Alternative two handed backhand

oserver

Professional
What can be done to improve the odds for backhand stroke to rival the modern forehand?

The single handed backhand is less and less likely to be the good option.
The current two handed backhand is a better choice than the single handed backhand,
but it still appears to be a weak choice. The need for all top players to hit the inside out
shots is the proof.

The good news is that we have not tried all options yet.
Here is an alternative backhand style with comparisons to the popular two handed backhand -

Hybrid lefty two handed backhand------------Popular two handed backhand
Right hand grip - #3 eastern or semi-western---Right hand grip - #2 continental
Left hand grip - #4 semi-western or eastern-----Right hand grip - #3 eastern or semi-western
Right hand position - front-------------------------Right hand position - back
Left hand position - back--------------------------Left hand position - front
Right hand swing - windshield--------------------Right hand swing - more drive through the ball
Left hand swing - windshield----------------------Left hand swing - more drive through the ball
Wrist - very loose-----------------------------------Wrist - cannot be very loose
Arms swing - passive-------------------------------Arms swing - more active
Arms swing - angular, cross body-----------------Arms swing - more linear, more drive through the ball
Likeness to a lefty forehand - mostly--------------Likeness to a lefty forehand - not much
Body rotation - more--------------------------------Body rotation - less (left hand in front)
Grips - not using #1 and #2------------------------Grips - not using #1
Grips total 3+4=7 or 4+4=8------------------------Grips total 2+3=5 or 2+4=6
Grips total 7 or 8 - more topspin oriented--------Grips total 5 or 6 - more linear
Style - like a forehand------------------------------Style - not like a forehand

The hybrid lefty two handed backhand can also be called Forehand Style Backhand for the above similarities to the modern forehand. It require some changes; the biggest one is the hand position changes from serve/forehand to backhand; then the increases of grips from smaller #s to bigger #s. We already know what it means from the forehand grip increases from #2 to #3, #4 or even to #5 in the modernization of forehand.

Fore experienced players, the good news is that one already know how to hit the forehand. So the hybrid lefty two handed backhand is not totally new mentally, and to borrow the forehand muscle memory from forehand to backhand won't be time consuming.

Fore beginner level players, this style can be short cut to achieve speedy learning progresses, since the teaching and learning of both backhand and forehand are mostly the same, not totally different.

For someone who like the try this style, here is a tip for the hand position changes -

At ready position, leave the back position (end of the racket handle) open with out any hand to occupied the spot. If you are receiving a serve and you are a right hand forehand player, you can use you left hand to hold the front position on the racket handle; the right hand position in front of the lefthand. If the opponent serve to the forehand, the right hand quickly pass the left hand to the bottom position to hit the single handed forehand return. If the opponent serve to the backhand, the right hand grip the handle to let the left hand to quickly slide to the bottom position first, then right hand also slide down. Certainly, one need some practice to get used to the hand position switches, plus the adjusting the right grips for both hands. You can also switch the hands positions to let the left hand grip in front of the right hand at first.
 
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Kevo

Legend
Best option would be to hit forehands off both sides. I just don't see a backhand, one hand or two, competing with a well trained forehand. You could have two hands on both sides if a player has good body geometry for it. That's a remote possibility though on the men's side. You won't see Nadal like spin on a two handed stroke as far as I can tell, but maybe the right player could pull it off.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Best option would be to hit forehands off both sides. I just don't see a backhand, one hand or two, competing with a well trained forehand. You could have two hands on both sides if a player has good body geometry for it. That's a remote possibility though on the men's side. You won't see Nadal like spin on a two handed stroke as far as I can tell, but maybe the right player could pull it off.
Bad idea to hit 2hbh inside out! Unless it's a clean winner attempt.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
When u hit inside out, you expose a huge court for opponent's dtl reply.
That's ok to expose your forehand, because you have more reach and is used to hitting it all the time the same way all career.
But a backhand gets picked on, and you encourage it hitting inside out.
Of course, a backhand inside out should have been a forehand.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
When u hit inside out, you expose a huge court for opponent's dtl reply.
That's ok to expose your forehand, because you have more reach and is used to hitting it all the time the same way all career.
But a backhand gets picked on, and you encourage it hitting inside out.
Of course, a backhand inside out should have been a forehand.
But you are assuming one’s forehand is his stronger wing. Every match I play at my level, I go in knowing that my forehand is probably weaker than my opponent’s, but my backhand is a lot stronger. I often try to conceal this against new opponents. But once an opponent figures out that he should hit more balls to my forehand, I’m sometimes better off positioning myself further to my right and daring my opponent to hit to the open court on my backhand side.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
When u hit inside out, you expose a huge court for opponent's dtl reply.
That's ok to expose your forehand, because you have more reach

It's a matter of degree: if I try to hit an IO FH from my BH doubles alley, that's probably too far, no matter how much extra reach I have with the FH vs the BH.

By the same token, hitting an IO BH from halfway between the centerline and the sideline might be just fine from a coverage standpoint.

and is used to hitting it all the time the same way all career.

You're assuming the person hits IO FHs frequently. If you can assume that, why not assume they also have experience with IO BHs?

But a backhand gets picked on, and you encourage it hitting inside out.
Of course, a backhand inside out should have been a forehand.

Unless the person's BH is more reliable than their FH.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Man, we can find exceptions to every rule, and any rule.
Is it ok to stop your serve sequence for 1 full minute or more? Of course, if you just had a heart attack or there's a 7.5 earthquake starting.
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
Of course I agree with Leed Salam Salam. Something I sometimes do and would love to do more is io bh slice. Lots of court means u can slow it down and add side so it hardly bounces. Admittedly I most often do on ROS wen I got caught late on crappy footwork. Advantage is u can play late with minimal swing. Of course slice to BH corner betterer but don't own that shot
 

Kevo

Legend
Bad idea to hit 2hbh inside out! Unless it's a clean winner attempt.
I was not actually talking about shot vs shot. My post was written in the context of the original poster's question about a better two handed backhand. I think an off handed forehand would be better. Exception might be a person with the proper frame to hit two hands on both sides, but even then there might be a deficiency in the ability to produce spin compared to the forehand stroke. In the end this is going to vary as to what will be optimal for a particular individual.
 

Kobble

Hall of Fame
Just go with two forehands at that point. Not that hard to hit a lefty forehand with tons of practice. Nadal did it.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Just go with two forehands at that point. Not that hard to hit a lefty forehand with tons of practice. Nadal did it.

The problem with this is time. To hit two forehands, you have to switch your grip and your whole orientation and that is impossible to do at match speed.

A local guy has solved that problem by using a racquet with two handles. So when he switches hands, he's immediately got the correct grip on either wing.

I think that in the future we will see players reliably using 1H and 2H BHs depending on position.

I have started to use the 1HBH flat/topspin shot more but only in certain situations (usually when I am handling a shorter or wider ball and am pressed for time). The 1HBH is so much easier when you are on the move, where you can redirect pace or speed.

In other situations like being pushed back with a high-bouncing heavy ball, I'd never try to come over that shot with a one-hander. Or when I'm given a ball without much pace and need to hit a more deliberate, structured shot, a 1H will just spray or dump in the net.

You need a backhand. I think most of us can agree for example that handling droppers is more natural when you use your leading hand and Djokovic spoke about this as well in one of his Q&A instructional videos.
 

oserver

Professional
Best option would be to hit forehands off both sides. I just don't see a backhand, one hand or two, competing with a well trained forehand. You could have two hands on both sides if a player has good body geometry for it. That's a remote possibility though on the men's side. You won't see Nadal like spin on a two handed stroke as far as I can tell, but maybe the right player could pull it off.
Unfortunately, no one has born to be able to train both hands to play single handed well enough to reach top level. I guess many people have tried this way, but gave it up because it took too long to reach competitive level.
 

oserver

Professional
Bad idea to hit 2hbh inside out! Unless it's a clean winner attempt.
If the two handed backhand can rival the level of one handed forehand, player won't do inside out shots. We often see them simply because the two handed backhands are weaker.
 
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oserver

Professional
But you are assuming one’s forehand is his stronger wing. Every match I play at my level, I go in knowing that my forehand is probably weaker than my opponent’s, but my backhand is a lot stronger. I often try to conceal this against new opponents. But once an opponent figures out that he should hit more balls to my forehand, I’m sometimes better off positioning myself further to my right and daring my opponent to hit to the open court on my backhand side.
How did you make your 2h backhand stronger than your 1h forehand? Do you have different forms than current popular grips and techniques?
 
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Kevo

Legend
Unfortunately, no one has born to be able to train both hands to play single handed well enough to reach top level. I guess many people have tried this way, but gave it up because it took too long to reach competitive level.

My theory is that is just a hold over from childhood. Most pros start at a young age and I would suspect many of them use two hands because of a lack of strength. I think it would be very unlikely that they would feel a strong urge to switch to one hand on their own for their weaker side. I think it would have to be encouraged by an adult.

I learned how to hit an off hand forehand pretty easily from teaching, but it's not as good as my backhand because I simply haven't put in the time with it. I would have had to have started that way earlier to make it reasonably even with my actual forehand.

Right now it's a risky thing to try, but if someone could prove it can be done by actually breaking into the top 30 or so on tour, I'm sure we'd see more people give it a try.
 

oserver

Professional
My theory is that is just a hold over from childhood. Most pros start at a young age and I would suspect many of them use two hands because of a lack of strength. I think it would be very unlikely that they would feel a strong urge to switch to one hand on their own for their weaker side. I think it would have to be encouraged by an adult.

I learned how to hit an off hand forehand pretty easily from teaching, but it's not as good as my backhand because I simply haven't put in the time with it. I would have had to have started that way earlier to make it reasonably even with my actual forehand.

Right now it's a risky thing to try, but if someone could prove it can be done by actually breaking into the top 30 or so on tour, I'm sure we'd see more people give it a try.
Time is always involved with any choice. Single handed on both sides would be ideal, in theory, but hard for top players to reach and stay in top 300 range. I gave this up quickly since my left hand is pretty dumb.
 
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oserver

Professional
Just your left hand?

With the help with my right hand, my forehand style 2 handed backhand is getting better by the day. This is why I gave up the single handed lefty forehand idea and practice completely in a short order; also give up the single handed backhand using the my right hand. Federer already gave up the idea of teaching single handed backhand to their kids.

You must like the idea to prove your lefty hand not being dumb. If so, show us you progresses.
 
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