Angle of racquet to get more topspin

[PurpleOrange]

I'm flat hitter with dense pattern racquet but looking for adding more topspin.

Fundamental and must mechanism should be swing from under ball to upright through path.

Question is, do you maintain racquet face vertical, or close racquet angle to get more topspin?

 

[Shroud]

I'm flat hitter with dense pattern racquet but looking for adding more topspin.

Fundamental and must mechanism should be swing from under ball to upright through path.

Question is, do you maintain racquet face vertical, or close racquet angle to get more topspin?

close

 

[Dragy]

Question is, do you maintain racquet face vertical, or close racquet angle to get more topspin?

Try to hit it as it feels, from under the ball with full high follow-through. Without short-cutting it. If the ball arcs well and dips within the line — you are good. If the ball goes high with lack of spin — see how you can adjust RF to be more closed.

Technically speaking, it’s expected to be somewhat closed. But we don’t know how flat or “low RPM topspin” you actually hit, is your RF really vertical or slightly closed or slightly open right now. So no reason to say how much you need to close it just from what you asked.

 

[PurpleOrange]

Try to hit it as it feels, from under the ball with full high follow-through. Without short-cutting it. If the ball arcs well and dips within the line — you are good. If the ball goes high with lack of spin — see how you can adjust RF to be more closed.

Technically speaking, it’s expected to be somewhat closed. But we don’t know how flat or “low RPM topspin” you actually hit, is your RF really vertical or slightly closed or slightly open right now. So no reason to say how much you need to close it just from what you asked.

I should record video how much my FH closed.
I have semi western so I assume my forehand should close abit but I feel my ball lacks topspin(not that I hit net often but my target height is height of racket over net).

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I should record video how much my FH closed.
I have semi western so I assume my forehand should close abit but I feel my ball lacks topspin(not that I hit net often but my target height is height of racket over net).

Perhaps you need a steeper swingpath. How closed your racquet needs to be is dependent on swingthpath (angle) and intent.

 

[Dragy]

I should record video how much my FH closed.
I have semi western so I assume my forehand should close abit but I feel my ball lacks topspin(not that I hit net often but my target height is height of racket over net).

Start with trying to hit higher via getting more under the ball. See how it goes.

Also try to think in terms of shape, not topspin. “Lacks topspin” means ball flies long unless you hit softer. “Lacks shape” is different and more resonating with what you describe.

 

[Icsa]

The angle of the racquet is vertical or slightly closed at contact. What matters more for spin is swinging low to high. Here are some examples: https://tennisgate.com/comparing-forehands-with-swing-path-animation/

 

[Curious]

What matters more for spin is swinging low to high.

Exactly. That’s probably the only thing that we can focus on. Your body should be able to figure out automatically that you need to go under the ball first to be able to do that.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I'm flat hitter with dense pattern racquet but looking for adding more topspin.

Fundamental and must mechanism should be swing from under ball to upright through path.

Question is, do you maintain racquet face vertical, or close racquet angle to get more topspin?

Racket Path Plus Racket Face Closed Tilt

The closed racket face can be observed from the side camera view. TennisSpeed has some of the best displays of the closed racket face tilt on the internet.

TennisSpeed Research: May 2011

tennisspeedresearch.blogspot.com

Somewhere TennisSpeed has a short video of their technique for applying the lines. Please post if you find.

The video analysis application Kinovea can apply these lines to videos. Kinovea has many capabilities and is a free, open source application. Applying a millisecond time to each frame is my favorite Kinovea capability.

TennisSpeed application to Djokovic & Federer. Late in this article the racket face tilts are shown.

TennisSpeed Research

tennisspeedresearch.blogspot.com

Look at 10 forehand drives and backhand drives from the ATP. Get the answer by looking for yourself.

Do-It-Yourself Stats -
Estimates of Racket Tilt at Impact

Some of these videos are lower frame rates as can be seen from how far the incoming ball travels between frames before it is struck. To make sure you do not estimate racket tilt AFTER impacts, track the ball coming in. The ball moves the same distance between frames BEFORE it is struck. We want the racket tilt frame BEFORE impact and closest to the racket only.

AFTER impact the racket face may have been turned by the collision.

Examples, what to record
Rublev 4:35 Closed
Federer 5:11 Neutral (not much open or closed)
Alcarez 3:33 Open
...............

Pick players randomly or every 3rd player, etc. to get to 10 different random players, good camera angle to see tilt, and identify player and give the Youtube times shown at impact.

Forehand Drive Compilation, avoid motion blur that might matter to tilt estimate.

To single frame on Youtube use the period & comma keys. Go full screen. Single frame for estimates.

Playback speed option 0.25x is good to watch especially for the slowest motion videos.

Post your results or not. Try to determine what is true about the tilt on the racket face at impact for the best ATP players.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

The angle of the racquet is vertical or slightly closed at contact. What matters more for spin is swinging low to high. Here are some examples: https://tennisgate.com/comparing-forehands-with-swing-path-animation/

Great pics!

Let's assume that we are discussing bread and butter neutral rally ~waist-high topspin forehands.

Note that Fed's swing path is not particularly low to high. Not at all.
Want more topspin? Focus on CLOSING the racket face more at the bottom of the backswing.
See second pic,where Fed has it about halfway closed and Murray pic with face completely closed.
According to Serve Doc, closing the face is the key to topspin. Not really clear WHY closing it generates more topspin, but that is what Serve Doc says.

 

[Chas Tennis]

The angle of the racquet is vertical or slightly closed at contact. What matters more for spin is swinging low to high. Here are some examples: https://tennisgate.com/comparing-forehands-with-swing-path-animation/

Have you looked at a number of ATP forehand drives to see the percentage of the racket faces that are vertical just before impact? What angle do you consider "slightly" closed?

 

[Chas Tennis]

I'm flat hitter with dense pattern racquet but looking for adding more topspin.

Fundamental and must mechanism should be swing from under ball to upright through path.

Question is, do you maintain racquet face vertical, or close racquet angle to get more topspin?

You might look at slow motion videos of some flat hitting ATP players and see how closed their racket faces are just before impacts. After impacts the collision usually spins the racket due to off racket center line hits.

Solderling was noted for hard flat hitting. I had looked at a few forehands recently and he was neutral or less closed than other ATP forehands. You have to find some way to exclude under pressure and warm up practice techniques.

The video I looked at for Solderling. Watch on Youtube. To do single frame on Youtube, use the period & comma keys.

 

[PurpleOrange]

The angle of the racquet is vertical or slightly closed at contact. What matters more for spin is swinging low to high. Here are some examples: https://tennisgate.com/comparing-forehands-with-swing-path-animation/

This really useful resource. My swing path would look like Rogers's path most time. I should mimic what Nadal doing in the link see if how much spin I can generate.

 

[PurpleOrange]

Exactly. That’s probably the only thing that we can focus on. Your body should be able to figure out automatically that you need to go under the ball first to be able to do that.

When I intend to add topspin more, should I bent body much lower to get racquet under ball or lower body normally but swing more higher like Nadal's forehand?
I assume ball is at waist level (lets say middle height of hitter).

 

[PurpleOrange]

You might look at slow motion videos of some flat hitting ATP players and see how closed their racket faces are just before impacts.

Solderling was noted for hard flat hitting. I had looked at a few forehands recently and he was neutral or less closed than other ATP forehands. You have to find some way to exclude under pressure and warm up practice techniques.

The video I looked at for Solderling. Watch on Youtube. To do single frame on Youtube, use the period & comma keys.

I tried close racquet face just before impacts, and I ended up rotated my shoulder (on dominant arm).
To close face right before impact, either wrist or shoulder involved to close the face otherwise the face keep same while path.
Any tip or advice on this?
Even though my shoulder was involved, I noticed I was able to add topspin much but I stopped doing that cause coach said so.

 

[PurpleOrange]

Great pics!

Let's assume that we are discussing bread and butter neutral rally ~waist-high topspin forehands.

Note that Fed's swing path is not particularly low to high. Not at all.
Want more topspin? Focus on CLOSING the racket face more at the bottom of the backswing.
See second pic,where Fed has it about halfway closed and Murray pic with ace completely closed.
According to Serve Doc, closing the ace is the key to topspin. Not really clear WHY closing it generates more topspin, but that is what Serve Doc says.

I can see both ways (closing face and swing bottom to top) generate more top spin.
I wonder which way is more effective, or should I combine both? But I still want to keep pace and deep rather than high arch topspin. (I need this sometimes tho)

 

[Curious]

When I intend to add topspin more, should I bent body much lower to get racquet under ball or lower body normally but swing more higher like Nadal's forehand?
I assume ball is at waist level (lets say middle height of hitter).

A few things can help you go under the ball: drop your hand, drop your racket head, drop yourself (bend knees), flip/lag racket head. Or just be nice and loose in your arm, shoulder, grip although this doesn’t quite work in match play.

 

[optic yellow]

You might look at slow motion videos of some flat hitting ATP players and see how closed their racket faces are just before impacts.

Solderling was noted for hard flat hitting. I had looked at a few forehands recently and he was neutral or less closed than other ATP forehands. You have to find some way to exclude under pressure and warm up practice techniques.

The video I looked at for Solderling. Watch on Youtube. To do single frame on Youtube, use the period & comma keys.

As I told you in another thread you are never going to get anywhere with this until you describe the two components of launch angle and the two components of spin generation. Tilt is something they do but tilt is meaningless without being drawn in relation to the swing path vector.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

I can see both ways (closing face and swing bottom to top) generate more top spin.
I wonder which way is more effective, or should I combine both? But I still want to keep pace and deep rather than high arch topspin. (I need this sometimes tho)

Closing the face at bottom of backswing is likely much easier to feel than closing it two degrees at instant of contact.
Experiment with closing the face first, without a particularly steep upwards swing path (Fed does not have a steep upwards swing path).
Then experiment with closing the face with a steep upwards swing path (Not sure which pros are a good example of closing face and steep upwards swing path).

 

[Curious]

Not sure which pros are a good example of closing face and steep upwards swing path).

Kyrgios.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Kyrgios.

For topspin, also extremely important to keep the racquet tip pointing upwards post-contact (windshield wiper style if you will).
Have the tip pointing towards the net when you want to flatten it out.

or topspin,

 

[user92626]

Jac k sock goes beyond closing...

 

[Curious]

For topspin, also extremely important to keep the racquet tip pointing upwards post-contact (windshield wiper style if you will).
Have the tip pointing towards the net when you want to flatten it out.

or topspin,

How do you make the forward swing on a forehand? This guy seems to have nailed it.
Watch the whole video. Gets more interesting in the second half.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

How do you make the forward swing on a forehand? This guy seems to have nailed it.
Watch the whole video. Gets more interesting in the second half.

Will watch it later... Just not sure about post-contact cue to describe the racquet tip orientation for topspin.
"keep tip pointed up"? "don't close the tip"?
the common error is to have the tip pointing towards the net post-contact. that will just kill the topspin!

 

[Chas Tennis]

I tried close racquet face just before impacts, and I ended up rotated my shoulder (on dominant arm).
To close face right before impact, either wrist or shoulder involved to close the face otherwise the face keep same while path.
Any tip or advice on this?
Even though my shoulder was involved, I noticed I was able to add topspin much but I stopped doing that cause coach said so.

Not sure of what your description is saying.

Bent or straight elbow forehand? Look at ATP players and identify your forehand technique.

Rotate closed racket face angle with grip adjustment.

For a bent elbow forehand with Semi-Western (Djokovic) grip, the closed angle depends on the grip and can be adjusted. That would be trained and depends on ball height and pace of shot and other variables.

Straight arm forehand with Eastern Forehand Grip (Federer) adjustment is not as simple. ?

Google: forehand compilation.

 

[eah123]

I don't recommend changing the racket face angle to get more spin. The racket face should "look" at the direction you are hitting the ball. Drop the racket tip down more below the level of the ball if you want more top spin.

 

[zoingy]

I know people have already mentioned this, but it's probably worth reemphasizing - any adjustments to racquet face angle should be done well before contact.

From what I've seen in pro footage, the racquet face angle relative to the body is pretty much finalized somewhere between the start of the forward swing and when max stretch/lag happens.

(Sometimes more western forehands don't appear to do that, but imo the explanation is: 1) a lot of the western forehand forward swing is spent fully stretching the shoulder into the amount of external rotation required, and 2) on low balls, the entire system is tilted so the racquet face angle relative to the ground changes close to contact, but not relative to the body.)

Also personally I don't think of there being a special relationship between spin and racquet face angle. If ball go too up, I close more. If ball go too down, I open more. Sure, I may have to adjust based on spin I want to apply, but it's just another factor to account for.

 

[esm]

Topspin Pro may help