Am I handling this shot incorrectly?

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I partner with a lady. We keep having a problem. Since it came up several more times today, I wonder what can be done about it.

I am in deuce court at net. She is in the ad court at baseline (either because she just served or received). As the point progresses, opponents pop up or lob the ball up the middle.

I am at net, so I move to take that ball. Unless it is popped high enough, I will not attempt to run around my BH and hit a FH smash. Instead, I will take it as a BH high volley or BH smash. Yes, I can hit these shots -- it is not like I will botch them.

The problem arises because my partner wants me to not hit these high BH balls, as she wants to hit her FH overhead smash. I don't have a problem with that idea in theory. The problem I have is that I don't know where she is on the court. If I just let these balls go, there will be times I will be leaving her with a difficult shot or the ball will be bounced. I certainly cannot turn my head to see if she is in position to get this ball -- I kinda need to watch the ball. I also think that the player closest to the net should take every ball she can reach with a solid shot -- otherwise you wind up letting your partner take difficult balls you could have and should have handled.

Today, for instance, there were a couple of times when that high center ball went up, and I immediately went to take it as a BH smash. My partner yelled, "Mine!", but I was already in position to hit the shot. So I either hit it, or I would also call "No, mine!" after she did. I can tell she did not like this at all. I knew this when she told me she didn't like this at all.

What do you think? Should I lay off of these high BH balls? When your partner calls mine from behind you, should you always yield?
 

fruitytennis1

Professional
If no one says anything the ball is always yours
If your partner calls its your partner's
If you call it its yours
If you both call it...its yours
In general how many times in a match do you get a high sitter at the net...right between you and your partner?
 

Topaz

Legend
When I am back I say 'I'm here'...letting my partner know that if they don't have it, I'm ready to take it.

Usually I think the person at net is 'in charge', though I think your partner may have a point, especially if her fh smash is stronger than your bh smash and she moves up to the ball well. It is her job though, to let you know where she is...you shouldn't have to look back.

Thanks for the help on directions btw...boy, that was a hike!
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
When I am back I say 'I'm here'...letting my partner know that if they don't have it, I'm ready to take it.

Usually I think the person at net is 'in charge', though I think your partner may have a point, especially if her fh smash is stronger than your bh smash and she moves up to the ball well. It is her job though, to let you know where she is...you shouldn't have to look back.

Thanks for the help on directions btw...boy, that was a hike!

Yeah, that's a hike for me too. You might want to stick to matches on the west side of town. Dang.

Regarding this middle ball issue, I tend to say "I'm here if you need me" or some such. But I'd always prefer my partner to take the ball if she is closer to net unless she doesn't own that shot.

The other issue with her taking that ball is that, if I pull my racket down when she calls "Mine," I am right in her way. We might even be in an I formation.
With most of my partners, I have the opposite problem. Meaning they don't take balls when they are closer to the net, so I wind up lunging for balls that they probably should have hit. So it feels weird for someone to call me off of a shot I have lined up when they are doing it from behind me.
 

olliess

Semi-Pro
If you've got a solid shot at the net I don't see why you wouldn't take it.

If you need to back up to get the ball, it might be easier for your partner who does have the forehand smash moving forward, as Topaz said. If that's the case and (however it's decided) your partner is the one taking the overhead, you'll want to do what the pros do and get down.
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
Really depends on how deep the lob is. If it's going much past the service line, Then I don't think you running back to do a backhand smash is such a great idea. If you're not having to move much to get to it, then it's not a good idea for her to run all the way up.

The big questions are what happens when you take the ball and what happens when she takes the ball? Do what works.
 

jfish

New User
Really depends on how deep the lob is. If it's going much past the service line, Then I don't think you running back to do a backhand smash is such a great idea. If you're not having to move much to get to it, then it's not a good idea for her to run all the way up.

The big questions are what happens when you take the ball and what happens when she takes the ball? Do what works.

+1

It would be better if you know the success rate of :
what happens when you take the ball
what happens when she takes the ball
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
The rule of thumb I learned was -

IF you are closer to the net, it's yours.

If you partner wants the ahot, tell her to get to the net.
 

autumn_leaf

Hall of Fame
it's definitely better to just agree on something than to argue about it. rule of thumb for me, whoever can win the point takes it.
 

larry10s

Hall of Fame
+1

It would be better if you know the success rate of :
what happens when you take the ball
what happens when she takes the ball

hunterst post#6 gets credit
the real answer is the results
hypothetically the high ball thru the middle
if its pop up and you can reach it and hit a forcining bh volley
go for it. if its alittle to high and yes you can get your racquet on it but not hit a forcing shot you are better to let it go thru.
on a lob where there is time i would think the one with the forehand option would win the point most of the time
as for communication
its "you" or "me"
if she says me but you are closer and cant stop yourself its yours
jmho
 

rh310

Hall of Fame
Wouldn't a better place for this thread be "Tennis Tips/Instruction" rather than "Adult League & Tournament Talk" ?

Same with that thread about whether a coach's shot selection advice was correct.

Just sayin'. :)
 

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
It seems to me that at no point do I want my partner to avoid being agressive so that I could end up with a marginally better shot.

So ... as long as the closer person can hit a good shot (that they are capable of hitting) and they would not be taking an easy shot away from me, I want them to take the shot ... even if that means that sometimes we lose a point due to over-agressiveness, we are going to win many more because the net man is always looking to press the advantage and not spend time watching the ball goes by as he decides if it would have been better to have taken the ball.

Cindy, take the shot if you can hit it ....
 

jc4.0

Professional
element of surprise

If you're comfortable (and frequently successful) hitting any shot at the net, including this one, then take the shot. If you want to avoid confusion, call "mine" before hitting it - or just have the discussion with your partner before the match/set. I think it's always advantageous for the net player to hit an aggressive volley or smash in doubles, as opposed to waiting for the partner behind to hit it, it takes time away from your opponents. The key here is, can you hit a really great shot - or just get the ball back in court? The player who is capable of hitting the better shot should hit this ball ideally, doesn't matter backhand or forehand.
 

GPB

Professional
The player who is capable of hitting the better shot should hit this ball ideally, doesn't matter backhand or forehand.

Agreed. If you get the ball back in play (don't flub it, but don't force it either) when your partner could have whacked the crap outta it, you just took the advantage away from your side of the court.

Generally, take the shot. Better for the netman to be aggressive. But IF your partner calls for the shot with plenty of time for you to get out of the way, AND if the partner's overhead will be better than a high backhand, THEN let them take it.
 

Nellie

Hall of Fame
The netperson is in charge because they cannot see the person behind. The netperson should allows hit the ball unless called off by the partner. You have to assume the shot is yours and move to take it. Otherwise, if she (your partner) has come to the net, but you let the ball go thinking that she will take the shot - you lose the point. Even if you delay to hit the ball, by thinking whether the shot is yours to take, you will likely lose the point.
 

polski

Semi-Pro
I always hope the cross court player covers the middle of the court. That way, the down the line person can cover the line/alley. The short lobs go to whoever can put it away the easiest.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I cannot be sure what happened on these particular BH overheads but they were not the weak ones where you just wave it back over.

I gotta figure out a way to play better with this partner. Like, it would be a good idea to start calling more balls with"mine". But if I start doing that, I will also start saying "you" when I decide not to take a ball. And she hates hates hates when I say you. I have dealt with that by just trying not to say much during points. I am not sure how long it is going to take me to train my brain for this.

As for why I am talking about this issue here . . . Hey, this is the league board and this happened during a league match!
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
I cannot be sure what happened on these particular BH overheads but they were not the weak ones where you just wave it back over.

I gotta figure out a way to play better with this partner. Like, it would be a good idea to start calling more balls with"mine". But if I start doing that, I will also start saying "you" when I decide not to take a ball. And she hates hates hates when I say you. I have dealt with that by just trying not to say much during points. I am not sure how long it is going to take me to train my brain for this.

As for why I am talking about this issue here . . . Hey, this is the league board and this happened during a league match!

This woman sounds very touchy. She gets angry if you take a backhand smash at the net, she gets angry if she calls a shot and you say that you've got it, and she gets angry if you call a shot her's. She needs to recognize that all of that is a part of tennis.

Maybe if you said "help" instead of "you" that would be less offensive to her?

As far as the original question, I'm still wondering how deep the lobs go. That would pretty much determine whose ball it was.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I guess I would say are shortish. I mean, I am no Isner. It it is really deep I am not going to be able to reach it at all as a BH.
 

Off The Wall

Semi-Pro
I partner with a lady. We keep having a problem. Since it came up several more times today, I wonder what can be done about it.

I am in deuce court at net. She is in the ad court at baseline (either because she just served or received). As the point progresses, opponents pop up or lob the ball up the middle.

I am at net, so I move to take that ball. Unless it is popped high enough, I will not attempt to run around my BH and hit a FH smash. Instead, I will take it as a BH high volley or BH smash. Yes, I can hit these shots -- it is not like I will botch them.

The problem arises because my partner wants me to not hit these high BH balls, as she wants to hit her FH overhead smash. I don't have a problem with that idea in theory. The problem I have is that I don't know where she is on the court. If I just let these balls go, there will be times I will be leaving her with a difficult shot or the ball will be bounced. I certainly cannot turn my head to see if she is in position to get this ball -- I kinda need to watch the ball. I also think that the player closest to the net should take every ball she can reach with a solid shot -- otherwise you wind up letting your partner take difficult balls you could have and should have handled.

Today, for instance, there were a couple of times when that high center ball went up, and I immediately went to take it as a BH smash. My partner yelled, "Mine!", but I was already in position to hit the shot. So I either hit it, or I would also call "No, mine!" after she did. I can tell she did not like this at all. I knew this when she told me she didn't like this at all.

What do you think? Should I lay off of these high BH balls? When your partner calls mine from behind you, should you always yield?


The first person who can hit the ball usually should.

In your case, if both of your opponents are back, let the ball go to your partner's forehand. If they have a netperson, take the shot...by that netperson. If your partner doesn't see the logic, explain it to her.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
You know, I am trying to think about when and whether I will call my partner at net off of a shot (or discuss it with them). I play with a different lady who botches a lot of poaches. Usually, if my partner misses a poach I tell them to keep it up. Well, with this lady I told her to let the low, hard ones go but take anything above the net. That approach ("You take the high ones and I'll take the low ones") seems to have fixed the problem.
 

Spokewench

Semi-Pro
Lobs or balls to the middle. These require talking, a lot! Usually, my general reaction is that if the person at the net wants to take a ball, it is theirs to take. They must use their judgment to make the decision of whether they are balanced or not. If they are not, they should let the ball go through to their back player. I understand your concern that the person may not be there to take that ball or back you up. That is why, you must talk a lot. I will back you up for a shot like that and will say I'm here, I've got you or some such thing. That way, you know I am there if you cannot get balanced to take the overhead. I take the ball and we switch if needed.

This is something that I find 3.5 ladies have a hard time doing (that is talking). So, if I'm the back person, I always say if I'm there; the problem does occur when your back person does not like to talk and it is hard to make them talk!

I guess that just takes practicing with your partner more
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
This is something that I find 3.5 ladies have a hard time doing (that is talking). So, if I'm the back person, I always say if I'm there; the problem does occur when your back person does not like to talk and it is hard to make them talk!

I guess that just takes practicing with your partner more

Last summer, my pro decided all of us clinic ladies needed to learn to cover lobs better. He wanted to move us away from backing each other up all the time.

I was certainly on board with this -- backing up your partner causes all sorts of problems. If a lob is floating up and my partner says nothing either way about who is going to hit it, I have to shadow back enough that I could get it if she bails. If she then hits it (probably a weak shot if she was being indecisive about whether to hit it), then my whole side of the court is open.

Anyway, he starts working on this with us. The idea was the lobbed player was to make an immediate decision about calling "Mine" or "Switch." The baseliner was not to back up the lobbed player unless she called for help, and if the lobbed player was going to smash the baseliner was to join her at net. Sounds simple, eh?

It was Keystone Kops all the way.

One lady would never call a switch no matter how clear it was she would never reach the ball. Balls bounced unplayed behind her.

Another lady would never call the ball and hit it, no matter whether it was about to land on her head. She called a switch every time, leaving the partner to cross and play a weaker shot.

And then there was me. My problem was that I wouldn't call a switch and instead tried to overhead everything, no matter how out of position I was.

We got better, but it's still a mess. If we can ever learn to execute this stuff, we will beat a lot of people!
 

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
As I've said a number of times...

I partner with a lady. We keep having a problem. Since it came up several more times today, I wonder what can be done about it.

I am in deuce court at net. She is in the ad court at baseline (either because she just served or received). As the point progresses, opponents pop up or lob the ball up the middle.

I am at net, so I move to take that ball. Unless it is popped high enough, I will not attempt to run around my BH and hit a FH smash. Instead, I will take it as a BH high volley or BH smash. Yes, I can hit these shots -- it is not like I will botch them.

The problem arises because my partner wants me to not hit these high BH balls, as she wants to hit her FH overhead smash. I don't have a problem with that idea in theory. The problem I have is that I don't know where she is on the court. If I just let these balls go, there will be times I will be leaving her with a difficult shot or the ball will be bounced. I certainly cannot turn my head to see if she is in position to get this ball -- I kinda need to watch the ball. I also think that the player closest to the net should take every ball she can reach with a solid shot -- otherwise you wind up letting your partner take difficult balls you could have and should have handled.

Today, for instance, there were a couple of times when that high center ball went up, and I immediately went to take it as a BH smash. My partner yelled, "Mine!", but I was already in position to hit the shot. So I either hit it, or I would also call "No, mine!" after she did. I can tell she did not like this at all. I knew this when she told me she didn't like this at all.

What do you think? Should I lay off of these high BH balls? When your partner calls mine from behind you, should you always yield?

...one of the main keys to a successful doubles partnership is that the two partners get along and communicate with each so they can agree on a winning strategy for the team. It isn't a question of what one player does in any situation does, it's how the team responds. In general, if you're closer and can take the ball, you take it.

You have, as I'm sure you're aware, a lot of instances where you seem to get partnered up with somebody who is, to put it succinctly, suboptimal for what you envision your team doing on the court. My advice is, skip those occasions. Lose NTRP leagues. Find a partner that you can really partner with, discuss and agree on a strategy you can both live with, play some practice matches and fine tune, and then go play some tournaments. I think you'll find it a lot more enjoyable than pick-up doubles with somebody who wants to play the game a different way than you do...
 

jester911

Rookie
I have no idea how well you can hit a BH overhead or volley or how well your partner can hit a smash but all things being equal an overhead smash will have a much better chance of winning the point out right than a BH overhead or volley. Of course it depends on how deep the ball is and both of your positions relative to the ball.
But if your moving backwards to hit that shot and your partner is coming forward her shot assuming she makes it will be a much more offensive shot than yours.

I play at the 4.5 level and play a lot of doubles and with that scenario I will almost always take that ball. I don't know any players at my level that can hit BH overhead better than my regular overhead.
 

Spokewench

Semi-Pro
Anyway, he starts working on this with us. The idea was the lobbed player was to make an immediate decision about calling "Mine" or "Switch." The baseliner was not to back up the lobbed player unless she called for help, and if the lobbed player was going to smash the baseliner was to join her at net. Sounds simple, eh?

It was Keystone Kops all the way.

One lady would never call a switch no matter how clear it was she would never reach the ball. Balls bounced unplayed behind her.

Another lady would never call the ball and hit it, no matter whether it was about to land on her head. She called a switch every time, leaving the partner to cross and play a weaker shot.

And then there was me. My problem was that I wouldn't call a switch and instead tried to overhead everything, no matter how out of position I was.

We got better, but it's still a mess. If we can ever learn to execute this stuff, we will beat a lot of people!

Yeah, I've done clinics like this too where everyone looks like a fool for a while! We did this type of drill just before going to sectionals and it really started to work well; but not all of us were 3.5s; we had 4.0s and 4.5s doing the drills so that made it easier to get the hang of it!
 

LuckyR

Legend
I have never seen you play but after a lot of threads I have a feel (of dubious accuracy) of what your situation is like. IMO, I would not take the shot from your position. Of course you have every right to take the shot, I just would choose to let my partner hit the shot. Here's why. My read is that although you are unlikely to miss your shot, your partner is likely to either hit it in the air with her FH for a much more difficult shot for your opposition to return and even if she hits a FH groundstroke (if she has to bounce it), it is still likely to be more difficult for your opposition to return than a high BH volley from the middle.
 

OrangePower

Legend
You have, as I'm sure you're aware, a lot of instances where you seem to get partnered up with somebody who is, to put it succinctly, suboptimal for what you envision your team doing on the court. My advice is, skip those occasions. Lose NTRP leagues. Find a partner that you can really partner with, discuss and agree on a strategy you can both live with, play some practice matches and fine tune, and then go play some tournaments. I think you'll find it a lot more enjoyable than pick-up doubles with somebody who wants to play the game a different way than you do...

Don't you think that the ability to arrive at a "working agreement" with a non-regular partner is in itself a skill worth having?
 

Angle Queen

Professional
*sigh*

Gosh, am I spoiled by having a regular partner. These, generally, are no-brainers for us. But it's definitely situational. Usually, they are left...for her...in the ad-court...as a forehand. It's got to be really short and I've got to be in prime position to hit that shot.

So...when I'm playing with someone different, I'll usually tell them before we start playing...I'm going to leave most of the up-the-middle shots for them. If we have this discussion before we start, sometimes...they'll reply...no, please, you take them (I'm a strong net player and my reputation precedes me...it seems). And sometimes, the ad-player is strong too...but for whatever reason, they have confidence issues or know the opponents well. Who knows. But in general, if I have to take that shot...it better darn well be a winner because afterwards, I've been pulled toward the center of the court...as has my ad-side partner (covering because they are following the path of the ball or are unsure who's going to take it). That leaves both alleys...WIDE open.

Oh the fun of doubles!!!
 

Angle Queen

Professional
Don't you think that the ability to arrive at a "working agreement" with a non-regular partner is in itself a skill worth having?
Too bad I didn't see this before my reply ^^.

During season, I play mostly with the same (wonderful!) partner. But in the off-season, we've both had the opportunity and pleasure to play with others. It makes me realize...just how good I've got it with her...and how to work with those...I don't know so well.

Reminds me of the saying...if you love something...set it free.
 

Rui

Semi-Pro
...But in general, if I have to take that shot...it better darn well be a winner because afterwards, I've been pulled toward the center of the court...as has my ad-side partner (covering because they are following the path of the ball or are unsure who's going to take it). That leaves both alleys...WIDE open.

Oh the fun of doubles!!!

It shouldn't be too much trouble. In this case, you'll always hit away from the person who hit it. Therefore, your alley will not be in danger. Your partner will follow the ball back to her side.
 

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
Yes, it is...

Don't you think that the ability to arrive at a "working agreement" with a non-regular partner is in itself a skill worth having?

...if you want to play doubles. I don't play much doubles any more, because it's a lot of overhead to come up with just such a working agreement. I'm 62, have a 5.0 game, and am in good enough shape to play Men's Open Singles, which is the challenge I want. Doing so, what I have to think about is really easy, to whit:

- What should we do on the first serve? No problem...it's singles! I don't have a partner, think I'll go with a wide slice in the deuce court.

- We're facing Lob Queen Jane!"..you know, the one who always lobs off the first serve, and then who is going to go for the lob, if the server stays back, and if not...? ..Answer: No problem...here's a wide slice to the deuce court, Lob Queen, and if it comes back, I'll deal with it, no need to consult with my non-existent partner...

- We're both at the net, the passing shot comes down the middle, it's middle height, moderate topspin, my partner, in the ad court, has, maybe, kinda sort of, a better forehand volley, but my movement skills are better so maybe I can get to the ball quicker...who takes the volley? Answer: No problem, I'm the only person on the court, so I'll take it and hit a winner with whichever side volunteers first...

So, you get the joke. If you want to play pick-up doubles...and win...there is that, because if you don't care about the outcome, it really doesn't matter what you do, right? But if you want to play pick-up doubles, and succeed, then, yeah, coming up with a working agreement is probably essential.

For me..."coming up with a working agreement" sounds too much like the corporate America I've been running with for the last 30 years. When I step out on a tennis court, I'd rather you know, play tennis, which is why I mostly play singles, except for next summer, when I'm going to see if I can play some Men's Open Doubles with my ski racing coach, who is 43...and I'm 62...but, on the other hand, he has 60 FIS point in slalom, if you get that one, and I'm not far behind, and, additionally, he can hit a 125 mph serve (and I'm not far behind), and, additionally, he ran a 10.7 100 meters in high school, and a 22.8 200 meters, and, additionally, he was an alternate on the 1988 Olympic Track Bike Team, and additionally, we basically think when we step on the court, we're the best team out there...

...that kind of thing, singles or doubles...
 

larry10s

Hall of Fame
...if you want to play doubles. I don't play much doubles any more, because it's a lot of overhead to come up with just such a working agreement. I'm 62, have a 5.0 game, and am in good enough shape to play Men's Open Singles, which is the challenge I want. Doing so, what I have to think about is really easy, to whit:

- What should we do on the first serve? No problem...it's singles! I don't have a partner, think I'll go with a wide slice in the deuce court.

- We're facing Lob Queen Jane!"..you know, the one who always lobs off the first serve, and then who is going to go for the lob, if the server stays back, and if not...? ..Answer: No problem...here's a wide slice to the deuce court, Lob Queen, and if it comes back, I'll deal with it, no need to consult with my non-existent partner...

- We're both at the net, the passing shot comes down the middle, it's middle height, moderate topspin, my partner, in the ad court, has, maybe, kinda sort of, a better forehand volley, but my movement skills are better so maybe I can get to the ball quicker...who takes the volley? Answer: No problem, I'm the only person on the court, so I'll take it and hit a winner with whichever side volunteers first...

So, you get the joke. If you want to play pick-up doubles...and win...there is that, because if you don't care about the outcome, it really doesn't matter what you do, right? But if you want to play pick-up doubles, and succeed, then, yeah, coming up with a working agreement is probably essential.

For me..."coming up with a working agreement" sounds too much like the corporate America I've been running with for the last 30 years. When I step out on a tennis court, I'd rather you know, play tennis, which is why I mostly play singles, except for next summer, when I'm going to see if I can play some Men's Open Doubles with my ski racing coach, who is 43...and I'm 62...but, on the other hand, he has 60 FIS point in slalom, if you get that one, and I'm not far behind, and, additionally, he can hit a 125 mph serve (and I'm not far behind), and, additionally, he ran a 10.7 100 meters in high school, and a 22.8 200 meters, and, additionally, he was an alternate on the 1988 Olympic Track Bike Team, and additionally, we basically think when we step on the court, we're the best team out there...

...that kind of thing, singles or doubles...

the issue to me is the level
if you as a 5.0 paired up with a 4.5 and both of you knew how to play doubles you wouldnt need this conversation.
both of you would know where to be on the court
which ball is "yours or mine" or call the iffy ones
when to come foward
when to be 2 back
use hand signals etc.
its at low 4.0 and below and/or when playing with a singles specialist that these problems develop.
on saturdays i play with guys who are part of our clubs usta 4.0 and 4.5 team
they routinely make it to sectionals sometimes beyond.
although on any given saturday anyone can play with anyone
(the team captain puts the pairings together.
we play 3 rounds of 9 games and and change partners and opponents each time)
we dont have these problems.
yes in singles the answer is easy because the ball is always yours.
but doubles has its own set of skills, problems, and solutions which many of us enjoy
sorry for the digression
 

bcart1991

Professional
If you're even moderately experienced in doubles, much of this talk is completely unnecessary. Reactions to many of these situations are understood before the first ball is struck.

I used to prefer doubles to singles, because I had too much time to think about what shot to hit next - too many options. I've gotten over that this past year, thankfully.
 

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
I think I've kind of wandered everyone off the subject...

I partner with a lady. We keep having a problem. Since it came up several more times today, I wonder what can be done about it.

I am in deuce court at net. She is in the ad court at baseline (either because she just served or received). As the point progresses, opponents pop up or lob the ball up the middle.

I am at net, so I move to take that ball. Unless it is popped high enough, I will not attempt to run around my BH and hit a FH smash. Instead, I will take it as a BH high volley or BH smash. Yes, I can hit these shots -- it is not like I will botch them.

The problem arises because my partner wants me to not hit these high BH balls, as she wants to hit her FH overhead smash. I don't have a problem with that idea in theory. The problem I have is that I don't know where she is on the court. If I just let these balls go, there will be times I will be leaving her with a difficult shot or the ball will be bounced. I certainly cannot turn my head to see if she is in position to get this ball -- I kinda need to watch the ball. I also think that the player closest to the net should take every ball she can reach with a solid shot -- otherwise you wind up letting your partner take difficult balls you could have and should have handled.

Today, for instance, there were a couple of times when that high center ball went up, and I immediately went to take it as a BH smash. My partner yelled, "Mine!", but I was already in position to hit the shot. So I either hit it, or I would also call "No, mine!" after she did. I can tell she did not like this at all. I knew this when she told me she didn't like this at all.

What do you think? Should I lay off of these high BH balls? When your partner calls mine from behind you, should you always yield?

...so let me go back to the original post and make some comments:

- Where this started was "High backhand volley or my partner's overhead?" I don't think there's a magic answer for all situations. Tactically, it's whatever works best...meaning, the approach that, percentage-wise, wins the most points...for a particular team. Kind of true in a larger sense. Team member A loves the net and would spend his or her life up there, Team member B is a baseline bandit and only goes to the net to shake hands at the end of the match, given a choice. What to do? This situation, of course, is not necessarily an all or nothing. It can be "on this type of point, A is at the net, and B isn't, on this type of point, both are back, and if both players on the opposing team have fallen down and are lying on their backs, I think we can agree that we should both be at the net."

- The "I think we can agree" is my next point. In the above scenario, Cindy thinks the backhand overhead is the right answer, her partner thinks it's her overhead...and, pointedly, Cindy's partner doesn't like it any other way. What to do? Again, no magic answer. If this is just a pick up doubles match, and playing the game and having a decent hit is the objective, then, to answer Cindy's question, yes, she probably ought to lose the backhand volley and just say "Right, Your Regnancy, definitely yours!" every time her partner says "Mine!"

If, however, winning is the objective, and neither player wants to give an inch...well, it ain't a doubles team any more, it's two singles players temporarily emprisoned on the same court, and the answer, after the match, is for Cindy to say something polite along the lines of "Gee, Brenda, that was a blast, and you're absolutely right about the overheads, but it's time for me to return to the planet Earth and find a partner with canines less than six inches long, so, see you around the arts quad...and if I see you on the other side of the net, you are definitely going to see the business end of my high backhand volley!" This is just an example, I'm not picking on Cindy, her question is legit, this kind of situation happens to a lot of doubles teams, and she's far too skilled and polite to sink to the depths I'm suggesting...but you get the joke. Some partnerships just aren't in the cards, so you play the match out and drive on elsewhere.
 
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Rui

Semi-Pro
If every time your partner yells "mine" and you turn around and she's right there, you might let her have them.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
clacking racquets on a ball down the middle is not such a bad
thing. It is most assuredly better than looking at each other after the ball sailed right through the two of you with each of you having the "I thought YOU had it" look on your face.
 

magmasilk

New User
My partner yelled, "Mine!", but I was already in position to hit the shot. So I either hit it, or I would also call "No, mine!"

I think net person should plan to take any volley they can hit aggressively. However, if the "baseline" player who can read the "net" player's position and thus knows who has the "better" shot ... they should have veto on who takes the shot ... especially OH vs. BH OH.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
The main overriding criteria for "who takes this shot" is WHO CAN PUT THE BALL AWAY with one swing. Or at least hit the more forcing shot. Right of way be damned, net or back who cares, my forehand vs your backhand be forgotten, it's a simple matter of WHO CAN HIT THE STRONGER SHOT. That person should hit the ball, and you should know who that person is, because he's either you or he's on your team.
 

Tennisman912

Semi-Pro
Cindysphinx,

My best advice follows along with what jester is saying here. The net person (you in this case) should hit any ball they can be aggressive with (read moving forward or diagonally forward). If one of the two options I just mentioned is present, they (you) should attack the ball. By aggressive I mean you either put that shot away for a winner or hurt them so bad with it, you will have a sitter for the next shot. If you can do that consistently with a high BH volley, definitely take it. But if you have to hit it defensively, you are better off letting it go 99%+ of the time IMHO. A BH volley or BH overhead where you are backing up to hit it (or if your momentum is carry you backward) will be weak and you will set your opponents up when you only weakly get it back and they will hit is to the open court where you just were. Your partner is in a much better position to be aggressive with the weak shot either stepping in to hit a FH or an overhead as the case may be. Either way, either of those shots will work out better than your high, weak BH reply.

This should hold true regardless of the level. But as the players improve, they can do much more with a high BH, especially a bit off balance or moving backward (although they are still usually better off letting their partner get it. A lot of this depends on the position of the ball. Your partner should never be out of position to not back you up (if you let it go) to a weak reply/lob back up the middle. If they can’t handle that shot, they are out of position IMHO (again we don’t know all the details but this should hold you in good stead).

Good luck.

TM
 

Dave M

Hall of Fame
I'd never call "no mine" to my partner who could see where i was where they were and therefore had a better idea of what was going on than the person at the net. Whenever possible and all things equal the person moving forward should take the shot not the one backing up.
 

spaceman_spiff

Hall of Fame
Following up with what Dave said, I think soccer tactics help in tennis situations like this.

In soccer, you are taught that the forwards should listen to what the midfielders are telling them, both groups should listen to what the defenders are telling them, and everyone should listen to what the goalkeeper is telling them. The basic idea is that the person behind you can see more of the play and, therefore, is in a better position to judge the situation; so, everyone should listen to the person behind him.

I follow this in tennis as well. If both players can reach the ball, then I feel the back person should be responsible for deciding who is in a better position to hit an attacking shot. This is because he/she is in a better position to judge the play than the partner in front.

So, if my partner is in front of me and looks to be stretched on a shot I can hit comfortably, I'll call for it. If he/she looks comfortable, I'll keep quiet. When I'm at net and I'm stretched, I'll move to the ball unless my partner has called for it or I'm absolutely sure he/she is in a better position (usually, I can judge the position by the sound of the footsteps). But, the instant my partner calls for it, I back off because I trust he/she is in a better position to judge the situation.
 
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hcelizondo

New User
*sigh*

Gosh, am I spoiled by having a regular partner. These, generally, are no-brainers for us. But it's definitely situational. Usually, they are left...for her...in the ad-court...as a forehand. It's got to be really short and I've got to be in prime position to hit that shot.



Following up with what Dave said, I think soccer tactics help in tennis situations like this.

So, if my partner is in front of me and looks to be stretched on a shot I can hit comfortably, I'll call for it. If he/she looks comfortable, I'll keep quiet. When I'm at net and I'm stretched, I'll move to the ball unless my partner has called for it or I'm absolutely sure he/she is in a better position (usually, I can judge the position by the sound of the footsteps). But, the instant my partner calls for it, I back off because I trust he/she is in a better position to judge the situation.

That's right. I mean it really depends on how deep the lob is. But according to Cindi's description there are several reasons why the back player should hit the ball or at least make a decision about it:

* Back payer moves forward - Net player has to move backwards to hit the ball.
* Back player can see Net player and the ball. Net player can only see the ball.
* Back player can hit a FH smash, Net player BH smash or high volley.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
None of that strategy crap matters.
The only thing that does matter is this.... can Cindy hit a more forcing shot than her partner, given she's hitting a high backhand overhead while retreating and giving up court coverage while her opponent is moving forwards on a forehand overhead with good court positioning.
Only her shot's effectiveness matters here.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
None of that strategy crap matters.
The only thing that does matter is this.... can Cindy hit a more forcing shot than her partner, given she's hitting a high backhand overhead while retreating and giving up court coverage while her opponent is moving forwards on a forehand overhead with good court positioning.
Only her shot's effectiveness matters here.

Who said anything about retreating?

It seems obvious if I am retreating, then the ball is deep enough for my partner to overhead, or I will hit a relatively weak shot.

The situation that is causing us some distress is when I am set up to hit a good BH volley/smash. Believe me, if I am retreating for a high OHBH smash and I hear "Mine," I would be relieved to let my partner take it.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Aren't you talking semantics and argueing for the sake of winning an argument here?
RESULTS is the only thing that counts. If you can hit a forcing 2hbh overhead, then hit the ball. If you poop it back and your opponents get a good look at a passing shot, let it go to your partner's forehand overhead.
Simple.
 

jester911

Rookie
Who said anything about retreating?

It seems obvious if I am retreating, then the ball is deep enough for my partner to overhead, or I will hit a relatively weak shot.

The situation that is causing us some distress is when I am set up to hit a good BH volley/smash. Believe me, if I am retreating for a high OHBH smash and I hear "Mine," I would be relieved to let my partner take it.

From your description of it then you should already be hitting the ball before your partner has a chance to. If your not moving back and are already in position for the shot then unless she is standing on top of you she won't even reach the ball before you have already hit it.

I have never seen you play but I have never seen a 3.5 player that could hit a "good BH overhead"
I am not saying you can't do it. I have to say I am skeptical.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
Of course, the question becomes....can your server hit her forehand overhead stronger than you can hit your backhand overhead?
Isn't that the key to your answer?
Remember, when you poach center to take your backhand overhead, you open up your team's entire DTL side for your opposition.
When your partner takes the short overhead, both of you are in position to respond to a possible return.
 

Rui

Semi-Pro
The DTL won't be open because no doubles player above a 3.0 would ever hit it back to the returner.
 
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