Am I the only one who still doesn't see the point of mini-tennis
- Thread starter goober
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wihamilton
Hall of Fame
It's not just about warming up. One of the main reasons you play mini tennis is to learn control / feel. If you can't rally w/topspin (using your normal groundstroke technique) from the service line -- perhaps you're not hitting w/any spin, or you're hitting too hard / long -- then you should play more mini tennis.
In a general sense, mini tennis tests whether or not you have fundamentally sound technique. You don't have nearly as much real estate to work with so you have to be really precise. And precision / accuracy is, of course, a product of proper technique.
WildVolley
Legend
Funny you mention this, as I've seen Nadal practice without mini-tennis. He warmed up his shoulder with the elastic band and then did some weird leg exercises using a strap he connected to a net post. He then walked to the baseline and by the third or fourth hit he was swinging away almost at full force.
At the end of practice, he did a weird sort of mini-tennis in which you had to hit the ball down onto your side of the net before it bounced over the net.
I've only seen one practice, so I'm not saying he never plays mini-tennis.
I don't really believe you. Like I said the people you think suck don't care and likely just want to get on with it and go back to the baseline. Obviously mini tennis won't hurt your game. But I don't think its anything so special that it should be prioritized over other drills.
Pete
Gee Willikers Batman!
Professional
If I don't warm up mini, I can't play right.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
What part don't you believe??? And who said anything about mini-tennis being more important than drills?
plowmanjoe
Rookie
i always try to warm up mini tennis. gets my feet moving and my strokes dialed in.
i find that most intermediates can't keep a rally going in mini tennis. i think it's a true test of your ball control.
i find that most intermediates can't keep a rally going in mini tennis. i think it's a true test of your ball control.
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
mini tennis is sooo easy, but "real" tennis is much harder
split-step
Professional
I do not see the point of mini-tennis as part of a pre-match warmup.
And angles are a HUGE part of my game, but I've already drilled those shots in practise several times over.
Match warmup for me is groundies, approach then volleys, overhead and serves.
If a player during the warmup wants to play mini tennis I will not object, but after about 4 consecutive shots I start moving back till I'm at the baseline.
And angles are a HUGE part of my game, but I've already drilled those shots in practise several times over.
Match warmup for me is groundies, approach then volleys, overhead and serves.
If a player during the warmup wants to play mini tennis I will not object, but after about 4 consecutive shots I start moving back till I'm at the baseline.
That 3.0 and 3.5 often have 'trouble' with it.
If you believe it should be done at the start of EVERY match your placing this drill very high on the ladder, IMHO. People could say rally down the doubles alley or do a multitude of other drills instead.
I do agree with the OP that its the kinda trendy thing to do right now. Obviously its not a huge problem with the world but I don't really agree with the idea of it.
Your practicing strokes that you wouldn't hit in a match - at least if its the mini tennis I was taught. Full strokes at incredibly low speeds.. The best drills simulate match conditions and use match strokes.
I just don't believe human beings need that kind of warmup. We are not cars on a cold day. Other sports don't do the "mini tennis" equivalent.
Basketball players take warm up jumpshots. But they don't have some special mini basket where they take little mini short range jumpers. They just come right out and shoot regular shots..
You don't see baseball players stand RIGHT NEXT to eachother in the bullpen and throw warmup tosses. The guys warming up throw softer at the full distance..
Pete
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Perhaps you misunderstood. I am not saying that 3.0/3.5 players are incapable of mini-tennis. Not even saying that a majority of these players cannot execute some semblance of mini-tennis. I am saying that I've come across a significant percentage that have not mastered it. I work with a lot of students at this ability level. When I first start working with these players, some are unable to perform the skill at a decent level. However, after a lit bit of work, they have all been able to master it and becomes better players as a result -- better preparation skills, improved touch, better balance, more variety/dimensions to their game, etc.
You had made the claim that "rank beginners" can play mini tennis. I've only seen a small % that can do so. While some advanced beginners can perform mini tennis when playing with a much more advanced player, they will usually be unable to do so with someone of their own level. (As a point of reference, I would consider 2.5/3.0 to be low intermediates. Players lower than this would be beginners).
Not necessarily talking about players who are playing competitive matches. It is often used by social players and by competitive players during the course of a practice session. If a competitive player feels than it helps him/her as part of their pre-match activities then, by all means, they should do it. If, like you, they derive no discernible benefit, then they would likely not bother with it.
Some of us are "cars on a cold day".
I first started doing something similar to mini tennis back in the early '90 = before it became "trendy". At that time, I had switched from competitive badminton back to tennis. I was transitioning from a 3.5 level up to a 4.0 level at that time and found that mini tennis helped immensely. As a badminton player, my tennis groundstrokes had atrophied. (Serves, volleys & overheads were pretty much intact tho'). Mini tennis helped to recover those lost skills.
As I progressed toward a 5.0 level, I felt that I had "outgrown" mini tennis. However, in the past few years, I have found a real need to resume playing mini tennis again. As I approach 60, I am finding that my body doesn't quite work that way that it once did. My RT/reflexes have slowed noticeably & my hand-eye takes a bit of time to "warm up" these days. Mini tennis also provides an excellent means to practice keeping my head still and eyes focused on the contact point.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Excellent feedback, Will.
stirallyracer
New User
so basically, if i can't use my western grip forehand and extreme eastern 1hbh to play mini tennis, then i'm a bad player? those kinds of grips require fast racket head speeds to bring the ball over the net, at least for me. and those fast racket head speeds usually result in the ball flying past the service line.
my old coach used to make me play mini tennis every time befor ematches, i had to use a continental grip and push/slice the ball over. then once we started playing the match, i would have no real warmup with my actual groundstrokes. i hated mini tennis. just my point of view.
my old coach used to make me play mini tennis every time befor ematches, i had to use a continental grip and push/slice the ball over. then once we started playing the match, i would have no real warmup with my actual groundstrokes. i hated mini tennis. just my point of view.
If you're going to become a better player, you should learn how to:
a. hit a dipping ball at the net (which can be developed by playing mini tennis)
and
b. flatten out your grip
Variety isn't a bad thing to develop.
Nobody said that you had to sacrifice your total warmup for mini-tennis - it's simply another small drill to help you round out your game.
tennisdad65
Hall of Fame
I actually like to play mini-tennis points (game to 11, 15 or 21). Serve underarm to opposite court and play out the point. The service line serves as both the service line and baseline. It is great for control / touch around the service line and in. I read somewhere that laver and rosewall loved to play mini tennis games.
If my partner wants to warm up playing mini tennis, I go for it too.
If my partner wants to warm up playing mini tennis, I go for it too.
yellowoctopus
Professional
Fully agree with you. I also use it to reacquaint myself with putting different spins on the ball and establishing control, without worrying about the pace.
darthpwner
Banned
it allows u 2 focus on watching the ball and concentrate on making solid contact. the idea isnt about swinging wildly
dennis10is
Banned
I love mini-tennis. I can cover most of the single service box and I have the strength to hit the ball deep to the service line. The full court tennis is too much for me.
I also find that it is more economical. You need only one ball, the ball lasts much longer. Your strings, shoes last way way longer. The court can be used by two groups.
They should make mini-tennis courts. You can cram 4/6 mini courts into one full one.
I also find that it is more economical. You need only one ball, the ball lasts much longer. Your strings, shoes last way way longer. The court can be used by two groups.
They should make mini-tennis courts. You can cram 4/6 mini courts into one full one.
topher.juan
Rookie
I hate it. I don't see how the wimpy strokes correspond to the game, when you're at the net you never hit the ball like that, so what's it teaching? Of course warming up your strokes is good, put one player at the baseline and one at the net if you want to practice your net play. What really gets me about it is my opponents showing up "expecting" mini tennis as a warm up to get their blood going, joints loose, etc. that is NOT my responsibility and NOT why I am there. I just did 30+minutes of warm up before the match so my blood is going and joints are loose, if you haven't that's your problem, don't expect me to give you a warm up, you have a jump rope, right?
I think you have a point. This is essentially my issue with it as well. I wouldn't go so far to say I "hate it" but its not really that useful.
The principle of specificity casts doubt on the usefulness of mini tennis. Since you don't hit shots like that in a match its not really teaching you anything.
You can warm up shots that you actually use like real volleys, real overheads, real serves and real forehand and backhands. You only have so much time to warmup. I don't think opponents in real match play should engage in mini tennis.
Depending on the school/league etc you might only have 15 minutes to warm up. I wouldn't want to spend it on mini tennis.
Pete
If you don't mind me asking, do you play much doubles? At what level?
Personally, even at 4.0, some of the principles of mini-tennis are useful for doubles play, specifically, hitting wide angles, etc.
DavaiMarat
Professional
I warms up my feel with the ball and hand eye much quicker then full length. You hit 3 x times the amount of balls in a given time. I don't do it for long but it doesn't hurt for 1-2 mins. Always use full strokes decelerated, it's actually tougher then you think and warms up the ball focus.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Once again, you taken my words & totally misrepresented or misinterpreted them. I did not say that 3.5 players cannot play mini tennis well. I said that I have seen many that could not.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure what exactly is meant by "mini-tennis."
There's the warm-up that players do before a league match. Both (or all four) at service line for a minute or two before moving back to baseline. I like doing this just to focus on getting my feet moving and hitting a controlled topspin shot.
Then there's competitive mini-tennis, which I like a lot. I was taught that both players line up diagonally and defend their service box, with any ball not bouncing in the box as out. The "serve" is one player sets a ball onto the netstrap and lets it fall into the other player's box. The receiver has to get that ball over the net using touch rather than power, and then it's game on.
I find that in the warm-up, few players at my 3.5 level do anything more than poke the ball back and forth. I have one practice partner who won't even try to hit topspin, preferring to "slice" the ball in the warm-up. I think this rather misses the point, but she says that is the only way she can get the ball over the net without hitting too hard.
I find the competitive mini-tennis to be outstanding practice for dealing with let cords and shots when you are too close to the net, and it really shows who has a good stroke and who does not. 'Cause it can be really hard to get the ball over the net while still hitting something decent.
There's the warm-up that players do before a league match. Both (or all four) at service line for a minute or two before moving back to baseline. I like doing this just to focus on getting my feet moving and hitting a controlled topspin shot.
Then there's competitive mini-tennis, which I like a lot. I was taught that both players line up diagonally and defend their service box, with any ball not bouncing in the box as out. The "serve" is one player sets a ball onto the netstrap and lets it fall into the other player's box. The receiver has to get that ball over the net using touch rather than power, and then it's game on.
I find that in the warm-up, few players at my 3.5 level do anything more than poke the ball back and forth. I have one practice partner who won't even try to hit topspin, preferring to "slice" the ball in the warm-up. I think this rather misses the point, but she says that is the only way she can get the ball over the net without hitting too hard.
I find the competitive mini-tennis to be outstanding practice for dealing with let cords and shots when you are too close to the net, and it really shows who has a good stroke and who does not. 'Cause it can be really hard to get the ball over the net while still hitting something decent.
5263
G.O.A.T.
My take is that is great for 3 things or so, but it is important to know what they are.
1. get the feet moving and warming up
2. get the eyes tracking
3. getting nice early racket prep.
I don't think it is for working on the actual stroke its self; for all the reasons you mention.
Why do you need earlier prep for mini tennis? The ball is going like 2 miles an hour. You can prepare easily after the bounce. I think you guys are just making up all this good stuff about mini tennis to be frank.
On monday I played with a partner who likes mini tennis - we played for like 5 minutes. Today I played without mini tennis with a different partner. I played better today. I don't mean 'score wise" I mean my strokes were better without the mini tennis warmup. More accuracy more depth more pace..etc.
I really don't care one way or the other that much. its usually only a few minutes but I haven't noticed any postive difference in my play.
On monday I played with a partner who likes mini tennis - we played for like 5 minutes. Today I played without mini tennis with a different partner. I played better today. I don't mean 'score wise" I mean my strokes were better without the mini tennis warmup. More accuracy more depth more pace..etc.
I really don't care one way or the other that much. its usually only a few minutes but I haven't noticed any postive difference in my play.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
^ Early preparation is required because your swing is much slower, therefore you need to start it earlier. Players often wait until the ball has bounced to start their loop or backswing. If you prepare late in mini-tennis you will be rushed and therefore will end up swinging too fast to keep the ball in play (in the service box) for mini-tennis. This is what is meant by early prep.
OTMPut
Hall of Fame
I read that Rod Laver used to play mini tennis for hours. Not for warm up but as a practice drill.
Mini tennis is far more difficult if you have to use your regular full motion of strokes. It requires very good touch and feel for the ball. Its purpose is just that get touch and feel.
If you want to equate tennis (or thats how you play) with power bashing from baseline, then you might find it annoying.
Its relegation to a 5 min warmup spot before match at recreational level is unfortunate.
Mini tennis is far more difficult if you have to use your regular full motion of strokes. It requires very good touch and feel for the ball. Its purpose is just that get touch and feel.
If you want to equate tennis (or thats how you play) with power bashing from baseline, then you might find it annoying.
Its relegation to a 5 min warmup spot before match at recreational level is unfortunate.
Pro players wait to the bounce to complete their prep. Prior to the bounce they will have only done the unit turn and will be tracking the ball with their racquet.
So you shouldnt need earlier prep on either type of ground stroke. You do some initial prep when you realize its a forehand or backhand and then complete your take back after the bounce..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5rW...390C69B45&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5
As you can see here Roger completes his prep after the bounce. So with mini or full tennis your prep should not be earlier. The right timing is the right timing..
^^^^ you proved yourself wrong. i have not read the posts just the last few. roger is well into his backswing before the ball bounces. you cannot just unit turn and do everything else after the bounce at the pace the pros are playing.imho. mini tennis is for feel around the net. like when you brought up for a drop shot. the angle reply can be practiced with mini tennis for example. the angle winner cross court that requires more spin than pace is practiced in mini tennis because you cant rip the ball. half volleys can be practiced in mini tennis
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
larry10s has it correct. As the ball is crossing the net, Roger is already begun to execute his unit turn. This is exactly what is meant by early preparation. As the ball is coming up from the bounce we see that Roger is well into his loop swing -- his racket is about to drop. He would not be at this point if not for his early prep. Players who prepare late would wait until that same ball is bouncing to execute their unit turn. This would cause them to be rushed and could very easily limit their options.
In mini-tennis, players should also start their unit turn early in order to perform a complete stroke. A complete stroke should also include a full follow-thru. By the time the follow-thru is complete, the opponent is already preparing their unit turn. Because of the close proximity of the 2 players in mini-tennis, the next shot will occur in less than a second even tho' the ball speed may be very low.
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In mini-tennis, players should also start their unit turn early in order to perform a complete stroke. A complete stroke should also include a full follow-thru. By the time the follow-thru is complete, the opponent is already preparing their unit turn. Because of the close proximity of the 2 players in mini-tennis, the next shot will occur in less than a second even tho' the ball speed may be very low.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Check out the 2nd shot in the video. Here we see that Roger is playing a ball that is bouncing very deep. He has already completed his unit turn and is executing his loop swing by the time that the ball crosses the back service line on his side of the net. Note that his left hand, which is still on the racquet throat for his unit turn, is already extending to the side of the court. This left arm extension assists in his shoulder turn and help him to line up the incoming ball that is about to bounce. Early prep is the key in this shot as well.
5263
G.O.A.T.
I've changed my view on that last sentence and now have specific aspects of the positioning and stroke that can really benefit during the mini tennis....especially the redirect shots I teach, which Imo are the most underrated shots in tennis.
mental midget
Hall of Fame
it's fun in it's own way but agree, does nothing for my warm up.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
The difference in stroke appearance between MT and regular tennis of someone who is good at MT is much smaller than that of someone who is not.
Someone who is good at MT has strokes that strongly resemble what they do on the BL.
Someone who is bad at MT has strokes that barely resemble what they do on the BL.
This proves nothing about whether person A is better than B but I've observed a correlation.
Also, if someone's game is based on flat or slice, it will be tough to do MT with anything approaching a normal swing.
I used to hate MT because I sucked at it. As my ground game has improved, I no longer suck and I see the benefit. My default is to start with MT because of convention but I'm fine with skipping it if my opponent wants to start on the BL.
Someone who is good at MT has strokes that strongly resemble what they do on the BL.
Someone who is bad at MT has strokes that barely resemble what they do on the BL.
This proves nothing about whether person A is better than B but I've observed a correlation.
Also, if someone's game is based on flat or slice, it will be tough to do MT with anything approaching a normal swing.
I used to hate MT because I sucked at it. As my ground game has improved, I no longer suck and I see the benefit. My default is to start with MT because of convention but I'm fine with skipping it if my opponent wants to start on the BL.
CT-Topspin
Rookie
Gets your feet moving, puts focus on contact point and control, allows you to practice volleys, etc.
Baseline rallies are the natural progression from mini tennis but I find if we jump into it cold the timing and rhythm is off.
Baseline rallies are the natural progression from mini tennis but I find if we jump into it cold the timing and rhythm is off.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Also, what I notice some players do is start with MT but every 2nd or 3rd shot, they back up a bit. It happens gradually so you miss it if you're not paying attention but at some point you realize they're on the BL rather than the SL.
I love the thread resurrection after 12 years. Lots of very very high level players starts with mini. I mean Challenger and future level pros I know etc. If you cannot successfully rally mini with topspin ypu likely have technique issues and the dislike has more to do with denial/ignorance about your weaknesses than anything else. Just my opinion
The problem with the idea of taking a full swing in mini tennis is the number of snowflakes playing tennis, who will make a massive deal about being accidentally being hit with the ball. I have witnessed enough of these accidental incidents spiral out of control to take a safety first approach. Am I going to take a full swing at the ball, risk loosing control, when I don't know the person I am warming up with?
Nope, so I take the safety first approach of slicing and bunting the ball to avoid problems. Which of course ruins the mini warmup.
Nope, so I take the safety first approach of slicing and bunting the ball to avoid problems. Which of course ruins the mini warmup.
CT-Topspin
Rookie
Wait what? How often are you accidentally hitting people with the ball? In my experience this is not common occurrence. I also don't regularly see people "slip" and blast a forehand either in the context of a MT warmup.
dominikk1985
Legend
I definitely think that playing some serve box points is important even at older ages. Even at the atp and especially wta you see a lot of players who have good swings but can't deal with short slices and droppers. You see that with Federer and Nadal, they are winning almost every short-short point after a dropper or short slice because they have a much better touch on short slices, counter dropshots and pushes compared to the modern topspin robots. Wta that is even worse, some of them have comically bad touch on those short touch shots. Obviously not many can expose that for example against Serena as she is mostly able to avoid those exchanges but if she gets into such an exchange she often looks bad.
You can't always take a full swing, sometimes you need to do a push or touch slice
Don't get me wrong, serve, ROS, forehand and backhand groundstrokes are more important but a complete player also should be able to win the short game. That can be best practiced by serve box points.
We played them as kids by rolling the ball down the net court and then start the point there.
You can't always take a full swing, sometimes you need to do a push or touch slice
Don't get me wrong, serve, ROS, forehand and backhand groundstrokes are more important but a complete player also should be able to win the short game. That can be best practiced by serve box points.
We played them as kids by rolling the ball down the net court and then start the point there.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
The coach of the local college that I take lessons from insists on starting with mini tennis and he is a strong 5.0 level player. Plus whenever I watch the college guys practice they always start with mini tennis.
The coach tells me that you need to be able to manipulate the ball from close in and he will tell me no slicing. He wants you to be able to hit full stroke topspin shots off both wings and be able to bounce the ball to your opponent at a moderate to slow speed. It’s not that easy to do, it takes good feel and mostly brushing the ball.
The coach tells me that you need to be able to manipulate the ball from close in and he will tell me no slicing. He wants you to be able to hit full stroke topspin shots off both wings and be able to bounce the ball to your opponent at a moderate to slow speed. It’s not that easy to do, it takes good feel and mostly brushing the ball.
