Alternative methods for a "11-12 o clock" toss?

[Slicerman]

Been working on my serve more lately as well evaluate the ball toss, which I think has been one of my main struggles on serve.

I've been starting to realize that my 1st serve is way more consistent by using a purely vertical toss (straight up-down) with a more diagonal tossing arm forward into the court. Putting it into the 1 o clock position fairly consistently.

However my 2nd serve toss for topspin/kick style has been quite inconsistent, re-tossing the ball fairly often sometimes. I tend to do a parallel baseline toss and arc the ball to the 11-12 o clock position. I manage it okay when I calm down and toss it more slow and fluid.

But I was wondering if alternative methods of doing a 2nd serve toss WITHOUT arcing the ball. Is it possible or viable to get a 11-12 o clock toss with a pure vertical toss?

 

[tex123]

Been working on my serve more lately as well evaluate the ball toss, which I think has been one of my main struggles on serve.

I've been starting to realize that my 1st serve is way more consistent by using a purely vertical toss (straight up-down) with a more diagonal tossing arm forward into the court. Putting it into the 1 o clock position fairly consistently.

However my 2nd serve toss for topspin/kick style has been quite inconsistent, re-tossing the ball fairly often sometimes. I tend to do a parallel baseline toss and arc the ball to the 11-12 o clock position. I manage it okay when I calm down and toss it more slow and fluid.

But I was wondering if alternative methods of doing a 2nd serve toss WITHOUT arcing the ball. Is it possible or viable to get a 11-12 o clock toss with a pure vertical toss?

AFAIK every second serve needs some "arcing" the ball. How will you topspin/kick it otherwise? I have a serve motion like Alcaraz's as I find it very simple (with a compact platform stance but both my hands don't go up with the ball like his).

 

[johnmccabe]

Been working on my serve more lately as well evaluate the ball toss, which I think has been one of my main struggles on serve.

I've been starting to realize that my 1st serve is way more consistent by using a purely vertical toss (straight up-down) with a more diagonal tossing arm forward into the court. Putting it into the 1 o clock position fairly consistently.

However my 2nd serve toss for topspin/kick style has been quite inconsistent, re-tossing the ball fairly often sometimes. I tend to do a parallel baseline toss and arc the ball to the 11-12 o clock position. I manage it okay when I calm down and toss it more slow and fluid.

But I was wondering if alternative methods of doing a 2nd serve toss WITHOUT arcing the ball. Is it possible or viable to get a 11-12 o clock toss with a pure vertical toss?

I have the same tossing setup as you. What helped my second serve toss was pointing the feet more parallel to baseline during second serve, compared to first serve. That way the arm motion becomes relatively similar to the first serve toss. Adjusting the timing of ball release controls how far left the contact point will be. I sometimes still toss too far into the court for kick, but learning to move/launch under the ball in those situations.

My opponents read it easier, but I just want to hit good kick serves and worry about the return later.

 

[Dragy]

You can step diagonally under your vertical toss, front foot first. But it will likely cause more trouble.

You can also try leaning a bit differently with your torso to change the geometry for tossing on 2nd serves: yes, it will still be arcing, but from your arm action perspective and release timing it will feel exactly the same as your 1st serve toss.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Vertical toss? How are you achieving that? Very low release point -- when the tossing arm is parallel to the ground?

Vertical toss for 2nd serve? Not recommended.

 

[Slicerman]

It's been over a year. I'm continuing to do an arc toss on 2nd serve, but still quite inconsistent. Anyone else with suggestions/ideas?

 

[BBender716]

It's been over a year. I'm continuing to do an arc toss on 2nd serve, but still quite inconsistent. Anyone else with suggestions/ideas?

I implement the suggestion of being a bit more parallel to the baseline and also move my tossing around slightly more to my side. However, it honestly is just a matter of doing a crap ton of tosses.

 

[Slicerman]

I implement the suggestion of being a bit more parallel to the baseline and also move my tossing around slightly more to my side. However, it honestly is just a matter of doing a crap ton of tosses.

I do use a parallel stance when doing 2nd serve. But overall, a lot of things to fix on my serve. Over the past year trying to focus on improve my racquet drop. Feels like a balancing act.

I probably need to hit up the ball hopper again. Been almost exclusively committed to doubles league lately. It doesn't give enough reps to dial in much and its a higher pressure situation.

Should probably break it down to progressions when I get a chance to train.

 

[Dragy]

Do you have video of your serve?

 

[Shroud]

Been working on my serve more lately as well evaluate the ball toss, which I think has been one of my main struggles on serve.

I've been starting to realize that my 1st serve is way more consistent by using a purely vertical toss (straight up-down) with a more diagonal tossing arm forward into the court. Putting it into the 1 o clock position fairly consistently.

However my 2nd serve toss for topspin/kick style has been quite inconsistent, re-tossing the ball fairly often sometimes. I tend to do a parallel baseline toss and arc the ball to the 11-12 o clock position. I manage it okay when I calm down and toss it more slow and fluid.

But I was wondering if alternative methods of doing a 2nd serve toss WITHOUT arcing the ball. Is it possible or viable to get a 11-12 o clock toss with a pure vertical toss?

right there with you. 40years of tennis and I still can't toss the damn ball...

 

[sureshs]

right there with you. 40years of tennis and I still can't toss the damn ball...

I can always toss the ball but it is usually not where it should be.

 

[Shroud]

I can always toss the ball but it is usually not where it should be.

of course but you are a guru...If you had non pink shoes it would be where it should be. Pink blinds you and weakens you and iirc affects your appetite. Which affects the toss location.

 

[sureshs]

of course but you are a guru...If you had non pink shoes it would be where it should be. Pink blinds you and weakens you and iirc affects your appetite. Which affects the toss location.

I think it is more of a gravitation issue. The ball moves towards a heavy mass like you and if you are walking around in Florida, it moves towards wherever you are and I get messed up.

 

[Shroud]

I think it is more of a gravitation issue. The ball moves towards a heavy mass like you and if you are walking around in Florida, it moves towards wherever you are and I get messed up.

Is there a "pot calling the kettle black" emoji?

For the serve toss, my fingers often move and launch the damn thing in weird directions. Most often its when I am excited about hitting a serve and coming in.

 

[sureshs]

Is there a "pot calling the kettle black" emoji?

For the serve toss, my fingers often move and launch the damn thing in weird directions. Most often its when I am excited about hitting a serve and coming in.

It is a basic lack of body coordination and cannot be easily fixed.

 

[Shroud]

It is a basic lack of body coordination and cannot be easily fixed.

its the fingers.

 

[zoingy]

It's been over a year. I'm continuing to do an arc toss on 2nd serve, but still quite inconsistent. Anyone else with suggestions/ideas?

I like thinking of it as a tilted vertical toss rather than an arc. Since you should be tilting your body around the same time, it's kinda like the 2nd serve toss is the straight one, and the 1st serve is the odd one out for being way in front.

Also if you have a high toss, it's really hard to control the amount of horizontal travel. Iirc Zverev's old 2nd serve had a pretty vertical toss. Meanwhile somebody like Shelton seems to have a much easier time tossing for a kick serve.

 

[Slicerman]

Do you have video of your serve?

I do from a year ago. But I think my serve has changed a bit since then. Maybe I'll try to get some new video sometime.