Andy Murray booed after underarm service...

goldengate14

Professional
What do you think ? :)

MEDIA=twitter]1447314844588261376[/MEDIA]


You can see his interview at 3:00

Indian wells has an older crowd who are more tradiomalists so an under arm serve is considered disrespectful. In miami though Murraybwould be cheered as the crowd is much yoinger generally.
he has not broke any rules. But then again neither did Tsitsipas against him
 

norcal

Legend
Indian wells has an older crowd who are more tradiomalists so an under arm serve is considered disrespectful. In miami though Murraybwould be cheered as the crowd is much yoinger generally.
he has not broke any rules. But then again neither did Tsitsipas against him
I was watching Kyrgios play Ramos at IW and the older, country club looking woman sitting next to me says to me, "he should not be allowed to play tennis!" in response to Kyrgios' antics (hopefully just his antics).

But then again, she didn't leave!
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
If the underarm serve is considered wrong then a drop shot should be considered wrong too.
Why?

Underarm serve is like cheating your opponent when he's waiting for you to serve. Drop shot is an art and involves considerable risk to execute. The ball is coming at you with pace. You need to hide the grip, absorb the pace and get it to drop close to the net with backspin.

What's the skill with underarm? Any rec player can do that without a lot of practice. It is a prank. A few on them do and then laugh. What's next to debase?
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
An underarm serve is much harder than people make it out to be. Not to mention it’s a legitimate tactic against people who stand so far back on returns. The first time I saw it used in such an effective manner was a Karlovic-Haas match a long time ago. Haas was struggling to get serves back and stood right where the back wall was, even moving a chair to make more space for him. Dr. Ivo noticed this and decided to throw in an underarm serve for an ace. It wasn’t popular back then but with guys Kyrgios and Bublik it’s been popularized as a genuine tactic.
 

Milehigh5280

Professional
Most unwritten rules in sports are incredibly stupid. An underarm serve is a perfectly legal and legit shot to make, especially when you're opponent is standing so far behind the baseline. I really don't see how it's different than bunting against an infield that's playing deep in baseball
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
Im alcarazs fan and i liked that underarm serve, like someone said, are people gonna boo everytime somebody does a drop shot? Its just ridiculous, i dont know when people started doing that but they should shut up and enjoy, they just love to boo dont they? Negative lads
 
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EggSalad

Professional
I’m not a fan but that just me being a traditionalist. The only thing I didn’t love about Murray doing it was that it didn’t appear that Alcarez was ready to return when he hit it. But cheers to the teenager taking that in stride.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Ridiculous. Not only is it legal, but pulling it off is epic.
And anyone booing is a Bozo who obviously has no understanding of tennis rules. Never mind Andy won the point, which is the entire point of sports. Fed pointed out the obvious when asked about it in 2019:

"Underarm is definitely a tactic, I believe. Especially when guys are hugging the fence in the back. From that standpoint, you shouldn't be ashamed if you try it out. You just look silly if you miss it sometimes. Why not try it? The problem is in practice, you never really try it. When you come out in the big stage in front of a full crowd, it's tricky to pull off.”

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/federer-underhand-serve-kyrgios-dubai-2019-reaction
 

Arak

Legend
The underarm serve, while within the rules, is not how tennis is played. I believe this is one area, together with toilet breaks, where the rules need to be updated. I believe that both have been neglected by the tennis authorities exactly because of their controversial use and the negative reactions of the spectators, which add emotions to a tennis match. The people in charge probably think that’s a good thing, including the boos and jeers.
 

Arak

Legend
If the underarm serve is considered wrong then a drop shot should be considered wrong too.
That’s a good point, and in fact, both have a sneakiness element. The drop shot is so much more common though, that familiarity takes away some of the sneakiness perception. Moreover, the underarm serve is most effective when the opponent isn’t ready to receive yet, which adds to the perception of unfairness by the spectators, while the drop shot happens during a rally where opponent is supposed to be ready for all eventualities. There is a reason why some players apologise after a drop shot.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Indian wells has an older crowd who are more tradiomalists so an under arm serve is considered disrespectful. In miami though Murraybwould be cheered as the crowd is much yoinger generally.
he has not broke any rules. But then again neither did Tsitsipas against him
It depends on so many things…
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
The underarm serve, while within the rules, is not how tennis is played. I believe this is one area, together with toilet breaks, where the rules need to be updated.
I don't think the analogy is relevant. A toilet break takes 3-10 minutes and completely disrupts the rhythm of the match and destroys viewing pleasure. An underarm serve takes 1.5 seconds. Andy Murray explains perfectly why it's not disrespectful, Gael weighs in also:

 

tex123

Hall of Fame
I don't think the analogy is relevant. A toilet break takes 3-10 minutes and completely disrupts the rhythm of the match and destroys viewing pleasure. An underarm serve takes 1.5 seconds. Andy Murray explains perfectly why it's not disrespectful, Gael weighs in also:

You just make stuff up to suit your argument, don't you?

Tsitsipas stayed within the rules and took a toilet break. Murray cried and lost all respect. So did many posters here.

Murray serves underarm and takes a point. Still within the rules. It could be considered cheating in my book because it is not the norm.

And you come up with a "time" argument?
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
The underarm serve, while within the rules, is not how tennis is played. I believe this is one area, together with toilet breaks, where the rules need to be updated. I believe that both have been neglected by the tennis authorities exactly because of their controversial use and the negative reactions of the spectators, which add emotions to a tennis match. The people in charge probably think that’s a good thing, including the boos and jeers.
This ^.

Update the rulebook. I don't mind it but I still think it is "pranky" and beneath the level of elite players.

To the people saying it involves a lot of skill and comparing to drop shots - Jeez! Start playing tennis. Crappy players at my club execute underarm easily.
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
I dont see a problem with it. If we just remove everything that might hurts someones feelings, then lets get rid of body shots too.

The only thing that should be addressed is that the other player needs to be ready. You cant just serve while the other guy is still walking into position.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
This ^.

Update the rulebook. I don't mind it but I still think it is "pranky" and beneath the level of elite players.

To the people saying it involves a lot of skill and comparing to drop shots - Jeez! Start playing tennis. Crappy players at my club execute underarm easily.
I'm sure they also easily execute forehand, backhand, slice or any other shot. As such the conclusion is obvious - nothing in tennis involves skills..... :rolleyes:
 

RyanRF

Professional
The analogy to dropshots isn't valid. The underarm serve only works because the opponent doesn't think the point has started yet. They are waiting for the serve toss, which starts the point 99.99% of the time.

It's like in boxing at the start of the round when a guy reaches out to touch gloves... but it's a fake and instead he takes a big swing. Technically within the rules but not very sportsmanlike.

They should make a rule that all serves start with a toss above the head. If you toss above your head and then use a short backspin drop-serve, kudos to you.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Underarm serves have been around at least since 1989, so even traditionalists shouldn't have a problem with them. I am not a huge fan, but you have to admit it changes things up a bit.

Personally, I think allowing underarm serves (an actual strategy) is 10x better than playing lets (a stroke of luck).
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
booed? absurd. sorry but there is only one right opinion here: the underarm serve is a fun, dramatic, appeal-broadening addition to the game and should be vigorously encouraged. like, come on, who can ACTUALLY say when a player tries it, that they're like...what? aghast at the effrontery, or something? it's exciting and you know it and secretly love it, even if you don't.
 

topher

Hall of Fame
I dont see a problem with it. If we just remove everything that might hurts someones feelings, then lets get rid of body shots too.

The only thing that should be addressed is that the other player needs to be ready. You cant just serve while the other guy is still walking into position.
What do you think here, Alcaraz is clearly looking down when the ball is struck. Is that his fault or should the server make sure the opponent is looking first?
 

lidoazndiabloboi

Hall of Fame
Is there an official definition of what the "serve" must be? A serve can be done overhead, as a forehand, or underhand. Now the reason people hit it overhead, is because you get the quickest speed that way. So the only requirement of the serve is to stand behind the line, and make the ball into the service box in any way possible. You can even lob it, if your aim is that good.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
I'm sure they also easily execute forehand, backhand, slice or any other shot. As such the conclusion is obvious - nothing in tennis involves skills..... :rolleyes:
Did I say that? You must really suck at tennis if you can't even underarm a ball.
 

wangs78

Legend
The underarm serve itself is totally fine in my book. But Murray looks like he hit the shot before Alcaraz had even gotten his feet set. Nothing illegal about it as my understanding is that the returner needs to play at the pace of the server, but if the server is normally bouncing the ball for 5 seconds, then the returner may not get ready until the server has bounced the ball a couple of times, which was the case here. So I think Murray was not simply taking advantage of his opponent's position, he was also changing his own serve rhythm to mess up the returner's timing. Not sure I'm a fan of that latter part.
 

graycrait

Legend
Pro tennis is entertainment and if I have to sit through an insufferable amount of repetitive commercials I expect to be entertained.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
Go to a practice court. How do you feed the ball to your opponent to start the practice? Frickin' Underarm! The most basic thing a player is supposed to be able to do. Any rec player can do that.

Am I really having to explain this to people who compare this basic ability to the skill required to execute a dropshot? You can advance to a good level and you still won't be able to execute a good drop shot.
 

Rebel-I.N.S

Professional
I dont see a problem with it. If we just remove everything that might hurts someones feelings, then lets get rid of body shots too.

The only thing that should be addressed is that the other player needs to be ready. You cant just serve while the other guy is still walking into position.
Agree with this.
 

guanzishou

G.O.A.T.
You can advance to a good level and you still won't be able to execute a good drop shot.
When I just started playing tennis many years ago, all of my groundstrokes were slice. I frequently executed dropshots on both forehand and backhand very easily, because all of those under spin groundstrokes had developed my drop shots technique quickly.

You don't have to be advanced to be able to hit a dropshot. I was just a beginner when I started doing dropshots.
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
Like Mr. Wang said above, it mightve looked a little more wrong because Alcaraz didnt appear to be ready, but he didnt appear to be ready because he was anticipating the typical server's preparation. Credit to Alcaraz for not theatrically throwing up his arms. He accepted it as a legit tactic.
 
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Slicehand

Hall of Fame
Underarm serve it something that has appeared on the game because people were forgeting about the actual dimensions of the court, game has changed, but the courts are the same in size, maybe they think they are bashing a ball in a football stadium
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The guy who claims the higher ground over toilet breaks :-D .

Tsitsipas should have some fun facebook posts over this fall from grace.
In what conceivable way can an underarm serve (which plenty of players have used in the past including Nadal) compare to an over-extended toilet break?
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The underarm serve itself is totally fine in my book. But Murray looks like he hit the shot before Alcaraz had even gotten his feet set. Nothing illegal about it as my understanding is that the returner needs to play at the pace of the server, but if the server is normally bouncing the ball for 5 seconds, then the returner may not get ready until the server has bounced the ball a couple of times, which was the case here. So I think Murray was not simply taking advantage of his opponent's position, he was also changing his own serve rhythm to mess up the returner's timing. Not sure I'm a fan of that latter part.
Messing up an opponents's timing is what players have been doing to win matches ever since the first tennis ball was gently lobbed over the net on Wimbledon's croquet lawn. :cool:
 
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