America Now Thinks Serena Williams Is The Greatest Tennis Player Ever

[Man of steel]

None of this makes her an athlete-she gets blown up early in matches, she is to Tennis what Ultimate Warrior was to wrestling. Hey if you enjoy watching her sitting back behind the baseline & hitting the ball at fragile women that cannot match her physically then great, it is incredibly effective, but not remotely aesthetically pleasing.

What in gods name are you talking about. I''ve never heard so much drivel in all my life. You call lisicki and kuznetsova athletes and yet you can't call serena an athlete even though she's far superior than both athletically. Faster than both, more flexible and stronger.
When have you seen serena getting tired in a match. She's clearly superior to the rest.
Hell she played so many 3 set matches last year and was still in better shape at the age of 33/4 than the entire field.
You're not making an ounce of sense.

 

[Man of steel]

prime to prime is an unfair comparison, bring serena back to the 90s she wouldn't be so strong physically, and i doubt she would be able to play until mid 30s without advanced medicines of today.

and the WTA in the last few years is really a bit of a joke. Serena's strongest competition have all retired with nobody else to pick up.

Serena played in the 90's are you forgetting. Granted it was at the late 90's.
She was already a top 10 player and winning slams at the age of 17.
She holds the record for the fewest amount of matches played before beating two top 10 players in tournament at the age of 16.
This was all in the 90's.
She would be the exactly the same size in the 90's. Serena as a teenager was physically already superior than most every other girl. There were barely any actual athletes in the 90's.
Why do you think its commonly known that womens tennis changed in terms of physically when serena and venus arrived on the scene.

 

[Soul_Evisceration]

You are out of your mind. One of the most talented quarterbacks to ever touch a football. LOL. Pick another hobby.

You shouldn't watch NFL at all if you believe Peyton Manning is an all time great being the biggest choker of all time in playoffs who's lucky to even have 1 SuperBowl ring. Don't make yourself look like a bigger ID10T than you already are.

 

[NoleFam]

You shouldn't watch NFL at all if you believe Peyton Manning is an all time great being the biggest choker of all time in playoffs who's lucky to even have 1 SuperBowl ring. Don't make yourself look like a bigger ID10T than you already are.

LOL...dude I take it that you don't like Peyton but his stats speak for themselves. Anybody that knows football would rate Peyton Manning as one of the top 5 quarterbacks of all time, one SB or not.

Peyton Manning's regular season stats are eye popping. He's been named MVP a league record five times, while making the Pro Bowl 14 times thus far. He's thrown the most touchdown passes ever (530) and the most in a single season (55).

On top of his record-breaking stats, Manning is a surgeon in the pocket. He is regarded as one of the smartest players to ever play the game.

And that's just a fraction of the records he holds...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/photos/best-quarterbacks-ever/3 (Ranked #3)

http://nesn.com/playlist/top-10-nfl...e-list-gives-edge-to-recent-signal-callers/9/ (Ranked #3)

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...land-patriots-dallas-cowboys-countdown-112315 (Ranked #3)

Dude pick a new hobby.

 

[PeterHo]

Serena played in the 90's are you forgetting. Granted it was at the late 90's.
She was already a top 10 player and winning slams at the age of 17.
She holds the record for the fewest amount of matches played before beating two top 10 players in tournament at the age of 16.
This was all in the 90's.
She would be the exactly the same size in the 90's. Serena as a teenager was physically already superior than most every other girl. There were barely any actual athletes in the 90's.
Why do you think its commonly known that womens tennis changed in terms of physically when serena and venus arrived on the scene.

What I mean is if she was the same age as those greats, eg Graf, only then a fair comparison can be made prime to prime.

 

[Mr.Lob]

Are you saying those three players are better than SW? I somehow don't see that, and I am not a SW fan. I think Serena Williams trounces all of them if they were to all meet in their prime.

She is horrible to watch, but I think SW beats the Prime Graf, and even, Seles. Honestly, Seles' career was cut short due to a psychotic a-hole, but I thought at the time that Seles could go on to be the GOAT... Too bad...

Different eras can't really compare on who will beat who (though do think prime Graf would beat prime Serena). But who was the greater tennis player, who had the greater careers in terms of wins, quality of competition, what they gave to the game... I'd list my 3 ahead of Serena.

Agree with Seles. But look at Evert and Navratilova's slam count. Australian Open was a joke, and French skipped by many. So don't feel solely using a total slam count is an accurate measurement of who is "greater".

 

[MatsPhilander]

What in gods name are you talking about. I''ve never heard so much drivel in all my life. You call lisicki and kuznetsova athletes and yet you can't call serena an athlete even though she's far superior than both athletically. Faster than both, more flexible and stronger.
When have you seen serena getting tired in a match. She's clearly superior to the rest.
Hell she played so many 3 set matches last year and was still in better shape at the age of 33/4 than the entire field.
You're not making an ounce of sense.

Er every match where she huffs & puffs claiming some mystery virus that seems to only affect her. She is superior in strength/power yes, but in terms of movement she is lacking. Fact is she carries far too much bulk for a professional sportsperson-she has been lucky enough to get away with it because the majority of her opponents are mental midgets in awe of her track record & physically weak as well.

I am not knocking what she does as it works for her, even though it isn't remotely entertaining or pleasant to watch-just pointing out that she isn't an athlete, just a powerhouse who bullies people around with big serves & power game.

 

[NoleFam]

Different eras can't really compare on who will beat who (though do think prime Graf would beat prime Serena). But who was the greater tennis player, who had the greater careers in terms of wins, quality of competition, what they gave to the game... I'd list my 3 ahead of Serena.

Agree with Seles. But look at Evert and Navratilova's slam count. Australian Open was a joke, and French skipped by many. So don't feel solely using a total slam count is an accurate measurement of who is "greater".

A 17 year old Serena beat Steffi and you think she can beat prime Serena? Which prime Serena? The one that was around 20-21 years old....the one that was around 26-27 years old...Or the one after 30? Serena is better than Steffi and any other female player for that matter. In men's tennis, I don't believe in a GOAT because it's too close to call with a few players. In women's tennis, Serena is the GOAT because no one could live with her on a tennis court at the peak of her powers.

 

[Vanhool]

Er every match where she huffs & puffs claiming some mystery virus that seems to only affect her. She is superior in strength/power yes, but in terms of movement she is lacking. Fact is she carries far too much bulk for a professional sportsperson-she has been lucky enough to get away with it because the majority of her opponents are mental midgets in awe of her track record & physically weak as well.

I am not knocking what she does as it works for her, even though it isn't remotely entertaining or pleasant to watch-just pointing out that she isn't an athlete, just a powerhouse who bullies people around with big serves & power game.

She huffs and puffs because she has permament lung damage. Her trainer had to teach her how to play even when she's out of breath.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-serena-williams-produced-her-second-act-1440610578

 

[Man of steel]

Er every match where she huffs & puffs claiming some mystery virus that seems to only affect her. She is superior in strength/power yes, but in terms of movement she is lacking. Fact is she carries far too much bulk for a professional sportsperson-she has been lucky enough to get away with it because the majority of her opponents are mental midgets in awe of her track record & physically weak as well.

I am not knocking what she does as it works for her, even though it isn't remotely entertaining or pleasant to watch-just pointing out that she isn't an athlete, just a powerhouse who bullies people around with big serves & power game.

In terms of movement she is lacking?
Lol serena is one of the best movers on tour even at the ripe old age of 34. She is one of the best defenders out there currently and one of the best all time.

Fact of the matter is you don't know anything if you think she's carrying to much bulk" which she isn't. She's not lacking in speed or movement. A person of serena's calibre doesn't win 21 GS without being one of the best movers. She's not kvitova/davenport/sharapova who all rely on power but are poor movers.

And who are these mental midgets. As i recall she has a winning record against every player in the last 15-20 years. So are all these players mental midgets?

Not to mention someone being pleasing to watch is completely subjective. If thats how you feel fine but don't state that as if its a fact and not your own deluded opinion.

And she only dominates because of a big serve and a power game. Now this statement truly verifies the fact that you know nothing about tennis.
There's no point even talking to you because you're an idiot who's just trolling and i'm not really bothered

 

[Man of steel]

Different eras can't really compare on who will beat who (though do think prime Graf would beat prime Serena). But who was the greater tennis player, who had the greater careers in terms of wins, quality of competition, what they gave to the game... I'd list my 3 ahead of Serena.

Agree with Seles. But look at Evert and Navratilova's slam count. Australian Open was a joke, and French skipped by many. So don't feel solely using a total slam count is an accurate measurement of who is "greater".

Errr navratilova didn't miss and FO's or AO's during her prime. ie from 80's and onwards. Evert is really the only one that mossed out. But then it was her choice and we can't start handing out GS to her because she decided not to go.
Not to mention AO was on grass and it wasn't exactly her best surface.

 

[Mr.Lob]

A 17 year old Serena beat Steffi and you think she can beat prime Serena? Which prime Serena? The one that was around 20-21 years old....the one that was around 26-27 years old...Or the one after 30? Serena is better than Steffi and any other female player for that matter. In men's tennis, I don't believe in a GOAT because it's too close to call with a few players. In women's tennis, Serena is the GOAT because no one could live with her on a tennis court at the peak of her powers.

Serena beat Graf at the tail end of Grafs career where she had gone thru many injuries. I believe an old and worn Graf also beat a young and healthy Serena.

There can be only one prime Serena. Maybe it looks like other prime Serenas because the level of her competition has steadily dropped throughout her career... evidenced by last year's cake walk to slam finals. Serena has really never had to face a tier one great during her career. Closest is high tier two Venus.

 

[Mr.Lob]

Errr navratilova didn't miss and FO's or AO's during her prime. ie from 80's and onwards. Evert is really the only one that mossed out. But then it was her choice and we can't start handing out GS to her because she decided not to go.
Not to mention AO was on grass and it wasn't exactly her best surface.

Different times, different priorities. Winning titles was more a priority than winning tier 2 slams in the Evert/Navratilova era. What was important to the players should be evaluated, not what was important to people sitting in the stands.

 

[Man of steel]

Serena beat Graf at the tail end of Grafs career where she had gone thru many injuries. I believe an old and worn Graf also beat a young and healthy Serena.

There can be only one prime Serena. Maybe it looks like other prime Serenas because the level of her competition has steadily dropped throughout her career... evidenced by last year's cake walk to slam finals. Serena has really never had to face a tier one great during her career. Closest is high tier two Venus.

And steffi beat evert and navratilova at the tail end of theirs. Graf was only 28/29 when they met. Serena was 17 and inexperience youth who hadn't even completed her second season on tour.
And how cam there be only 1 prime serena. Your prime happens over a long period of time. The question is whether your are playing at your best ie peak. 20/21-32 is prime serena. 22/3 is peak serena.
Learn the difference

What and graf didn't have cake walks to slam finals. What do you call the slams post seles stabbing. Yeah ASV and novatna were the toughest competition lol

So i guess henin, capriati, davenport, clijsters, sharapova and hingis are all mediocre players.

 

[Vanhool]

prime to prime is an unfair comparison, bring serena back to the 90s she wouldn't be so strong physically, and i doubt she would be able to play until mid 30s without advanced medicines of today.

and the WTA in the last few years is really a bit of a joke. Serena's strongest competition have all retired with nobody else to pick up.

Using your logic, there should be lots of players just as strong as Serena and playing great into their 30s. Well, she is the same age Henin and Hingis and where are they? They didn't get crazy strong and overcome their injuries, even with access to everything Serena has access to. What about the younger generation? Why aren't they even bigger and stronger than Serena? It's not Serena's fault if the other players aren't as driven as her to overcome obstacles and maximize their potential (or just as physically gifted, if you want to change the argument from era to something else).

Also, Graf is the only modern goat to retire that young. Somehow BJK, Court, Nav and Evert managed to go into their 30s and take on all the teen challengers (all while playing doubles, except evert). Steffi wouldn't give the next generation their chance to prove (or disprove) themselves like the oldies gave her, which is a bummer.

 

[tennisaddict]

How many majors would Navatilova or Chris Evert had if their careers did not overlap ?

Looking at just the absolute major count is outright silly.

 

[PeterHo]

Using your logic, there should be lots of players just as strong as Serena and playing great into their 30s. Well, she is the same age Henin and Hingis and where are they? They didn't get crazy strong and overcome their injuries, even with access to everything Serena has access to. What about the younger generation? Why aren't they even bigger and stronger than Serena? It's not Serena's fault if the other players aren't as driven as her to overcome obstacles and maximize their potential (or just as physically gifted, if you want to change the argument from era to something else).

Also, Graf is the only modern goat to retire that young. Somehow BJK, Court, Nav and Evert managed to go into their 30s and take on all the teen challengers (all while playing doubles, except evert). Steffi wouldn't give the next generation their chance to prove (or disprove) themselves like the oldies gave her, which is a bummer.

I think henin and hingis gave more challenge to Serena than the players currently on tour, no?

Serena is great no doubt. But compared to Graf she still has some work to do.

 

[Vanhool]

I think henin and hingis gave more challenge to Serena than the players currently on tour, no?

Serena is great no doubt. But compared to Graf she still has some work to do.

Well, they both retired young. Jankovic gave Serena trouble for a while. So did Sharapova and others.

I wouldn't say who is better, Graf or Serena. Both have things that distinguish them from each other and Serena is also not done yet. Even then, things like this are unprovable. Both are goats of their era, which is enough for me. I just think Serena doesn't get enough respect on this board and it makes me grumpy.

 

[HRB]

I honestly did not know and don't know too much about her personal life. She seems like such a nice person... smiling all the time... Maybe she forgot where she was... being drunk.

All I know of Hingis is that she was an artistic player who played beautiful tennis.

Why does pointing out facts make me a ******? If it said sportsperson then fine, but she isn't an athlete-Lisicki & Kuznetsova are also both big lasses but are athletic. Venus is an athelte, Sugapoova etc.

You're dumba## statements keep proving my original statement!! You're making this so easy..unanimous decision.

 

[HRB]

None of this makes her an athlete-she gets blown up early in matches, she is to Tennis what Ultimate Warrior was to wrestling. Hey if you enjoy watching her sitting back behind the baseline & hitting the ball at fragile women that cannot match her physically then great, it is incredibly effective, but not remotely aesthetically pleasing.

You just referenced Pro Wrestling. CREDIBILITY SHOT TO HELL!!! Dude, just shut the eff up, your making this harder on yourself. LMAO.

 

[HRB]

I like Hingis, but I agree with your point. She said some pretty loathsome things during her early years.

I also hate when people do not tip. She should have left a huge tip. She can afford it. It really means so much to people in the serving industry. Apparently, Pete Sampras had a similar problem with being a cheap tipper. Being a cheap tipper is better than leaving no tip at all though.

Jim Rome always says that the one thing you never want to be called out for is being cheap..his wife gets pissed when he over tips 99% of the time...playing it safe!

 

[mhkeuns]

Not sure if you are upset that I did not know much of her personal life, but I honestly don't. I am sure she is spoiled and act as such. I also hate people who didn't/don't tip well, especially if I know the server has busted his/her ass doing the job.

But it shouldn't really be a topic to be argued over..., especially on this forum.

BTW, IIRC, she did say some highly controversial things when she was briefly on top, but I think that's more-or-less her wanting to be in the spotlight, whether good or bad.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

It has no bearing on her tennis achievements, yes. Anyhow, as I said before, I see her as more of a second tier great. I agree with the earlier comments that basically Graf retired before there was a chance for Serena to play her at the latter's peak. But that is not Graf's fault and Sampras did likewise. At least Graf had kept the H2H against both the Williams sisters clean when she retired while Sampras is 0-1 against Fed. I don't seem to find the outcome to be so obvious on fast grass with 90s equipment. In modern conditions, yes, Serena will beat Graf because they would neutralise her slice and she was so reluctant to hit through, unlike Henin. Could be pretty tough on clay too.

 

[rossi46]

North and South America ??

 

[HRB]

Not sure if you are upset that I did not know much of her personal life, but I honestly don't. I am sure she is spoiled and act as such. I also hate people who didn't/don't tip well, especially if I know the server has busteed his/her ass doing the job.

But it shouldn't really be a topic to be argued over..., especially in this forum.

BTW, IIRC, she did say some highly controversial things when she was briefly in top, but I think that's more-or-less her wanting to be in the spotlight, whether good or bad.

Not really that concerned, it is just Hingis is the go to when the haters are spewing their BS about the Williams sisters,so just wanted to remind folks of some of her less than stellar moments. For all I know she most likely has her crew pay all her bills, so I told my friend that night that maybe she thought whoever handled the bill put a tip on there...we'd like to think at least!

I'll tell you one thing she is champ at, aging very well. I found nothing attractive about the "Chuckie" faced Hingis of old, but dam she is a fit and attractive 30 something!

 

[HRB]

Well, they both retired young. Jankovic gave Serena trouble for a while. So did Sharapova and othhers.

I wouldn't say who is better, Graf or Serena. Both have things that distinguish them from each other and Serena is also not done yet. Even then, things like this are unprovable. Both are goats of their era, which is enough for me. I just think Serena doesn't get enough respect on this board and it makes me grumpy.[/QUOT
Don't let it get you grumpy, just remind yourself you are on a pretty ATP biased message board for one, and Steffi didn't have racism and inadequate males scared of muscular and strong woman to deal with. These are the same guys who think they could win a match against a WTA player, let alone an ITF player who'd beat them 1 and love 9 times out of 10. Take solace in that.

 

[Soul_Evisceration]

LOL...dude I take it that you don't like Peyton but his stats speak for themselves. Anybody that knows football would rate Peyton Manning as one of the top 5 quarterbacks of all time, one SB or not.

Peyton Manning's regular season stats are eye popping. He's been named MVP a league record five times, while making the Pro Bowl 14 times thus far. He's thrown the most touchdown passes ever (530) and the most in a single season (55).

On top of his record-breaking stats, Manning is a surgeon in the pocket. He is regarded as one of the smartest players to ever play the game.

And that's just a fraction of the records he holds...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/photos/best-quarterbacks-ever/3 (Ranked #3)

http://nesn.com/playlist/top-10-nfl...e-list-gives-edge-to-recent-signal-callers/9/ (Ranked #3)

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...land-patriots-dallas-cowboys-countdown-112315 (Ranked #3)

Dude pick a new hobby.

Well if you would go into the NFL talk, nobody regards him as the greatest quarterback of all time. Who cares how many MVP in the regular season or which records he has broken, the guy couldn't get the job done when it matters.

He's a good player but definately not in the same conversation as Joe Montana or Tom Brady. Not even close.

What's next you're gonna tell me that Ovechkin is an all time great hockey player?

 

[mhkeuns]

Not really that concerned, it is just Hingis is the go to when the haters are spewing their BS about the Williams sisters,so just wanted to remind folks of some of her less than stellar moments. For all I know she most likely has her crew pay all her bills, so I told my friend that night that maybe she thought whoever handled the bill put a tip on there...we'd like to think at least!

I'll tell you one thing she is champ at, aging very well. I found nothing attractive about the "Chuckie" faced Hingis of old, but dam she is a fit and attractive 30 something!

Isn't that weird? She was trying so hard to look pretty when she was younger but failed really hard. Now, though, she is actually looking prettier than when she was a teen. Had to chuckle at the "Chuckie" comparison... Chuckle with a nice smile..., maybe.

 

[mattosgrant]

Serena is truly incredible but let's let her surpass Grafs slam count before crowning her the best ever. I have no doubt she will do it, but it still needs to happen before I crown her.

This is one reason I feel badly for Court getting so easily dismissed. Why does Court have an asterisk for the Australian Open situation but not Graf for the stabbing situation? Yeah I know it is a what if, but so is the Australian Open situation with Court. We will never know for certain what would happen but sound logic in both cases would be that both would have won only roughly half the slams they won in that capacity (11 each, Court at the Australian, Graf post Seles stabbing). I think if anything, if Graf is getting a free pass, Court deserves one as well. Likewise if Court is diminished, Graf should be as well, but be consistent. Atleast Court didn't have a major rival stabbed, she just capatilized on a bizarre tournament situation.

 

[Incognito]

Yaaaasss, and rightly so! Aneres deserves the title.

The GOAT Serve:

The GOAT Return:

The GOAT Forehand

 

[Uncle Ebeneezer]

Barring some freak career-ending accident, Serena will almost definitely tie (and very likely pass) Graf's record and has a serious chance to catch Court as well if she can stay healthy long enough. Her domination of the game over the past 3 years has been unprecedented. She's held all 4 majors concurrently TWICE. She has an H2H edge against every one of her rivals (Hingis, Henin, Venus, Capriati, Clijsters, Davenport) all multiple Slam winners. Where those H2H's are close, they most definitely would be much more lopsided in Serena's favor had her opponents not left the game before she even hit her second career peak. And she's done this all despite missing significant time due to injuries and while enduring endless piles of racism and sexism at every turn. She is already the GOAT in my opinion. And many of the people arguing otherwise would likely continue to do so no matter how many more Slams she wins. They will just keep moving the goalposts to keep from giving her the prize: Because she doesn't play the right way, or they don't like her body, or because she speaks her mind, or because she doesn't act the way they think she should on court. Whatever. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Incognito]

What players say about Serena:

Serena vs Djokovic

 

[NoleFam]

Barring some freak career-ending accident, Serena will almost definitely tie (and very likely pass) Graf's record and has a serious chance to catch Court as well if she can stay healthy long enough. Her domination of the game over the past 3 years has been unprecedented. She's held all 4 majors concurrently TWICE. She has an H2H edge against every one of her rivals (Hingis, Henin, Venus, Capriati, Clijsters, Davenport) all multiple Slam winners. Where those H2H's are close, they most definitely would be much more lopsided in Serena's favor had her opponents not left the game before she even hit her second career peak. And she's done this all despite missing significant time due to injuries and while enduring endless piles of racism and sexism at every turn. She is already the GOAT in my opinion. And many of the people arguing otherwise would likely continue to do so no matter how many more Slams she wins. They will just keep moving the goalposts to keep from giving her the prize: Because she doesn't play the right way, or they don't like her body, or because she speaks her mind, or because she doesn't act the way they think she should on court. Whatever. Haters gonna hate.

Well said. Nothing more to say.

 

[Chadillac]

LOL...dude I take it that you don't like Peyton but his stats speak for themselves. Anybody that knows football would rate Peyton Manning as one of the top 5 quarterbacks of all time, one SB or not.

Peyton Manning's regular season stats are eye popping. He's been named MVP a league record five times, while making the Pro Bowl 14 times thus far. He's thrown the most touchdown passes ever (530) and the most in a single season (55).

On top of his record-breaking stats, Manning is a surgeon in the pocket. He is regarded as one of the smartest players to ever play the game.

And that's just a fraction of the records he holds...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/photos/best-quarterbacks-ever/3 (Ranked #3)

http://nesn.com/playlist/top-10-nfl...e-list-gives-edge-to-recent-signal-callers/9/ (Ranked #3)

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...land-patriots-dallas-cowboys-countdown-112315 (Ranked #3)

Dude pick a new hobby.

Tennesse won the national championship the year he left. He put up like a 85rating in his only superbowl win. He played in a dome vs the afc south (lol) then in no humidy denver against the pathetic afc west. Of coarse his numbers are going to be good, he plays in the worst divisions in football. He is terrible in the playoffs against real teams, his losing record (11-13) show us.

Most overrated player of all time. 2nd would be barry sanders

 

[Chadillac]

BShe has an H2H edge against every one of her rivals (Hingis, Henin, Venus, Capriati, Clijsters, Davenport) all multiple Slam winners.

Her greatest rivals retired 6-14 years ago, yet dominating the past 3 impresses you? Venus was never a rival, richard admitted their matches were predetermined.

 

[Fiero425]

Tennesse won the national championship the year he left. He put up like a 85rating in his only superbowl win. He played in a dome vs the afc south (lol) then in no humidy denver against the pathetic afc west. Of coarse his numbers are going to be good, he plays in the worst divisions in football. He is terrible in the playoffs against real teams, his losing record (11-13) show us.

Most overrated player of all time. 2nd would be barry sanders

My thoughts exactly! He was lucky my pathetic Bears went up against him in his lone SB win playing that stupid "cover-2" defense with a lead! Peyton needed to be roughed up and they played off his receivers giving them 8 yards and he picked them clean in the 2nd half! When he went up against any team that was good, he had his lunch-money taken away; Brady, Luck, Flacco, & Brees! So he beat Rex Grossman 9 years ago! ;-)

 

[NoleFam]

Tennesse won the national championship the year he left. He put up like a 85rating in his only superbowl win. He played in a dome vs the afc south (lol) then in no humidy denver against the pathetic afc west. Of coarse his numbers are going to be good, he plays in the worst divisions in football. He is terrible in the playoffs against real teams, his losing record (11-13) show us.

Most overrated player of all time. 2nd would be barry sanders

It's hard to be overrated when someone holds so many league records. LOL. Just saying...You're cherry picking to fit what you want to be true. Just like you're doing with Serena. Richard predetermined their matches? GTFOH.

 

[Chadillac]

It's hard to be overrated when someone holds so many league records. LOL. Just saying...You're cherry picking to fit what you want to be true. Just like you're doing with Serena. Richard predetermined their matches? GTFOH.

Karlovic leads the tour in aces, same thing, its about the ring. You wanna break down stats or wins? He is like dan marino on the fins. Reg season hero, post season zero

 

[Chadillac]

My thoughts exactly! He was lucky my pathetic Bears went up against him in his lone SB win playing that stupid "cover-2" defense with a lead! Peyton needed to be roughed up and they played off his receivers giving them 8 yards and he picked them clean in the 2nd half! When he went up against any team that was good, he had his lunch-money taken away; Brady, Luck, Flacco, & Brees! So he beat Rex Grossman 9 years ago! ;-)

His big win over grossman is similar to serena's past 3 years.

 

[mavsman149]

This is one reason I feel badly for Court getting so easily dismissed. Why does Court have an asterisk for the Australian Open situation but not Graf for the stabbing situation? Yeah I know it is a what if, but so is the Australian Open situation with Court. We will never know for certain what would happen but sound logic in both cases would be that both would have won only roughly half the slams they won in that capacity (11 each, Court at the Australian, Graf post Seles stabbing). I think if anything, if Graf is getting a free pass, Court deserves one as well. Likewise if Court is diminished, Graf should be as well, but be consistent. Atleast Court didn't have a major rival stabbed, she just capatilized on a bizarre tournament situation.

Perhaps it is unfair but I feel like that is comparing apples and oranges a bit in this situation. The Australian Open never had close to a full field during Courts days whereas Graf was missing just one rival. Of course what happened to Monica was awful and probably the greatest tragedy our sport has seen, but I find it very difficult to penalize Graf for that. However horrible the situation behind Monica's injury was, injuries happen and the slams Steffi won were still all full fields.

Whatever happens I fully believe Serena will put the GOAT argument to rest soon, I just think she needs to finish the job first.

 

[PeterHo]

Perhaps it is unfair but I feel like that is comparing apples and oranges a bit in this situation. The Australian Open never had close to a full field during Courts days whereas Graf was missing just one rival. Of course what happened to Monica was awful and probably the greatest tragedy our sport has seen, but I find it very difficult to penalize Graf for that. However horrible the situation behind Monica's injury was, injuries happen and the slams Steffi won were still all full fields.

Whatever happens I fully believe Serena will put the GOAT argument to rest soon, I just think she needs to finish the job first.

Don't think Serena will ever get the CYGS. So gRAF is safe, like laver from federer. Serena at best can be equal~goat.

 

[mavsman149]

Don't think Serena will ever get the CYGS. So gRAF is safe, like laver from federer. Serena at best can be equal~goat.

Perhaps she won't achieve that but I do think she has 5 more slams in her. I think that is enough in my mind to be the undisputed GOAT.

 

[Man of steel]

Her greatest rivals retired 6-14 years ago, yet dominating the past 3 impresses you? Venus was never a rival, richard admitted their matches were predetermined.

I see you're posting lies and BS as usual. Someone ban this fool seriously.

 

[PeterHo]

Perhaps she won't achieve that but I do think she has 5 more slams in her. I think that is enough in my mind to be the undisputed GOAT.

Well if she does get 5 more she will be equal GOAT. However to be an undisputed GOAT is incredibly difficult, unless she is head and shoulders above all the other goats.

Without the CYGS Serena cannot say she had a higher "peak" than graf. Graf had
won 5 slams in a row. Graf also had 5 dominant years (3 slams or more) compared to serenas 2. Graf also lost a few slams against navratilova and seles, both greater players than any slam finalist Serena ever faced. Graf has an incredible 8 year end no.1 compared to serenas 5.

Racking up slams over an ultra long career is great, but obviously Graf has won more slams in a shorter period of time, against stronger ATG players.

 

[Man of steel]

Well if she does get 5 more she will be equal GOAT. However to be an undisputed GOAT is incredibly difficult, unless she is head and shoulders above all the other goats.

Without the CYGS Serena cannot say she had a higher "peak" than graf. Graf had
won 5 slams in a row. Graf also had 5 dominant years (3 slams or more) compared to serenas 2. Graf also lost a few slams against navratilova and seles, both greater players than any slam finalist Serena ever faced. Graf has an incredible 8 year end no.1 compared to serenas 5.

Racking up slams over an ultra long career is great, but obviously Graf has won more slams in a shorter period of time, against stronger ATG players.

Really? I'd rank venus and henin along with seles. Graf faced navratilova at the end of her prime.
Venus and henin at their peak is certainly better then navratilova past her prime. The only case you have is monica. And even then she was taken out of the game and the only reason she was stabbed was propel graf back to number 1. Without the stabbing grafs numbers would have been lower.
Not to mention graf retired in just the second year serena came on tour. At least evert and navratilova played in their 30's which allowed graf to play them. Graf didn't allow that for serena.
So you can't fault serena if the previous dominant player stopped playing before her 30's. So you bringing up navratilova isn't propping up graf when graf didn't exactly do the same thing in her career

 

[PeterHo]

Really? I'd rank venus and henin along with seles. Graf faced navratilova at the end of her prime.
Venus and henin at their peak is certainly better then navratilova past her prime. The only case you have is monica. And even then she was taken out of the game and the only reason she was stabbed was propel graf back to number 1. Without the stabbing grafs numbers would have been lower.
Not to mention graf retired in just the second year serena came on tour. At least evert and navratilova played in their 30's which allowed graf to play them. Graf didn't allow that for serena.
So you can't fault serena if the previous dominant player stopped playing before her 30's. So you bringing up navratilova isn't propping up graf when graf didn't exactly do the same thing in her career

You can personally rank Venus and henin with seles, that's your opinion. But if you check official lists of ATGs seles ranks higher.

As to the backstabbing, yes I agree Graf was lucky. However, back to the first point, this just further proves serena is even luckier, ie. She didn't even have to face an ATG like seles ( a player who you and I agree could have won double digit slams) at all.

Navratilova is past her prime? That's very arguable. Much like Serena in her 30s, navratilova is fully capable of winning many more slams at old age. They met in 6 slam finals and navratilova won 2 of them. If navratilova wasn't playing, Graf could have got 2 extra slams. Again, Serena never had to face a player like that in her entire slam career.

The presence of these two ATGs took 5 slams from graf. There is no such argument for Serena as she never faced a double digit slammer in slam finals.

Regardless, Its quite obvious who's the more dominant player during their respective primes.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Let's put it this way. Nobody really knew Navratilova was past her prime before Graf began to beat her at the slams. Wimbledon 88 and 89, plus USO 89. Three finals that Navratilova lost to Graf and Seles wasn't yet a contender at these events (she too would deny Navratilova in 91). All these three finals were tough and against another opponent very likely Navratilova would have got both hands on the trophy.

 

[Steve0904]

Of course a bunch of Americans will think Serena is the greatest. That is ridiculously obvious because they are Americans and she's American and there's nothing wrong in thinking that. It's a bias we can't control because it's based on location, but this is not ground breaking news. Don't get me wrong, Serena's in the argument for greatest ever, (she has a very good argument actually) but it's no surprise that the Americans that participated in the poll think so. They probably thought that before last year.

As far as her being #4 all time, I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole because it's impossible to compare across sports. Regardless of gender, if Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time and Serena Williams is the greatest tennis player of all time then how do you rank them in an order that puts one above the other for 2 different sports. It's completely nonsensical.

 

[Steve0904]

My thoughts exactly! He was lucky my pathetic Bears went up against him in his lone SB win playing that stupid "cover-2" defense with a lead! Peyton needed to be roughed up and they played off his receivers giving them 8 yards and he picked them clean in the 2nd half! When he went up against any team that was good, he had his lunch-money taken away; Brady, Luck, Flacco, & Brees! So he beat Rex Grossman 9 years ago! ;-)

You and your friend can say what you want, but he's still one of the greatest to ever play the QB position. He lags behind Brady in SB wins and appearances yes, but that doesn't mean he was lucky to make 3 SB's and win 1 of them, beating the Chiefs, Ravens (road game), and putting up 38 on the Patriots along the way to your "pathetic" 13-3 Bears. Dan Marino never won a SB, but he's still one of the greatest to ever play for example.

Oh and btw he's beaten the Patriots twice in the playoffs, and he would've beaten Flacco (thus denying the Ravens a SB) if not for a blown coverage by the defense, so your "lunch money" comment is pretty far off base. All this is besides the fact that the QB's are not the only 2 players on the field. You make it sound like they go H2H. They don't, or at least it's not that simple.

 

[InsideOut900]

So i guess henin, capriati, davenport, clijsters, sharapova and hingis are all mediocre players.

I would add Venus on the list,who was the biggest danger on fast courts(Wimb and Us Open) and also Dementieva,Mauresmo, Ivanovic,Jankovic,Safina(granted all 3 played at their best for only 2 seasons,3 for Jankovic) and not to forget Azarenka,who challenged Serena countless times,including 2012 Us Open,when Serena was playing some of her best tennis.