Am I the only one who still doesn't see the point of mini-tennis
- Thread starter goober
- Start date
Not arguing otherwise?
Simply starting that this was the preferred warm-up of pretty much all higher level players 30 years ago. Not suggesting it to anyone...
Knowledge evolves...
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@Bender
It's not uncommon to see badminton players starting up with the net for some easy drops or touch shots before heading back & hitting more aggressive strokes.
Football QBs, baseball pitchers and fielders with often start with easy throws and catches, at a short or moderate distance before going for more vigorous throwing.
Mini-eating. Start with your face fairly close to your plate. With a small portion of food, bring your spoon or fork up to your mouth at a moderate pace. Do not chew fast at first.
It's not uncommon to see badminton players starting up with the net for some easy drops or touch shots before heading back & hitting more aggressive strokes.
Football QBs, baseball pitchers and fielders with often start with easy throws and catches, at a short or moderate distance before going for more vigorous throwing.
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ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
Even a mini bar would not make mini tennis ok.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Do Not agree. Been doing mini since the mid 90s. Love it. Huge fan.
In volleyball, been doing it since the mid 80s. Be start with easy overhead throws -- both two handed & then one-handed (both arms). Then we get into an easy "pepper" -- pass, set, (easy) hit, pass, set, hit, etc. Try to get a good rhythm going with this sequence.
Ditto for downhill skiing. As a low intermediate skier, at the beginning of the day, I would start slow, on the shorter, easier "bunny slopes" before skiing faster and on the more challenging runs. Even as an advanced int skier, I would certainly never consider starting out on a black diamond run. Easier runs w/o moguls before graduating to the harder stuff later in the morning (or later in the day).
Mini bar after tennis okay for moi. But mini bar for my opponents prior to tennis is fine.
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mtommer
Hall of Fame
I think that first and foremost it's important to note that you're probably overthinking the point of "mini" tennis. From what I've seen at the Nats every year, mini tennis is primarily about mentally getting yourself into the tennis mindset. All the juniors do it regardless of whether they're starting a practice match or just plain practice. They're relaxed, joking around, not "playing" it seriously in the least. As others have alluded to, it's mostly just a brief dedicated warmup where you don't have to chase down balls, worry about hitting into the net, basically not worrying about anything other than just preparing to be on the court.
If you can think of another way of barely missing any ball, making it easy to converse in a relaxed manner, and ramp your mindset into working on the tennis court, then by all means just do that. All I will advise is that if you do forgo the mini tennis, make sure you're ready to work when you step onto the court.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
I have come up with some warm up mini variations for other sports too. Designed to get the fell and warm up.
- Mini handball, where the complete team plays in the defensive zone only.
- Mini basketball, where you throw from 2 metres off the hoop.
- Mini soccer, where you kick at the goal from the 6 yard box.
- Mini squash, where both opponents stand 40cm from the wall.
- Mini water polo - in a paddling pool obviously.
- Mini table tennis, where the belly must touch the table at all times.
- Mini cycling, where you push the bicycle by your side the first mile.
- Mini rugby, where no running or tackling is allowed.
- Mini volleyball, where all players stand inside the 10 foot line and only throw the ball over.
- Mini handball, where the complete team plays in the defensive zone only.
- Mini basketball, where you throw from 2 metres off the hoop.
- Mini soccer, where you kick at the goal from the 6 yard box.
- Mini squash, where both opponents stand 40cm from the wall.
- Mini water polo - in a paddling pool obviously.
- Mini table tennis, where the belly must touch the table at all times.
- Mini cycling, where you push the bicycle by your side the first mile.
- Mini rugby, where no running or tackling is allowed.
- Mini volleyball, where all players stand inside the 10 foot line and only throw the ball over.
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ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@Bagumbawalla
With a large class would would do this on several courts. Or we would play King of the Court on 2 courts. This mini-vball game was a lot of fun to play. And it gave us the opportunity to work on placement, touch and other skills at the net.
A couple of different Int/Advanced volleyball classes I took often played a mini-vball game. Three players (sometimes only 2) would attack & defend inside the 10 foot (3 meter) line. Anything past the 10-ft line was out. (Actually, we did not necessarily have to stand inside the 10-ft line. But we could only attack from inside the reduce playing area).
With a large class would would do this on several courts. Or we would play King of the Court on 2 courts. This mini-vball game was a lot of fun to play. And it gave us the opportunity to work on placement, touch and other skills at the net.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
We play national championships in this sport out here.
It is fantastic. It trains all of the skills nobody lacks like tipping, block out, decelerating and being a scared little chicken. Just like mini tennis.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Say I understand this response. Scared little chicken? Huh?
cha cha
Hall of Fame
Yes, if you want to spike into the full court, you swing. If you want to spike into the front court, you decelerate like a little girl unless it is set absolutely at the top of the net. And deceleration is toxic, especially in these two sports. Mini tennis is built for deceleration. It actively builds the one quality which makes every single rec tennis player terrible.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Odd way of putting it. Little girls cannot spike down inside the 10 ft line. But I played with quite a few advanced players that could do it -- with considerable force. (I could only do it if I hit left-handed but using a right-handed approach).
But spiking wasn't really the primary purpose of mini-vball. Or did you miss that fact? Just like passing shots and overhead smashes are not the purpose behind mini-tennis.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
Spiking is the primary purpose of volleyball and this mini version trains a negligible part of the game. Hence my analogy to the mini tennis which promotes something most people do no lack - deceleration. Yet there you all are, advocating its use in every session.
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Negligible part of the game??? Wow!
This is a very odd, rather simplistic and very incomplete view of volleyball. Is this really what you think volleyball is?
Much more to the game than just spiking. Serving, passing, setting, blocking, tipping, touch shots, movement, etc are all very important aspects of volleyball. If these are not developed and in place, hitters will not get an opportunity to spike the ball.
Only one out of three or four shots are typically a spiking action. At any given point, usually only two or three players out of six are potential primary hitters. Every once in awhile you will have a back row hitter take off from behind it 10 ft line. But for the most part, the 3 players in the back are primarily defensive players. They are passers / retrievers (unless one of them is a setter).
Your analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Players who prefer to warm up starting at the baseline are hitting ground strokes. While they are doing this they are not hitting the two most offensive shots in the game -- serves in overhead smashes. This does not make baseline rallying any less valid than mini-tennis is.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
You really don't seem to understand the purpose of mini-tennis. It is NOT tennis practice. It might be a small part of it but most practice of tennis strokes is done at other times, not right before play.
Take a look at professional athletes in many sports. They start off relatively easy. Easy throws and catches for example. They are not throwing or running at top speed at the very start.
Mini is usually a preamble to more aggressive BL hitting. Not a substitute for it. It is used for "waking up the brain", facilitating mental focus, hand-eye coordination, visual skills, timing, early preparation and more. It is a preparation and an adjunct to the rest of your warm-up -- NOT a substitute for it.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Before most of my tennis competition, I had been competing in badminton for quite a few years. The smash, like the vball smash is the most offensive shot in the game. Badminton smashes often exceed 175 mph. Some have clocked at over 200 mph in match play.
Yet, one of the best things I did for my game was to stop smashing for a while. As an intermediate player, if I was playing someone who was a little bit lower level, I would not use my smash at all against them. This forced me to hone my other strokes / skills. It did wonders for my placement, deception, footwork and touch.
I learn to read other players better. I developed an arsenal of other strokes that I did not previously possess. It all, it made me a much more complete player.
Like badminton, there is a whole lot more to volleyball than just smashing or spiking the ball. It behooves players to develop many aspects to their game, not just the glory shot.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Some deep shots in mini tennis will force you to execute a half-volley (very similar what you might see in a match). But simulating strokes and game playing is not the purpose of mini tennis. This has been repeated ad nauseam in this & other threads.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Typo? Did you mean BL, instead of the SL?
And even if you meant BL, yes mini tennis resembles it.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Only if they hit way past the service box, or hard, as I stand behind the SL and can get to most shots inside the service box, easily.
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
No typo. You hit approach shots, volleys, overheads around the service line in real tennis, not nice and easy groundstrokes.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Again, not the purpose of mini tennis.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
Yes, even excellent players waste time with stupid things.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Can you hit those nice and easy groundstrokes?
Actually I think you might lol
Where you seem to struggle is with the full swing ones
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Changed to make it apply to rec playersIf you suck at playing up from baseline then mini tennis makes sense as an option. Hence you never see the GOAT do it.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Still not the purpose of mini tennis.If you suck at warming up from baseline then mini tennis makes sense as an option. Hence you never see the GOAT do it.
BTW, there has been a video posted, sometime back, of 2 of the Big 3 hitting mini tennis against each other. A number of other videos of other elite players hitting mini as well. No doubt that, many who were juniors in the 90s & 00s play a fair amount of mini.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
Man, we have had this discussion two times already. I am a national level volleyball player. Our matches are won by serving, receiving and attacking. That is volleyball. What you play around with at the short court is negligible at best, harmful for most recreational players.
What you play around with in mini tennis is not tennis. Tennis is played by hitting hard from the baseline. Mini tennis is harmful for a standard rec player.
*Sorry, second language. National level means national team. Not quite that good. I meant national level league player.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Ok. But most, something in the very high 90% of all players, do not play at a national or international level. So what might apply to you does not apply to most people who play volleyball.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
Exactly what I want to hear.
I can do whatever I damn please on a volleyball court because I am able to hit those shots. I can waste the precious time my joints have left on jumping like an idiot in the front court without ever spiking.
But a regular weekend warrior needs to stand his ass behind the baseline a serve for and hour, he needs to spike with a proper approach and most of all, he needs to devote zero time anything that can hurt his technique. That is the sole reason why I am saying that mini volleyball is harmful and mini tennis is a zero sum game for most people.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
You believe it is harmful then, you are not understanding what mini is used for. IT IS NOT FOR HONING YOUR STROKES. That comes after mini tennis.
High ntermediate players, top junior players, collegiate players and even many pro players play or have played mini tennis. It is not harmed their tennis. It has enhanced it.
Low level players who perform mini tennis incorrectly might be doing harm to their game. But those who have learned to do it properly are not.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Only 34 and your knees are nearly shot? That's sad. I did something stupid to my knees in my early 40s. But they were pretty good for the most part until my late 50s.
Sounds like weak argument. I don't really see all that much extra jumping in mini-vball. No one I know plays it for an extended period of time so that it is an issue. Are you not playing on decent floors with decent shoes?
Even in match play and regular practice, there should be a whole lot of jumping going on when not spiking. Usually, two or three blockers are usually going up against a spiker. So they are jumping without spiking.
It not uncommon to see a middle hitter jumping, as a fake, to throw off the blockers. Every once in awhile, the setter is jumping to set some balls (but perhaps not very often). Many players hit jump serves these days. So, even back row players are jumping.
Are you not doing plyometric exercises and strength development exercises for your knees? Skipping rope and doing plyometric exercises involves a lot of jumping.
Sounds like the little bit of extra jumping for short games of mini v-ball is a "drop in the bucket" compared to all the jumping that is done in regular practice and in games.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
25 years of daily torture. I do hear the nerve endings dull with age, though. : - )
The thing is, people here do warm up with mini volleyball in fact. Until they are 20 and they know better.
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travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
When it’s 105F down here with moderately high humidity, which is often, I don’t last very long. I need to start dumping ice water on my head after warm-up.
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
If you suck at warming up from baseline then mini tennis makes sense as an option. Hence you never see the GOAT do it.
Mini tennis was invented by those that didn’t want to show they can’t hit a bh in the court from the baseline. That 50% of the mini players that are about to lose the upcoming match.
cha cha
Hall of Fame
No, I do not start fast. I refuse to run, bend my knees or hit anything with maxumum force the first 10 minutes.
That is precisely why I belive mini tennis is sheit. Because I can warm up from the baseline without the deceleration.
for beginner/intermediate lessons, i can see the most obvious issues in a student's mental model of how they are trying to hit the ball... takes only a couple min to see what they need to work on.
for advanced folks i can sometimes detect little things i can exploit in my match against them...
for example i played a 4.5 dubs match yesterday where my opp mostly sliced their bh (and i was feeding him well), and only occasionaly hit topspin when alot of given time).. which translated to
* when under pressure he mostly/only sliced... so we targed his bh, poached all returns, and mainly defended the lob
* and predictably he went big with his good fh, so we poached a little less when we went to his fh
another example was when my opp had a very flat fh, had alot of trouble hitting it up and down in mini... which translated to
* i gave up the sharp angle hole at the net, and aggressively covered the middle because i knew it was gonna be hard for him to do anything but lob or hit straight through the middle'ish
personally i love mini for getting my feet moving, warmup my eye/hand/foot coordination
it's really good for practicing half volleys type groundstroke as well
most people i come across that don't like mini, also have terrible footwork, or don't/can't do the brush
for advanced folks i can sometimes detect little things i can exploit in my match against them...
for example i played a 4.5 dubs match yesterday where my opp mostly sliced their bh (and i was feeding him well), and only occasionaly hit topspin when alot of given time).. which translated to
* when under pressure he mostly/only sliced... so we targed his bh, poached all returns, and mainly defended the lob
* and predictably he went big with his good fh, so we poached a little less when we went to his fh
another example was when my opp had a very flat fh, had alot of trouble hitting it up and down in mini... which translated to
* i gave up the sharp angle hole at the net, and aggressively covered the middle because i knew it was gonna be hard for him to do anything but lob or hit straight through the middle'ish
personally i love mini for getting my feet moving, warmup my eye/hand/foot coordination
it's really good for practicing half volleys type groundstroke as well
most people i come across that don't like mini, also have terrible footwork, or don't/can't do the brush
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Mini tennis is actually easier on the body, especially an aging body, than starting at the baseline. Better to develop your timing, hand-eye coordination, etc with an easier warmup activity. Some players find it difficult to relax, find their timing, get into a rhythm, etc if they start hitting faster balls from the baseline. That never really happens with many players.
I was in my early 40s when I was introduced to mini-vball as a high intermediate player. I did not find it particularly taxing on my body at all.
the same folks that can't mini, are likely shanking the ball all over the place from the baseline... and call their ball that accidently went into the corners "intentional"If you suck at warming up from baseline then mini tennis makes sense as an option. Hence you never see the GOAT do it.
mini really highlights what you can/can't do... for anyone with rudimentary competent groundies (4.0+), it's pretty easy to do.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
True. I suspect that @cha cha was doing it incorrectly (and for the wrong reasons).
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
Even those that play tournaments every summer in extreme humidity generally need a week or two to acclimate. I used to have a hard first week wondering how I would ever finish a singles match … and two weeks later 3 set match no problem. I have no idea how the body adjusts … but it does.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
When I first came down here in January, the hardest part about playing in 100F and high humidity was the cardio load. Your heart has to work 4x as hard as normal just to pump blood to your skin surface for cooling.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
lol. Alrighty.
ByeByePoly
Talk Tennis Guru
What would these entertaining mini threads be without the “you just can’t f***ing do it because you suck and your mom doesn’t love you” comment.
How you doing? Hope you survived this last year of Walrus.
