C
Cenarius
Guest
Yes he can.But that doesn't make him a feminist.IMO.
Andy Murray accuses Verdasco of cheating by illegal coaching
- Thread starter Aussie Darcy
- Start date
Yes he can.But that doesn't make him a feminist.IMO.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
It's a broad concept.
C
Cenarius
Guest
Indeed.
You'd be surprised how little players and coaches know about these kinds of specific rules.
Bukmeikara
Legend
I personally believe Andy. He plays possum on court but off court he is well spoken and has a code of honor. If someone is capable to turn down money(probably big amount of it) from sponsors just because he doesnt like the product than he likely wouldnt be bitter for a sole defeat. Also he is a champion and part of the reason for that is that he accepts his bad days and dont go down the road to find exuces.
LaZeR
Professional
True ~ it seems like all of Federer's, Djokovic's, and Wawrinka's comebacks have been much more solid and strong.
LaZeR
Professional
Funny thing is during these 10 minute locker room breaks Djokovic and his entourage break the same rule ALL THE TIME and NO ONE has ever called out Djokovic!
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WayneBretsky
Rookie
Verdasco is a clown. He's had numerous run ins. Even Kyrgios doesn't like him, and THAT is saying something.
Still haven't seen anything definitive that it's against the rules to speak to your team during the 10-minute break. All of the rules that I have seen on the topic allow coaching during the break and it's treated as any other suspension of play, e.g. rain, light etc.
LaZeR
Professional
Heard the commentators mention it several times. This is a NEW special 10-minute break ONLY between the 3rd and 4th sets. But, I think the 2018 Cincinnati tournament also implemented it.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ay-as-mercury-soars-at-u-s-open-idUSKCN1LD1WR
https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/articles/2018-08-28/us_open_implements_extreme_heat_policy.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/30/health/us-open-extreme-heat-sports/index.html
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Respectfully, how long the rule has existed doesn't matter. None of those articles specifically talk about meeting with coaches or your team during the stoppage in play. A 10-minute break rule has existed in the WTA and ITF rulebooks for some time. In my experience as an official I've worked at ITF Senior, ITF Junior and ITF Wheelchair events where heat rules were implemented. In those events, the 10-minute break is considered a suspension in play and is treated the same as any other suspension in play, such as a rain delay or a suspension due to light. In all cases where play is suspended the players may leave the court and meet with whoever they wish until they're called back to the court to resume the match. I realize that the US Open may have different rules; however, the USTA rules also specifically state that you may meet with coaches during a 10-minute stoppage due to heat. The WTA rulebook is specific in this area - players may meet with their coach for only 90 seconds either at the beginning or end of the 10-minute period and these 90 seconds count as part of the 10 minutes. No other coaching may take place. Would love to see a definitive rule as it relates to ATP players at the US Open.
LaZeR
Professional
We're NOT talking about Women's tennis, nor the ITF. We're talking about Men's tennis, the ATP, USTA. Women don't even play a 4th set!! These comparisons and arguments are completely moot.
Yes it does. Tournament Officials, the USTA, and ATP are doing players a BENEFIT and FAVOR by allowing this break. I think that 2018 is the first year it's been introduced. What's wrong with putting things in context??
Players should not assume to be egregious and illegally take advantage of this. Murray is 100% absolutely correct. Of course Murray and other players KNOW the RULES. You seem to be saying everyone is "making things up according to imagination". YOU are arguing against EVERYONE in OFFICIAL status.
Once again commentators described the restrictions many times. Have you been watching the Men's US Open matches? Djokovic's mishandling against this rule was also described. Tennis is an extremely mental sport. COACHING HAS IMPACTS ON PLAYERS' PSYCHE and MINDSET not to mention STRATEGY, which is DISALLOWED in the middle of a match.
No one claimed they do. However, they do specifically point out it's a NEW and TEMPORARY break only to allow the players some relief.
This is a GOOD POINT, and agree, but once again the new, special break, and associated rules, is TEMPORARY.
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No, we're not; however, it's reasonable to assume that they would model a rule based on existing rules. Given the size of these rulebooks, the actual differences between them are small. Without anything in writing from the USTA regarding the US Open it's not logical to assume that the rule is different from all of the other ones that exist in the tennis world.
Yes, this is the first year it's being used at the US Open. Once again, the amount of time a rule has been in effect is completely inconsequential to this discussion. You are claiming that Verdasco broke a rule. I am stating that nobody has been able to produce this rule in writing, or an official statement from any referee or ATP supervisor regarding what the actual rule is. You're the one trying to state definitely that the rule forbids coaching, and the evidence that you're putting forward is one player's complaint and the longevity of the rule.
No, I'm not saying that at all. Please don't build strawmen. In my experience players often misinterpret the rules. You've vehemently pointed out that this is a brand new rule - with colour and bold and caps and everything. Don't you think it's reasonable for there to be some confusion about this brand new rule? Once again, I'm not stating that Murray is wrong - I just haven't seen any evidence that he's right.
Yes, I have been. I haven't actually heard commentators cite any rule. Perhaps you could find a clip for me. Not sure what point you're trying to make about the impact of coaching. I'm aware of the rules regarding coaching. However, I have provided you with two scenarios in which players can legally receive coaching in the middle of a math - when play is suspended due to rain or when play is suspended due to light.
Well, then I'm not sure what you're arguing. My point is that we haven't seen the rule in writing or heard any official describe the rule. Your point is to tell me that the rule is new. I'm not sure what one has to do with the other. Are you suggesting that the rule is not finalized yet, and that somehow being new means it isn't written down or it's incomplete or the officials don't know?
Great! So we agree that nobody has been able to produce the actual rule regarding coaching during the 10-minute heat break. Given that, I'm curious how you can be so certain that Murray is correct.
LaZeR
Professional
Review your posts and see that you use the term/word "rule" dozens of times. Murray AND THIS DISCUSSION is referring to a NEW special BREAK, TEMPORARILY AUTHORIZED, to allow players some relief from the gruelling sun, heat, and humidity, only bewteen the 3rd & 4th set. There are rules ASSOCIATED with this. The rule is: players are not allowed coaching in the middle of a match. You say you're an umpire. Given that, you should have the resources to access this rule.
Can you pinpoint exactly where I claimed that? I am simply agreeing with Murray, the USTA, and ATP, that players are not allowed coaching in the middle of a match, medical break, washroom break, or other.
OK so on the one hand you say you're an umpire, and on the other hand you say that you're unaware of the rule that coaching is disallowed in the middle of a match, that this rule does NOT exist, and no one "has been able to produce this rule in writing, or an official statement from any referee or ATP supervisor". If you are in fact an umpire, and oblivious to this, it's pretty outrageous.
Of course the special 10 minute BREAK between the 3rd and 4th sets cannot be IMMEDIATELY written into any official documentation, because first of all it's TEMPORARY, and secondly it's NOT a rule.
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I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Coaching is allowed when play is suspended. Both the ATP and ITF rulebooks include this:
Case 2: Is a player allowed to receive coaching when play is suspended?
Decision: Yes.
So your claim that coaching is not allowed in the middle of a match is wrong. Coaching is not allowed during play.
Furthermore, some rulebooks specifically address the issue of coaching during a 10-minute break. The USTA states that:
USTA Comment 30.2:
Is coaching permitted during authorized rest
periods? Yes. Coaching is permitted during an authorized 3-minute or10-minute rest period.
The WTA rulebook allows 90-seconds of on-court coaching either at the start or end of the 10 minute period.
Once again, I'm not claiming that players are necessarily allowed to receive coaching during the 10-minute rest period at the US Open; however, I have not seen any document or heard any official statement indicating that they are not. Furthermore, if ATP players at the US Open were indeed unable to see their coaches during the 10-minute heat rest period, this would be inconsistent with the way the rule is applied at most other levels of tennis. That in and of itself is not a problem - but I hope you can see why it's not so easy for you to stand by your claims.
VigiliantEagle
New User
Murray is a whiner nothing new.Breaking news will be the day he is not.
LaZeR
Professional
@ CdnUmp ~ if you're watching the men's Quarter Finals match, Cilic vs Nishikori, in the 4th set, Cilic serving at 0-1, 30-Love, the announcer clearly states about the 10 minute break, among other things, and I quote verbatim, "they cannot speak to anyone in their coaching team" and "cannot get treated by a physio or masseuse on your own team". There's your proof.
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Thanks for the info. I'll assume it came to the announcer from a tournament official. Once again, I never claimed to know what the rule was - I only stated how the rule is applied in other contexts and the fact that, until now, nobody has been able to give me anything definitive.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Federer on the brain as alwaysDon't do this Andy. Don't take the Federer road.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Also Murray can't talk on this subject.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Why not? Shouldn't he know when a player is being coached?
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
He does it himself
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
I know, since he does it himself he can recognize when others are doing it.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
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