Andy Murray calls for ATP Tour to create domestic abuse policy

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Fedinkum

Legend
Andy Murray calls for ATP Tour to create domestic abuse policy

For those who thinks this will go away quietly for Zverev : )

"Andy Murray says the Association of Tennis Professionals, which governs the men’s game, should take domestic abuse cases such as the one which has engulfed Alexander Zverev over the past month “extremely seriously”.

The German world No 7 – who lost to the eventual champion Daniil Medevev and the world No 1 Novak Djokovic in the ATP Tour Finals in London last week – denied on an almost daily basis claims by Olya Sharypova that he had abused her during their long relationship.

“I don’t know how long it was, but it certainly was not immediate,” Murray said of the ATP’s statement of 13 November, two weeks after Sharypova’s claims became public in the Russian media. “But I have read some stuff, and obviously tennis doesn’t have a domestic abuse policy. That is something we as a sport should be looking into, so the ATP know what to do in that situation, rather than having to think and react to it. They can be a bit more proactive in a situation like that. They need to take it extremely seriously and see what comes of it in the coming months.”

The ATP statement condemned “any form of violence or abuse”, and added: “We expect all members of the Tour to do the same, and to refrain from any conduct that is violent, abusive, or puts others at risk.” A review would only follow legal investigation and “due process”, the statement said. So far, Sharypova and Zverev have declined to seek legal advice."
 
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Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
I don't see how you make formal rules about things like this. Murry's heart may be in the right place, but I see problems trying to legislate morality in this context. Better would be to just bring abuse out in the open and make sure it is no longer tolerated. Plus this whole matter bothers me because so much is innuendo and conjecture. I have zero tolerance for men hitting women, but I also know that domestic problems can be very complicated and not easy to see or understand from the outside.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
Hear Hear! Reputations should not be besmirched by unproven allegations in social media and gossip rags. After the facts have been adjudicated in Courts of Law, the ATP should review those findings.
Exactly, Zverev should go through the legal route...if he is innocent.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
so the idea is to punish someone twice for the same thing he/she did
The "idea" is to make it less OK for a big man to beat the crap out of a much smaller woman. The bottom line is that when there is a physical fight between someone well over 200 pounds against someone much smaller and weaker, it's not a fair fight most of the time. It's not just a "woke" thing not to like seeing a woman beaten by a man, and it still happens a lot.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
I don't see how you make formal rules about things like this. Murry's heart may be in the right place, but I see problems trying to legislate morality in this context. Better would be to just bring abuse out in the open and make sure it is no longer tolerated. Plus this whole matter bothers me because so much is innuendo and conjecture. I have zero tolerance for men hitting women, but I also know that domestic problems can be very complicated and not easy to see or understand from the outside.
Stamping out domestic violence is not a morality issue. The ATP should draw a very clear line: committing domestic violence has no place on the tour. Beside, this sort of formal policy is as important to the ATP brand as to being a mean of deterrent to its members. Murray is highlighting that there are short comings of the current ATP policy.
 
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tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
The "idea" is to make it less OK for a big man to beat the crap out of a much smaller woman. The bottom line is that when there is a physical fight between someone well over 200 pounds against someone much smaller and weaker, it's not a fair fight most of the time. It's not just a "woke" thing not to like seeing a woman beaten by a man, and it still happens a lot.
This is not the ATP's role to give moral lessons to players who commit criminal offence, especially if they are totally unrelated to tennis other than the fact that it was commited by a tennis player.

Which is pretty funny if you think about it - it's like your boss cutting your salary as a lesson because you didn't pay your taxes on time lmao. All that's happening here in this thread is Cherry Boy sucking up to females. It was pretty mild at first but the guy's lost the plot.
 
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Fedinkum

Legend
Please inform us--you may win an Emmy, a Noble Prize or a Pulitzer for your contribution to knowledge.
You don't have to be a genius to know most professional organisations have codes of conduct to guide their members and it is one of the many devices they use to protect their brand.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
IF, he is innocent? In some jurisdictions, there is the presumption of innocence until PROVEN guilty.

Maybe Murray should become a barrister now that his tennis career is waning--he and Nick Kyrigos could form a firm that specializes in abuse cases and do them pro-bono.
You are obviously very eager to defend Zverev because you are moaning and bltching like a Karen. Murray did not mention any punishment or made any judgment against Zverev. Murray simply highlighted that there are short comings of the current ATP policy.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
This is not the ATP's role to give moral lessons to players who commit criminal offence, especially if they are totally unrelated to tennis other than the fact that it was commited by a tennis player.

Which is pretty funny if you think about it - it's like your boss cutting your salary as a lesson because you didn't pay your taxes on time lmao. All that's happening here in this thread is Cherry Boy sucking up to females. It was pretty mild at first but the guy's lost the plot.
Actually, committing any criminal or civil offences can often terminate an employment contract if one of the conditions of the contract stated that. In Australia, many people have lost their desk jobs when they are caught drink driving (which is a criminal offence here). This is exactly why professional bodies have Codes of Conduct - you break the code, the organisation has all the rights to cut you off to protect their brand.

You want to play ATP tennis and get paid? Don't hit women.
 
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You don't have to be a genius to know most professional organisations have codes of conduct to guide their members and it is one of the many devices they use to protect their brand.
I don't belong to any professional organizations--I'm just a working stiff--an Eric Hoffer kinda' guy. I must leave it up to PROS like yourself to keep me informed--what profession are u in? At what IQ level does one have to be to know of such matters?--are u a genius? Do u belong to Mensa or Prometheus?--which throws the best parties? A lot of people think I'm smart because they see me reading a book. What is your theory on how those scratch marks got on Sasha's neck? : E=mc2 perhaps.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Actually, committing any criminal or civil offences can often terminate an employment contract if one of the conditions of the contract stated that.
True, however the conditions are uuuusuallly related to the job that you're being assigned to.
In Australia, many people have lost their desk jobs when they are caught drink driving (which is a criminal offence here).
The question is - was this just an excuse to fire the employee to make a moral statement or was there an actual condition in the contract which stated "The employer has the right to fire the employee if he/she's caught drink driving. etc." I worked as a lawyer before going into banking a couple of years ago, dealt with labor law as well and can tell you that I never saw a single one from a couple dozen that I went through.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Murray should be permabanned from the tour

Disgusting individual
wtf Murray, why? theres an actual law for that in case you dont know
I don't understand how anyone can be disappointed or disgusted at what he said. Do you support domestic violence? I mean obviously not but how does someone wanting a policy against players who commit domestic violence equal posts here resulting in disdain for the player?

I mean you just look silly criticizing someone who's anti domestic violence.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
I don't understand how anyone ca be disappointed or disgusted at what he said. Do you support domestic violence? I mean obviously not but how does someone wanting a policy against players who commit domestic violence equal posts here resulting in disdain for the player?

I mean you just look silly criticizing someone who's anti domestic violence.
I WAS WAITING FOR THIS

yes bro I obviously support domestic volence

I mean obviously not but how does someone wanting a policy against players who commit domestic violence equal posts here resulting in disdain for the player?
BECAUSE
IT'S
NOT
THEIR
FREAKING
JOB

should I put it in bold next time?
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
This is not the ATP's role to give moral lessons to players who commit criminal offence, especially if they are totally unrelated to tennis other than the fact that it was commited by a tennis player.

Which is pretty funny if you think about it - it's like your boss cutting your salary as a lesson because you didn't pay your taxes on time lmao. All that's happening here in this thread is Cherry Boy sucking up to females. It was pretty mild at first but the guy's lost the plot.
Oh lord you didn't just compare domestic violence like shoving a woman's head into a wall and driving her to attempt suicide to "didn't pay your taxes on time".

So beyond problematic.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Oh lord you didn't just compare domestic violence like shoving a woman's head into a wall and driving her to attempt suicide to "didn't pay your taxes on time".

So beyond problematic.
No, I emphasized the idiocy of the sole concept of being punished by your employer for something that you did outside of work while you on the other hand graded which idiotic statement is more idiotic. Cherry picking at its absolute finest. You're in theme, though, praise cherry boy!
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
No, I emphasized the idiocy of the sole concept of being punished by your employer for something that you did outside of work while you on the other hand graded which idiotic statement is more idiotic. Cherry picking at its absolute finest. You're in theme, though, praise cherry boy!
What if it was murder or sexual assault? Still think it remains outside of work? I mean they're representing the organisation. You want someone who bashes women working for you and it being public knowledge? If that was my company you bet I wouldn't want them working for me.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
What if it was murder or sexual assault? Still think it remains outside of work? I mean your representing the organisation. You want someone who bashes women working for you and it being public knowledge? If that was my company you bet I wouldn't want them working for me.
Yes you would definitely go back to playing professional tennis if you murdered someone. Oh, wait, can you still compete with the best when you're 65 years old?
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Yes you would definitely go back to playing professional tennis if you murdered someone. Oh, wait, can you still compete with the best when you're 65 years old?
You didn't answer what I said so i'll give you another go.

What if it was murder or sexual assault? Still think it remains outside of work? I mean they're representing the organisation. You want someone who bashes women working for you and it being public knowledge? If that was my company you bet I wouldn't want them working for me.
I mean let's not act like we live in a world where murderers and rapists escape prison etc. Brock Turner.....
 

Clay lover

Hall of Fame
I agree that governing bodies should have codes of conduct to regulate behaviour but also believe that they should apply to ALL crimes or at least crimes of a similar nature.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
You didn't answer what I said so i'll give you another go.
if you murdered the chair umpire during a match then yeah we should definitely have a law for that, you cant murder umpires, its wrong

if I was an employer why would I care if the guy is doing his job? I dont care one bit what he does outside of working hours

actually now that I think about it, the public would be more interested in the guys matches, WIN WIN
 

Fedinkum

Legend
True, however the conditions are uuuusuallly related to the job that you're being assigned to.

The question is - was this just an excuse to fire the employee to make a moral statement or was there an actual condition in the contract which stated "The employer has the right to fire the employee if he/she's caught drink driving. etc." I worked as a lawyer before going into banking a couple of years ago, dealt with labor law as well and can tell you that I never saw a single one from a couple dozen that I went through.
As with most things with court cases, it’s rarely clear cut, I will give you that. But like I said, plenty of cases here in Australia where a criminal or civic offence is sufficient ground as causes for termination. If the employer can prove the employee's crime impacts on the business, damaging the reputation of the business. On top of that, if the Code of Conduct governing that profession specifically stated the "Not to Dos", and the player breaks that code, the governing body or the employer has more grounds to terminate the contract, if the contract make references to these codes (which they often do).

Again, this is why the ATP needs a clear stand on their policy if they want to protect their brand.
 
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Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
Okay lads so it's all well and good to be like "it's not the atp's place to be policing this" and yeah okay it probably isn't from a techincal standpoint but people who beat or otherwise abuse their partners are pretty bottom of the barrel, not the kind of people you want on the tennis tour or really in public life at all. You can call it moralising etc but there's no defending that kind of behaviour. It speaks to one's character a ton
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The difficulty is not in disagreeing with DV. The difficulty is in devising a policy for a matter that may be:

a. not even before the law

b. under investigation

c. charges laid but no legal determination

d. a legal determination

A DV policy should not kick in till c., but here we're not even up to a..
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Okay lads so it's all well and good to be like "it's not the atp's place to be policing this" and yeah okay it probably isn't from a techincal standpoint but people who beat or otherwise abuse their partners are pretty bottom of the barrel, not the kind of people you want on the tennis tour or really in public life at all. You can call it moralising etc but there's no defending that kind of behaviour. It speaks to one's character a ton
And yet some here wish to defend them and say that an employer shouldn't care if someone beats their partner or kills them or does any other crime. It's vile.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
No, I emphasized the idiocy of the sole concept of being punished by your employer for something that you did outside of work while you on the other hand graded which idiotic statement is more idiotic. Cherry picking at its absolute finest. You're in theme, though, praise cherry boy!
honestly if you're an objectively sh*t person why shouldn't you be punished with losing your job etc? now i don't know if these allegations are proven or anything but if they are, this isn't just someone having edgy political views online (some people like that have been fired and I don't necessarily agree with that), but if it's true this guy is a scumbag and a criminal. Fire him for sure, why would you want that guy at your business?
 
Okay lads so it's all well and good to be like "it's not the atp's place to be policing this" and yeah okay it probably isn't from a techincal standpoint but people who beat or otherwise abuse their partners are pretty bottom of the barrel, not the kind of people you want on the tennis tour or really in public life at all. You can call it moralising etc but there's no defending that kind of behaviour. It speaks to one's character a ton
It's all he said she said though, and will remain so as she's not pressing charges. A flimsy basis for any cancellation. Now Basilashvili for example could have been suspended if they wanted to I guess, since he's actually being tried, but there's no need with him losing every match anyway ha.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
And yet some here wish to defend them and say that an employer shouldn't care if someone beats their partner or kills them or does any other crime. It's vile.
It does make you wonder what kind of people would suggest that this is no big issue. Obviously stuff like this needs to be proven but if it's legit then I haven't a clue how you can log on and say that being fired is unfair to him or something
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
It's all he said she said though, and will remain so as she's not pressing charges. A flimsy basis for any cancellation. Now Basilashvili for example could have been suspended if they wanted to I guess, since he's actually being tried, but there's no need with him losing every match anyway ha.
Yeah figures. But the ATP is well within their rights to ensure their brand is maintained, so I support what Murray is saying.
 
honestly if you're an objectively sh*t person why shouldn't you be punished with losing your job etc? now i don't know if these allegations are proven or anything but if they are, this isn't just someone having edgy political views online (some people like that have been fired and I don't necessarily agree with that), but if it's true this guy is a scumbag and a criminal. Fire him for sure, why would you want that guy at your business?
Why would you want that guy alive at all, no? Draconian laws need to be reintroduced lol, pray for AI to take over the world and do it for the betterment of man. :}
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Stamping out domestic violence is not a morality issue. The ATP should draw a very clear line: committing domestic violence has no place on the tour. Beside, this sort of formal policy is as important to the ATP brand as to being a mean of deterrent to its members. Murray is highlighting that there are short comings of the current ATP policy.
was there any evidence released that shows that Zverev is guilty in allegations of his ex-girlfriend?

dude, let me ask you one question.
what if tomorrow someone launches some allegations at your address.
let's even say linked to a crime that actually happened.
the only problem is that there is no evidence that would link you that the crime.
will you be ready to go to jail, lose your job, lose your family, friends because someone made public allegations against you?
if the answer is yes, please keep hunting Zverev.
if the answer is no, then why a tennis pro should be punished while you would not be punished?
 
What I'd really like to know is whether Zed actually tried to smother her with a pillow in a fit of rage, as she says. If true, he's a psycho who needs treatment while off tour, no question. If false, she's scum for fabricating such a monstrous accusation.
 
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