FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Full time coach uses same hopper of dead balls all day long, 7 days a week. Stock your own hopper for the cost of one lesson. It's very annoying to practice with dead balls when paying good money for lessons.
Always bring your own hopper of balls when taking non-club lessons
- Thread starter FiddlerDog
- Start date
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
But if every match you play is with new balls that bounce higher, your calibration will be off, won't it?
Even the difference between cheap new balls and premiums make a difference. The gap between new and partially dead would be even bigger.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Williams got good despite playing with dead balls, not because of it.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
There are so many factors to consider here. Firstly, there is the level of the student to consider. With novice, advanced beginners and, possibly, even low intermediates, you want to start them out with a less lively ball so that they can initially develop their strokes with bounces that are not too high.
This is what the red, orange & green (dot) training balls are all about. Even for HS age & adult novices, I'll often start them off with the green (dot) balls so they are not initially having to deal with a lot of balls bouncing much higher than waist level.
Even as we progress to the regular pressurized (yellow) balls, a modest decrease in pressure / bounce is often desirable as we are developing strokes or various skills. A ball that bounces 80% (to 90%) of a new ball is often suitable for development.
Students can learn to deal with livelier, higher bouncing balls after they've already become comfortable with knee level & waist level bounces. Even with an 80+% ball, the feed can be adjusted to provide them with a livelier, more aggressive, higher bouncing ball.
This is what the red, orange & green (dot) training balls are all about. Even for HS age & adult novices, I'll often start them off with the green (dot) balls so they are not initially having to deal with a lot of balls bouncing much higher than waist level.
Even as we progress to the regular pressurized (yellow) balls, a modest decrease in pressure / bounce is often desirable as we are developing strokes or various skills. A ball that bounces 80% (to 90%) of a new ball is often suitable for development.
Students can learn to deal with livelier, higher bouncing balls after they've already become comfortable with knee level & waist level bounces. Even with an 80+% ball, the feed can be adjusted to provide them with a livelier, more aggressive, higher bouncing ball.
Last edited:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
As they develop, students will need to learn to adapt to ball bounce variations. Different court surfaces will cause the balls to bounce somewhat differently -- in the terms of how high balls will bounce as well as how the bounce (angle) on particular surface is affected by spin.
Variations will also be seen from one brand of ball to the next and from one ball model to the next. Some will be harder or softer than others, even when brand new. Some will be livelier than others. Standard duty balls will experience less air drag than XD balls and, as a result, fly somewhat faster (or not lose speed quite as readily). Ball variations (stiffness, internal pressure, amt of felt, etc) will also have some bearing on how the ball will interact with the strings of the racket.
Even more important than these factors is how weather will affect the flight and bounce of a tennis ball. Balls will bounce considerably lower in cold temps than in warm or hot temps. The range here can be very significant.
Balls will also fly (& bounce) differently at sea level than at higher elevations, Balls will act somewhat differently with changes in barometric pressure and with changes in humidity levels.
And, of course, players will have to adapt to widely different playing styles. Various styles may significantly affect how the ball travels thru the air and how it bounces. Some players will hit a lot of low skidding balls while others might hit with massive TS so that balls are bouncing quite high, on average. Many good, versatile adversaries will vary ball speed, spin type, rotational speed, and ball trajectory (including height over the neck and depth).
With all these factors, players will encounter a wide variation wrt bounces and ball flight. They learned to deal with moderate speeds and bounces first and then livelier balls later. With a high intermediate student, it might be perfectly fine to start off a session with balls that are bit less lively. And then, later in the session, switch off to more aggressive feeds or use fresh / new, livelier balls.
Variations will also be seen from one brand of ball to the next and from one ball model to the next. Some will be harder or softer than others, even when brand new. Some will be livelier than others. Standard duty balls will experience less air drag than XD balls and, as a result, fly somewhat faster (or not lose speed quite as readily). Ball variations (stiffness, internal pressure, amt of felt, etc) will also have some bearing on how the ball will interact with the strings of the racket.
Even more important than these factors is how weather will affect the flight and bounce of a tennis ball. Balls will bounce considerably lower in cold temps than in warm or hot temps. The range here can be very significant.
Balls will also fly (& bounce) differently at sea level than at higher elevations, Balls will act somewhat differently with changes in barometric pressure and with changes in humidity levels.
And, of course, players will have to adapt to widely different playing styles. Various styles may significantly affect how the ball travels thru the air and how it bounces. Some players will hit a lot of low skidding balls while others might hit with massive TS so that balls are bouncing quite high, on average. Many good, versatile adversaries will vary ball speed, spin type, rotational speed, and ball trajectory (including height over the neck and depth).
With all these factors, players will encounter a wide variation wrt bounces and ball flight. They learned to deal with moderate speeds and bounces first and then livelier balls later. With a high intermediate student, it might be perfectly fine to start off a session with balls that are bit less lively. And then, later in the session, switch off to more aggressive feeds or use fresh / new, livelier balls.
Last edited:
ironically, most of my students are beginner through intermediate (thru 3.5), and dead balls slow things down for them (baseically what red/orange/green balls are doing.... but more dead).
but if i'm rallying, i need to compensate with higher balls to make sure it reaches them and gets into their strike zone.
but if your coach is hitting short, and/or slicing low... dead balls will be a nightmare.
also hitting with dead balls with encourage newish folks to hit through the ball more (tendency is to slow down the stroke in an attempt to control the depth with gravity)
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
Agree. Hitting drills using dead balls is counter productive, at least for me. Now, if I'm at the net working on volleys, or hitting overheads, no big deal. But, I've brought and given recently used/lively tennis balls to a pro I worked with. Kicked his old dead balls in the corner and said let's use these.
TennisDawg
Hall of Fame
I would seriously wonder about a teaching pro that routinely uses dead flat balls.
Morch Us
Hall of Fame
Well... every shot you receive from your opponent maybe at full speed (50mph?) correct? But does that mean, all your ball feeds from coach should be at 50mph or above ? Slow and steady is better for training, even though eventually you have to "calibrate".
Except for "touch shots" training, and "full shot" training (where you try to calibrate the depth), it is more benefitial to practice with non-fresh balls. I think the key is to have consistent freshness on the balls.
It is similar to practice at "full speed feed" vs "slow speed feed". Of course on matches you do receive balls from opponent at full speed, and you have to be able to respond to them. But that does not mean ALL your training should be on "full speed" ball feeds. Infact for most "improving" players 90% of the training should be on "slow speed" feeds. Same is the case with "fresh-balls" vs "dead-balls".
Just liike in most of the feeds, during training, you want a "consistent feed", you want a "consistent feel and response" on the ball as well, so that you can put your focus on more important things in your shot. (Of course at some point there is a value on inconsistent feeds training)
The issue with most players who complain about the "dead-balls" on training is, less process orientation. Of course your shots may not look as great (since the dead balls don't go that fast... or bounce off the court as high). So if you are looking at that, instead of the process, you will be disappointed.
Now as always, there is a specific place for "full speed" feed training... or just hitting at full speed. Similarly there is always a place for new fresh ball training as well.
That being said..... there is a point where a "dead ball" is too dead for practice...
Except for "touch shots" training, and "full shot" training (where you try to calibrate the depth), it is more benefitial to practice with non-fresh balls. I think the key is to have consistent freshness on the balls.
It is similar to practice at "full speed feed" vs "slow speed feed". Of course on matches you do receive balls from opponent at full speed, and you have to be able to respond to them. But that does not mean ALL your training should be on "full speed" ball feeds. Infact for most "improving" players 90% of the training should be on "slow speed" feeds. Same is the case with "fresh-balls" vs "dead-balls".
Just liike in most of the feeds, during training, you want a "consistent feed", you want a "consistent feel and response" on the ball as well, so that you can put your focus on more important things in your shot. (Of course at some point there is a value on inconsistent feeds training)
The issue with most players who complain about the "dead-balls" on training is, less process orientation. Of course your shots may not look as great (since the dead balls don't go that fast... or bounce off the court as high). So if you are looking at that, instead of the process, you will be disappointed.
Now as always, there is a specific place for "full speed" feed training... or just hitting at full speed. Similarly there is always a place for new fresh ball training as well.
That being said..... there is a point where a "dead ball" is too dead for practice...
Last edited:
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
All day, seven days a week.
Not a big deal as long as he replaces them with fresh balls every week.
Guessing that a 1 hour private can easily be done with 75 balls. So coach can purchase a case every week.
Last edited:
