Am I the only one who still doesn't see the point of mini-tennis

You don't really have to justify it though, its practice. Because the point is to sharpen or re-hone your skills. Imagine if you haven't played in a long time? Mini tennis is great for that, because 1 if you spray the ball all over the place from the baseline, you'll have to walk further to pick it up. 2 the ball comes back to you sooner and slower, so its easy to groove your footwork. And so on etc.
 
CT-Topspin said:
Wait what? How often are you accidentally hitting people with the ball? In my experience this is not common occurrence. I also don't regularly see people "slip" and blast a forehand either in the context of a MT warmup.
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Wow, how to read something out of context. Frankly if you have never seen someone hit by the ball in the doubles, I question how much experience of tennis you have. I have seen people caught by serves and shots more times than I can count. Sometimes from their partner, sometimes from their opponent. I saw a person take a first serve full in the face, from their partner, today.

I have certainly done it but no more than most over the years, I just had one incident were someone blew it out of proportion and made a massive fuss. Since then I have been extra careful. for example I would never drive a passing shot near an opponent.

So I am not a fan of taking a full swing at the ball with somebody that close to the net.
 
zaph said:
Wow, how to read something out of context. Frankly if you have never seen someone hit by the ball in the doubles, I question how much experience of tennis you have. I have seen people caught by serves and shots more times than I can count. Sometimes from their partner, sometimes from their opponent. I saw a person take a first serve full in the face, from their partner, today.

I have certainly done it but no more than most over the years, I just had one incident were someone blew it out of proportion and made a massive fuss. Since then I have been extra careful. for example I would never drive a passing shot near an opponent.

So I am not a fan of taking a full swing at the ball with somebody that close to the net.
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We were talking about mini tennis. My statement was in relation to mini tennis.
 
user92626 said:
Deal with it. That's the level of reading comprehension around here, especially this guy zaph. LOL :)


I love mini tennis. It can get into like a trance for me.

Mini tennis is also good for loosening you up.
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Yeah, I didn't understand that by penetrating forehands you meant play at the net. That is all on me.
 
CT-Topspin said:
We were talking about mini tennis. My statement was in relation to mini tennis.
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Yes I my statement was about why I don't like taking full swings at the ball in mini tennis because of the potential risk of it. Not difficult to understand is it?

Have I hit anyone in mini tennis? Nope. I know the risks are tiny but I would rather just bunt the ball and play it safe.
 
I wonder how long this mini tennis thing has been around. My 56 year old ex pro coach thinks it’s useless. I forgot to ask him if other people did it when he was young, playing pro tennis.
 
user92626 said:
Deal with it. That's the level of reading comprehension around here, especially this guy zaph. LOL :)


I love mini tennis. It can get into like a trance for me.

Mini tennis is also good for loosening you up.
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Hang on did you delete that whole thread you started where you complain about your doubles partner? Can't find it anywhere.
 
I think that 4.5+ players and coaches like mini-tennis because they hit full strokes similar to what they usually hit, except with a slow swing and more brushing of the ball - they have the control to still keep it in the service box. When I start a lesson or hitting session with mini-tennis, I can focus on my technique fundamentals like takeback, exaggerated followthrough, moving my feet early to get out of the way of balls hit right at me, getting low with my knee to start the swing low etc. When we move back to the baseline, I stop thinking about technique and think only about what shot (spin/pace/trajectory) I want to hit and my target spot. So, mini-tennis is a 4-5 minute refresher on technique that also promotes good touch and I see even pros and college players doing it before practice sessions at tournaments.

If a player is at a level where they can’t control the ball properly in mini-tennis using full swings and proper technique, I can see why they don’t want to do it or see the point of it. It probably doesn’t add any value if mini-tennis forces you to hit ‘special‘ low-speed hacking/bunting shots that you usually won’t hit otherwise. If the player I’m hitting with is unable to have good control during mini-tennis, I’ll stop and go back right away as there is no point doing mini-tennis if both players are not hitting with good control and giving each other rhythm. The best mini-tennis sessions I have are with my coach and it is usually a prelude to the best hitting sessions.

I don’t do it during warmup before singles matches, but am forced to do it before doubles sometimes when all the other players start doing it.
 
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The two issues I’ve seen with mini tennis: some people want to do it for way too long doing some sort of junk ball slice and dice BS nonstop, and, in league, half the guys are trying to “win” mini tennis. I suppose that’s true of league warmup in general.
 
jered said:
The two issues I’ve seen with mini tennis: some people want to do it for way too long doing some sort of junk ball slice and dice BS nonstop, and, in league, half the guys are trying to “win” mini tennis. I suppose that’s true of league warmup in general.
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I have the same problem @socallefty mentioned with my partners, that are "at a level where they can’t control the ball properly in mini-tennis using full swings and proper technique" and hit inside the service area...
 
jered said:
The two issues I’ve seen with mini tennis: some people want to do it for way too long doing some sort of junk ball slice and dice BS nonstop, and, in league, half the guys are trying to “win” mini tennis. I suppose that’s true of league warmup in general.
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When I‘ve played league matches, we show up 20-30 mins early and warmup up with our own players on our team. When it is match time, we only hit with opposing players for 2-3 minutes and sometimes not even that if they are also warmed up already. So, no one is trying to win the ‘warmup’. Do you not warmup with your own team’s players?
 
FiddlerDog said:
I love mini. I practice my unit turn and footwork. Also develops feel for short balls. Big spin at mini separates the men from the boys. Slicers and bunters
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Big topspin at mini separates the kids from the teenagers. Being able to do both big topspin and proper slice at mini with perfect control separates the men from the boys. Advanced players have as good control on their slice shots as they do with their topspin and have perfect depth and speed control on both spins from either wing typically.
 
socallefty said:
When I‘ve played league matches, we show up 20-30 mins early and warmup up with our own players on our team. When it is match time, we only hit with opposing players for 2-3 minutes and sometimes not even that if they are also warmed up already. So, no one is trying to win the ‘warmup’. Do you not warmup with your own team’s players?
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Usually because of court reservationsthere isn’t much time for team warmup.
 
socallefty said:
Big topspin at mini separates the kids from the teenagers. Being able to do both big topspin and proper slice at mini with perfect control separates the men from the boys. Advanced players have as good control on their slice shots as they do with their topspin and have perfect depth and speed control on both spins from either wing typically.
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sorry, this completely logical and correct perspective does not belong in this section
 
As an old guy, MT allows for an easy warmup for everything that hurts. Typically start with about 20-30 seconds of underspin shots standing just inside the service line, then progress to full length swings from just behind the baseline for about 20 seconds. Then, every three or four shots, we take a couple of steps back. We're at our regular positions within a couple of minutes, maybe three or four at the outside, and have gotten most of the painful joints to accept they are in for some abuse.
 
Curious said:
I wonder how long this mini tennis thing has been around. My 56 year old ex pro coach thinks it’s useless. I forgot to ask him if other people did it when he was young, playing pro tennis.
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I first came across mini-tennis in the '90s. First learned from two different college team coaches back then. Both of those guys played semi-pro (6.0+) back in the 1980s. Subsequently saw elite junior players using it as well as college team players.

Don't know how many of the top pro players were using it back in the 90s but had seen some doing so in the 00s.
 
Fintft said:
I have the same problem @socallefty mentioned with my partners, that are "at a level where they can’t control the ball properly in mini-tennis using full swings and proper technique" and hit inside the service area...
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I usually suggest an abbreviated or compact takeback but a full follow-thru rather than a full swing. A lot of the balls you see in mini-tennis, even those who have decent control, will force you to hit a lot of shots on the rise. That is best handled with an early prep & shorter backswing.

But no skimping on the finish. No babying or bunting the ball.
 
I spent the 6 months of lockdown playing on a court which was good 6 metres short. Not my idea of good fun. The deceleration of mini tennis is on a whole other level of irritation, though.
 
cha cha said:
I spent the 6 months of lockdown playing on a court which was good 6 metres short. Not my idea of good fun. The deceleration of mini tennis is on a whole other level of irritation, though.
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During winter lockdown I spent a few months doing "baby mini-tennis" in my basement, which is probably half the distance of regular mini-tennis. Interestingly I received some different benefits. Although I had to use very abbreviated strokes, it improved my feel on the slice, volleys, foot adjustment speed and also my overall reaction speed.
 
Slicerman said:
During winter lockdown I spent a few months doing "baby mini-tennis" in my basement, which is probably half the distance of regular mini-tennis. Interestingly I received some different benefits. Although I had to use very abbreviated strokes, it improved my feel on the slice, volleys, foot adjustment speed and also my overall reaction speed.
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I observed a couple of things as well.
My racket is simply too heavy to be wristing every shot in for two hours.
You can stand much closer on return than you would think.
You can also rally much closer to the baseline than what you think.
Half-volleying every second groundstroke is more doable than you think.
Slice is key.
But the deadly deceleration is there. There is just no way around it.
 
FloridaAG said:
I love the thread resurrection after 12 years. Lots of very very high level players starts with mini. I mean Challenger and future level pros I know etc. If you cannot successfully rally mini with topspin ypu likely have technique issues and the dislike has more to do with denial/ignorance about your weaknesses than anything else. Just my opinion
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I know this is an old thread but there is some information in there about Agassi and Roddick hitting 100mph from the start in practices whereas Becker was a proponent of starting slow.

So I don’t think you can generalize that someone who does not like mini tennis has ignorance or technical issues.
 
tlm said:
The coach of the local college that I take lessons from insists on starting with mini tennis and he is a strong 5.0 level player. Plus whenever I watch the college guys practice they always start with mini tennis.

The coach tells me that you need to be able to manipulate the ball from close in and he will tell me no slicing. He wants you to be able to hit full stroke topspin shots off both wings and be able to bounce the ball to your opponent at a moderate to slow speed. It’s not that easy to do, it takes good feel and mostly brushing the ball.
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What if your game involves predominantly slicing off both wings? That is my situation playing with a modified conti and why topspin mini tennis doesn’t have a carryover for me though I can hit gentle topspin shots and play mini tennis to help my opponent warm up before games.

One of the guys in our group is an ex 5.0.Still a solid player though no longer playing tournaments. He comes in and is just smashing the ball all over the place. Mostly missing long but within 5 mins he is hitting it hard and keeping it in. As mentioned someone posted about Agassi and Roddick doing similar things too.
 
Injured Again said:
This old guy hurts after Advil. Beer, on the other hand, helps a lot!

As a resident of the Pacific Northwest in the midst of a literal once-in-a century heat wave, I'm playing tennis at 4 p.m. tomorrow in 105 degree F. weather. I'm planning on halving the Advil and doubling the beer!
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Just another day for us Texas guys :)
 
mcs1970 said:
I know this is an old thread but there is some information in there about Agassi and Roddick hitting 100mph from the start in practices whereas Becker was a proponent of starting slow.
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True but that same thread noticed that Agassi and Roddick had already warmed up prior to the hitting session. So the session when they hit 100mph is not of interest; the one before that is.
 
mcs1970 said:
What if your game involves predominantly slicing off both wings? That is my situation playing with a modified conti and why topspin mini tennis doesn’t have a carryover for me though I can hit gentle topspin shots and play mini tennis to help my opponent warm up before games.
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Good point. I use slice in MT also but not at the feet of my opponent but short enough that he can still hit an easy shot.

One of the guys in our group is an ex 5.0.Still a solid player though no longer playing tournaments. He comes in and is just smashing the ball all over the place. Mostly missing long but within 5 mins he is hitting it hard and keeping it in. As mentioned someone posted about Agassi and Roddick doing similar things too.
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Wouldn't you say he's an outlier, though? No one's saying they don't exist but how applicable is that experience to the general rec player?
 
i could do without it. i think older guys do it because it...feels like an easy way to warm up, 'get moving' i guess but i'm always in a hurry to get back to the baseline and warm up the regular way. just doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on matchplay imo, would rather try to groove my stroke and work on footwork at the proper distance.

maybe it's good for warming up your 'touch' i suppose, dinking angles around etc. but trying to brush full strokes in a tiny box...eh.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Good point. I use slice in MT also but not at the feet of my opponent but short enough that he can still hit an easy shot.



Wouldn't you say he's an outlier, though? No one's saying they don't exist but how applicable is that experience to the general rec player?
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I was not advocating it but was just saying players, even very good ones, do have different ways they go about things.
 
I used to hate it, grew to like it, and now get irritated that some people seem to want to do it forever.

To be frank it depends whos(whom?) it with. When the other guy on the net is a slicer I back up quickly. I can't get good strokes in when I'm picking his garbage up off the ground, just so he can do it again. From the baseline I don't really mind the cutters at all, just have to adjust the targeting.
 
I play a slice game predominantly because I tend to get wild with my topspin shots in my game. However I am always trying to get back to more topspin as slices have less margin for error, especially in doubles games.

Mini tennis didn’t seem to have much carryover for me as I would start hitting the ball harder as the drill progressed more and more to the baseline. Most probably because I didn’t understand that was not what I was supposed to do. Funnily enough the last month or so just for the heck of it I tried a drill of alternating cross court topspin shots, first one in cc service box followed by a deeper cc shot. On and on. It was an eureka moment for me because trying intentionally to vary depths has begun to finally give me a feel for topspin shots.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
True but that same thread noticed that Agassi and Roddick had already warmed up prior to the hitting session. So the session when they hit 100mph is not of interest; the one before that is.
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“Gilbert indicated that the short-court warm-up is more Euro-centric, and that Roddick and Agassi warm-up before walking on the court and then let it fly immediately. To each his own…”


But the quote doesn’t make it clear what the warm up is about. If the warm up off the court was more like mini tennis why wouldn’t Gilbert just mention that they advocate it too than draw a difference in approach wrt Becker? You are probably correct but that post is not very clear.
 
mcs1970 said:
I play a slice game predominantly because I tend to get wild with my topspin shots in my game. However I am always trying to get back to more topspin as slices have less margin for error, especially in doubles games.
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Most beginners start out feeling more comfortable with slicing, but eventually hit a limit. The complete player hits both topspin and slice, and they are rarely interchangeable. Sounds like you're on the right path to advanced tennis.
 
socallefty said:
Big topspin at mini separates the kids from the teenagers. Being able to do both big topspin and proper slice at mini with perfect control separates the men from the boys. Advanced players have as good control on their slice shots as they do with their topspin and have perfect depth and speed control on both spins from either wing typically.
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If you have to slice at mini, then you need to work on your footwork and late prep.
 
mcs1970 said:
What if your game involves predominantly slicing off both wings? That is my situation playing with a modified conti and why topspin mini tennis doesn’t have a carryover for me though I can hit gentle topspin shots and play mini tennis to help my opponent warm up before games.

One of the guys in our group is an ex 5.0.Still a solid player though no longer playing tournaments. He comes in and is just smashing the ball all over the place. Mostly missing long but within 5 mins he is hitting it hard and keeping it in. As mentioned someone posted about Agassi and Roddick doing similar things too.
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Then I suppose you could just hit all slices then. There isn’t much challenge to that though, it’s very easy to play mini tennis if just slicing. The coach I work with wants a player to be able to hit topspin and have enough control and feel to hit at a short target.
 
socallefty said:
I like to practice both topspin and slice in mini - I can hit all topspin if I want, but it is a chance to work on touch shots also. I hit mostly topspin though.
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I think this is especially important if you are doing it before a doubles match. In fact hitting short slice is a key to solid doubles play and mini offers a great chance to work on that touch shot.
 
FiddlerDog said:
Most beginners start out feeling more comfortable with slicing, but eventually hit a limit. The complete player hits both topspin and slice, and they are rarely interchangeable. Sounds like you're on the right path to advanced tennis.
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Not sure about being a beginner because I predominantly slice nor about getting to an advanced level as I try to incorporate more topspin.

I play at a decent level but given age (50+) and injuries, variety is just for a few more options than any real aim for advancement.
 
Curious said:
I wonder how long this mini tennis thing has been around. My 56 year old ex pro coach thinks it’s useless. I forgot to ask him if other people did it when he was young, playing pro tennis.
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I'm 55, and I can confirm that this was definitely not a thing when I was was playing (pre-teen up until 23 or so). Literally never saw it, never heard of it (honestly had to google the term when I first read it, as I was completely away from tennis for 30 years). Warm up basically consisted of some static stretches and maybe a 5-10 minute run, then starting with some light hitting from the baseline. If a wall was available, I would always warm up with that.

I like the concept as a warm-up though, and as I'm instructing my wife, who is new to the game, I actually think it's a great way to warm up--mostly to get re-acclimated to the distance between the hand and the ball. I also think it just helps get the brain warmed up with ball recognition. Lastly, it helps with half-volleys, something a lot of folks rarely practice.

FWIW, I use my volley grips, basically an Aussie forehand/conti backhand. As far as "warming up" to prevent injury, I have another strategy though: I just don't run after balls for the first 5-10 minutes or so. You don't need mini tennis for this. Just don't pretend you're Rafa for the first few minutes and ease into it.
 
RVT said:
I'm 55, and I can confirm that this was definitely not a thing when I was was playing (pre-teen up until 23 or so). Literally never saw it, never heard of it (honestly had to google the term when I first read it, as I was completely away from tennis for 30 years). Warm up basically consisted of some static stretches and maybe a 5-10 minute run, then starting with some light hitting from the baseline. If a wall was available, I would always warm up with that.

I like the concept as a warm-up though, and as I'm instructing my wife, who is new to the game, I actually think it's a great way to warm up--mostly to get re-acclimated to the distance between the hand and the ball. I also think it just helps get the brain warmed up with ball recognition. Lastly, it helps with half-volleys, something a lot of folks rarely practice.

FWIW, I use my volley grips, basically an Aussie forehand/conti backhand. As far as "warming up" to prevent injury, I have another strategy though: I just don't run after balls for the first 5-10 minutes or so. You don't need mini tennis for this. Just don't pretend you're Rafa for the first few minutes and ease into it.
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I don't recall if I saw mini-tennis in the 1980s. But I did come across a couple of college tennis coaches who used it with their team as well as in their classes in the 1990s. That might have been the mid-90s.

In the early 90s, we stopped using static stretches in the advanced volleyball classes I was taking. Static stretches were performed after play or exercise.

By the late 90s & early 00s, I was starting to see the same thing in tennis classes. Very little static stretching at the beginning of class. Dynamic stretches started to become utilized instead. Static stretches were saved for cool-down afterward.
 
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