And God created Steffi Graf and Roger Federer

[Warriorroger]

I have discussed this on the Steffi Graf admiration thread and the Roger Federer web site. Are there more tennisfans who see similarities between Steffi Graf and Roger Federer. To me it's almost like Roger Federer is a male improved 'model'of the Steffi Graf tennisplayer 'model'.

Similarities:

Strokes:

Forehand
Although both had/have different techniques, the position on court from where they hit is almost identical. Both had/have awesome power and to both the forehand was/is the dominant stroke.

Slice backhand
Although Steffi used the sliced bakchand 98% of the time, Roger uses it a lot as wel.

(this underlines my believe that Steffi would have fared well in this era, cause Roger plays slice against powerplayers as well, slice can drive players crazy)

Offensive backhand:
Steffi hit a very good one early in her career, the shot disappeared and for good reason. The slice set up the big forehand. Roger has an amazing toppspinbackhand, but uses slice more often now.

Serve:
Both don't have the most powerful serve, yet a powerful and a difficult serve. Steffi at the end of her career still could hit very good serves. Roger's serve is awesome.

Footwork:
No one is better than Steffi in that department, but Roger is a very good mover as well, always on time. Both look like they are dancing on the court.

On court presence:
When Queen Steffi walked on court: you knew she was the boss. Roger has a lighter attitude, but because of his brilliance he looks like a King on court.

Mortality as a tennisplayer:
They could/can be beaten, but itwas/is, very , very difficult. Both are pretty point players and hate losing.

Mental:
Steffi has the edge on court, but Roger is much more relaxed on and off court, therebye appears to take a lose better than Steffi.

May posters think that Henin-Hardenne is Roger's female counterpart, but I think that player who comes around every 20 years is gone from Steffi to Roger.

 

[sliceroni]

Thanks for the post, enjoyed reading that. Agree %100 with the footwork, both position themselves effortlessly and are light on their feet like friggin cats.

 

[Warriorroger]

Thanks for the post, enjoyed reading that. Agree %100 with the footwork, both position themselves effortlessly and are light on their feet like friggin cats.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Grimjack]

Similar in that both are/were very freaking dominant, but I don't see a lot of similarities in the way they get business done. Both have huge FH's, but for Roger, it's the biggest weapon in a really big arsenal; for Steffi, it was the arsenal. Not saying she COULDN'T do anything else -- she just didn't bother for 99% of her career.

Steffi had a lot more in common with someone like Jimmy Arias from a weapons/strategy standpoint. It's just that that game was a lot more dominant against a field of WTA'ers than it was against the ATP.

 

[FiveO]

Similar in that both are/were very freaking dominant, but I don't see a lot of similarities in the way they get business done. Both have huge FH's, but for Roger, it's the biggest weapon in a really big arsenal; for Steffi, it was the arsenal. Not saying she COULDN'T do anything else -- she just didn't bother for 99% of her career.

Steffi had a lot more in common with someone like Jimmy Arias from a weapons/strategy standpoint. It's just that that game was a lot more dominant against a field of WTA'ers than it was against the ATP.

While not the pure mover Steffi was, I always saw a parallel between Lendl and Graf. Both the pinnacle of the one devastating weapon era in the men's and women's games. Biggish serves, neither ever coming to net even on grass, more slice off the bh in baseline exchanges than topspin although Lendl improved his topspin bh later on in his career to better pass the net-rushers of his day, both always looking to break open and/or end the point with their huge fh's willing to run around their bh's alot to do so.

 

[rommil]

No disrespect to Graf's accomplishment but in today's game, Graf's backhand would be a very inviting weakness for today's women players to attack.

 

[Warriorroger]

No disrespect to Graf's accomplishment but in today's game, Graf's backhand would be a very inviting weakness for today's women players to attack.

As a fan it is difficult to stay objective, but I disagree. Her game would be different today. 3 different generations have tried to exploit the Graf backhand and none have done succesfully. There's too much emphasis on the power bit today. Roger Federer has a field with many players who are more powerful than he is, in peak form he wins. Steffi has the mental edge and is better on foot (at peak age) than any of today's players. We will never know, you could be right, so could I.

 

[Warriorroger]

Similar in that both are/were very freaking dominant, but I don't see a lot of similarities in the way they get business done. Both have huge FH's, but for Roger, it's the biggest weapon in a really big arsenal; for Steffi, it was the arsenal. Not saying she COULDN'T do anything else -- she just didn't bother for 99% of her career.

Steffi had a lot more in common with someone like Jimmy Arias from a weapons/strategy standpoint. It's just that that game was a lot more dominant against a field of WTA'ers than it was against the ATP.

You're right, in today's game she should have played a different game, we saw glimpes of that in her last battles with Venus. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Polaris]

Agree about the footwork, dominance, movement, forehand and serve, but gamewise, as Grimjack has noted, Federer is way more rounded. About the court presence, I think both are intimidating in their own ways. Between rallies, Federer walks with a languid ease, and on most points, you wouldn't know if he has won the point or lost it. Graf on the other hand seemed a lot more intense. When Federer receives serve for example, he just twirls his racket constantly (as do a few other players). Graf seemed much more earnest while receiving serve.

I recall reading that Graf occasionally just pounded her forehand, and started walking back to the base line for the next point, even before the ball had crossed the bewildered opponent. How intimidating that must have been!

An important difference is that, off-court, Federer is far more comfortable with the press, than Graf used to be.

{Edited for accuracy: service line -> baseline}

 

[Warriorroger]

Agree about the footwork, dominanace, movement, forehand and serve, but gamewise, as Grimjack has noted, Federer is way more rounded. About the court presence, I think both are intimidating in their own ways. Between rallies, Federer walks with a languid ease, and on most points, you wouldn't know if he has won the point or lost it. Graf on the other hand seemed a lot more intense. When Federer receives serve for example, he just twirls his racket constantly (as do a few other players). Graf seemed much more earnest while receiving serve.

I recall reading that Graf occasionally just pounded her forehand, and started walking back to the service line for the next point, even before the ball had crossed the bewildered opponent. How intimidating that must have been!An important difference is that, off-court, Federer is far more comfortable with the press, than Graf used to be.

Yeah, I still have tapes of that, it sounds more arrogant than it was. It was a funny side to see. She would an incredible forehand and the other player started running and Graf acted like: I am getting ready for the new point.

 

[rommil]

As a fan it is difficult to stay objective, but I disagree. Her game would be different today. 3 different generations have tried to exploit the Graf backhand and none have done succesfully. There's too much emphasis on the power bit today. Roger Federer has a field with many players who are more powerful than he is, in peak form he wins. Steffi has the mental edge and is better on foot (at peak age) than any of today's players. We will never know, you could be right, so could I.

What I am trying to say is that Graf would have to develop a much more aggressive type of shot on the backhand side. She would not get away with the same strategy of running around to hit a big forehand as well. That would leave a chronic opening to exploit.The women today can hit the ball with power and consistency more so than the ones before them.

 

[Warriorroger]

What I am trying to say is that Graf would have to develop a much more aggressive type of shot on the backhand side. She would not get away with the same strategy of running around to hit a big forehand as well. That would leave a chronic opening to exploit.The women today can hit the ball with power and consistency more so than the ones before them.

Monica Seles hit with more power and accuracy than any of today's players. You are right about the running around the forehand, but Graf didn't do that much at the Wimbledon 99 match against Venus. IMO the agressive slice set up the bal high for the forehand. If she were to exhange only agressive topspins, you would get the battles you get today in women's tennis, hard against hard, who makes the first error. She would be more like Roger today.

 

[Happyneige]

What I am trying to say is that Graf would have to develop a much more aggressive type of shot on the backhand side. She would not get away with the same strategy of running around to hit a big forehand as well. That would leave a chronic opening to exploit.The women today can hit the ball with power and consistency more so than the ones before them.

Monica Seles once said in a press conference that she struggled more with Graf's slice backhand than the famous sledgehammer forehand. This was verified by other contemporary players in Graf's time. I actually would like to see how Sharapova or Clijsters handle low, deep slice in today's game. Given the popularized one-dimensional game where everyone hits heavy topspins with Western or SW grips, I bet it would make a lot of current WTA players wrong-footed and commit errors.

Now back to the original post, I think Graf and Federer both are dominant and athletic but I wouldn't call Federer the male avatar of Graf. Federer seems to have more variety and can pretty much hit winners from all angles of the court. Graf would rely on well-placed shots for rally but almost exclusively use her forehand to end the point. One thing that made Graf as great as she was, was her rivals. Federer has yet to have a viable challenger who will emphasizes his greatness.

 

[rommil]

Monica Seles hit with more power and accuracy than any of today's players. You are right about the running around the forehand, but Graf didn't do that much at the Wimbledon 99 match against Venus. IMO the agressive slice set up the bal high for the forehand. If she were to exhange only agressive topspins, you would get the battles you get today in women's tennis, hard against hard, who makes the first error. She would be more like Roger today.

I really have a problem with equating Federer's game to Graf's. Federer's all around game is pretty much covered in every aspect where as Graf tend to depend on her forehand to make the kill, never mind the fact of her relatively mediocre net play. I am not sure about the first statement either even though I am a very big fan of Seles. Even though you pointed out that one match against Venus, Graf in most of her career, had to run around to hit a forehand to hit most of the winners. Also, a lot of the players now are hitting the ball early whereas Graf hit it later on its path.

 

[morgan102]

...Also, a lot of the players now are hitting the ball early whereas Graf hit it later on its path.

Good catch. Graf was a notoriously late hitter, catching the ball low and on its way down. Its how she kept that slice as low as she did.

I definitely wouldn't call Federer Graf's counterpart. Roger's game is much more complete than Steffi's, and as has been duly noted, Steffi had to have great footwork to run around those backhands. Nice comparisons, though I don't think we have a male counterpart to Graf.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

No male player would get away with a slice backhand, and such late reactions on the return of serve. She got away with it except against players like Seles, and at the end of her career Davenport and Venus, who could take advantage of loose balls off the backhand and return to clobber winners.

 

[Warriorroger]

Good catch. Graf was a notoriously late hitter, catching the ball low and on its way down. Its how she kept that slice as low as she did.

I definitely wouldn't call Federer Graf's counterpart. Roger's game is much more complete than Steffi's, and as has been duly noted, Steffi had to have great footwork to run around those backhands. Nice comparisons, though I don't think we have a male counterpart to Graf.

Graf didn't hit late, as two poster stated. Her racket preparation was late, but the actuall hitting of the ball was early, otherwise she could have never hit on the rise. Because of the late preparation one tends to thinks she hit late, but in fact she didn't, and with that technique you get the wiphlash forehand.

I agree that Roger's game is more complete, that's why I said he's the improved male version of the Graf game. Next time you see him, try to get a percentage of sliced backhands he hit and the postion from wher he hits the forehand plus his footwork, maybe you see what I see.

 

[wtaplayerz]

I don't think Roger Federer can ever be compared to a one dimentional player like Steffi Graf. Roger's shotmaking ability as well his variety of shots is clearly more superior than Steffi's.

Steffi Graf was a lucky player that she dominated women's tennis at the tail end of the Navratilova-Evert Rivalry as well as after the Stabbing of World number one Monica Seles in April 1993.

 

[rommil]

Graf didn't hit late, as two poster stated. Her racket preparation was late, but the actuall hitting of the ball was early, otherwise she could have never hit on the rise. Because of the late preparation one tends to thinks she hit late, but in fact she didn't, and with that technique you get the wiphlash forehand.

I agree that Roger's game is more complete, that's why I said he's the improved male version of the Graf game. Next time you see him, try to get a percentage of sliced backhands he hit and the postion from wher he hits the forehand plus his footwork, maybe you see what I see.

You can see what you want to see. I have seen a lot of Graf and a lot of Federer matches and what you are trying to sell is just too far off. If you want to ask my opinion, the closest female(when she is on) that I could equate with Federer's completeness of game is Justine Henin Hardene.

 

[callitout]

The only similarities are movement and killer forehand. As others have posted, Roger's game includes much more variety and crucially includes exceptional net play. He does so much more than power players off the court whereas Steffi never needed to do more than power her opponents off the court.

 

[35ft6]

Biggish serves, neither ever coming to net even on grass, more slice off the bh in baseline exchanges than topspin although Lendl improved his topspin bh later on in his career to better pass the net-rushers of his day, both always looking to break open and/or end the point with their huge fh's willing to run around their bh's alot to do so.

That's not how I remember Lendl. I recall his topspin backand always being dependable and Roche making him develop the slice to improve his chances on grass.

 

[kosmikgroove]

You can see what you want to see. I have seen a lot of Graf and a lot of Federer matches and what you are trying to sell is just too far off. If you want to ask my opinion, the closest female(when she is on) that I could equate with Federer's completeness of game is Justine Henin Hardene.

Absolutely correct with the Justine H-H comment.

No other player in the WTA top 20, with the exception of the pint-sized belgian, plays a game even remotely similar to Federer.

 

[Aykhan Mammadov]

To post 1.

I completely disagree with this thread. Why to build any similarities between these two players ? They don't look similar AT ALL, absolutely 2 different ends of a segment.

YES, Steffi is great woman player with 22 GS titles she leads in the history of women tennis. But it doesn't mean she is the most talented. Say, I regard Hingis more talented than Steffi. IMO Steffi tennis is a little not to say 1 -dimensional, but maybe 2-dimesnional. Her main trump is her endurance, her character.

Conversely, in the case of Federer only blind spectator can't understand that he is most genius player in the history, most diversified we ever watched despite to the moment he has not won biggest number of GS. And conversely, endurance and character are not his trumps. Rather his talent, feeling of the ball, understanding of tennis are his trumps.

Absolutely missing similarities. Only similarity concerning tennis maybe that both are tennis players.

 

[35ft6]

I really don't see it either. Graf's forehand was even more of a dominating shot in the WTA than Federer's is now in the ATP.

 

[Joe Pike]

I have discussed this on the Steffi Graf admiration thread and the Roger Federer web site. Are there more tennisfans who see similarities between Steffi Graf and Roger Federer. To me it's almost like Roger Federer is a male improved 'model'of the Steffi Graf tennisplayer 'model'.
...

"Improved"?
Are you nuts?
Graf's legs were far more beautiful ....

 

[kabob]

Good catch. Graf was a notoriously late hitter, catching the ball low and on its way down. Its how she kept that slice as low as she did.

I definitely wouldn't call Federer Graf's counterpart. Roger's game is much more complete than Steffi's, and as has been duly noted, Steffi had to have great footwork to run around those backhands. Nice comparisons, though I don't think we have a male counterpart to Graf.

We do in James Blake. Even with his resurgence late this year in which he improved his topspin backhand into a much more effective, reliable shot, Blake relied heavily on running around his backhand to hit his heavy forehand and his court movement was and is extremely quick.

 

[Warriorroger]

"Improved"?
Are you nuts?
Graf's legs were far more beautiful ....

LOL he has great big feet though! I know

 

[fererrodf]

Actually, there's no point. Cannot compare the both. Both good in their own ways and how they bring/brought tennis to a new level in their ways. Of course, Roger's a better all-round game than Graf.

 

[Warriorroger]

Actually, there's no point. Cannot compare the both. Both good in their own ways and how they bring/brought tennis to a new level in their ways. Of course, Roger's a better all-round game than Graf.

Well said!

 

[Nalbandian]

Well said!

Gunther Parche in the making...That's Warriorroger!

 

[devila]

Federer wouldn't be number 1 if he had a little slower footwork.

 

[Applez]

No offense to Graf, but I don't see similarities at all

 

[Nalbandian]

No offense to Graf, but I don't see similarities at all

Exactly... it's just this fanatical Warriormoron is trying to compare the Great Roger to that overrated Graf.

 

[Warriorroger]

No offense to Graf, but I don't see similarities at all

I tried to explain the similarities in the dominance and certain elements of the game.

Similar:
footwork, slice, forehand position (not the actual stroke)

Of course Roger is far more complete player, a warmer person on the outside, I see that, but there are (IMO) a couple of things which are similar. Thanks for being civil Applez!

 

[Nalbandian]

I tried to explain the similarities in the dominance and certain elements of the game.

The purpose of this thread is for you to promote your obsessions at the expense of the Great Roger Federer.

 

[skip1969]

one thing they have in common: they scare(d) the crap out of their opponents when at the top. that's the kind of weapon you can't teach at the local club. and they use(d) it to perfection.

 

[AeonT]

pathetic thread, ha, ha, ha

 

[AeonT]

Exactly... it's just this fanatical Warriormoron is trying to compare the Great Roger to that overrated Graf.

In 2001, she was named most overrated by SI after she dominated the sports again after the Seles Tragedy.

Roger is way more talented and is dominant with a much tougher competition.

 

[rommil]

I tried to explain the similarities in the dominance and certain elements of the game.

Similar:
footwork, slice, forehand position (not the actual stroke)

Of course Roger is far more complete player, a warmer person on the outside, I see that, but there are (IMO) a couple of things which are similar. Thanks for being civil Applez!

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Okay, let me point out something else. Not to take away from Graf's achievement but Federer can easily hit a passing shot on the backhand while Graf........well, you can finish the rest.

 

[Michael Haller]

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Okay, let me point out something else. Not to take away from Graf's achievement but Federer can easily hit a passing shot on the backhand while Graf........well, you can finish the rest.

Just ask Navratilova or Novotna about whether Graf can hit a BH passing shot or not, Dumbo ...

 

[Nalbandian]

Just ask Navratilova or Novotna about whether Graf can hit a BH passing shot or not, Dumbo ...

Yes Joe Psychooooooo Pike ,horrible slice backhand from that overrated german...

 

[Warriorroger]

one thing they have in common: they scare(d) the crap out of their opponents when at the top. that's the kind of weapon you can't teach at the local club. and they use(d) it to perfection.

Thanks Skip for the civil reply. That happens between us 30 something guys

Ps I like your reply can I use it in my signature?

 

[AeonT]

Thanks Skip for the civil reply. That happens between us 30 something guys

Ps I like your reply can I use it in my signature?

You are an obsessed weirdo! and your "gods" created Gunther Parche and Warriorroger!

 

[AeonT]

Yes Joe Psychooooooo Pike ,horrible slice backhand from that overrated german...

Exactly!

 

[Michael Haller]

Yes Joe Psychooooooo Pike ,horrible slice backhand from that overrated german...

LOL!
A Seles fan talking of "overrated"!
Good one - Tundra!!