An 88 mph first serve is more than fast enough to beat you.

onehandbh

Legend
An 88 mph average 1st serve and 75 mph average 2nd serve is fast enough to beat pretty much every poster on TW.

To be fair, her UTR is 12.xx and she can return some ATP serves as evidenced by her once making it to the semifinals of a grand slam in mixed doubles.

 
An 88 mph average 1st serve and 75 mph average 2nd serve is fast enough to beat pretty much every poster on TW.

To be fair, her UTR is 12.xx and she can return some ATP serves as evidenced by her once making it to the semifinals of a grand slam in mixed doubles.

just for the record, I'm not dead..

Did some clown talk down a WTA player again?

sigh
 
But you have to consider that a player averaging 88 probably can hit close to 100 occasionally.

Touching 100 and averaging 100 is a very different thing.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
An 88 mph average 1st serve and 75 mph average 2nd serve is fast enough to beat pretty much every poster on TW.

To be fair, her UTR is 12.xx and she can return some ATP serves as evidenced by her once making it to the semifinals of a grand slam in mixed doubles.

I'll take her 75 mph 2nd serve any day over my own.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
The reason she can win against almost all posters on here is because she is a 12 UTR. Players with a 12 UTR have a variety of styles, serves and even age - they also come in all sizes and shapes from scrawny kids to muscular college students to fit WTA pros. They‘ll win almost all matches against those with a UTR of 11 or below because the UTR measures their ability to win matches and it does not shed any light on serve speed, ground stroke pace/spin, volley quality, playing style etc.
 

zaph

Professional
Well yes, a top level player will be able to beat everyone here with a slow serve. Hell if you took a big ATP server and force them to serve dollies, they would still beat everyone here because they are that good.

Of course the problem for amateur players isn't just a lack of pace, it is a lack of control, variety and reliability. If you want to become a more effective server and a much more effective player at rec level, work on your second serve.

Once you have a reliable second serve, which is at least a little bit harder to attack, you will become a lot more difficult to beat. Most matches at rec level are decided by unforced errors, not pace and winners.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
An 88 mph average 1st serve and 75 mph average 2nd serve is fast enough to beat pretty much every poster on TW.

To be fair, her UTR is 12.xx and she can return some ATP serves as evidenced by her once making it to the semifinals of a grand slam in mixed doubles.


WTA Pro MEP. FTW. FWIW. lol. TTFN.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
An 88 mph average 1st serve and 75 mph average 2nd serve is fast enough to beat pretty much every poster on TW.

To be fair, her UTR is 12.xx and she can return some ATP serves as evidenced by her once making it to the semifinals of a grand slam in mixed doubles.
Didn't Connors average about 87 mph as well?
 

onehandbh

Legend
I made the thread b/c it seems like many rec players are always looking for power or trying to copy the technique/stroke of their favorite players.

I doubt there are many people trying to copy her technique or game, but she has found a way to play that works for her.
 

WildVolley

Legend
All I'm getting from this is that a bunch of rec hacks with weak serves are fantasizing that they too could be professional tennis players. It isn't going to happen.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I made the thread b/c it seems like many rec players are always looking for power or trying to copy the technique/stroke of their favorite players.

I doubt there are many people trying to copy her technique or game, but she has found a way to play that works for her.
I could beat most TW posters with a pickleball paddle. That doesn't make it a good idea.

J
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I made the thread b/c it seems like many rec players are always looking for power or trying to copy the technique/stroke of their favorite players.

I doubt there are many people trying to copy her technique or game, but she has found a way to play that works for her.
I'd love to have her groundstroke game. On our low bouncing courts up here in the PNW, that game would be lethal to all but the best players. I suspect she'd beat even our best players and coaches fairly handily. She has the ball on a string for most of the matches I've seen her play.
 

Digital Atheist

Professional
All I'm getting from this is that a bunch of rec hacks with weak serves are fantasizing that they too could be professional tennis players. It isn't going to happen.
Nothing wrong with a little fantasizing every now and again (yes I speak from personal experience) just as long as reality isn't lost in the static.
 

RajS

Semi-Pro
I was going to say Su Wei is the WTA version of MEP, but that's probably not correct, because a lot of her shots are outright winners or cause forced errors. IMO, it's her amazing tactical and placement skills, on top of everything else, that lets her beat higher ranked players with lots more power and speed. Her serve and shots have just enough pace to make a well placed ball a winner.
 

sovertennis

Professional
Plus the commentators (Chris Evert) pointed out that at the beginning Osaka wasn't used to seeing such...slow serves and didn't have her timming right (to kill them).
Typical not-well-thought-out comment from Chrissie considering that Osaka has played SW previously and knew she was playing against her, so could have (and probably did) practiced returning slower than usual serves. (As an aside, I can't stand watching/listening to any match in which Chrissie is the commentator. She consistently makes thoughtless comments and talks about the players (except Serena, whom she worships) as if she's (Chrissie) the mother superior in a Catholic girls school and every one of the students falls well short of her expectations.

That's all. My tangential rant for this morning has ended. Carry on with your day.
 

Fintft

Legend
Typical not-well-thought-out comment from Chrissie considering that Osaka has played SW previously and knew she was playing against her, so could have (and probably did) practiced returning slower than usual serves. (As an aside, I can't stand watching/listening to any match in which Chrissie is the commentator. She consistently makes thoughtless comments and talks about the players (except Serena, whom she worships) as if she's (Chrissie) the mother superior in a Catholic girls school and every one of the students falls well short of her expectations.

That's all. My tangential rant for this morning has ended. Carry on with your day.
While I agree with you, maybe Osaka hasn't trained returning slower serves.

Chris Evert at times (when she is not worshiping Serena) seems right like when she said that in this modern era is the players that controll the point that win(Hopefully so, if I may add lol).
 

PrinceMoron

Legend
Most TW posters are below 3.5.

The prosecution's case holds water.

J
IHard to imagine it now but we must all have been 3.5 at some stage. Did I really spend all day picking the ball out of the net or double faulting? Or driving my partner nuts because I couldn’t get a return over the net.? Hitting with some dreadful technique and not being aware of it? Must have done I guess.
Perhaps your mind just blanks out all the bad stuff in life because those memories are just not there.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
88 average is pretty good for a rec player.. but this thread is silly.

Major advantage in being a guy is being taller, bigger and stronger then most women. So we should serve as big as we can reliably get in. But many guys are going to have vastly inferior footwork, anticipation and stamina then a female pro. There are some 4.5s and 5.0s which might serve bigger then a female pro and will still get crushed by her.

You should take advantage of what you can do on the court. No joke I saw this guy who was 6'8" playing tennis the other day. The guy was only like a 4.0. The weird thing is was he had very strong ground strokes - decent volleys but served like a 3.0 lady. It was bizarre. Total waste of his talent.

His partner was an athletic young guy - only about 6' but he could bring his serve 100+ - on first serves pretty reliably. Didn't have a great rest of his game but was pretty good - might have been 4.5 (guesstimate).

But rather then focus on that we get all these threads about how guys and girls don't serve big and still win. So what?! MEP might win at 4.5 with athleticism but that doesn't mean you should develop your game that way. If you are big and tall - serve big. If you are fast and quick - then use your athleticism. If you have nothing focus on tactics and footwork..etc etc.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
IHard to imagine it now but we must all have been 3.5 at some stage. Did I really spend all day picking the ball out of the net or double faulting? Or driving my partner nuts because I couldn’t get a return over the net.? Hitting with some dreadful technique and not being aware of it? Must have done I guess.
Perhaps your mind just blanks out all the bad stuff in life because those memories are just not there.
That sounds more like a 2.0 or 2.5. Jolly is right most TW are 3.5 and below, IMHO. 3.5 is the natural level that average adult men get to with modest practice. And they do get the ball over the net and rally fine. Its just not the least bit pretty or fun to watch. It is bashed on here - but 3.5 is basically 'club level' and not really anything to be ashamed about..

If you combine 2.5/3.0 league players with 3.5 league players - we are talking about 70% of players who play competitively - or something like that. Acting like 3.5 is something people all move on from is just wrong. Tennis is not like Spanish class. Most do not move on from 3.5. That is a simple fact.
 
Tennis is not like Spanish class. Most do not move on from 3.5. That is a simple fact.
I'd say language is even worse than tennis: most people take a class or three [maybe just to satisfy a HS graduation requirement] and go no further. Their equivalent NTRP would be 2.0.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
I actually think most TW posters do not play tennis at all........
I think most of the guys who post only on GPPD definitely don’t play tennis as they don’t seem to pick up any nuances from matches they watch about what actually happened on court. Their typical analysis of pro matches is that all wins are because a player wanted it more and all losses are because a player choked or is a mug.
 
I think most of the guys who post only on GPPD definitely don’t play tennis as they don’t seem to pick up any nuances from matches they watch about what actually happened on court. Their typical analysis of pro matches is that all wins are because a player wanted it more and all losses are because a player choked or is a mug.
It's the same reading chats during a real-time broadcast [ie Cam Williams]: it's either "X is unstoppable [because he/she is my favorite player]" or "why doesn't he/she just do X to defeat the opponent" [as if doing X against a world-class opponent is a trivial thing and it never occurred to them].
 

Fintft

Legend
.No joke I saw this guy who was 6'8" playing tennis the other day. The guy was only like a 4.0. The weird thing is was he had very strong ground strokes - decent volleys but served like a 3.0 lady. It was bizarre. Total waste of his talent.
He might be like me, doesn't like to serve, or hasn't served much...But I am only 6'2" and I serve 3.5
 
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