Andy Murray on Medical Timeouts

[Fedforever]

Andy Murray on MTOs:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1071907500969115648

To sum up he has two suggestions (in case the link doesn't work for anyone):

1) If player has an MTO opponent is allowed to call out his own coach for the duration.

2) Player calling the MTO has to forfeit his next service game so the restart is always on the opponent's serve.

Personally I like the first idea, not sure about the second. Any thoughts?

@Mainad @Hitman

 

[Tshooter]

 

[Mr.Lob]

Forfeiting the next service game is ridiculous.

If your opponent walks off the court for bathroom break, or MTO, you should be able to pull your coach out of the stands and talk/practice...whatever.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Who is this Murray and why is he so famous or important?

3 majors? Pffff even Courier has more and his commentating is serious business.

 

[Terenigma]

Who is this Murray and why is he so famous or important?

3 majors? Pffff even Courier has more and his commentating is serious business.

Who are you? Why does your opinion matter? Are you important? You've not even been on this forum for more than a year so you probably don't even know anything. Even OP who posed the question has been here longer so the question is valid in comparison to you.

On topic:
I like the first idea, makes sense and evens the playing field. I don't like the second idea if it is taken during your opponents serve that you forfeit your next game but i do think it should automatically let your opponent take the game that is currently active. So to simplify what i mean, if you take a MTO during a game, your opponent wins that game regardless of the score at the time of the MTO.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Who are you? Why does your opinion matter? Are you important? You've not even been on this forum for more than a year so you probably don't even know anything. Even OP who posed the question has been here longer so the question is valid in comparison to you.

lol butthurt Murray fans everywhere

 

[MasterZeb]

First idea is horrific. Second could be trialed though.

 

[Bukmeikara]

If the second rule was active, Id say Nadal would have taken 75-80% less MTO's in his career

 

[NatF]

I'm not horribly against these but I'd need to see how they work in practice. I do much prefer #1 though.

In principle what's most important to me is less disruption of the natural course of the match, in some cases where there are legitimate injury concerns then doubly penalising someone for being injured seems a bit much - as is the case with #2. So yeah on thinking about it more, that's a no from me on #2.

 

[moonballs]

I like the first proposal. Andy is genius.

 

[MRfStop]

#liarliarpantsonfire

 

[oldmanfan]

MTOs as it currently stands is a disadvantage to the fitter player, which is ridiculous (i.e. fitter so didn't take a time-out, but rhythm was disrupted by less fit player).

Andy's suggestions aren't bad, but I'd like to see:

1) scrap current MTO rules, but allow EVERY player to have 'ONE (1)' time-out per match, for ANY reason, just like other ports like basketball, football, soccer.

OR

2) NO bathroom breaks during sets (if an exception HAS to be made for special reasons, then the opponent gets 2pts awarded (half a game)). There should always be a penalty for delay-of-game. Basketball has it, no? If using current MTO rules, then yes, make the MTO-user lose a game to the opponent and starts serving right after the MTO. This is professional tennis, not a game between friends for laughs. Being fit is part of the game and if you need a MTO, then the opponent should get something from it, for being fitter (i.e. ready to compete).

 

[mike danny]

Can someone explain no.2 to me?

 

[oldmanfan]

Can someone explain no.2 to me?

Andy is suggesting that taking an MTO (for any reason) should result in an automatic game penalty against the MTO-taker (and MTO-taker serves right after). Harsh, but I agree with Andy, and it will curtail 'dubious' MTOs bc the penalty is easily felt.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Andy is suggesting that taking an MTO (for any reason) should result in an automatic game penalty against the MTO-taker (and MTO-taker serves right after). Harsh, but I agree with Andy, and it will curtail 'dubious' MTOs bc the penalty is easily felt.

I agree with this. I also think the ATP should ban any trainer coming out to "massage" a player's legs just because they're fatigued. Nadal did three times during the 2009 AO while Fred Stolle railed, "why is the chair allowing this!?" I'm not knocking Rafa here, I'm knocking Pascal Maria, who said nothing until the third time the trainer was on court during another changeover.

I don't quite understand Andy's complaint about going off court to use the toilet. I've never seen any player do this unless it was at the end of a set. Raonic did this and took TEN MINUTES to change his clothes 2 years ago at Wimbledon. He should have been penalized at least a game for that BS.

 

[mike danny]

Andy is suggesting that taking an MTO (for any reason) should result in an automatic game penalty against the MTO-taker (and MTO-taker serves right after). Harsh, but I agree with Andy, and it will curtail 'dubious' MTOs bc the penalty is easily felt.

So if player X leads 2-1 and player Y takes an MTO, then player X will go up 3-1?

 

[Terenigma]

So if player X leads 2-1 and player Y takes an MTO, then player X will go up 3-1?

The original idea was a bit more harsh than that. He's saying if X was leading 2-1 and serving for 3-1 and the opponent took a MTO, they forfeit the next game of theirs. Meaning you would not only go up 3-1, you would go up 4-1. I think it's too harsh, i think it should be simplified to if you take a MTO in the middle of a game, you lose the game. Simple and effective.

 

[oldmanfan]

So if player X leads 2-1 and player Y takes an MTO, then player X will go up 3-1?

Correct. And Player Y will serve when play resumes.

I agree with this. I also think the ATP should ban any trainer coming out to "massage" a player's legs just because they're fatigued. Nadal did three times during the 2009 AO while Fred Stolle railed, "why is the chair allowing this!?" I'm not knocking Rafa here, I'm knocking Pascal Maria, who said nothing until the third time the trainer was on court during another changeover.

I don't quite understand Andy's complaint about going off court to use the toilet. I've never seen any player do this unless it was at the end of a set. Raonic did this and took TEN MINUTES to change his clothes 2 years ago at Wimbledon. He should have been penalized at least a game for that BS.

This happened when Nadal trolled Fedr at IW12. Fedr was up two break, was broken serving for the match the first time at 5-2. Meaning, Nadal took one break back so it's 3-5, then held to take it 4-5, THEN Nadal had the nerve to take a bathroom break. And the umpire F'd up royally for allowing it, but it was still terrible sportsmanship from Nadal.

At 1:37:13 in clip:

 

[mike danny]

The original idea was a bit more harsh than that. He's saying if X was leading 2-1 and serving for 3-1 and the opponent took a MTO, they forfeit the next game of theirs. Meaning you would not only go up 3-1, you would go up 4-1. I think it's too harsh, i think it should be simplified to if you take a MTO in the middle of a game, you lose the game. Simple and effective.

Well, at least in that case, we would know that the MTOs are genuine.

 

[Terenigma]

This happened when Nadal trolled Fedr at IW12. Fedr was up two break, was broken serving for the match the first time at 5-2. Meaning, Nadal took one break back so it's 3-5, then held to take it 4-5, THEN Nadal had the nerve to take a bathroom break. And the umpire F'd up royally for allowing it, but it was still terrible sportsmanship from Nadal.
]

I remember this and it still amazes me that Nadal is so well liked after so much evidence of his gamesmanship. Maybe it's simply who he plays that is why it doesn't get brought up? Like when he took the long MTO against Wawrinka at the Australian open and he's had several minor ones against Djokovic and i even remember him shoulder bumping Rosol at Wimbledon one year during the changeover because the latter was playing well. It's one of the main reasons i cannot stand Nadal and his devoted fans who overlook it.

We're at the tail end of the careers of a lot of these players now tho so these changes probably won't be needed. The next gen get injured and spend weeks/months out. They don't really do it for gamesmanship, they do it because they are lazy and can't be bothered to be a great tennis player lol

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Andy Murray on MTOs:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1071907500969115648

To sum up he has two suggestions (in case the link doesn't work for anyone):

1) If player has an MTO opponent is allowed to call out his own coach for the duration.

2) Player calling the MTO has to forfeit his next service game so the restart is always on the opponent's serve.

Personally I like the first idea, not sure about the second. Any thoughts?

@Mainad @Hitman

I am not comfortable with the first option. The second one though can hold some merit, but I don't think I would take a game from them. I think a two point penalty, so starting the next service game at 0-30 sounds more reasonable to me.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

#2 has been suggested many times when the Nadal was raging.

It is funny how the tennis authorities waited/are waiting for the biggest gamesman in tennis to become irrelevant in order to start putting decent measures in place.

Better late than never, and #2 should be applied in one form or another.

 

[Mainad]

Andy Murray on MTOs:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1071907500969115648

To sum up he has two suggestions (in case the link doesn't work for anyone):

1) If player has an MTO opponent is allowed to call out his own coach for the duration.

2) Player calling the MTO has to forfeit his next service game so the restart is always on the opponent's serve.

Personally I like the first idea, not sure about the second. Any thoughts?

@Mainad @Hitman

I like the 2nd proposal. I've already said that if a player wants to take a medical timeout they should only be allowed to do so before their own service game and not before their opponent's.

 

[StefanosWillSaveTheWorld]

Andy had a few glasses of wine last night.

number one is ridiculous because there are plenty of genuine medical timeouts. Just because a player is suffering with a blister doesn't mean his opponents coach should be able to come out and talk tactics. thats absurd.

Number 2 makes perfect sense! a player should only be able to call med timeout before his or her own service game. or in between sets.

 

[StefanosWillSaveTheWorld]

The toilet break, however, should be outlawed during a set. I have been playing tennis a long time and have never needed to genuinely use the bathroom during a match. your sweating, adrenaline is flowing, etc. if it is In between sets then ok fine.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Would Federer have won 2017 AO without taking couple of MTOs and toilet breaks at the crucial stages of some matches in that tournament!? I don't think so. Andy is right... We should prevent things like that in the future.

 

[Winners or Errors]

I like number 1, because the main reason for (and/or effect of) MTO's seems to be to break rhythm, and bringing out a coach to hit and or discuss strategies would help keep the fitter player focused so he doesn't go into the inevitable lull that always seems to follow. I think number 2 is too harsh and a bit unfair if there is a legitimate MTO.

 

[jm1980]

First suggestion is okay

Second suggestion is terrible, specially if the MTO is actually legitimate and not just tactical

 

[Mainad]

First suggestion is okay

Second suggestion is terrible, specially if the MTO is actually legitimate and not just tactical

IMO if the player's request is so urgent that it cannot wait until their own service game, then they should just retire from the match. Chances are that, if it is so serious that they cannot wait, they probably wouldn't be able to resume anyway. Sorry if that sounds harsh but that's the only way I can see to avoid tactical use of the MTO which puts the opponent at a disadvantage. You may note that my take on this is even more severe than Murray's.

 

[Plamen1234]

Would Federer have won 2017 AO without taking couple of MTOs and toilet breaks at the crucial stages of some matches in that tournament!? I don't think so. Andy is right... We should prevent things like that in the future.

Your lack of self- awareness is just amazing.You are fan of the guy who is the king of taking MTO.

 

[Deleted member 742196]

Pffft

Combine dope testing with loo breaks for greater efficiency. If the player can’t produce a sample, loss of game. Two birds, one stone.

Alternatively, install Japanese smart toilets and throw up advanced stats on the jumbotron.

How many cc’s did Nadal really piddle at the end of Set 3? What was the mercury content of Fed’s swag? Is Djokovic sneaking gluten behind Vadja’s back?

Admit it.

GOAT threads need this kind of data.

We’ve reached that point.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Andy Murray on MTOs:

The first idea is not good because it would be a trojan horse to getting coaches on the court all the time once TV decided it loved it and started forcing microphones/cameras into the mix.

The second idea has something there but it needs a tweak. The MTO player should forfeit the next game and their opponent should be able to choose who starts serving. Some players would prefer to receive after a break while others would prefer to serve. Let them decide.

One thing I suggested years ago on account of Nadal routinely taking MTOs right after being broken, or when opponents were about to serve for a set would be to make it score-dependent. For example, if either player had at least 4 games in a set then the MTO player loses the next game. This would stop tactical MTOs in their tracks, even if it did cause the penalty to be much worse at critical times of matches which would have a negative impact on the spectacle.

Some balance should be found though, even if it was allowing the opponent to decide to change the service order. Forever, until Nadal, it was understood that you took MTOs/bathroom breaks before your own serve only (or in a set-break). Even making this a rule would reduce the sort of abuse we saw multiple times from Nadal.

 

[Red Rick]

I agree with this. I also think the ATP should ban any trainer coming out to "massage" a player's legs just because they're fatigued. Nadal did three times during the 2009 AO while Fred Stolle railed, "why is the chair allowing this!?" I'm not knocking Rafa here, I'm knocking Pascal Maria, who said nothing until the third time the trainer was on court during another changeover.

I don't quite understand Andy's complaint about going off court to use the toilet. I've never seen any player do this unless it was at the end of a set. Raonic did this and took TEN MINUTES to change his clothes 2 years ago at Wimbledon. He should have been penalized at least a game for that BS.

Delpo did the same vs Kyrgios in Cinci. Took 9 minutes. Kyrgios proceeded to be Kyrgios and immediately tanked it all away

 

[Tennis_Hands]

First suggestion is okay

Second suggestion is terrible, specially if the MTO is actually legitimate and not just tactical

The idea is that the help comes at a price.

 

[Beacon Hill]

MTOs as it currently stands is a disadvantage to the fitter player, which is ridiculous (i.e. fitter so didn't take a time-out, but rhythm was disrupted by less fit player).

Andy's suggestions aren't bad, but I'd like to see:

1) scrap current MTO rules, but allow EVERY player to have 'ONE (1)' time-out per match, for ANY reason, just like other ports like basketball, football, soccer.

OR

2) NO bathroom breaks during sets (if an exception HAS to be made for special reasons, then the opponent gets 2pts awarded (half a game)). There should always be a penalty for delay-of-game. Basketball has it, no? If using current MTO rules, then yes, make the MTO-user lose a game to the opponent and starts serving right after the MTO. This is professional tennis, not a game between friends for laughs. Being fit is part of the game and if you need a MTO, then the opponent should get something from it, for being fitter (i.e. ready to compete).

I agree that a player should be able to take a limited number of TOs for any reason. In the NBA, they used to have injury timeouts, and it was a joke because a player had to grab a limb and pretend to be injured for the team to get a TO. They abolished that. If a tennis player could take one at any time, there would be no second guessing anything. Was the player really hurt? Was it tactical? It wouldn't matter. It would be good for both players. But the TO would have to be between games, or you'd lose the game that was being played. And no more 15 minutes for medical TOs. Maybe one 90 second TO, and one 5 minute TO in a match, but never could the 5 minute one be taken before what could be a match-deciding game. I'd love to see a player call a 90 second TO before a player was to serve it out. Like in basketball when a TO is called before important free throws. It would slow it down at the end and add excitement, but not drag things out forever like in the NFL.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

The first idea is not good because it would be a trojan horse to getting coaches on the court all the time once TV decided it loved it and started forcing microphones/cameras into the mix.

The second idea has something there but it needs a tweak. The MTO player should forfeit the next game and their opponent should be able to choose who starts serving. Some players would prefer to receive after a break while others would prefer to serve. Let them decide.

One thing I suggested years ago on account of Nadal routinely taking MTOs right after being broken, or when opponents were about to serve for a set would be to make it score-dependent. For example, if either player had at least 4 games in a set then the MTO player loses the next game. This would stop tactical MTOs in their tracks, even if it did cause the penalty to be much worse at critical times of matches which would have a negative impact on the spectacle.

Some balance should be found though, even if it was allowing the opponent to decide to change the service order. Forever, until Nadal, it was understood that you took MTOs/bathroom breaks before your own serve only (or in a set-break). Even making this a rule would reduce the sort of abuse we saw multiple times from Nadal.

I don’t follow.

How would the potential love of the TV for coaching drama force more MTOs?

 

[Tshooter]

... Raonic did this and took TEN MINUTES to change his clothes 2 years ago at Wimbledon...

 

[Bobby Jr]

I don’t follow.

How would the potential love of the TV for coaching drama force more MTOs?

It wouldn't. It would be a trojan horse for introducing coaching during matches per se all the time. Once the TV networks see - via Andy's MTO idea - what a cool little additional feature it is for them from a TV spectacle point of view they will push to get it introduced everywhere all the time. Hence trojan horse/foot-in-the-door comment.

I have no doubt it would add to the TV spectacle but I am against it from a tennis point of view. Tennis has, and should always be, about the player having to navigate the matches themselves without outside coaching. And giving TV networks any idea that they can have a say in the rules of tennis is a really bad idea - as shown in many other sports where TV/sponsor interests have meddled in the format/rules.