Andy Murray withdraws from Brisbane, considers hip surgery

Tennis_Hands said:
?

:cool:
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Sunken cost fallacy means that people are likely to double down on a mistake instead of cutting losses. Classic example is you go to a movie and it's awful but you stick to the end because you paid for the tickets already. It's a psychological need to make the cost worth it somehow, even though you don't really want to watch the movie.

In this case, Andy made a mistake in not doing surgery 6 months ago, and you're saying

Tennis_Hands said:
If it is a 1st round defeat then so be it, but if he doesn't even try for at least the AO that makes his prior decisions even more disastrous
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So you're saying that playing AO will make his prior mistake "worth it". But it's not a good idea to play AO, if he wants to get healthy he needs to swallow the previous costs and have the surgery ASAP.

(All this assuming that surgery is in fact a viable option.)
 
EloQuent said:
Sunken cost fallacy means that people are likely to double down on a mistake instead of cutting losses. Classic example is you go to a movie and it's awful but you stick to the end because you paid for the tickets already. It's a psychological need to make the cost worth it somehow, even though you don't really want to watch the movie.

In this case, Andy made a mistake in not doing surgery 6 months ago, and you're saying



So you're saying that playing AO will make his prior mistake "worth it". But it's not a good idea to play AO, if he wants to get healthy he needs to swallow the previous costs and have the surgery ASAP.

(All this assuming that surgery is in fact a viable option.)
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I am saying that with or without playing the AO the only right decision is surgery.

In that light if he doesn't at least try to play AO then his previous decision is even worse.

8-)
 
tennis_pro said:
I think there's no other option to be honest, his movement looks absolutely horrible at the moment.
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There's a Scottish sport which doesn't take a whole lot of movement that he can play instead. In fact, I know someone with bone spurs who's played it their whole life and it's never hampered them.
 
Tennis_Hands said:
I am saying that with or without playing the AO the only right decision is surgery.

In that light if he doesn't at least try to play AO then his previous decision is even worse.

:cool:
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The previous decision cannot get worse, is the point. nor can it get better. The months he tried to rest up and avoid surgery aren't coming back. He isn't well enough to play now.
 
EloQuent said:
The previous decision cannot get worse, is the point. nor can it get better. The months he tried to rest up and avoid surgery aren't coming back. He isn't well enough to play now.
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If he plays and advances in the tournament even for round or two clearly it can get worse by not playing (if he could, but chose not to).

Whether he plays or not is now irrelevant for what he needs to do, so he might as well try.

That will give him the peace of mind that he tried everything he could and it didn't work.

Unless you are subscribing to the idea that a player should play a tournament only when he feels that he is 100 % ready for it, it makes sense for him to try to be competitive and see how far it will take him.

Giving up without even trying till the last minute can be fairly destructive for his mental state, given what lays ahead.

8-)
 
he should just see what surgery he needs and hope to gently make his way back on tour maybe by August's hardcourt swing.

if he cannot even start one match after 6 months rehab then whatever he has tried is clearly not going to work.
 
Meles said:
The hip pretty much cements in my mind that Murray's promise never was fulfilled all these years due to back and now hip injuries. Murray before his prime did this to the GOAT:
11/2009 SF Indian Wells Masters Hard Andy Murray Roger Federer 6-3 4-6 6-1 2.25 - 1.74
2/2009 SF Doha Hard Andy Murray Roger Federer 6-7(6) 6-2 6-2 2.05 - 1.87
45/2008 RR B Tennis Masters Cup Hard Andy Murray Roger Federer 4-6 7-6(3) 7-5 2.20 - 1.65
42/2008 SF Madrid Masters Hard Andy Murray Roger Federer 3-6 6-3 7-5 3.55 - 1.36
35/2008 F US Open Hard Roger Federer Andy Murray 6-2 7-5 6-2 1.54 - 2.75
10/2008 R32 Dubai Hard Andy Murray Roger Federer 6-7(6) 6-3 6-4 4.20 - 1.20
33/2006 R32 Cincinnati Masters Hard Andy Murray Roger Federer 7-5 6-4 12.00 - 1.03
39/2005 F Bangkok Hard Roger Federer Andy Murray 6-3 7-5 1.04 - 19.50

6-2 against prime Fed; that was Andy Murray and why he got the Big 4 moniker from the press all those years ago.
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That's something some of the skeptics about the term 'Big 4' need to be reminded of now and again! :cool:
 
Never been a fan of Murray’s game but I have to admit he seems like an absolutely great person.

His post was so heartfelt and as someone who also loves the game I can’t help but feel sympathy for the guy.

As someone who has some medics in my family I know that hips injurys are never good but never say never.
 
fedtennisphan said:
No, the big four moniker for Andy Murray was wishful thinking and that 6-2 record against Fed is overrated luckily the non-prime Federer set the record straight.
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Can you think of any other active player other than Nadal and Djokovic who chalked up a H2H against Federer like that?
 
Tennis_Hands said:
If he plays and advances in the tournament even for round or two clearly it can get worse by not playing (if he could, but chose not to).

Whether he plays or not is now irrelevant for what he needs to do, so he might as well try.

That will give him the peace of mind that he tried everything he could and it didn't work.

Unless you are subscribing to the idea that a player should play a tournament only when he feels that he is 100 % ready for it, it makes sense for him to try to be competitive and see how far it will take him.

Giving up without even trying till the last minute can be fairly destructive for his mental state, given what lays ahead.

:cool:
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Okay, fair enough, but still doesn't have anything to do with previous decisions. I think he saw in expo that he wasn't ready. Also, I'm no medical expert but playing hurt could damage it even more and surgery isn't magic, the worse it is the less it can help.
 
EloQuent said:
Okay, fair enough, but still doesn't have anything to do with previous decisions. I think he saw in expo that he wasn't ready. Also, I'm no medical expert but playing hurt could damage it even more and surgery isn't magic, the worse it is the less it can help.
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It has, because people are not robots and "what ifs" could be his constant companions in what I imagine would be a fairly difficult part of his career.

Of course, he needs to take care that something even worse doesn't happen, but he knows his body and can sense if the things are getting dangerous.

Anyways, no amount of talking on our part will yield an answer as to what he would do. I just gave my sincere opinion why he should try to play.

8-)
 
Mainad said:
Can you think of any other active player other than Nadal and Djokovic who chalked up a H2H against Federer like that?
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Uhhh...Hewitt? I mean, if we're doing the thing where we ignore certain stretches of time? 7-2 at the start of their rivalry. Better than Murray's span, if seven is still a bigger number than six.
 
Shank Volley said:
Uhhh...Hewitt? I mean, if we're doing the thing where we ignore certain stretches of time? 7-2 at the start of their rivalry. Better than Murray's span, if seven is still a bigger number than six.
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I did say active players. I'm well aware there are probably quite a few players who notched up impressive H2H s against Federer before he started to win Slams.
 
Mainad said:
I did say active players. I'm well aware there are probably quite a few players who notched up impressive H2H s against Federer before he started to win Slams.
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Ah, but Hewitt is currently active. For the next few weeks at least, until his next first round loss. :p
 
fedtennisphan said:
No, the big four moniker for Andy Murray was wishful thinking and that 6-2 record against Fed is overrated luckily the non-prime Federer set the record straight.
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Hmmm. Murray really was quite something for much of 2009 and got to #2 ranking. Call it the Muzziah mystique, but looking back it is clear he was the most hampered by injury unless you want to count Novak's gluten intolerance an injury....

Murray's game and body did not hold up, so we're left to ponder the wonders of the Muzziah and whether he'll rise again.
sbowing_100-106.gif
 
More speculation on Murray

Andy Murray has enjoyed a stellar career, but now he should consider retirement
2 JANUARY 2018 • 5:55PM
Andy Murray is struggling with a chronic hip injury CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
The rawness of Andy Murray, laid bare in those Centre Court tears with Sue Barker or in his savage mid-match chuntering about all the injustices of the universe, has shown itself once more. His latest Instagram screed, fleshing out the effects of a stubborn hip injury with words such as “demoralising”, “hurting inside”, and even including a picture of himself as a little boy, read less like a routine medical update than a cry for help. As a psychiatrist once said of Basil Fawlty: “There’s enough material here for an entire conference.”

This is no longer a fork in the road for Murray but potentially the end of the line. Hip trouble for tennis players is not just a problem that vanishes with scrupulous convalescence. Just ask Magnus Norman,..............................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2...as-enjoyed-stellar-career-time-has-come-quit/
 
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Red Rick said:
None of them are active on the singles Tour.
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Just pointing out how using wins against Federer is a rather flawed measuring stick. There was a period where Berdych chalked up a very good percentage against Federer as well going 5-3 from 2010 to 2013 IIRC.

It's Murray's achievements that put him firmly above every other player in this era - they also put him well sort of Fedalovic.
 
Mainad said:
I did say active players. I'm well aware there are probably quite a few players who notched up impressive H2H s against Federer before he started to win Slams.
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Federer had a slam under his belt at the time. Mainad knows everything, huh? :rolleyes:
 
Shank Volley said:
Huh? You doubt that Murray could win a couple slams over 30 when players like McEnroe, Wilander, Lendl, Becker and Edberg couldn't even win one?
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Injuries would have done Murray in much earlier in other eras. It's only taken this long because of the advancements in medical technology.
 
What I don't understand is whether Murray has actually sort medical advice. How can Murray consider surgery on his own? No one goes to a surgeon and say they would like surgery; It would be for the specialists to decide whether surgery would be beneficial for that particular ailment or not.
 
clayqueen said:
What I don't understand is whether Murray has actually sort medical advice. How can Murray consider surgery on his own? No one goes to a surgeon and say they would like surgery; It would be for the specialists to decide whether surgery would be beneficial for that particular ailment or not.
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I certainly hope Murray doesn't do surgery on his own, there are surgeons for that.
 
EloQuent said:
I certainly hope Murray doesn't do surgery on his own, there are surgeons for that.
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Did you see the word 'consider'?

This is what I said: "How can Murray consider surgery on his own?"

The title of the thread is:
Andy Murray withdraws from Brisbane, considers hip surgery

Normally, one would go and see a specialist who would be the one to decide what treatment is necessary. Murray can't go to a surgeon and say he'd like surgery on his hips.
 
Mainad said:
I did say active players. I'm well aware there are probably quite a few players who notched up impressive H2H s against Federer before he started to win Slams.
Click to expand...

Technically Hewitt is active as he is competing in Brisbane and the Australian Open
 
I feel really sorry for Murray. The guy really wants to compete, but his body is constraining him.

But it was only a matter of time until his grueling style would catch up to him. He realistically could not play the same game forever without punishing his body in the process.

It's a shame that Murray never changed his grinding style. He was actually more aggressive in his earlier years, but chose to pursue grinding instead. This style brought him success, but it eventually came with a price.

I don't see him playing at top 5 level again, but if his love for the game is as big as he claims, then I would still say he should return, since being top 20 is still not too shabby as I can see Murray playing at that level for a few more years.
 
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clayqueen said:
Did you see the word 'consider'?

This is what I said: "How can Murray consider surgery on his own?"

The title of the thread is:
Andy Murray withdraws from Brisbane, considers hip surgery

Normally, one would go and see a specialist who would be the one to decide what treatment is necessary. Murray can't go to a surgeon and say he'd like surgery on his hips.
Click to expand...

learn to take a joke sheesh
 
Novak Djokovic :

“Andy, thank you for genuinely sharing your thoughts and emotions with everyone,” Djokovic wrote.

“I can imagine how bad it feels.

“We all send you support and strength to get through [sic] this tough circumstances. God Bless.”
 
Mainad said:
2016 Murray would certainly have been competitive. Not so any version since, of course.



We're happy with his record of course but we still want to see more and most of us think he would have been capable of a bit more. 30 is too young to end your tennis career these days with so many 30 plusses still active and competitive. There''s no way this isn't an unforeseen shock of the highest order!
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Murray has achieved all that he needed to achieve. He is the best 3 slam champion, he is the best British tennis player ever, he won not one, but 2 Wimb titles after a British drought of 77 years, he also became no.1, which is the biggest thing that was missing from his resume and he won the WTF too, which is something that ATG like Wilander and Nadal have failed to do.

Right now, as long as Murray is still capable of performing at top 20 level, you should enjoy his presence. :)
 
clayqueen said:
More speculation on Murray

Andy Murray has enjoyed a stellar career, but now he should consider retirement
2 JANUARY 2018 • 5:55PM
Andy Murray is struggling with a chronic hip injury CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
The rawness of Andy Murray, laid bare in those Centre Court tears with Sue Barker or in his savage mid-match chuntering about all the injustices of the universe, has shown itself once more. His latest Instagram screed, fleshing out the effects of a stubborn hip injury with words such as “demoralising”, “hurting inside”, and even including a picture of himself as a little boy, read less like a routine medical update than a cry for help. As a psychiatrist once said of Basil Fawlty: “There’s enough material here for an entire conference.”

This is no longer a fork in the road for Murray but potentially the end of the line. Hip trouble for tennis players is not just a problem that vanishes with scrupulous convalescence. Just ask Magnus Norman,..............................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2...as-enjoyed-stellar-career-time-has-come-quit/
Click to expand...

He may well be right in the end but I don't want to hear it from HIM! :rolleyes:
 
mike danny said:
Murray has achieved all that he needed to achieve. He is the best 3 slam champion, he is the best British tennis player ever, he won not one, but 2 Wimb titles after a British drought of 77 years, he also became no.1, which is the biggest thing that was missing from his resume and he won the WTF too, which is something that ATG like Wilander and Nadal have failed to do.

Right now, as long as Murray is still capable of performing at top 20 level, you should enjoy his presence. :)
Click to expand...

Can't be the best British player ever. Fred Perry was way more successful then Andy.
 
clayqueen said:
What I don't understand is whether Murray has actually sort medical advice. How can Murray consider surgery on his own? No one goes to a surgeon and say they would like surgery; It would be for the specialists to decide whether surgery would be beneficial for that particular ailment or not.
Click to expand...

He has sought advice from a number of medical sources but apparently no consensus from them on whether surgery would be the best option or not.
 
sad news.

one has to think that this all started when Murray decided to have back surgery after 2012, that many including his coach at the time Lendl thought was unnecessary. his movement was never the same after that and perhaps other parts of his body was compensating more.

at least Murray did what it took to make it to #1 and finally reach the pinnacle of the other Big 4 regarding that stat, which I feel is very important to Murray's legacy.
 
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