Amazing New York Times article on Stan's backhand

[PaulC]

All the Nadal fans here should take it easy... :mrgreen:

The author of the article was simply trying to say Stan's OHBH could be the best among all the current pros who play OHBH.

The reference to Nadal is only for COMPARISON against Federer.

Unlike Federer, Stan's BH itself did NOT break against Nadal even in the 10+ matches that he lost to him if you indeed watched them carefully.

But a good BH ALONE is not suffice to win against Nadal, like many have already mentioned here, period.

Anywho... I'd call this a TRUE topspin OHBH, as the racket face finished COMPLETELY OVER the ball.

-- Unlike folks such as Almagro, Gasquet or Federer etc who all finished with a "BLOCKING" racket face (vertical or to the sky) that spells a FLAT or a sitting "topspin" (if you seriously want to call them topspin) shot if they don't put enough pace on it...

See if Dimitorv can pick up a little bit more from Stan, given that they're practice and double partners every now and then :mrgreen:

 

[BevelDevil]

Anywho... I'd call this a TRUE topspin OHBH, as the racket face finished COMPLETELY OVER the ball.

I know what you mean by stan's finish, but that is merely post shot wrist action.

Yeah, I noticed that too. The "flipping" of the face by the finish could just be a product of his rotation through contact.

Having said that, I suspect Stan uses his wrist a lot on his shot, for whatever purpose.

Btw, I saw a Gasquet graphic that showed rpms higher than Stan's. Forgot the actual number though. I posted it in an earlier thread.

See if Dimitorv can pick up a little bit more from Stan, given that they're practice and double partners every now and then :mrgreen:

Interesting that Dimitrov has the second fastest bh on the list.

 

[Chopin]

As others have said, lots of great stuff from the New York Times. I wish there was the same interest/coverage in the U.S. surrounding other majors. Well, actually, I guess that's another reason the U.S. Open is special for Americans.

 

[Avles]

Cool graphics although some things seemed questionable. I didn't get the second-last slide at all-- what's the difference between "underspin" and "backhand slice," is that really a drop shot, and what is "volley options" supposed to mean? And it's weird to call the BH slice and drop shots advantages of the 1HBH since every player hits those. Maybe 1HBH players are a little better with them but that's questionable and really beside the point. That slide seemed like a bit of a mess.

I also thought the correction was funny:

Correction: August 25, 2014

An earlier version of a caption with this interactive feature misidentified the type of spin Stan Wawrinka is shown using on his one-handed backhand shot. It is topspin, not backspin.

Quite an error in a feature about the mechanics of a tennis stroke...

 

[jussumman]

This is the coolest tennis related article I've ever seen.

 

[jussumman]

Cool graphics although some things seemed questionable. I didn't get the second-last slide at all-- what's the difference between "underspin" and "backhand slice," is that really a drop shot, and what is "volley options" supposed to mean? And it's weird to call the BH slice and drop shots advantages of the 1HBH since every player hits those. Maybe 1HBH players are a little better with them but that's questionable and really beside the point. That slide seemed like a bit of a mess.

I also thought the correction was funny:

Quite an error in a feature about the mechanics of a tennis stroke...

They are not as knowledgeable about tennis as you.

 

[Vrad]

Quite an error in a feature about the mechanics of a tennis stroke...

The caption people (and the headlines people, for that matter) are almost always different from the people writing the content. The NYTimes is one of the few publications that would actually submit a correction about that.

Really interesting article. The ESPN commentators were having a discussion about the advantages/disadvantages of the 1HBH vs the 2HBH and chose te 2 over the 1 because of the advantage it gave plaers on the serve return. I wonder I we will see hybrid players who use the 2HBH for returns and 1HBH otherwise.

 

[PaulC]

Trust me, Gasquet, Almagro, and fed hit plenty of top on their backhands. I know what you mean by stan's finish, but that is merely post shot wrist action.

Dimmitrov bh is technically very different to stan's, keeps his right shoulder on the shot a lot longer as most players would get taught. Stan really opens his hips and shoulders more which is where he gets a lot of power. Harder to time the shot like this unless you have a really conventional backhand grip.

Yeah, I noticed that too. The "flipping" of the face by the finish could just be a product of his rotation through contact.

Having said that, I suspect Stan uses his wrist a lot on his shot, for whatever purpose.

Btw, I saw a Gasquet graphic that showed rpms higher than Stan's. Forgot the actual number though. I posted it in an earlier thread.

Interesting that Dimitrov has the second fastest bh on the list.

Folks, I think I'll need to clarify a few things here:

1. I'm not saying the Almagro/Gasquet/Federer's way of finishing with a "blocking" racket face can not produce decent topspin, but from my observation, during rally shots, 1 out of 3 or 4 will end up "sit".

VS

Stan's topspin BH lands and jumps forward heavily in a more CONSISTENT manner, there is virtually NO "sitting" shots once he unleash the BH.



2. Stan's racket finish over the top of the tennis ball - It's NOT resulted from a wrist action, it's the result of him turning the ENTIRE forearm over. (kinda like many folks FH topspin "windshield wiper" forearm action but on a BH)

How do I know?

My nephew (I was with him) had the privilege of asking him that after one of his practice session several years ago, while he was signing autograph for him, and he was also kind enough to warn and correct him NOT to turn the wrist but turn the entire forearm over (by emphasize the ellow being the pivotal point) instead, to avoid getting hurt while the little guy was trying to mimic him with a awkward wrist turn. :mrgreen:



3. Dimitrov's BH may be faster and Gasquet's may have more RPM, so....?

My question or point (actually maybe also the author's) is, can either guys (or anyone else) out-power or outlast Stan in a BH to BH rally battle?

-- Both of them have actually met Stan in tournies a few times, but as many video junkies (not me can show you, Stan crushed them BH to BH in those encounters. :mrgreen:

 

[PrinceMoron]

Break point down backhand passing shot against Nadal in WO final is all that counts
Can you hit the ultimate pressure shot?

 

[PaulC]

Break point down backhand passing shot against Nadal in WO final is all that counts
Can you hit the ultimate pressure shot?

Stan did exactly that repeatedly in AO Final...

OK... Nadal was hurt, and it's not on grass :mrgreen:

 

[jaggy]

I am enjoying the Cuevas bh

 

[Avles]

They are not as knowledgeable about tennis as you.

Hey nice snark, but can you explain what "volley options" are and how they're relevant? What's the difference between "underspin" and "backhand slice?" Why would you use a picture of a lunging defensive slice to illustrate the 1HBH's advantage in "court coverage" when probably every single player on tour hits that defensive slice in that situation?

Some good info in the slideshow but some questionable/misleading stuff as well, I think-- if you've got anything substantive to say about it I'm all ears...

 

[dje31]

Neat, but technically, to be more accurate, that's more of an "infographic" than an "article." Unless I missed the actual article part.

 

[Tennis_Bum]

That was a great article, thanks for posting it.

I like Stan, but if one woke up from a decade long nap and read this, one might assume that he owns Nadal, or at least does very well against him. I enjoyed that Aussie Open win as much as anybody, but he came to the "counter action" vs Nadal kinda late in the day, didn't he(about 10 years and 13 losses in, that is)? Also, seems to me the two hander has more options, and the slice option mentioned is, IMO, kinda misleading, it generally means you didn't have time to come over the ball.

He lost because he didn't believe he could win against top players not because of his one-hander. His backhand is one of the best in the world period.

 

[thomasferrett]

Folks, I think I'll need to clarify a few things here:

1. I'm not saying the Almagro/Gasquet/Federer's way of finishing with a "blocking" racket face can not produce decent topspin, but from my observation, during rally shots, 1 out of 3 or 4 will end up "sit".

VS

Stan's topspin BH lands and jumps forward heavily in a more CONSISTENT manner, there is virtually NO "sitting" shots once he unleash the BH.



2. Stan's racket finish over the top of the tennis ball - It's NOT resulted from a wrist action, it's the result of him turning the ENTIRE forearm over. (kinda like many folks FH topspin "windshield wiper" forearm action but on a BH)

How do I know?

My nephew (I was with him) had the privilege of asking him that after one of his practice session several years ago, while he was signing autograph for him, and he was also kind enough to warn and correct him NOT to turn the wrist but turn the entire forearm over (by emphasize the ellow being the pivotal point) instead, to avoid getting hurt while the little guy was trying to mimic him with a awkward wrist turn. :mrgreen:



3. Dimitrov's BH may be faster and Gasquet's may have more RPM, so....?

My question or point (actually maybe also the author's) is, can either guys (or anyone else) out-power or outlast Stan in a BH to BH rally battle?

-- Both of them have actually met Stan in tournies a few times, but as many video junkies (not me can show you, Stan crushed them BH to BH in those encounters. :mrgreen:

PaulC, I'm not understanding why you're differentiating Wawrinka's backhand from Almagro's based on forearm supination when they both do it...?

Almagro definitely supinates through the backhand - especially when the ball gets high on him. Watch the backhand at 0:14 in the following link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNtDjMcbWM8. Look at the backhand at 7:50 in the following link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thInteeMNbI. That is a definite supination in both cases - you can tell because the racket undergoes a characteristic '360' motion near the end of the stroke.

How is that different to Wawrinka's backhand? Almagro does not hit a loopy backhand ball like Gasquet - he crushes it hard direct, yet still with heavy topspin.

Mechanically aren't Wawrinka's and Almagro's backhand the same? Or if they're different - how?

And I've seen Almagro crush Wawrinka in bh-to-bh rallies (I think when they met at the AO), also I can say with certainty that Almagro crushes Gasquet in bh-to-bh rallies - even when Almagro ends up choking the match away like in Miami 2013. Gasquet has to get to the net to beat Almagro because he knows he'll be out-powered in both a fh-to-fh and bh-to-bh exchange from the baseline.