An idea... Does this make sense to anyone else?

[ibo]

So I've been a little frustrated of late because I feel like my shots are too prone to flying long and I think it's down to a recent loosening up of the gut mains I'm using in a (soft) poly hybrid. The mains have definitely started moving around more in the past couple of weeks. When I play tested the frame from TW it came with a full bed of poly and I liked that but given my history of elbow problems I couldn't risk going with that and so here I am several weeks later wondering which way to turn. I encountered a thread here which put me onto this Luxilon natural gut which is supposedly a little firmer and so it seems to me that pairing that with a soft poly may constitute a compromise that would provide adequate comfort while allowing for more control. But then again... maybe I'm just dreaming?

I know this isn't something anyone can be certain of without trying it but my question is just... Does this make sense to anyone but me?

 

[USPTARF97]

Pre-stretch the Gut mains. What frame and tension?

 

[ibo]

Prince Phantom Pro 93P 18x20. I've never done anything like pre-stretching strings though I suppose I could ask my stringer friend to do that for me. Is my original line of reasoning valid or not? And would a reasonable alternative to pre-stretching be to string at a higher attention on the assumption that the tension will reach an optimal level later or is that not really the same thing? I guess it even seems different to me. Just asking.

 

[USPTARF97]

Prince Phantom Pro 93P 18x20. I've never done anything like pre-stretching strings though I suppose I could ask my stringer friend to do that for me. Is my original line of reasoning valid or not? And would a reasonable alternative to pre-stretching be to string at a higher attention on the assumption that the tension will reach an optimal level later or is that not really the same thing? I guess it even seems different to me. Just asking.

What tension are you stringing?

 

[ibo]

Around middle of recommended range (52 mains/49 cross - if I remember).

 

[Kevo]

Gut is probably the most powerful string. It was more powerful than I wanted so I gave up on it some time ago. Having said that, all the guts I tested were still easy on the arm no matter how high I strung them. So don't be afraid to string the gut as high as you need to. If the tension you started with was good and the gut was still in good shape when it got too loose, you could try 5-7lbs higher on the next stringing and see how that lasts.

You could also try the klip armored gut. It's got a coating on it that helps it last longer, but it also makes it a bit firmer and more controlled.

 

[USPTARF97]

Around middle of recommended range (52 mains/49 cross - if I remember).

Pre stretch the Gut mains. 55/52. Use a soft slick poly cross with good tension maintenance like Big Hitter Black Zone. (1.25)

 

[Addxyz]

55/52 might be pretty high for 93P. Check out the 93P thread for some string recommendations.

 

[ibo]

Gut is probably the most powerful string. It was more powerful than I wanted so I gave up on it some time ago. Having said that, all the guts I tested were still easy on the arm no matter how high I strung them. So don't be afraid to string the gut as high as you need to. If the tension you started with was good and the gut was still in good shape when it got too loose, you could try 5-7lbs higher on the next stringing and see how that lasts.

You could also try the klip armored gut. It's got a coating on it that helps it last longer, but it also makes it a bit firmer and more controlled.

I keep thinking about this... Aside from considerations of arm friendliness, is it fair to say that a higher strung natural gut will more or less be equivalent (allowing for idiosynchracies of any particular string) in terms of control (i.e. will the ball land in if I take a good swing with some top spin) to a poly strung at a lower tension? Feel like I'm getting into the string zen zone here ;-)

 

[ibo]

55/52 might be pretty high for 93P. Check out the 93P thread for some string recommendations.

Thanks. I'll check that out.

 

[Kevo]

I keep thinking about this... Aside from considerations of arm friendliness, is it fair to say that a higher strung natural gut will more or less be equivalent (allowing for idiosynchracies of any particular string) in terms of control (i.e. will the ball land in if I take a good swing with some top spin) to a poly strung at a lower tension? Feel like I'm getting into the string zen zone here ;-)

I thought that would be true. I still think it probably is, I just never got high enough in tension to experience that. I went up towards 70lbs with full gut and I still didn't have the control I wanted. I think with gut poly it will be easier to get there. Most people who use gut and poly seem to be satisfied with much lower tensions than that, so I think you'll be fine. I just found some softer polys that I liked and have been playing poly ever since and have never gotten the urge try gut poly. It helps that I can usually play a good poly around 40lbs of tension and still have the control I want.

 

[ibo]

I thought that would be true. I still think it probably is, I just never got high enough in tension to experience that. I went up towards 70lbs with full gut and I still didn't have the control I wanted. I think with gut poly it will be easier to get there. Most people who use gut and poly seem to be satisfied with much lower tensions than that, so I think you'll be fine. I just found some softer polys that I liked and have been playing poly ever since and have never gotten the urge try gut poly. It helps that I can usually play a good poly around 40lbs of tension and still have the control I want.

You see, that's actually pretty much what I'm thinking. That is, a full bed of soft poly (for example the Luxilon bronze colored string that I have in the crosses at the moment) might just be ok on my arm if I string it lower (maybe around 45). I'm sorely tempted to try it but the fear of a recurrence of arm problems keeps me thinking.

 

[Kevo]

The TWU string db has stiffness ratings for a lot of strings. I usually use a poly that is in the 170 - 180 range. I think gut is around 100 and polys go up in the high 200s I think. I've also been stringing my frames with the crosses quite a bit lower than the mains. People that have measured string tension during and after stringing have shown that stringing crosses raises the tension of the mains. So I have recently been stringing the mains a bit higher than the crosses. My last frame was strung at 52/40. I don't have a stringmeter to measure with, but the idea is that the overall tension here would be less than something strung at like 46/46. All I know is I really like it.

Also, I don't think there are many soft Luxilon strings compared to other brands. I'd check that string in the database and see if that's the one you want to experiment with.

 

[USPTARF97]

55/52 might be pretty high for 93P. Check out the 93P thread for some string recommendations.

He could go up 1lb on the mains and crosses and not tell much difference with the issues he is having. 3lbs it should resolve the issue. Have seen that frame strung in the mid to upper 50’s with Gut/poly.
55/52 is a really common tension for Gut/poly in 93-95in frames.

 

[ibo]

He could go up 1lb on the mains and crosses and not tell much difference with the issues he is having. 3lbs it should resolve the issue. Have seen that frame strung in the mid to upper 50’s with Gut/poly.
55/52 is a really coming tension for Gut/poly in 93-95in frames.

Yeah, I actually didn't like the original tension much at 52/49 and then it seemed to come into its own after a few sessions (like a little more plush).

"Now hold on" - I hear you say... "Isn't that a contradiction with the OP's wish to have a more control oriented set up?". It may sound that way but no, I don't think so - is my answer. I felt like it was in this sweet tension zone where it felt plush and easy on the arm and at the same time I was happily hitting hard with confidence that it wouldn't fly long.

Arghh. I'm going nuts.

 

[USPTARF97]

Yeah, I actually didn't like the original tension much at 52/49 and then it seemed to come into its own after a few sessions (like a little more plush).

"Now hold on" - I hear you say... "Isn't that a contradiction with the OP's wish to have a more control oriented set up?". It may sound that way but no, I don't think so - is my answer. I felt like it was in this sweet tension zone where it felt plush and easy on the arm and at the same time I was happily hitting hard with confidence that it wouldn't fly long.

Arghh. I'm going nuts.

If you want more control go up 2-3lbs. If you want to just try Pre-stretch on the mains that might make the string bed last a bit longer on the original tension if you have a poly that has good string tension maintenance. What poly you using?
If you pre-stretch both you will have a different animal there. I prefer just to pre-stretch the Gut mains to avoid the string bed getting too stiff.
You have many options.

 

[ibo]

The TWU string db has stiffness ratings for a lot of strings. I usually use a poly that is in the 170 - 180 range. I think gut is around 100 and polys go up in the high 200s I think. I've also been stringing my frames with the crosses quite a bit lower than the mains. People that have measured string tension during and after stringing have shown that stringing crosses raises the tension of the mains. So I have recently been stringing the mains a bit higher than the crosses. My last frame was strung at 52/40. I don't have a stringmeter to measure with, but the idea is that the overall tension here would be less than something strung at like 46/46. All I know is I really like it.

Also, I don't think there are many soft Luxilon strings compared to other brands. I'd check that string in the database and see if that's the one you want to experiment with.

I looked at some relative stiffness numbers on the TW site. Comparing Babolat VS Touch (what I have in my mains now) with my proposed Luxilon NG:

Property	Luxilon NG 1.25	Babolat VS 1.25
Stiffness	82	92
Energy Return	96	96

Say what? The description for the Lux NG specifically says it has a firmer control oriented feel compared with other guts. Am I reading this wrong?

 

[USPTARF97]

I looked at some relative stiffness numbers on the TW site. Comparing Babolat VS Touch (what I have in my mains now) with my proposed Luxilon NG:

Property	Luxilon NG 1.25	Babolat VS 1.25
Stiffness	82	92
Energy Return	96	96

Say what? The description for the Lux NG specifically says it has a firmer control oriented feel compared with other guts. Am I reading this wrong?

That data will get you in the ballpark but there is no substitute for stringing it up in your frames and see what results you get.

 

[USPTARF97]

What poly are you using? Sounds like you are going to be able to make some subtle changes to get what you are looking for in that set up.

 

[ibo]

What poly are you using? Sounds like you are going to be able to make some subtle changes to get what you are looking for in that set up.

Currently strung with VS touch mains, Luxilon Element crosses. I'm sure the original tensions are no longer true: 52/49

 

[USPTARF97]

Currently strung with VS touch mains, Luxilon Element crosses. I'm sure the original tensions are no longer true: 52/49

Hmm..Element stretches out 30-40%. Think I would still just pre-stretch the Gut mains and go up 2-3lbs and see what you think. If you think it’s a bit stiff, the tension will drop soon enough with some play. You could pre stretch both at the original tension but to me it takes out some of the playability.

 

[USPTARF97]

Would find out what options you stringer has for poly. Big Hitter Black Zone 1.25 in the cross if you take your string to him is one option.

 

[blai212]

signum pro poly plasma crosses!


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[USPTARF97]

signum pro poly plasma crosses!


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I’m gonna have to try this string, tension maintenance looks really good and stiffness is low as well. Is this a really slick string?

 

[blai212]

I’m gonna have to try this string, tension maintenance looks really good and stiffness is low as well. Is this a really slick string?

it does have a semi slick coating but it is not as slick as a poly tour fire. Still slick enough imo but it does wear off slowly


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[USPTARF97]

it does have a semi slick coating but it is not as slick as a poly tour fire. Still slick enough imo but it does wear off slowly


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Ok thanks, nice to find another poly with good tension maintenance that doesn’t break the bank or the arm.

 

[hurworld]

I strung my 93P 18x20 with VS Team 1.25 main / Yonex Poly Tour Fire 1.25 at 50/43 (10% pre-stretch on gut). Plays consistent from strung til now (20+ hours in). The only thing I don't like is the string bed is heavier and making the racquet less headlight than I would like, and I had to add weight in the handle to bring racquet back to 9 pt HL.