and another college tennis goes down

That is really too bad. I don't know much about their men's and women's teams, but from reading that release it sounds like they were both relatively successful (especially the men's team) and had excellent academic numbers.
 

Doubles

Legend
At this point in time it seems as though the only sports to encourage your male children to play are football and basketball. Seemingly no other sport is safe from being cut, regardless of their success.
 

NoChance

Rookie
You mean Title IX, though you are on the money with your comment. I hate to say it, but we are going to see more announcements of this nature. Don't be too surprised if a few bottom-shelf programs in Power 5 conferences bail out.
 

chris-swede

Hall of Fame
the Big12 itself has only 6? Tennis programms in mens Tennis? The PAC12 has how much? I think Arizona State has been missing and Colorado is missing?
 

Nacho

Hall of Fame
the Big12 itself has only 6? Tennis programms in mens Tennis? The PAC12 has how much? I think Arizona State has been missing and Colorado is missing?
Mens missing:
Big 12 is missing: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
PAC12 is missing: Washington State, Oregon State, Colorado, ASU is back next year
ACC is missing: Pittsburgh, Syracuse
BIG is missing: Rutgers, Maryland
SEC is missing: Missouri

No reason any of those schools can't support a Mens Tennis team. They could easily scrap together 4 scholarships, or have no scholarships there are certainly kids who would play and represent the school. But the big 5 conferences put so much pressure on the level of play for all schools these school just opt to cut the programs rather then try and fund them at a high level.

A few things to note about these schools: Colorado, Kansas, Pittsburgh, Arizona State and Maryland had a rich tradition in mens tennis with several players doing well in the NCAA's and team involvement consistently. These were good programs, supported by the the local community. Many of these programs were cut in the last 20 years, with Syracuse and Wash St being cut over that.

Syracuse hasn't had a team since the early 60's, but they at one point hosted the NCAA's. Seems like a school that should have some money to put towards their athletic program, and could be participating yearly in the NCAA's....but they have cut most mens programs, not just tennis. Hardly any high level mens tennis programs in New York outside of Columbia

Many of the schools had tennis teams before they had other sports teams. Schools really do a poor job of promoting their history and understanding how to tie it in. There have been college competitions in tennis longer then other sports!

Title IX is certainly a factor when it comes to scholarships and positional opportunities, as big team sports like Football, Baseball, and Lacrosse eat up a lot of scholarships for the mens teams. But consider that title IX has been around for a long time, and many of these programs have been cut in recent years; not when Title IX happened. Thus, the cuts are the result of budgets, and the unwillingness of the school to put any money into a sport which has affectively become an "arms race" for facilities and coaches amongst a small group of elite athletic programs. Many of these AD's are ex-football/baseball/basketball guys, so they view tennis as a non-profit, recreation sport dominated by foreign players (60 %). They would rather upgrade the turf on their football field then have to resurface and upgrade 6 tennis courts or establish an indoor facility. Lastly, many coaches are simply team managers, and they lack the skills or knowledge to generate media coverage or promotion for their programs. Don get me wrong, there are some amazing coaches out there, but consistently its an under paid, under appreciated position in the department and you get what you pay for. The coaches that put some effort in this ground game usually garner a lot of support. UVA is a perfect example of this. Before Boland got there the program was bottom of the ACC, with very little support. Now they have three titles and a larger donation base then the football team with one of the best facilities just built in the last few years.

The more we can do to support our local schools and teams, attend matches, and help raise a little money; the more attention will be paid by fans and schools. It would help if Current and former players and their parents were more involved in supporting the programs they were a part of, or other programs locally. Sadly many of these students walk away and never think about tennis again, and offer no support. If the players don't try the tour they quit playing, and show very little interest in helping their programs. A lot of well known former players could lend more support, but they put more effort in the pro game.

A lot of issues in this, and I think we'll see many more programs cut before the interest in tennis programs is there again. Its an expensive sport, and right now many people are hurting so the sport is hurting in general outside of the recreation level.

PS: I will always add in that changing the scoring and trying to shorten matches is not the solution and actually hurts the game. But thats a different discussion for a different thread. At this point I am tired of arguing it and just want some teams to stick around...
 

MarTennis

Semi-Pro
At this point in time it seems as though the only sports to encourage your male children to play are football and basketball. Seemingly no other sport is safe from being cut, regardless of their success.
Depends on which sport and where. East Coast, lacrosse growing. West Coast, tennis stable, wth growth pockets where healthy basketball or football revenue. *******, dead zone for Olympic sports ex basketball.

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MarTennis

Semi-Pro
You mean Title IX, though you are on the money with your comment. I hate to say it, but we are going to see more announcements of this nature. Don't be too surprised if a few bottom-shelf programs in Power 5 conferences bail out.
Correct. Power means money. No money you're not a Power anything

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MarTennis

Semi-Pro
Once the tennis ignorant ADs understand the level of tennis they fund, it's curtains for all bottom level Division 1, men and women. How will they know? UTR and consultants.

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hound 109

Semi-Pro
Once the tennis ignorant ADs understand the level of tennis they fund, it's curtains for all bottom level Division 1, men and women. How will they know? UTR and consultants.

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I agree. UTR will change everything.

The number of low level D1s & D2s that have teams with mostly 10s & 11s (UTR) and are 80-90% non-american is mind boggling. -0- parental support, -0- community support. The coaches don't even bother attending nearby sectional & national tournaments (featuring 11-13 UTR juniors....kids who could play line 2-4 on their team immediately).

In our section, the kids with 11.5-13 UTRs know which regional schools to avoid & the handful to pursue. Many kids - especially boys - (who are not top 50 in the country) are opting for D3 to get the competition and atmosphere that's a better fit & to avoid being the token American on an average team at an average school with below average esprit de corp. (that only provides a 1/4 - 1/2 scholarship).

NACHO CORRECTLY SAID :
The more we can do to support our local schools and teams, attend matches, and help raise a little money; the more attention will be paid by fans and schools. It would help if Current and former players and their parents were more involved in supporting the programs they were a part of, or other programs locally. Sadly many of these students walk away and never think about tennis again, and offer no support. If the players don't try the tour they quit playing, and show very little interest in helping their programs. A lot of well known former players could lend more support, but they put more effort in the pro game.

A lot of issues in this, and I think we'll see many more programs cut before the interest in tennis programs is there again. Its an expensive sport, and right now many people are hurting so the sport is hurting in general outside of the recreation level.

But there is minimal local support because the non-americans move on (either back to their country or to a gig out of state) after school. & also because, 4 out of 5 teams (& coaches) do ZERO to reach out to the local communities and the local section. & why should the local tennis community care about the local low level college tennis team when the local 5.0 adult tournament and the nearby high level HS tennis teams offer - per UTR & with their own eyes.. a HIGHER level of tennis?? The USTA has been strangely silent for the past 20 years as this trend has moved past the point where it can be corrected.


If (& when) college tennis devolves to the point where NCAA Tennis (especially on the boys side) is only offered at the Top 50 D1 schools, the Top 25-30 D2 schools and 100 - 150 D3 schools.....no one will care. (Not this board, not the tennis community and certainly not the USTA).
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
I agree. UTR will change everything.

The number of low level D1s & D2s that have teams with mostly 10s & 11s (UTR) and are 80-90% non-american is mind boggling. -0- parental support, -0- community support. The coaches don't even bother attending nearby sectional & national tournaments (featuring 11-13 UTR juniors....kids who could play line 2-4 on their team immediately).

In our section, the kids with 11.5-13 UTRs know which regional schools to avoid & the handful to pursue. Many kids - especially boys - (who are not top 50 in the country) are opting for D3 to get the competition and atmosphere that's a better fit & to avoid being the token American on an average team at an average school with below average esprit de corp. (that only provides a 1/4 - 1/2 scholarship).

If (& when) college tennis devolves to the point where NCAA Tennis (especially on the boys side) is only offered at the Top 50 D1 schools, the Top 25-30 D2 schools and 100 - 150 D3 schools.....no one will care. (Not this board, not the tennis community and certainly not the USTA).
I dont think the scene is quite as bleak as hound109 implies. I think more players outside the top 50 through the 4 star level are deciding against playing for peanuts at the Power schools or sitting on the bench and are choosing to play D3 or MMs. There are MMs that must have some donor $ as some have new facilities or travel with players to Futures. There are MM coaches who attend the national tournaments, and many are successful in recruiting top 100 candidates. There are US freshmen who are playing on top teams-I think Illinois had 3 US freshmen in their lineup. Of course the top coaches bring in international freshmen ranked closed to UTR 14. However, I think there may be a new trend for MMs to look for US players. These are coaches who cant afford to travel overseas, and maybe the coaches in the past relied on services and showcases to provide international recruits, and those players did not perform as well as expected. Now some MM coaches are recruiting US players first, then internationals to fill the gap because they can see what they are getting, and they may be getting higher US recruits than in the past. Even some top 50 players are signing with MMs. Players who could play #4-6 at a Power school are choosing to play for MMs-some for more $, some because they know they can make an impact as a freshman. If the guys who would have opted for the bench at a Power school in the past now play MM, then the level of MMs will rise and some will be competitive with the lower Power teams. Ivys account for 3 of the top 10 recruiting classes. Mich State has one of the top recruiting classes so there will be a lot of competition between the lower Big 10 schools next year. Georgetown has one of the top recruiting classes even though I dont think they offer athletic scholarships-they are similar to D3. The top 10 D3 schools are as almost as good as the lower power teams. The top 20-30 D1 schools will still play much higher than the rest of the pack, but I think there will be more competition between lower powers, MMs, D3 if they get to play D1 at invitationals or nonconference matches. If there is more competition and matches are more exciting, then maybe interest in college tennis will grow. The 13 senior guys in our state that were ranked 175 or better all already have roster spots for fall (most had spots last Nov)-some may not be getting $ but they all have a place to play D1 or D3. Many of the 2 and 3 stars in my state are already committed too-those most of those are D3 with some D2. There is definitely opportunity there for US players, but maybe not the $. Best best is to make the grades/scores and have multiple option for paying for college. I think at least 25% of top recruits (top 75/100) are going to schools that do not give athletic scholarships. The blue chips are still mainly opting for power schools, but the 5 stars are going everywhere-MM, Power, Ivy, D3.

I think hound109 that you are from Texas. The Big 12 has the worst record of the Power schools as far as recruiting Americans-so far for 2017, only one top 100 recruit to a big 12 school vs. 14 to Acc, 13 to Big 10, and 10 to PAC 12. The SEC is lagging behind with only a handful of US recruits-those teams could be going for mostly international or holding out for the 9 guys in the top 50 ( 3 who could go pro) who have not committed yet.
 

NoChance

Rookie
I believe that there is a lot of valid comments in the above posts. There is going to be some shifting of the norms that used to be the standard. At the D-2 and 3 levels, wise coaches would do well to look at players in their region with a decent record, strong academics, and an interest in playing past high school.

And, those interested players need to push to improve, and keep the grades up.

The future is that in D-2 and below, a lot of players on a lot of rosters will be there because they were able to get some money because of their academic record, and they were decent tennis players.

And, that's a pretty good scenario for those young adults.
 

MarTennis

Semi-Pro
I believe that there is a lot of valid comments in the above posts. There is going to be some shifting of the norms that used to be the standard. At the D-2 and 3 levels, wise coaches would do well to look at players in their region with a decent record, strong academics, and an interest in playing past high school.

And, those interested players need to push to improve, and keep the grades up.

The future is that in D-2 and below, a lot of players on a lot of rosters will be there because they were able to get some money because of their academic record, and they were decent tennis players.

And, that's a pretty good scenario for those young adults.
Complacency would be very problematic for nearly any tennis program anywhere.

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