Evidence? Can you prove it? No.
Andy Murray booed after underarm service...
- Thread starter Frenchy-Player
- Start date
Evidence? Can you prove it? No.
Says who?
If it is the norm then why don't we see Fed, Novak, Nadal, Waw, Delpo, Cilic ... list goes on.. use it? All grand slam winners. That's because it is shady. It is classed as dirty. It is classed as cheating and disrespectful in the tennis pro world.
Same goes for toilet break. It is not the norm. It is shady. But players like Novak, Fed, Nishikori and Tsitsipas have used it to their advantage.
Both are legal. Both are designed to disrupt an opponent. Tennis is about mind games. However, the double standards on this forum is beyond belief. BTW Rulebook IS going to say something about toilet breaks very soon.
gullyfoyleisback
New User
Ok, so stop procrastinating
optic yellow
Legend
What I mean is that the act of serving is part of the gameplay of tennis while taking a toilet break is an interruption that is outside the gameplay of tennis. The tennis rules should be able to perfectly define what a legal serve is and isn't so there is no ambiguity, whereas the toilet break is hard to say anything about and therefore is forced to rely on the good faith of the players. I am curious what the rulebook going to say about toilet breaks because I don't see what it can.
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Lengthy toilet breaks may soon be thing of the past
Inordinately long toilets breaks or medical timeouts at critical moments could soon be a thing of the past in men's tennis with the ATP Tour planning to impose stricter rules, a source at the men's governing body told Reuters.
www.reuters.com
Fairhit
Hall of Fame
We all know what a legal serve is.
Pros don't use the underarm serve because it has too much potential to be returned with a winner, what would they practice a shot to use it once or twice per match and has too much potential to go wrong? The normal serve is more effective and that's why the underarm serve is seldom used and never even practiced, it is akin to practice a dink service; there's only a handful of players that use it to punish those players that hug the back fence when returning, it is a valid tactic and if there are more ways to serve that surprise the opponents, I fail to see a valid reason not to use them, like the reverse slice serve.
Pros don't use the underarm serve because it has too much potential to be returned with a winner, what would they practice a shot to use it once or twice per match and has too much potential to go wrong? The normal serve is more effective and that's why the underarm serve is seldom used and never even practiced, it is akin to practice a dink service; there's only a handful of players that use it to punish those players that hug the back fence when returning, it is a valid tactic and if there are more ways to serve that surprise the opponents, I fail to see a valid reason not to use them, like the reverse slice serve.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
That's exactly it. You can't compare the toilet breaks with the underarm serve. Is the underarm serve design to disrupt an opponent? Absolutely. But it's done within the game itself. It's not dissimilar to throwing a slice after hitting 5 topspin BHs, or hitting a drop shot, a lob, or some other unconventional shot.
The underarm serve is used to counter players standing by the back fence to return serve. Why is that return position, which is not the norm, not considered a "mind game" or "shady"?
And needless to say, the skill required to execute a shot has nothing to do with its validity. You could dink an overhead serve in, like someone who's just started playing tennis, and there would be nothing wrong with that, either.
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socalmd123
Professional
I was at that match. There were quite a few but vocal Spanish fans with flags booing Murray but most of crowd was definitely pro Murray.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
1H-Backhand
New User
I am definitely not a fan of Mr grumpy, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with an underarm serve. What is the difference between that and a drop shot?
The toilet breaks are thought of as cheating by people who do not believe that the time is being used to go to the toilet. If Tsitsipas or anyone else takes a toilet break and uses the time to go to the bathroom and then immediately come back, that is clearly not cheating, IMO. If they claim they’re taking a “toilet break” but instead just take the time to rest (or get coaching), THATS what’s cheating.
I think there is a parallel there to underhand serves! If someone serves underhand instead of overhead, IMO that’s clearly allowed. On the other hand, trying to quick serve someone - serving when they’re not ready - is cheating, because the rules say you have to wait for the receiver to be ready. And underhand serves are often used to quick serve someone.
I think there is a parallel there to underhand serves! If someone serves underhand instead of overhead, IMO that’s clearly allowed. On the other hand, trying to quick serve someone - serving when they’re not ready - is cheating, because the rules say you have to wait for the receiver to be ready. And underhand serves are often used to quick serve someone.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Serving when the receiver is not ready is a clear violation of the rules. You can try to do it with an overhead or underhand serve; the method of delivery is irrelevant here. The only question is whether or not the receiver is ready. But once they are ready, they can't become un-ready, and should expect the ball regardless of how it's served
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the method of delivery is relevant because an overhead serve routine shows the receiver that the point is starting and gives them time to get ready and also start the point. Underhand serves, on the other hand, often rely on misleading the opponent about when the point is starting, hoping to catch them not ready.
If underhand serves like that are legal, it should also be the case that anytime the server touches the ball with their racquet, it has to go in or it’s a fault. After all, normally, the way the umpire and opponent can tell when something is a “real serve” versus the player just bouncing the ball or tapping a ball over to a ball kid is the servers body language and motion. If underarm serves are okay, then obviously this is not a reliable indicator, and anytime the server touches the ball with their racquet it might be an intended serve.
fishpiefriday
Semi-Pro
lol
Enga
Hall of Fame
It don't really make sense, just because everyone doesn't do it doesn't mean it's a shady tactic.
That must mean Sabr was shady, and Federer is the shadiest of all because he's the only player in the history of the game who has done it.
The real truth of the matter is it's not effective, and it's not effective because if people expected it, it would be ineffective, so no one uses it. But since no one uses it, it's unexpected, and that makes it effective. You see?
That must mean Sabr was shady, and Federer is the shadiest of all because he's the only player in the history of the game who has done it.
The real truth of the matter is it's not effective, and it's not effective because if people expected it, it would be ineffective, so no one uses it. But since no one uses it, it's unexpected, and that makes it effective. You see?
SABR is done when the ball is coming at you like 140mph. Can you even comprehend what that's like? The ball is in play.
Underarm serve is sneaked in by the serve with a yellow ball in his hand to trick the opponent when he's not ready. The ball is not in play.
Thanks for your great insight into this debate.
Enga
Hall of Fame
Yes, I can comprehend what it's like, and it's not effective. Neither is the underarm serve. If someone can make it work, the credit goes all to them.
It has been explained many times if you care to read. A drop shot is executed when the rally ball is coming at you like 80-90 mph. The yellow ball is in play. It takes a lot of skill to change the grip at the last moment, absorb the pace and impart underspin to land close to the net.
Effectiveness depends upon the "sneakiness" of underarm serve i.e. serve underarm when they are not ready. In terms of execution, it is easy. Most club players know how to do it including me. We have a good laugh after doing it.
Enga
Hall of Fame
Sounds to me like it's nothing but a good addition to tennis then, since it will rarely ever work on a pro.
Steffi-forever
Hall of Fame
Unfair? It was just the icing of the cake, after having been in the entire match so arrogant, entitled and disrespectful. And her constant trashing of Graf in the previous year and an half. She had it coming.
Tranqville
Professional
You make a valid point. I'm just saying that the underhand serve, specifically, should not have been a reason for booing her. The media still to this day has not lost interest in that story https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ot...owd-reduced-martina-hingis-to-tears-1.4338709
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
Probably got booed by some who never got a refund for those early slam finals.
fishpiefriday
Semi-Pro
It was my reaction to the nonsense you posted. Just being honest.Thanks for your great insight into this debate.
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