Your point being?
Your point being?
Karlovic did it as a joke basically and Haas was also laughing IIRC.An underarm serve is much harder than people make it out to be. Not to mention it’s a legitimate tactic against people who stand so far back on returns. The first time I saw it used in such an effective manner was a Karlovic-Haas match a long time ago. Haas was struggling to get serves back and stood right where the back wall was, even moving a chair to make more space for him. Dr. Ivo noticed this and decided to throw in an underarm serve for an ace. It wasn’t popular back then but with guys Kyrgios and Bublik it’s been popularized as a genuine tactic.
Apparently for some here it is cheating to disguise your shot, you have to be totally clear to your opponent about your intentions, "I'M GONNA SERVE WIDE TO YOUR BACKHAND EXPECTING A MIDDLE COURT RETURN TO MY FOREHAND, THEN I'LL HIT A CROSS COURT ANGLE, PLEASE BE READY!!!"You have to tell your opponent where your serve is going...
Is it not possible to hit a very soft serve, that barely clears the net with regular service motion, like my serves used to be?Ridiculous. Not only is it legal, but pulling it off is epic.
It's a tough shot to pull off. One needs to have practiced it.
Hit it too hard, and it's out or you give your opponent a sitter to crush.
Hit it too soft, and it's into the net.
Is it not possible to hit a very soft serve, that barely clears the net with regular service motion, like my serves used to be?
Apparently that's the first thing players learn to do on a practice court i.e. feed the ball underarm. That's how you start your practice session. I'm just a lowly rec player and so are my compatriots at my club. We can all do underarm - you just put slice and underspin on it. It is only used when the opponent is standing far behind the baseline.It's a tough shot to pull off. One needs to have practiced it.
Hit it too hard, and it's out or you give your opponent a sitter to crush.
Hit it too soft, and it's into the net.
Stop cherry picking. Read about the incident. Anyone can google. Nadal was furious after the incident.
If it is great play, why haven't Fed, Nadal, Djoko, Waw, Delpo etc. used it? Because it is a cheap dirty trick beneath the level of elites.
Apparently for some here it is cheating to disguise your shot, you have to be totally clear to your opponent about your intentions, "I'M GONNA SERVE WIDE TO YOUR BACKHAND EXPECTING A MIDDLE COURT RETURN TO MY FOREHAND, THEN I'LL HIT A CROSS COURT ANGLE, PLEASE BE READY!!!"
And as some have said, hitting an underarm serve is easy, hitting a GOOD underarm serve is hard, it depends on your opponent being far behind the baseline and on your ability to hit it short and low bouncing, it also depends on your opponent being caught off guard, if he is expecting it it is too easy just approach the ball and pound it for a winner.
Alcaraz was ready to receive and Andy saw him getting too far behind the baseline, it was the perfect situation to do it and it was perfectly timed, there's nothing to complain about it, Alcaraz was ready and he ws expecting the whole ritual from Andy, he became unready by his own volition, once your are ready to receive you have to keep your attention the whole time on the server, if he would have done that, with his speed he would surely have gone for the ball but one thing is clear, he would alway be ready and stay ready from now on.
And comparing a legitimate tactic that puts the ball in play with a gamesmanship tactic is too childish to be taken seriously.
It's understandable that Alcaraz was not expecting it, but as soon as the server's feet are "at rest", the serve can come at any time. Returners will adjust as the serve becomes more common, and servers will have to hone their underhand serve skills to make them less obvious.What do you think here, Alcaraz is clearly looking down when the ball is struck. Is that his fault or should the server make sure the opponent is looking first?
No comparison to a dropshot whatsoever - which shouldn't have to be explained.
If the receiver is waiting for the ball toss, serve underarmIt is exactly comparable to a dropshot because that's what it literally is.
If the receiver is standing too far to the middle, serve wide.
If the receiver is standing too wide, serve up the T.
If the receiver is standing too close in, serve hard to the body.
If the receiver is standing too far back, serve a drop shot.
I know you're trying to be ironic but you nailed it rigth in the head.If the receiver is waiting for the ball toss, serve underarm![]()
So, should be illegal in tennis to play to your opponent's weaknesses?Legal but still kind of a dick move no matter how you look at it. Had it been reversed with metal hip "old man" Andy getting underarmed, Alcaraz would be even more crucified.
lol not at all what i said, but it's kind of like a 5.0 double bageling a 3.5 70 year old man by DROP shotting them lol.So, should be illegal in tennis to play to your opponent's weaknesses?
It will be much more competitive. Much like the WTA is right now. No one will dominate Grand Slams or Masters. I actually think that ATP tennis needs this to maintain interest in the game.It would be interesting if the sport is struggling to get younger viewers. Maybe the sport is dying? I wonder what it will be like when the big 3 retire.
At the end of the day, there is something that is universally celebrated called sportsmanship. A sneak serve isn’t that. One can do all sorts of tricks when the ball is in play, but not before.IT walks the fine line of serving when your opponent IS NOT READY versus not expecting it. In almost all cases it's done quickly when the opponent is NOT ready or settled. Which is why it's so effective.
It is exactly comparable to a dropshot because that's what it literally is.
If the receiver is standing too far to the middle, serve wide.
If the receiver is standing too wide, serve up the T.
If the receiver is standing too close in, serve hard to the body.
If the receiver is standing too far back, serve a drop shot.
That would certainly be legal but not at all well seen and corroborates the point here, Andy did his serve to a fully functional pro player, he didn't took advantage of anything, the only advantage was on Alcaraz who lost his focus for a second there, how is the opponent's focus something not to be exploited?lol not at all what i said, but it's kind of like a 5.0 double bageling a 3.5 70 year old man by DROP shotting them lol.
When a dropshot is executed, the ball is in play. It is coming at you like 80-90 miles an hour. When you are serving underhand, you are starting the play with a yellow ball in your hand. Do I really need to explain this?
With the underarm serve, the problem is what happens before the server hits the ball.Yes. Explain all of it.
I've never seen an 80 mph drop shot.
Play starts when the server hits the ball. As long as the receiver is ready to receive when the server starts play, what is the problem exactly?
ALL USTA players must add this to their repotoiure. It will make you improve at least 1 level or moreWhat do you think ?
MEDIA=twitter]1447314844588261376[/MEDIA]
You can see his interview at 3:00
But very few people care about WTA?It will be much more competitive. Much like the WTA is right now. No one will dominate Grand Slams or Masters. I actually think that ATP tennis needs this to maintain interest in the game.
A 34-year-old Fed doing the SABR?All I know is one thing...good, bad, right, wrong, different, indifferent...if you can't underarm serve a fit, move like lightning 18 yr old and get away with it, who the hell can ya underarm serve?![]()
But very few people care about WTA?
Did you even read the post? A drop shot is executed when the ball is in play. You have to absorb 80mph balls coming at you to execute a drop shot.Yes. Explain all of it.
I've never seen an 80 mph drop shot.
Play starts when the server hits the ball. As long as the receiver is ready to receive when the server starts play, what is the problem exactly?
some would call lost his focus = he wasn't ready, so which is it? big differenceThat would certainly be legal but not at all well seen and corroborates the point here, Andy did his serve to a fully functional pro player, he didn't took advantage of anything, the only advantage was on Alcaraz who lost his focus for a second there, how is the opponent's focus something not to be exploited?
He was ready to receive and became unready by his own volition, once you are ready to receive everything is game, you can't complain if you lose focus, is entirely on you if you start to focus late or when you see the ball toss.some would call lost his focus = he wasn't ready, so which is it? big difference
Way longer than that. Some players in the wool pants era exclusively served underhandUnderarm serves have been around at least since 1989, so even traditionalists shouldn't have a problem with them. I am not a huge fan, but you have to admit it changes things up a bit.
Personally, I think allowing underarm serves (an actual strategy) is 10x better than playing lets (a stroke of luck).
How can an underarm serve be classed as "cheating" when absolutely nothing in the rulebook says the serve must be hit overhead?Both can be classed as cheating and both can be classed as a legitimate tactic - depends on your interpretation. Plenty of players have used "over extended" toilet breaks in the past including Djokovic.
But that has nothing to do with the serve being underarm. You can hit a normal serve when the returner isn't ready. This is a different issue entirely.I mean, it's legal, but it's borderline.
It's a bit of a quick-serve, like a quick-pitch in baseball. The quick-pitch is fine if the batter is in the batter's box, and nobody has called time out.
It's not a tactic I'm too enamored of. Taking the returner by surprise as to speed and placement is absolutely part of the game, but sneaking it in when the receiver isn't really ready is borderline to me.
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How can a 8min toilet break be classed as cheating when there is absolutely nothing in the rule book that defines the length of the break?How can an underarm serve be classed as "cheating" when absolutely nothing in the rulebook says the serve must be hit overhead?
Stop please stop. Toilet break is not illegal. The rule book says so. Will the moaning and double standards stop ?STOP, just stop.. underhand is not illegal, we've established that right? so it comes down to being downright dirty because Carlos wasn’t ready.
Will those moaning about it please acknowledge that if you are not ready to receive your opponents serve 4 seconds before he HAS to serve ( failure to do so incurring a penalty ) then the onus is on the receiver if he’s made to look a bit of a mug, which incidentally would have been Murray’s fate if he’d dumped it into the net.
Please stop conflating.Stop please stop. Toilet break is not illegal. The rule book says so. Will the moaning and double standards stop ?
I would say - please stop the double standards. It stinks.Please stop conflating.
How can a 8min toilet break be classed as cheating when there is absolutely nothing in the rule book that defines the length of the break?