deflection will be where the string travels through a grommet. Pulling tension on the top cross, where the string bends sharply around the grommet away from a direct path to the turntable pivot, will produce more friction that pulling the cross that travels close to the turntable pivot. The greater the string deflection, the greater the friction, the greater the tension loss.
No matter what string you tension, if the string is deflected there is tension loss due to friction. If there can be a significant angle created by a brake (I can’t really see that happening on the Ghost 2 auto brake) there is significant tension loss. If there is a slighly greater angle greater by the brake there is a slightly greater tension loss. If the string is tensioned and the turntable freely pivots to a natural position you have the least amounted of friction possible. As long as the turntable is held stationary, with the least friction, there is no way a brake can increase tension or DT.
Look again the the pictures in post #55. If the string travels threw 2 grommets you have the greatest tension loss. The greater the deflection angle through the grommet the greater the tension loss. The tension loss in the 3 pictures in that post was 1.36 kg. Am I the only one that noticed that? That’s a 3 lb difference in tension.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
@afeller It appears to me the one with the brake applied has the higher tension. Do know why? The answer is simple, in the example in the first photo there is a greater angle of string deflection going through the grommet because the turntable is free to rotate on its central pivot. In the second photo the turntable is locked so the string travels directly through the grommet less deflection is less friction which results in less loss or higher tension.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I have a question for you. Was that brake locked manually or was it automatically locked by the machine?
afeller
New User
Manually... This Yonex machine has no auto lock.
And yes i know why there is a higher tension...
The only thing what I want to say/show is, that you have to work very precisely with the auto lock, that you always reach 90° and the maximum tension. Otherwise you have a larger deviation from stringjob to stringjob than without auto-lock.
As far as I know, the machine locks the table, when you pull the string, no matter what angle/position the racket/table has.
And yes i know why there is a higher tension...
The only thing what I want to say/show is, that you have to work very precisely with the auto lock, that you always reach 90° and the maximum tension. Otherwise you have a larger deviation from stringjob to stringjob than without auto-lock.
As far as I know, the machine locks the table, when you pull the string, no matter what angle/position the racket/table has.
I think Yonex finally introduced an auto lock function on the Precision 9.0. If you have had a chance to use a 9.0, what do you think about it compared to the PT8 DX? Also they moved the diabolo of the 9.0 so the length of string from the grommet to the tensioner is shorter. Is this much better?
Folsom_Stringer_Musa
Professional
Here is an example for the friction:
Second and third photo proves the effect of friction.
Folsom_Stringer_Musa
Professional
2nd image is with brake.
In your second image, you are trying to show the angle as 90 degrees which is not the case.
The angular difference is small between the 2 pulls you are showing.
afeller
New User
Very nice Machine. But its heavier and has more technology/electronics (height adjustment, auto lock). Also the P9 is very expensive. I don't know, but for my taste a little bit too much of everything. I think it is more a machine for shops like the Babolat Sensor Expert, to impress customers. I'm not saying that it's a bad machine. Rather the opposite...
But in the last week I restored a Babolat 2502e/Star 4. Beautiful simple technology, all of it! You can easily disassemble every part of the machine and the mechanics are rock solid. I would say that there will never be a machine of this simplicity, stability, reliability again. I love such simple mechanics/technology.
This is definitely better. You need less string. On my ES5Protech the distance is fine, but if you compare it to the Babolat Star4/2502e it is huge. On the PT8 you need a lot of more string (at least 20 cm) than with the ES5Protech. Toyozouki did then a improvement to the PT8DX, they reduced the distance of the gripper and made the diabolo smaller.
You could say they first made it worse, then made it better again to advertise it
That are 90 degrees... The angle from the string of the machine does not matter. The angle of the grommet and string counts if you want to reduce the friction.
I think its around 15°. And that is the point. Its not that much. But as you see it is 0,5 kg difference...
If you use the auto-lock function and string two same rackets, you must hit on both rackets every time the same angle on every grommet. Otherwise the result will not be consistent (quite certainly not measurable).
If you let align the racket itself, you will get a more consistent result. Not a tighter...
Conclusion:
Auto-Lock on: you get a tighter stringjob, but MAYBE not such consistent
Auto-Lock off: you get a looser stringjob, but more consistent
Folsom_Stringer_Musa
Professional
Very nice Machine. But its heavier and has more technology/electronics (height adjustment, auto lock). Also the P9 is very expensive. I don't know, but for my taste a little bit too much of everything. I think it is more a machine for shops like the Babolat Sensor Expert, to impress customers. I'm not saying that it's a bad machine. Rather the opposite...
But in the last week I restored a Babolat 2502e/Star 4. Beautiful simple technology, all of it! You can easily disassemble every part of the machine and the mechanics are rock solid. I would say that there will never be a machine of this simplicity, stability, reliability again. I love such simple mechanics/technology.
This is definitely better. You need less string. On my ES5Protech the distance is fine, but if you compare it to the Babolat Star4/2502e it is huge. On the PT8 you need a lot of more string (at least 20 cm) than with the ES5Protech. Toyozouki did then a improvement to the PT8DX, they reduced the distance of the gripper and made the diabolo smaller.
You could say they first made it worse, then made it better again to advertise it
That are 90 degrees... The angle from the string of the machine does not matter. The angle of the grommet and string counts if you want to reduce the friction.
I think its around 15°. And that is the point. Its not that much. But as you see it is 0,5 kg difference...
If you use the auto-lock function and string two same rackets, you must hit on both rackets every time the same angle on every grommet. Otherwise the result will not be consistent (quite certainly not measurable).
If you let align the racket itself, you will get a more consistent result. Not a tighter...
Conclusion:
Auto-Lock on: you get a tighter stringjob, but MAYBE not such consistent
Auto-Lock off: you get a looser stringjob, but more consistent
The gripper on the second image is at awkward angle with the break on. I didn't notice that part earlier.
Consistency before tightness.
Very nice Machine. But its heavier and has more technology/electronics (height adjustment, auto lock). Also the P9 is very expensive. I don't know, but for my taste a little bit too much of everything. I think it is more a machine for shops like the Babolat Sensor Expert, to impress customers. I'm not saying that it's a bad machine. Rather the opposite...
But in the last week I restored a Babolat 2502e/Star 4. Beautiful simple technology, all of it! You can easily disassemble every part of the machine and the mechanics are rock solid. I would say that there will never be a machine of this simplicity, stability, reliability again. I love such simple mechanics/technology.
This is definitely better. You need less string. On my ES5Protech the distance is fine, but if you compare it to the Babolat Star4/2502e it is huge. On the PT8 you need a lot of more string (at least 20 cm) than with the ES5Protech. Toyozouki did then a improvement to the PT8DX, they reduced the distance of the gripper and made the diabolo smaller.
You could say they first made it worse, then made it better again to advertise it
That are 90 degrees... The angle from the string of the machine does not matter. The angle of the grommet and string counts if you want to reduce the friction.
I think its around 15°. And that is the point. Its not that much. But as you see it is 0,5 kg difference...
If you use the auto-lock function and string two same rackets, you must hit on both rackets every time the same angle on every grommet. Otherwise the result will not be consistent (quite certainly not measurable).
If you let align the racket itself, you will get a more consistent result. Not a tighter...
Conclusion:
Auto-Lock on: you get a tighter stringjob, but MAYBE not such consistent
Auto-Lock off: you get a looser stringjob, but more consistent
Thanks a lot for all the information. The diabolo on the first PT8 was enormous. I had the impression that the 9.0 would be more for shops. If you have used the Tecnifibre Ergo One, how does it compare to the 2502e/Star 4?
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
So does the first.
The angular difference is actually quite large look at the string on the diablo.
Had you actually been pulling tension on the 5th main the the results would have been thr opposite.
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Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
the greater the angle the more loss.
if the angle is the same with and without the brake you will get the same tension and more consistency IF the turntable is not allowed to move any. How the turntable is held steady (brake or damping) does not matter.
Folsom_Stringer_Musa
Professional
Agree. I missed it initially.
For what it’s worth, I have a Ghost 2 and I don’t think the auto brake makes much of a difference in final dynamic tension because of the way it functions. The auto brake doesn’t seem to engage immediately as you initiate the pull, but rather the pull seems to start, the turntable next rotates slightly to the normal equilibrium point, then the brake engages. The angle of the pull seems to be the same as with no auto brake.
Addxyz
Hall of Fame
Interesting... I'll have to try it out.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Doesn’t seem like that method would work well for ported rackets.
am1899
Legend
No shortage of Ghost owners around here. Maybe asking one of them to chime in on the subject would be more meaningful - rather than speculating?
I've never used a Ghost 2, but I think that the auto-brake does still help when doing O-port/Roller type frames.
Perhaps the user needs to position/steady the frame by hand (where it needs to be) just prior to the auto-brake engaging?
I feel like @g4driver and/or @LOBALOT have certainly logged enough miles on theirs to definitely speak on this.
Let's see what they have to add.
g4driver
Legend
The Ghost works just fine on Prince O-Port frames. The Auto-Brake feature makes stringing a Prince O-Port easier than not using the Auto-Brake.
Multiple methods to string an O-Port frame but the Ghost Auto Brake worked for @SavvyStringer on Prince O-Ports and it works for me. He just happens to string at the USOpen, the Volvo Car Open, and several other tournaments. He owns a Ghost and a Wilson Baiardo, and his Ghost is unused right now with his Wilson Baiardo at over 4K frames on it.
The Baiardo is a superior machine to the Ghost for many reasons. My back has had three surgeries from a neurosurgeon, and the height and tilt features on the Baiardo and Baiardo Lite are fabulous. But when people look at a Baiardo Lite vs a Ghost 2 for roughly the same price, they have to decide what features they want and need. I don't know how many frames the average home stringer strings per month, but I guess I string more than the average home stringer. Just a guess. The Baiardo Lite is a great machine as are many in the same price range. I look back 5.5 years ago and can't believe I waited so long to buy a better machine. Yes, $3300 is a cash outlay. $6000ish for a Wilson Baiardo is an even bigger investment for a home stringer. But stringing 100+ frames a month at $15 pays for that Baiardo stringing machine in four months. Writing it off and depreciating it as a business expensive makes it even more attractive.
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g4driver
Legend
I concur with this for the Original Ghost as well. I stung two of my own frames last night. One with the auto brake on and one auto brake off. Same strings, same tension. At my 4.0 level, I couldn't tell a difference today alternating frames every two games in a mixed 8.0 practice today. Two PA+ frames with HGS 1.25mm 55M/ Ghostwire 1.22mm 53X. Won 6-0, 6-4 today. Played two different 8.0 teams with all players at 4.0. @MisterP was in the group with me today, although he and I didn't play against each other. He did play the same two people I played in that first set. I am a hack of a player, but I string for quite a few 4.5 and 5.0 men and a few current collegiate players when they are home in Charleston SC.
The Ghost (and I can only guess ) the Ghost 2 work the same: the tensioner pulls the string partially without locking out, as the table turns until the angle is an angle very close to the same angle you would get with the auto brake off. Then tensioner continues to pulls and then locks out.
@MisterP knows several 5.0C Rated USTA men I string for on my Ghost. One of them in his late 30s strings his Wilson Ultra Tours 18x20 with HG 1.20mm but like other players with stringing machines, he would rather pay me $15 to string his frames.
If the Ghost were so bad at providing a consistent string job, why do clients leave two local shops closer to their homes both with Wilson Baiardo machines, and use a stringer with an Alpha Ghost? Surely the $2 price difference isn't enough to pick me. My 02: It isn't the machine. It's the stringer.
@MisterP is on this forum and he knows the two clubs on Daniel Island, SC that I am referring to. He also knows our teammate and friend who owns yet a third and superior tennis shop in Mount Pleasant SC. I support my teammate and friend who owns his tennis shop in Mount Pleasant and send clients to him for frames, shoes, stringing. He sends them to me when they need something he doesn't have or he is closed. But we support each other when one of us needs something. Grommets, strings, etc. When his shop is closed and his clients need a frame strung, he tells them to try me. He lives 30 mins from his shop and I live closer to a lot of his clients. We are on the same tennis team and have known each other for years. Mutual respect and friends.
One of my clients lives in Daniel Island Park, home to one of the clubs I am writing about. It is .5 miles from his house. The other is about 1.5 miles from his house. Yet, he uses me as his stringer, even though I am a professional pilot and not always home. This year one of the tennis club's managers where he and I play both play asked him why he used me for his stringing vs their shop. The client told him "When I drop my frame off with your shop, I have no idea who strung it and they never feel the same when they come back. When he (speaking of me) picks up my frames and delivers my frames back to me, I know he strung my frame, not one of your random stringers, and when he strings my frames, they always feel the same."
I am not a brick and motor store and many clients know they can text or call me at 745 pm as they need a frame strung for their kid who only has one frame or if they broke two strings one night in a match, if I am home I will take care of them. I have a lot of loyal clients and my Ghost has treated me beyond my expectations when I purchased it. My Ghost is going strong after 5.5 years and it has allowed me to string 100+ frames a month. I am certainly not stringing the level of frames @SavvyStringer strings, but I have more business than I need. Buying a Wilson Baiardo or a Yonex Precision 9.0 isn't going to make me a better stringer and the best stringers in the world could string better than me on any machine. What I am trying to do is to provide a consistent string job to my clients at a price they like.
The Wilson Baiardo is a fabulous machine and likely the next stringing machine I will buy simply due to three back surgeries. Last week I asked @SavvyStringer about his Ghost vs the Baiardo since he strings for many hours and that is where the Wilson Baiardo made a difference to him and I think would help me the most. I don't want a Baiardo Lite. It is a great machine, yes, it tilts and raises, but the clamps aren't the same and the clamps are one of the most important parts of the machine to me. @Herb did a great review of his Baiardo vs his Bairodo Lite. The clamps on the BL are something I wish Wilson would upgrade. The X-Spider Clamps which I believe are on the Tourna might fit on a BL and if so, that is probably a great option The price difference to me is 200 frames strung worth of labor. So 3K vs 6K isn't an issue to me for a Baiardo Lite vs a Baiardo.
I don't see any reason to bad mouth any of these machines. Be nice to people. Help people by giving the pros and cons of a machine you own whether it is a Star 5, a Prince 6000/7000, a Wilson Baiardo or Lite, or a Tourna 700ES or The Might Sensor.
@Rabbit I just love The Mighty Sensor and yes every time I read your post about it I do smile.99% of the home stringers on this message board would be happy and proud to own any one of those machines. I don't aspire to string at the US Open, the Volvo Car Open, or any open. But yes, I have tons of respect for those stringers like @uk_skippy and @SavvyStringer for sharing their knowledge with others. I don't want to string 29 frames a day. 10 frames a day is too many for me. I like my little niche business and either I am doing something right or perhaps my clients just feel sorry for me and throw business to me.
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The auto brake does help with O ports. It just means I need to hold the racquet in place for a second until it locksI've never used a Ghost 2, but I think that the auto-brake does still help when doing O-port/Roller type frames.
Perhaps the user needs to position/steady the frame by hand (where it needs to be) just prior to the auto-brake engaging?
I feel like @g4driver and/or @LOBALOT have certainly logged enough miles on theirs to definitely speak on this.
Let's see what they have to add.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Seems to me that's what the auto brake was invented for.
LOBALOT
Hall of Fame
I've never used a Ghost 2, but I think that the auto-brake does still help when doing O-port/Roller type frames.
Perhaps the user needs to position/steady the frame by hand (where it needs to be) just prior to the auto-brake engaging?
I feel like @g4driver and/or @LOBALOT have certainly logged enough miles on theirs to definitely speak on this.
Let's see what they have to add.
Thanks Wes. I actually use Sharpava's old O Port frame (Original O3 White with lead in the handle and at 3 and 9). It is the only thing keeping me playing as I fractured my wrist and tore my TFC tendon several years ago playing tennis which required 3 surgeries followed by a bone spur elbow surgery shortly thereafter. I really couldn't play with any level without pain for 7 years and still cannot pronate my right wrist. I do feel I can finally swing out on the ball now over the past couple of years.
Anyway, I have strung a lot of ported racquets both mine and friends with my Ghost 2 and yes it works great (Yes we are older so more O Ports than one would typically see). You are correct you still need to slightly angle the frame so the string is barely touching that side of the port and then the lock takes over.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
I am down to two regular O-port frames on the Mighty Sensor. Before going down to Destin last weekend, I knocked them both out for a fellar. They are Prince Blue 110's. The Mighty Sensor laughs at boomerang tools, 50/50 patterns, Sharpie Caps, and decorative clothes pins that your great-great-great grandmother used to string O-ports. The notion of such is abhorrent to the Mighty Sensor. The Mighty Sensor says bring one bring all!
To keep this thread from derailing (any further), let me add that should the Mighty Sensor give up the "ghost", I will immediately purchase a Ghost II from Alpha as its heir to the throne.
To keep this thread from derailing (any further), let me add that should the Mighty Sensor give up the "ghost", I will immediately purchase a Ghost II from Alpha as its heir to the throne.
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fritzhimself
Professional
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g4driver
Legend
It is a magnetic brake.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
That's what I thought I remembered. That is another reason I'd love to own one. That is soooo cool. The Mighty Sensor has a friction brake, like the Prince Neos 1000. The Neos 1500 has a gear brake. Of those two, I preferred the 1500's. But the Ghost tops them all.
LOBALOT
Hall of Fame
At least I try to keep my ported racquet 100 or less.
I do string a couple of those 120 and 110 ported racquets that use 1/2 a reel of string.
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