Amarissa Toth

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Glad to see her getting called out by peers for her disgusting display.

Not a good way to start her career as a player. Good luck finding friends/hitting partners.


 

Pass750

Professional
Can someone explain what's so outrageous about wiping a mark, AFTER the umpire already ruled the point?

Seems like there's an overreaction, to put it mildly. First and foremost from Shuai, who seems to have some mental issues...
In that context it doesn’t sound so bad. But everything else that did and didn’t happen before and after that is the issue.

She should have conceded the point, she knew damn well it was in.
 

jimmy8

Legend
Toth said in a statement on her Facebook. "I am extremely sorry for what happened, I respect Zhang Shuai as a player and as a person. It was never my intention to disrespect, hurt or upset anybody, let alone Zhang Shuai.

"I do realize I shouldn’t have celebrated the way I celebrated after the match and I’m sorry for that."
 

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
Can someone explain what's so outrageous about wiping a mark, AFTER the umpire already ruled the point?

Seems like there's an overreaction, to put it mildly. First and foremost from Shuai, who seems to have some mental issues...
I’m assuming you have never played the game because if you have, and you played on a clay-court you absolutely do not do this. It is a huge no no.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Maybe point out what is wrong about what she is supporting here instead of conveniently putting the "woke" label on her?
From my experience, people using "woke" unironically are basically just holding up a big sign that says "I'm a dumbass." Funny how most of those quacks seem to be a fan of the same player too :unsure:

As for the topic, it's a good point. The WTA seem to be more catty in general, and doing **** to to give yourself a bad rep is just going to alienate more potential friends away from you.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
What I the Hindustan times? When you have to dig that deep for a WTA article you are likely trolling.
Wiping a mark after an opponent loses the call is fine. I always clear lines when there’s ball marks nearby. You don’t want confusion with multiple marks near lines. It’s really the umpires job to call the marks fairly.

And who has a panic attack after one blown line call? Honestly some of these players are so fragile. When did humans become like this?
 
I’m tired of Martina preaching.Can she please leave tennis.She is horrible She became such toxic woke warrior .
She's not woke at all regarding transppl. She
I’m tired of Martina preaching.Can she please leave tennis.She is horrible She became such toxic woke warrior .
I can't take her obessive trans views. That said, I'm a liberal and I could never listen to a far right tennis broadcaster. Say in comparison of the opposite views-Bongino broadcasting tennis? No thanks. Back to the topic, the player quits at 5-5 in the 1st over one point? Take it out on the ball and beat the hometown girl.
 

Double Fault

Semi-Pro
Toth just became the most hated player on the WTA.

As others have said, if you've played in clay you know that wiping marks is a huge no-no. While they are typically wiped shortly after players have agreed on the call, clearly Zhang still had a problem with what was happening and was requesting someone to come down and take a look, if I saw the video correctly. Even if Zhang's efforts were pointless, the right thing to do was to leave the mark. She walked diagonally across the entire court to erase the mark and aggravate the situation. And she did it to one of the most liked players in the WTA.

To make things worse, Toth's apology was the most scripted, disingenuous, insincere, apology I've seen in a while.

I hope other players will remind her of this day on the court. Baindl already took care of day 1.
 

Wurm

Professional
Can someone explain what's so outrageous about wiping a mark, AFTER the umpire already ruled the point?

Seems like there's an overreaction, to put it mildly. First and foremost from Shuai, who seems to have some mental issues...

Not only after the umpire already ruled the point but after the next point, which is the usual acceptable delay we have at our club with wiping away marks - you don't wipe it away until it can no longer be disputed, but you can, and people regularly do, erase it so it can't cause a problem later on... as has happened on several occasions where the wrong mark has been pointed at.

The reaction seems to be a product of a lot of credulous responses to how certain people have packaged up a bunch of clips to make it, intentionally I believe, seem like Toth is the villain of the piece who caused Zhang's meltdown, then celebrated her victory by meltdown. The ensuing dogpile is very ugly and unpleasant to watch... particularly when it involves some big names of tennis.

The Umpire was the big problem. Toth was not faultless in the situation but she was really only guilty of a lapse of sportsmanship that's not uncommon on the tour.
 

Arak

Legend
People just love a witch-hunt. Tóth erased the mark two points later. It’s not her problem if Shuai was still obsessing about it. There was no way the umpire would reverse his decision after two more points played. That’s not how it works. I believe the problem here was Shuai herself who was having a nervous breakdown. Maybe she should stop playing until she gets properly treated. What she did was embarrassing. I fully understand and support players like Osaka who wouldn’t play if they felt they weren’t mentally healthy enough to take on the pressure.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
People just love a witch-hunt. Tóth erased the mark two points later. It’s not her problem if Shuai was still obsessing about it. There was no way the umpire would reverse his decision after two more points played. That’s not how it works. I believe the problem here was Shuai herself who was having a nervous breakdown. Maybe she should stop playing until she gets properly treated. What she did was embarrassing. I fully understand and support players like Osaka who wouldn’t play if they felt they weren’t mentally healthy enough to take on the pressure.

Agree with you that the next point after the disputed call had already been played, which Toth lost, when Toth erased the mark in frustration. This important point is missing in a lot of the original clips.

However no need to gaslight Shuai and talk about nervous breakdown and needing treatment. No need to go there. Even the big 3 have had moments they have lost it on the court. Shuai should have moved on but that doesn’t mean she has mental health issues.
 

Arak

Legend
Agree with you that the next point after the disputed call had already been played, which Toth lost, when Toth erased the mark in frustration. This important point is missing in a lot of the original clips.

However no need to gaslight Shuai and talk about nervous breakdown and needing treatment. No need to go there. Even the big 3 have had moments they have lost it on the court. Shuai should have moved on but that doesn’t mean she has mental health issues.
She spent a good 5 minutes disputing the call, then she made a big fuss about Tóth erasing the mark. I’m surprised she wasn’t even penalised. Quitting thereafter in a total meltdown. Does that look like the behaviour of a mentally healthy person?
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
Agree with you that the next point after the disputed call had already been played, which Toth lost, when Toth erased the mark in frustration. This important point is missing in a lot of the original clips.

However no need to gaslight Shuai and talk about nervous breakdown and needing treatment. No need to go there. Even the big 3 have had moments they have lost it on the court. Shuai should have moved on but that doesn’t mean she has mental health issues.
 
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tennis3

Hall of Fame
She spent a good 5 minutes disputing the call, then she made a big fuss about Tóth erasing the mark. I’m surprised she wasn’t even penalised. Quitting thereafter in a total meltdown. Does that look like the behaviour of a mentally healthy person?
Yes, it does. It's the kind of thing everyone prays will happen to them. Zhang basically hit the lottery and she knows it.

  • To be "wronged"
  • To have it caught on video
  • To have the world witness how you were wronged
  • Then to milk the incident for all it's worth.
  • Making your opponent "more evil than Hitler".
  • Making yourself the ultimate innocent victim of this "evil" person
  • To have celebrities come out in favor of you, "certifying" your innocent victim status and your opponents evil status

The "Martyr Card" (what we now call "shaming") is very powerful and very emotionally satisfying. I say let Zhang enjoy it and milk it for all it's worth. It's a Golden Opportunity for her. These don't come about everyday.

Yes, it used to be a sign of "good character" to accept that mistakes are made (possibly there might even be corruption) and just move on. Not anymore. Now even the slightest "injustice" in an invitation (a near mandatory invitation) to play the Martyr / Victim card for all it's worth. The audience loves it. And they are always looking for new "issues" they can get behind. This is now our favorite pastime.

That said, this one is already "old". Time for a new one.
 

jimmy8

Legend
She was really only guilty of a lapse of sportsmanship that's not uncommon on the tour.
It was only one thing.

It's not uncommon so I guess it's ok.

This is called minimizing.

Minimizing - A pattern of invalidation is a form of emotional abuse or gaslighting. it's a denial of you or your experience. It implies that you're wrong, overreacting, or lying. Abusers do this to turn things around and blame the victim and deny or minimize their abusive words or actions.

Emotional Invalidation: A Form of Emotional Abuse
 

Pass750

Professional
Toth just became the most hated player on the WTA.

As others have said, if you've played in clay you know that wiping marks is a huge no-no. While they are typically wiped shortly after players have agreed on the call, clearly Zhang still had a problem with what was happening and was requesting someone to come down and take a look, if I saw the video correctly. Even if Zhang's efforts were pointless, the right thing to do was to leave the mark. She walked diagonally across the entire court to erase the mark and aggravate the situation. And she did it to one of the most liked players in the WTA.

To make things worse, Toth's apology was the most scripted, disingenuous, insincere, apology I've seen in a while.

I hope other players will remind her of this day on the court. Baindl already took care of day 1.
She knew which mark it was and she knew it was in, she should have conceded point.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
She spent a good 5 minutes disputing the call, then she made a big fuss about Tóth erasing the mark. I’m surprised she wasn’t even penalised. Quitting thereafter in a total meltdown. Does that look like the behaviour of a mentally healthy person?

So if you argue for 5 mins you are mentally unhealthy and need treatment? C’mon
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
She knew which mark it was and she knew it was in, she should have conceded point.

No one does that. Are you saying every call Zhang got in her favor over the years there has never been a call that she knew she lucked out on? Those things even out and I can’t blame a player for not saying anything. Plus in all these cases we are assuming the player knew for sure it was a bad call that favored them.

Plus that’s not what Toth got ripped for. She was mainly ripped for the narrative that she went and erased the mark while Zhang was waiting for a supervisor. All of us who first saw the clips were led to believe that. Only later on as you saw the score and read more you realize that another point had already been played and Toth had lost that point. Zhang was still complaining about the disputed call at which point Toth in her frustration erased the mark.
 

jimmy8

Legend
No one does that. Are you saying every call Zhang got in her favor over the years there has never been a call that she knew she lucked out on? Those things even out and I can’t blame a player for not saying anything. Plus in all these cases we are assuming the player knew for sure it was a bad call that favored them.

Plus that’s not what Toth got ripped for. She was mainly ripped for the narrative that she went and erased the mark while Zhang was waiting for a supervisor. All of us who first saw the clips were led to believe that. Only later on as you saw the score and read more you realize that another point had already been played and Toth had lost that point. Zhang was still complaining about the disputed call at which point Toth in her frustration erased the mark.
No one concedes points so it's ok to keep quiet. It evens out so it's ok.

Cheating is ok as long as everyone is doing it.

Lance Armstrong cheating was ok because everyone was doing it. It evens out.
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
I’m tired of Martina preaching.Can she please leave tennis.She is horrible She became such toxic woke warrior .
Odd.

People who use "woke" unironically actually like Navratilova — due to her allegedly anti woke trans stance.

But I guess you are the extra ultra nutty wing of the wingnut culture warriors
 

Pass750

Professional
No one does that. Are you saying every call Zhang got in her favor over the years there has never been a call that she knew she lucked out on? Those things even out and I can’t blame a player for not saying anything. Plus in all these cases we are assuming the player knew for sure it was a bad call that favored them.

Plus that’s not what Toth got ripped for. She was mainly ripped for the narrative that she went and erased the mark while Zhang was waiting for a supervisor. All of us who first saw the clips were led to believe that. Only later on as you saw the score and read more you realize that another point had already been played and Toth had lost that point. Zhang was still complaining about the disputed call at which point Toth in her frustration erased the mark.
I have absolutely seen players concede points.
 

VS_Power

Rookie
The problem with Toth is she has a resting b**** face (RBF). She can literally just do nothing and look like an a-hole.

Plus, for some reason, the fact that it's WTA contributes. If any male player did the same thing I wouldn't think twice about it, heck, I'd almost expect it.

That said, Toth did a few things I really dislike:
  1. Laugh at Shuai as she was getting heckled by the crowd
  2. Erase the mark despite Shuai pleading her not to
  3. Post default celebration
Ultimately though, RBF was her downfall. Hope she can work on that in the future.
 

leodevlin

Semi-Pro
People just love a witch-hunt. Tóth erased the mark two points later. It’s not her problem if Shuai was still obsessing about it. There was no way the umpire would reverse his decision after two more points played. That’s not how it works. I believe the problem here was Shuai herself who was having a nervous breakdown. Maybe she should stop playing until she gets properly treated. What she did was embarrassing. I fully understand and support players like Osaka who wouldn’t play if they felt they weren’t mentally healthy enough to take on the pressure.
How do we know it was two points after?
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
I have absolutely seen players concede points.

I have seen too. I have seen the same players stay quiet on other points that looked clearly wrong. I don’t blame them or expect them to make that call.

Also as mentioned none of us can know for sure if Toth absolutely knew it was cheating. The umpire also got it wrong after going there.

Again, Toth was ripped mainly for erasing the mark though the context was lost on many who ripped her. Then when they found out that she did that after another point was already over, then said she should have called it out in the first place.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
I'm confused about the whole thing:

I read a NYT Post article (low standards of journalism) that claimed that the umpire didn't check the mark. There is another YouTube video that omits the umpire checking the mark. Bizarre.

Yet, in this video, the umpire clearly checks the mark and says it's out:

After a mark has been checked, it's common for a player to rub it out.

Yet, this ball did seem to be good from what I can see. The whole thing is bizarre to me, especially the reporting around it and the umpire's decision. All the more reason to have electronic line calling in all matches on all surfaces.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Why didn't the chair umpire just go down and look at the mark? That would've prevented everything that happened afterwards.
The umpire did go and look at it and called it out though from what most of us saw the mark looked clearly on the line.
 
Toth just became the most hated player on the WTA.

As others have said, if you've played in clay you know that wiping marks is a huge no-no. While they are typically wiped shortly after players have agreed on the call, clearly Zhang still had a problem with what was happening and was requesting someone to come down and take a look, if I saw the video correctly. Even if Zhang's efforts were pointless, the right thing to do was to leave the mark. She walked diagonally across the entire court to erase the mark and aggravate the situation. And she did it to one of the most liked players in the WTA.

To make things worse, Toth's apology was the most scripted, disingenuous, insincere, apology I've seen in a while.

I hope other players will remind her of this day on the court. Baindl already took care of day 1.
not a big deal. they are all trying to win, sportsmanship is overrated. all these competitors do whatever they can to win if they can get away with it, it's so obvious. competition cannot have sportsmanship.
 
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big ted

Legend
is it too unwoke to call out shuai for retiring after having a panic attack from her own meltdown?!?!
im starting to think professional tennis players arent that professional anymore if some of them
cant even finish matches becuz of their nerves
 

jimmy8

Legend
I have seen too. I have seen the same players stay quiet on other points that looked clearly wrong. I don’t blame them or expect them to make that call.

Also as mentioned none of us can know for sure if Toth absolutely knew it was cheating. The umpire also got it wrong after going there.

Again, Toth was ripped mainly for erasing the mark though the context was lost on many who ripped her. Then when they found out that she did that after another point was already over, then said she should have called it out in the first place.
First you said 'no one does that.'

Then you say 'I have seen too.'

Which one is it?

But then you say these honest people who conceded points later kept quiet about an obvious bad call. And then you excuse the bad behavior of keeping quiet by saying you don't blame them and don't expect them to make that call.

So in your opinion everyone is a cheater and it's ok to cheat because everyone does it. And it all evens out.

Well, in some matches there's 2 bad calls on each side and it evens out. In some matches there's 4 bad calls all on one side and it doesn't even out. So your theory of evening out doesn't actually work. And your theory of everyone cheats so it's ok doesn't work either.
 
What a great evaluation of humankind.
unfortunately a true assessment. sports is an obsession with winning, people only care about winners. To say sports should have sportsmanship and fair play is hypocritical, laughable, and a facade when everything is about winning and gaining an edge.
 
is it too unwoke to call out shuai for retiring after having a panic attack from her own meltdown?!?!
im starting to think professional tennis players arent that professional anymore if some of them
cant even finish matches becuz of their nerves
shuai was weak there for watever reason.
 
First you said 'no one does that.'

Then you say 'I have seen too.'

Which one is it?

But then you say these honest people who conceded points later kept quiet about an obvious bad call. And then you excuse the bad behavior of keeping quiet by saying you don't blame them and don't expect them to make that call.

So in your opinion everyone is a cheater and it's ok to cheat because everyone does it. And it all evens out.

Well, in some matches there's 2 bad calls on each side and it evens out. In some matches there's 4 bad calls all on one side and it doesn't even out. So your theory of evening out doesn't actually work. And your theory of everyone cheats so it's ok doesn't work either.
cheating, winning, and gaining an edge is literally the obsession in sports. it's all about winning. to claim fair play is a value of sports is to claim fair play is a value in winning wars, it doesn't exist.
 

Topspin_80

Hall of Fame
She spent a good 5 minutes disputing the call, then she made a big fuss about Tóth erasing the mark. I’m surprised she wasn’t even penalised. Quitting thereafter in a total meltdown. Does that look like the behaviour of a mentally healthy person?
Let me ask you a question Arak, was the umpire call correct? yes or not
 

jimmy8

Legend
unfortunately a true assessment. sports is an obsession with winning, people only care about winners. To say sports should have sportsmanship and fair play is hypocritical, laughable, and a facade when everything is about winning and gaining an edge.
cheating, winning, and gaining an edge is literally the obsession in sports. it's all about winning. to claim fair play is a value of sports is to claim fair play is a value in winning wars, it doesn't exist.
Did you watch the movie 'Lone Survivor' with Mark Wahlberg? It's based on a true story. They had honor and let some farmers go. Then later a villager helped a US soldier to survive. I guess your response will be that the movie is a lie. War is just about winning.

So your philosophy is cheating is ok because everyone does it. Fair play doesn't exist in sports and in war. I'll be sure to start cheating from now on so I can even the playing field. Thanks!
 
Did you watch the movie 'Lone Survivor' with Mark Wahlberg? It's based on a true story. They had honor and let some farmers go. Then later a villager helped a US soldier to survive. I guess your response will be that the movie is a lie. War is just about winning.

So your philosophy is cheating is ok because everyone does it. Fair play doesn't exist in sports and in war. I'll be sure to start cheating from now on so I can even the playing field. Thanks!
so a couple soldiers let farmers go and war is all fair play lol come on man goodness that doesn't negate all the instances of savagery in war in order to win be real man. sports is all about winning like war, competitors do whatever to gain an edge they can get away with. if you want sportsmanship, make it not about winning anymore.
 
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