Am I in danger of being DQ'd?

[sillyrabbit]

Here is my record at 3.0 men's adult. This is my first year of play and I self-rated.

Lose 6-4, 6-3 #2 Singles 3.0
Win 4-6, 6-2, 1-0 #2 Singles 3.0
Win 6-3, 6-3 #2 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-3, 7-5 #2 Doubles 3.0
Lose 6-3, 6-3 #2 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-2, 6-0 #2 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-0, 6-0 #1 Singles 3.0

And my record in a recent ntrp tourney.

Lose 4-6; 6-4; 7-6(8) Finals NTRP Men's 3.5 Doubles
Win 4-6; 6-1; 1-0 Semifinals NTRP Men's 3.5 Doubles

Win 6-3; 6-1 Round 16 NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles
Win 6-3; 6-3 Quarterfinals NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles
Win 6-1; 6-0 Semifinals NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles
Lose 6-2; 6-4 Finals NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles


What do you all think? Am I at risk and how should I play out the rest of the season?

 

[jonnythan]

I see no reason to think you'd be DQed if you continue like this. You'll almost certainly get rated up at the end of the season though.

 

[J_R_B]

Here is my record at 3.0 men's adult. This is my first year of play and I self-rated.

Lose 6-4, 6-3 #2 Singles 3.0
Win 4-6, 6-2, 1-0 #2 Singles 3.0
Win 6-3, 6-3 #2 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-3, 7-5 #2 Doubles 3.0
Lose 6-3, 6-3 #2 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-2, 6-0 #2 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-0, 6-0 #1 Singles 3.0

And my record in a recent ntrp tourney.

Lose 4-6; 6-4; 7-6(8) Finals NTRP Men's 3.5 Doubles
Win 4-6; 6-1; 1-0 Semifinals NTRP Men's 3.5 Doubles

Win 6-3; 6-1 Round 16 NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles
Win 6-3; 6-3 Quarterfinals NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles
Win 6-1; 6-0 Semifinals NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles
Lose 6-2; 6-4 Finals NTRP Men's 3.0 Singles


What do you all think? Am I at risk and how should I play out the rest of the season?

It's highly unlikely. Tournament matches do not generate strikes. The only match that looks like a potential strike to me is the double bagel at #1 singles.

 

[Jim A]

I doubt it. Intermountain CO doesn't factor in tournament results until the end of year.

If you are going to Districts that can be an issue since they run DNTRP after each match. However I will say it seems that the overall level here at 3.0/3.5 is a little lower in comparison to the other sections.

As a 3.0S in 2009, I went 13-1 between league/twilight and my only loss to another 3.0S and neither of us were DQ'd midseason. I won my 2 Districts matches although I missed it for Twilight when injured. The 1-2 players I saw DQ'd were winning 0-1 most of their matches. Typically I lost between around 6 games per match with a couple beatdowns and 1 that went 3 sets playing at 1 Singles

 

[jonnythan]

FWIW, one of the guys on my 3.0 team got DQed with this line:

3.0 #2 Singles W 5-7, 6-1, 1-0
3.0 #1 Doubles W 6-3, 6-2
3.0 #2 Singles L 3-6, 6-4, 1-0

3.5 #3 Doubles L 6-4, 0-6, 1-0
3.5 #3 Doubles W 7-5, 6-1
3.5 #3 Doubles W 3-6, 6-4, 1-0
3.5 #3 Doubles W 6-1, 6-2

 

[Jim A]

he got DQ'd because he was playing "up" in 3.5 as well. That is the easiest way to get the DQ.

In Intermountain/CO you can only play 1 level/season so it prevents that from happening, the whole playing on 2 teams. I think its a good rule personally. When you step on a court you want to play someone at your level, not someone else looking to get some experience.

 

[jonnythan]

I know, that's part of my point. He got DQed because he was winning at 3.5 league level - and it took several wins even at 3.5 for that to happen.

 

[sillyrabbit]

So I played my second to last league match on Wednesday and won 6-2, 6-1 at #2 singles.

If I understand correctly, I can be DQ'd throughout the playoffs? If I continue to win, but don't give out any bagels, I should be okay!?

p.s. I hate that this is even an issue. I get that people need to be placed in the appropriate categories, but this is taking all the fun out of playing on a team. I really don't care about myself...it's the guys on the team that I don't want to let down. There needs to be a middle step...like an automatic bump-up at the end of the league instead of a 3 strikes and you're out system. It could even be indicated in ntrp so opponents can feel better about being beaten by someone guaranteed to move up at the end of the season.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

So I played my second to last league match on Wednesday and won 6-2, 6-1 at #2 singles.

If I understand correctly, I can be DQ'd throughout the playoffs? If I continue to win, but don't give out any bagels, I should be okay!?

IF you continue to play you can continue to generate strikes. If you soundly beat guys at the top of the level, and your current dynamic rating is at the top of the level you could earn strikes and be DQ'd. However at this point if you are dq'd, then only you winning matches matches at the sectional level are reversed.

I would guess you are probalbly alright and should just play your game. It does not look like you are the type of player the USTA targets with these rules ...

 

[goran_ace]

yeah don't worry about being DQ'ed but count on being bumped up next season

 

[shogun90]

Our #1 singles in 3.0 (self-rated) has the following record:
6-0, 6-1
6-3, 4-6, 2-1
7-5, 6-1
7-6, 4-6, 3-0
6-1, 6-0
6-1, 7-5
6-2, 6-0
6-0, 6-1

Do you think we have to worry about him DQ'ing? We have clinched our flight.

 

[beernutz]

Our #1 singles in 3.0 (self-rated) has the following record:
6-0, 6-1
6-3, 4-6, 2-1
7-5, 6-1
7-6, 4-6, 3-0
6-1, 6-0
6-1, 7-5
6-2, 6-0
6-0, 6-1

Do you think we have to worry about him DQ'ing? We have clinched our flight.

What do the 2-1 and 3-0 scores designate?

 

[storypeddler]

People have to clearly understand how the USTA figures these things. Winning big and even winning big a lot don't necessarily mean you will be DQ'ed. It depends on who you are beating. For example, if you are playing sing;es in a 3.0 league, and you go 8-0, all in straight sets, but all your opponents are 2.5 guys with .500 league records who are playing up, your wins are much less damaging than if you were beating other 3.0 players who are also winning a fair number of matches. The computer is looking for players who have self-rated at one level, yet are clearly and consistently beating players who have a higher dynamic rating than they do. That is a clear sign that they have rated themselves too low and are really better than they have classified themselves. Those players get red-flagged fairly quickly and usually DQ'ed. However, if you are truly a 3.0 player, but maybe one of the best of the 3.0 division, you are less likely to be DQ'ed during the season, but fairly likely to be bumped up to the next level at year's end.

 

[shogun90]

What do the 2-1 and 3-0 scores designate?

Those are the 3rd set scores when time ran out. The 2-1 score, was decided by a Koman Tiebreaker.

 

[J_R_B]

People have to clearly understand how the USTA figures these things. Winning big and even winning big a lot don't necessarily mean you will be DQ'ed. It depends on who you are beating. For example, if you are playing sing;es in a 3.0 league, and you go 8-0, all in straight sets, but all your opponents are 2.5 guys with .500 league records who are playing up, your wins are much less damaging than if you were beating other 3.0 players who are also winning a fair number of matches. The computer is looking for players who have self-rated at one level, yet are clearly and consistently beating players who have a higher dynamic rating than they do. That is a clear sign that they have rated themselves too low and are really better than they have classified themselves. Those players get red-flagged fairly quickly and usually DQ'ed. However, if you are truly a 3.0 player, but maybe one of the best of the 3.0 division, you are less likely to be DQ'ed during the season, but fairly likely to be bumped up to the next level at year's end.

This is all true, but my experience has been that margin of victory is more important than opponents' rating in the algorithm. There was a guy DQ'd from my team last year who won his first 4 matches with 2 games or less lost. All of these matches were against either recent bump ups with marginal records at the lower level or guys at level who hadn't won a match in years. In other words, guys who you'd think would have the lowest ratings in the league at the level, but that didn't matter, he got strikes for them anyway. The line they give you that "a guy at the top of a level should beat a guy at the bottom by 6-0 6-0" is a bunch of bull-hooey when it comes to self-rated strikes. If you cream people, you will strike out, even if the people you cream are bottom of the barrel.

 

[storypeddler]

This is all true, but my experience has been that margin of victory is more important than opponents' rating in the algorithm. There was a guy DQ'd from my team last year who won his first 4 matches with 2 games or less lost. All of these matches were against either recent bump ups with marginal records at the lower level or guys at level who hadn't won a match in years. In other words, guys who you'd think would have the lowest ratings in the league at the level, but that didn't matter, he got strikes for them anyway. The line they give you that "a guy at the top of a level should beat a guy at the bottom by 6-0 6-0" is a bunch of bull-hooey when it comes to self-rated strikes. If you cream people, you will strike out, even if the people you cream are bottom of the barrel.

Well, that may very well be true. However, I've never heard anyone official say that a top-of-the-level player should beat a bottom-of-the-level player 6-0, 6-0. We all know that there is some overlap in levels depending on the situation, the style of play, conditioning, etc. On any given afternoon, a 3.5 guy playing well can beat a 4.0 guy who is playing poorly. If I saw a 4.0 player consistently beating every 3.5 player he meets by 6-0, 6-0 scores, I would strongly argue that either the 3.5 is rated above his skill level or else, more likely, the 4.0 rated player is rated too low. There are skill differences in the range of a single level, but not so much that someone should consistently whitewash the others in his level. If you are rated 4.0 and yet can beat any 3.5 player you meet, 6-0, 6-0, anytime you want, as often as you want, you are almost certainly a 4.5 player. Even the USTA/NTRP rating guidelines acknowledge that levels bleed across lines to some degree and have some gray area. Total dominance like you are describing, especially when it happens over and over, usually indicates a player playing below proper rating level.

 

[J_R_B]

Well, that may very well be true. However, I've never heard anyone official say that a top-of-the-level player should beat a bottom-of-the-level player 6-0, 6-0. We all know that there is some overlap in levels depending on the situation, the style of play, conditioning, etc. On any given afternoon, a 3.5 guy playing well can beat a 4.0 guy who is playing poorly. If I saw a 4.0 player consistently beating every 3.5 player he meets by 6-0, 6-0 scores, I would strongly argue that either the 3.5 is rated above his skill level or else, more likely, the 4.0 rated player is rated too low. There are skill differences in the range of a single level, but not so much that someone should consistently whitewash the others in his level. If you are rated 4.0 and yet can beat any 3.5 player you meet, 6-0, 6-0, anytime you want, as often as you want, you are almost certainly a 4.5 player. Even the USTA/NTRP rating guidelines acknowledge that levels bleed across lines to some degree and have some gray area. Total dominance like you are describing, especially when it happens over and over, usually indicates a player playing below proper rating level.

That quote comes from question 31 on the NTRP FAQ on page 6:

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/UST.../Leagues_and_Tournaments/Leagues/NTRP_FAQ.pdf

A typical match
result for a player, for example, with a 3.01 rating versus a 3.49 player, both of
whom are 3.5s, would be 6-0, 6-0 in favor of the higher rated player.

They say this, yet when it happens, it is apparently a strike anyway.

 

[Jim A]

You may search some posts by Amarone a couple years back when I was posting on the same thing. Some quality responses by him

The loss in the first match likely helped your DNTP, in that it lowered it, but if the players you spanked in the last 2 matches were good players...that could have earned strikes. In my first match I went 3 sets so that likely helped me out, although I likely didn't have any strikes until Twilight as I had trouble closing out the first set at times so a lot of 7-6, 6-2, etc type of scores

Here is how my season checked out in 09 for comparison
http://tennislink.usta.com/LEAGUES/...DB00215551D05C8695841B3A69681FBE8D&CYear=2009

In Intermountain a guy was recently DQ'd from 3.5S to 4.0. His singles wins were
6-0,6-0
6-1, 6-0
6-3, 6-0
then a win 2-6, 6-4, 1-0 but the damage had been done

He had only played singles to that point as well.

 

[sillyrabbit]

Last match of the regular season was tonight. I won 6-1, 6-2.

Hopefully, I don't have too many strikes and hopefully my Dntrp isn't too high.

 

[sillyrabbit]

Heh, I looked at the guy I'll likely play in the first match of postseason. He's a self rated 3.0 as well, has won most sets 6-1, has only dropped one set all season, and hasn't lost a match!! If he hasn't been DQ'd, then no one need worry.

I feel silly worrying about my lowly record, but I'm psyched to be playing someone who is clearly blowing away 3.0 opponents!! Should be a heck of a match