Andre Agassi picks Rafael Nadal ahead of Roger Federer as tennis's greatest all-time

I predicted this would happen. Press, people invested in the game forget about the old players and try to hype up the current stars, the same thing happened to federer and some could argue he should have never been the goat over laver or gonzales and sampras at first benefitted the same way. Not all surprising.
 
This is the cycle all former pros go through with current pros.

They all ranted and raved about Fed through his prime, but once he passed agassi and sampras all the pros and commentators started hyping up different players.

This has happened all throughout the open era.

Everyone needs to just go by numbers and chill out. It would be nice if people on the board weren't so obsessed with bashing Nadal and Fed. Maybe we would get some higher level discussion going instead of constant trolling.
 
History will remember the players whose records are being chased. The next generation can't chase a (highly skewed) h2h. Nadal's claim to fame is his clay domination and his h2h with Federer. He has nothing else going for him.

Having said that, Nadal has hid in the shadow of Federer for far too long. If getting picked #1 by a meth addict gives Nadal some extra pressure, which we know he can't handle, I'm all for it
haha.gif

You were one of the first to bandwagon the hatred for Nadal when he got beat by Wawrinka and now look you get all defensive over this guys comments. What a hypocrite.

Pot, Kettle and Black come to my mind. If you and other Federer fans can't take other peoples opinions especially that of a "meth" addict tennis legend, well I suggest you grow up and show some decency

Edit: I can't spell.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why did the previous thread got deleted? Is mod a Federer fan? There are so many Fed Is GOAT worship threads around without getting deleted? Is this even fair??

I disagree with Agassi's ranking, but I certainly see no reason for a thread like this to be deleted based on the subject matter alone (maybe if it erupted into endless profanity and/or libel, but that's a different story). I hate it when seemingly legitimate tennis discussions suddenly vanish with no explanation.
 
You where one of the first to bandwagon the hatred for Nadal when he got beat by Wawrinka and now look you get all defensive over this guys comments. What a hypocrite.

Pot, Kettle and Black come to my mind. If you and other Federer fans can't take other peoples opinions especially that of a "meth" addict tennis legends, well I suggest you grow up and show some decency

It is apparently you who can't handle my opinion. And if you can't, I suggest you stop visiting here or put me on ignore.

By the way, I'm not a band wagoner. I've hated Nadal since forever. Like most tennis fans.
 
It appears they intentionally try to disrupt this topic so that it gets deleted.

People should learn to respect other peoples opinions without going mad or hurling abuse about Agassi's past to try to defile him because his comments hit a nerve.

My opinion is Federer is the greatest player of the open era based on his slam count, Nadal is the greatest Clay courter and if he beats the 17 slam count then he is the greatest player in the Open Era.
 
It is apparently you who can't handle my opinion. And if you can't, I suggest you stop visiting here or put me on ignore.

By the way, I'm not a band wagoner. I've hated Nadal since forever. Like most tennis fans.

Just cos he's beaten Fed so many times....:lol:
 
LOL what I find the most laughable is:
Nadal had to deal with Federer, Djokovic, Murray in the golden age of tennis.

Anybody putting Murray in a group that is called the "golden age of tennis" is out of touch with reality.

I'd say the golden age would be more applicable to when Borg, McEnroe, Connors, and Ashe were playing.

Andre conveniently forgets to mention Federer won 13 of his slams after Rafa had become a grand slam champion himself. So in reality Federer is on a 1:1 ratio with Nadal on grand slams one all while being 5 years older than Nadal.
Roger also has won 5 grand slams since Novak won his first in 2008. Novak has won 6 to this point.

And we dont even need to mention all the other records Federer has.

Ah, the bandwagoneers. I'd like Agassi to give some real hard evidence that supports Nadal being above Federer on the all time list. H2H, ok there is one check. Where are the others?
 
At the same respective age Federer is still ahead Nadal. Federer has 14 slams to Nadal 13. Federer has more weeks at #1, 4 WTF, and won more Wimbledon.


And most fans have Nadal behind Sampras, who is 1 tier below Federer.
Nadal vs. Sampras: Who's The Greater Player

TMF, why do you keep saying Sampras is 1 tier below Federer?

Do you think every player, even all-time greats like Sampras, Borg, Laver etc. are all 1 tier below Federer?

I think Fed is GOAT but I would never say he is in a separate tier to the other all-time legends.
 
Ah, the bandwagoneers. I'd like Agassi to give some real hard evidence that supports Nadal being above Federer on the all time list. H2H, ok there is one check. Where are the others?

Agassi's opinions are always based on, "What is most subjectively impressive to me, Andre Agassi." His views had the same degree of substance when he was touting Federer over Sampras pretty early in Fed's career. In addition, Agassi always has been pretty clear about his general belief in the progressive nature of tennis: the overall level is always rising. Thus, the guy who most impresses him today will get the nod over the guy who most impressed him yesterday. Hard numbers don't play much of a role in this kind of opining, which I suppose is fine for a celeb.
 
TMF, why do you keep saying Sampras is 1 tier below Federer?

Do you think every player, even all-time greats like Sampras, Borg, Laver etc. are all 1 tier below Federer?

I think Fed is GOAT but I would never say he is in a separate tier to the other all-time legends.

If you want to argue Federer/Sampras are in the same tier then you must have Agassi, Connors, Lendl, Mac in the same tier with Borg. The general consensus is those 4 are below Borg by 1 tier, and I don't see the reason why Fed/Sampras shouldn't be separated by 1 tier when the gap between them is just as big, if not bigger.
 
I guess Andre is right to a certain degree. After all, 10-23 (2-9) is downright ownage :D

No man has lost more than 8 times in Slams to one player. Except Roger, of course.
 
Last edited:
This is the cycle all former pros go through with current pros.

They all ranted and raved about Fed through his prime, but once he passed agassi and sampras all the pros and commentators started hyping up different players.

This has happened all throughout the open era.

Everyone needs to just go by numbers and chill out. It would be nice if people on the board weren't so obsessed with bashing Nadal and Fed. Maybe we would get some higher level discussion going instead of constant trolling.

There is no level of discussion on this topic. Everybody knows the pros and cons in the debate between Federer and Nadal so that has been as constant as the trolling. It is not like the actual debate is any "higher level" than the trolling. They're both the same crap over and over again.

Truth is, people just need to accept the fact that Federer is largely regarded as the best at this point because he has the most GS and many other important records, but that is boring so instead they try to tear him down, as if it makes a difference.
 
Last edited:
There is no level of discussion on this topic.
Who is talking about discussion? This is simply tennis news and obviously belongs on a tennis forum.

Perhaps you should send a mail to "The Daily Telegraph" asking them to censor this kind of news because Steve0904 thinks it is high level trolling. Wanna guess what they would tell you if they would actually bother to reply?
 
My opinion (if it matters) is Federer has 17 slams and so is the greatest player in the Open Era, Nadal is the greatest Clay courter yet could catch and take Federer's 17 slams and thus becoming the greatest player in the Open Era.

Now to the Admins, yes I know this site has a Federer bias but I ask why is it fair to let certain users derail a thread because they don't like this "Tennis Legend's" opinion? I guess George Orwell wasn't writing fictional novels after all, as long as the comments are classy and respectful is the thread so bad?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you want to argue Federer/Sampras are in the same tier then you must have Agassi, Connors, Lendl, Mac in the same tier with Borg. The general consensus is those 4 are below Borg by 1 tier, and I don't see the reason why Fed/Sampras shouldn't be separated by 1 tier when the gap between them is just as big, if not bigger.

But Sampras is not a tier below Federer because the gap between 8 and 11 GS is not the same as the gap between 14 and 17. As you get higher up the gap shrinks even though the difference in number of GS is the same. As such, Sampras and Federer are on the same tier.
 
Who is talking about discussion? This is simply tennis news and obviously belongs on a tennis forum.

Perhaps you should send a mail to "The Daily Telegraph" asking them to censor this kind of news because Steve0904 thinks it is high level trolling. Wanna guess what they would tell you if they would actually bother to reply?

I like beer btw. Not wine.
 
I hope anyone isn't buying this. Agassi is just trolling. It's probably for fun or some kind of publicity stunt. Or he was trying to get rid of reporters.

I mean his statement is full of contradictions, circular reasoning and hypotheticals. Rafa is one major away from double career slam? So is Fed. Fed is also one major away from CYGS. And funny how Agassi thinks career slam is the biggest thing. I guess it has nothing to with him inflating his career praising Rafa, who like Agassi won Golden slam.

Agassi, nice trolling attempt. You need to come here at TW to get some lessons.
 
But Sampras is not a tier below Federer because the gap between 8 and 11 GS is not the same as the gap between 14 and 17. As you get higher up the gap shrinks even though the difference in number of GS is the same. As such, Sampras and Federer are on the same tier.

Sorry.

It is easier to go from 8-11 because age will be on your side.

Going from 14-17 is multiple times difficult.

Let us see how long Nadal takes to go from 13 to 16.

The only reason Borg is in same tier as Sampras is because AO was not important then.
 
Sorry.

It is easier to go from 8-11 because age will be on your side.

Going from 14-17 is multiple times difficult.

Let us see how long Nadal takes to go from 13 to 16.

The only reason Borg is in same tier as Sampras is because AO was not important then.

But then if the AO was "important" and Borg decided to play he may have more majors than Sampras. Come on man, that was too easy.
 
Sorry.

It is easier to go from 8-11 because age will be on your side.

Going from 14-17 is multiple times difficult.

Let us see how long Nadal takes to go from 13 to 16.

The only reason Borg is in same tier as Sampras is because AO was not important then.

Yeah. Last 3-4 majors is insanely hard. Because you lose mental edge, physical edge and motivation and other guys believe they can beat you and are younger and hungrier.

Last 3 majors is what goat is all about. That's why nobody in the open era won over 14 majors.

You lose motivation, are tired, you want family. It takes a lot of sacrifice.
 
But then if the AO was "important" and Borg decided to play he may have more majors than Sampras. Come on man, that was too easy.

4 majors is a big big difference.

Players like Hewitt, Safin , Murray who are supposedly super heroes have not achieved that in their career.

If you want to fault Borg, then put him at tier 3 but it remains that Sampras is one tier below Fed given the disparity in their achievements.

H2H is the "ticket for fame" for the current field. A reference to Fed is needed , whereas Fed standsalone at the pinnacle of the game.
 
Last edited:
But Sampras is not a tier below Federer because the gap between 8 and 11 GS is not the same as the gap between 14 and 17. As you get higher up the gap shrinks even though the difference in number of GS is the same. As such, Sampras and Federer are on the same tier.

You have a good point. However I wasn't just based on slam counts but other criteria. Federer won the FO and has a career slam. He has everything over Sampras except the Year End #1. Statistically, Federer has better numbers than Sampras on all 4 slam tournaments, winning %, and level of domination.

Borg doesn't have everything over the other tier II great. Agassi has a career slam. Lendl has more Master Series equivalent, titles, and weeks at #1. Connors has more weeks at #1, more titles. Borg clearly was better at the FO and Wimbledon, but the other players were better than him at the USO, and Agassi clearly better at AO.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if one day Agassi picks Thiem or Krygios (provided they became as succesful as Fed and Nadal) over Nadal.
 
Look i don't doubt the fact that Agassi may have some solid arguments.

But he is wrong on other aspects.

1) Nadal did not have all his success during fed's prime. He did not win the USO during fed's prime for example. He did not have his other best seasons 2010 and 2013 during Fed's prime. It is laughable to suggest Fed was in his prime in either of those years.

2)What is so remarkable about nadal being 1 slam away from the double career slam? So is Federer. And he has much better numbers than Rafa at 3 of the 4 slams. Fed has also been much closer to the calendar slam than Rafa ever was.

3)It is foolish on Andre's part that he ignores 34 matches between Federer and Djokovic and 21 matches between Fed and Murray. Fed played those guys just as much as Rafa did. And he did it while he was approaching the end of his prime as well, making his life much more difficult. He also can't ignore 16 slam matches between Fed and those 2.

4) The golden era of tennis began in 2011, when Djokovic and later Murray started being contenders at pretty much every slam, which was not the case in the previous years. Nadal won most of his slams before the golden era of tennis
 
Look i don't doubt the fact that Agassi may have some solid arguments.

But he is wrong on other aspects.

1) Nadal did not have all his success during fed's prime. He did not win the USO during fed's prime for example. He did not have his other best seasons 2010 and 2013 during Fed's prime. It is laughable to suggest Fed was in his prime in either of those years.

2)What is so remarkable about nadal being 1 slam away from the double career slam? So is Federer. And he has much better numbers than Rafa at 3 of the 4 slams. Fed has also been much closer to the calendar slam than Rafa ever was.

3)It is foolish on Andre's part that he ignores 34 matches between Federer and Djokovic and 21 matches between Fed and Murray. Fed played those guys just as much as Rafa did. And he did it while he was approaching the end of his prime as well, making his life much more difficult. He also can't ignore 16 slam matches between Fed and those 2.

4) The golden era of tennis began in 2011, when Djokovic and later Murray started being contenders at pretty much every slam, which was not the case in the previous years. Nadal won most of his slams before the golden era of tennis

Agassi does a lot of this in general. I find he often tells half the story, and leaves out a few important details. The way some of these people talk, Fed would be better off retiring and not breaking Sampras's record for weeks at #1 or winning a 17th slam.
 
But Sampras is not a tier below Federer because the gap between 8 and 11 GS is not the same as the gap between 14 and 17. As you get higher up the gap shrinks even though the difference in number of GS is the same. As such, Sampras and Federer are on the same tier.

Fed has tons of stuff more than "just" 3 majors:
-masters, Pete is not even close
-WTF title
-weeks nr.1, consecutive weeks nr.1
-23 semis, Pete doesn't come close
-24 consecutive finals won, Pete doesn't come close
-more additional GS finals
-career slam

Also 3 majors in itself is enough to separate them. 3 majors is huge. That is career of Hewitt + Roddick. Also winning last 3 majors when you are past your best is a lot harder. Any additional major past 14 is insanely hard. That's why nobody in the open era is close to 17.

But even for the biggest skeptics who think 3 is not enough, Fed still has tons of stuff.

And I didn't even mention more than half of stuff Fed has over Pete including Olympic gold+silver.

Doesn't really matter, because Fed is a tier above Sampras. We can argue Fed had to deal with nr.2, five years younger and surface goat, otherwise he has 22 majors and CYGS. I think if we put Fed's career in context he has 22 majors, so we can argue that he is 2 tiers above Pete with 22 majors.

Agassi doesn't come close to Nadal as rival. Agassi was the best after Pete already won most. Also they are the same Age, while Nadal has age advantage over Fed.

People use some common sense. Fed had to deal with a rival who is arguably even better than Sampras himself, bad matchup and a lefty and has age advantage.
 
Last edited:
I think his reasoning is pretty weak. I don't think this is a particularly "golden age". That argument has always struck me as false. Also, Nadal didn't do "everything" during Federer's prime. And I don't know what it means to "not discount" Laver.
 
A TW thread is no indicator of "most fans."

It's a public poll just like anywhere else on the internet. Other public site like The Tennis Channel have Sampras ahead of Nadal, at least for now. The future may change depends on how much Nadal wins.

Capiche ?
 
Fed has tons of stuff more than "just" 3 majors:
-masters, Pete is not even close
-WTF title
-weeks nr.1, consecutive weeks nr.1
-23 semis, Pete doesn't come close
-24 consecutive finals won, Pete doesn't come close
-more additional GS finals
-career slam

Also 3 majors in itself is enough to separate them. 3 majors is huge. That is career of Hewitt + Roddick. Also winning last 3 majors when you are past your best is a lot harder. Any additional major past 14 is insanely hard. That's why nobody in the open era is close to 17.

But even for the biggest skeptics who think 3 is not enough, Fed still has tons of stuff.

And I didn't even mention more than half of stuff Fed has over Pete including Olympic gold+silver.

Doesn't really matter, because Fed is a tier above Sampras. We can argue Fed had to deal with nr.2, five years younger and surface goat, otherwise he has 22 majors and CYGS. I think if we put Fed's career in context he has 22 majors, so we can argue that he is 2 tiers above Pete with 22 majors.

Agassi doesn't come close to Nadal as rival. Agassi was the best after Pete already won most. Also they are the same Age, while Nadal has age advantage over Fed.

Sampras and Federer are on the same tier. End of story. I'm sorry, but anybody who says otherwise is trying way too hard to be a fanboy.
 
Sampras and Federer are on the same tier. End of story. I'm sorry, but anybody who says otherwise is trying way too hard to be a fanboy.

Toni Nadal doesn't agree. He said Fed is a tier above Pete.

If it turns out Rafa will surpass Pete, Fed will be even 2 tiers above Pete.
 
Last edited:
Sampras and Federer are in the same tier. The biggest difference between them is their clay prowess, which isn't a big deal.

Also, although surface slowing has hurt Federer, Sampras accomplished what he did without surface homogenization, which is impressive in its own right.
 
Sampras and Federer are on the same tier. End of story. I'm sorry, but anybody who says otherwise is trying way too hard to be a fanboy.

By this logic , since 3-4 major difference is not significant

Sampras and Federer are on same tier
Borg and Sampras are on same tier
Agassi and Borg are on same tier
Novak and Agassi are on same tier
Murray and Novak are on same tier
Dmitrov and Murray are on same tier.

Therefore Federer = Dmitrov.
 
Ok, we can agree to disagree.

I don't agree the idea of Federer/Sampras are in the same tier and at the same time having Borg/Lendl a tier separation. It's a double standard.
 
Sampras and Federer are in the same tier. The biggest difference between them is their clay prowess, which isn't a big deal.

Also, although surface slowing has hurt Federer, Sampras accomplished what he did without surface homogenization, which is impressive in its own right.

Not sure if it was you, but were you the one who said Sampras and Nadal is separated by 1 tier ?
 
Not sure if it was you, but were you the one who said Sampras and Nadal is separated by 1 tier ?

I did say that. Nadal isn't even top 5. He has dominated 1 surface and the least respected one at that.

He is also a terrible champion. Look at his performance as world #1. Or his ability to defend titles off the dirt.
 
Back
Top