Anti-Doping Programme to introduce biological passport
- Thread starter CMM
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Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
Just read about this myself here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21699175
I think its great to finally see this implemented. I think tennis needs to prove itself as a clean sport and if we do have any dopers then i hope that they get called out asap. I really dont think any of the top 4 are dopers but this might just scare any other players into not doping anymore (if they did) and we'll see if this has a serious effect on results of matches.
I think its great to finally see this implemented. I think tennis needs to prove itself as a clean sport and if we do have any dopers then i hope that they get called out asap. I really dont think any of the top 4 are dopers but this might just scare any other players into not doping anymore (if they did) and we'll see if this has a serious effect on results of matches.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
It is a start. A good one.
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
Its just the way they phrased it to cover for any anomalies. They are basically saying that they look for signs that it could indicate doping and then when they find something, they will investigate it further to confirm or deny if its doping or just something that can be explained.
What "else" it could be tho, i have no idea. Could be the results of recovering from a temporary illness or virus that changed the bloodcount or maybe an error in the actual way they conduct the test. Who knows?
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
A positive step forward imo.
Duncan Bell
Hall of Fame
I'm for this if it means Clarky comes up with a new name for Noley.
Here's an article from 2009 diiscussing Armstrong's biological passport data from the Tour that year. Scientists analysing his data clearly found it unusual, but we know that nothing actually happened to him until last year.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated
The main peculiarity they detected, it seems, is that certain blood markers remained constant for the entire race, whereas, in an undoped rider, they would have expected to see levels drop, from beginning to end, over the course of the race. This seems to suggest that multiple tests would have to be administered over the course of a Grand Slam tournament in order to make such an analysis.
However, from what I've read, the top players are only ever subject to one test at Grand Slams: either after they lose in an early round, or after the final. To make the type of observations they did about Armstrong at the 2009 Tour, they would have to do multiple tests during competition, which they currently do not. Maybe this announcement automatically implies that they will now do more testing during tournaments, but they are certainly not going out of their way to tell us that.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated
The main peculiarity they detected, it seems, is that certain blood markers remained constant for the entire race, whereas, in an undoped rider, they would have expected to see levels drop, from beginning to end, over the course of the race. This seems to suggest that multiple tests would have to be administered over the course of a Grand Slam tournament in order to make such an analysis.
However, from what I've read, the top players are only ever subject to one test at Grand Slams: either after they lose in an early round, or after the final. To make the type of observations they did about Armstrong at the 2009 Tour, they would have to do multiple tests during competition, which they currently do not. Maybe this announcement automatically implies that they will now do more testing during tournaments, but they are certainly not going out of their way to tell us that.
Exactly. It's how (decent) scientists talk. They don't like talking in absolute terms, because there are always caveats. It's PR people and activists who like to pretend things are definitely this or that, or attribute firm statistics to speculation.
It doesn't diminish the value of the testing, and IMO it's a massive step forward and will make anyone considering doping think twice. I'm impressed, if slightly surprised, that the decision has come relatively quickly, but once top players started pushing for it it was inevitable, and in the light of Armstrong, sponsors will be keen too, so there was a sound business case, and no excuses for delaying the decision.
It will be interesting to see how quickly this comes in, and if it will be in waves, and how many players will be affected.
Paullaconte1
Rookie
It's definitely a good start. I don't fully understand why they call it "passport" though. It sounds fashionable ...
One thing that I'm not sure about is how much baseline data they have. In the story about Armstrong in the 2009 Tour de France I linked to above, they had baseline data from studies done during previous Tours. So they know that certain blood markers (regarding blood oxygenation) usually dropped from the beginning to the start of the race. Since tennis has only ever tested players once during the course of a Grand Slam tournament, I don't think they will have the data to establish a "normal" baseline for players at this point. If true, this would mean the biological passport wouldn't become truly useful for several years. But I'm don't know if this is the case, it could be that data collected from other sports will translate over and they can use that as a baseline.
But if it were the case, the biological passport program will really be about the next generation of players, not the current one.
But if it were the case, the biological passport program will really be about the next generation of players, not the current one.
Clarky21
Banned
Very much so. He also said that the testing is good enough as it is, and that he doesn't want increased testing.
forzamilan90
Legend
I love our sport, it's nice to keep it clean...so sexi
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
I find it extremely interesting that Federer/Murray and even Nadal are all for this but djokovic hasnt spoke about it and has actually took the trouble to say he's against it. I get that not all players want to have tests all the time but it really does make me wonder why he is so against it. Will be watching his performances with great interest once the testing gets fully implemented.
Talker
Hall of Fame
I can see only one reason he's against it.
But to say so publicly is strange in itself and looks too obvious.
We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
ivan_the_terrible
Hall of Fame
Agreed, Djokovic doesn't understand it either - he thinks they want to take away his diplomatic passport and is firmly against this idea.
Fiji
Legend
The egg being legal is also strange...
Crisstti
Legend
I see, thanks.
Didn't seem to help much in cycling though.
Is he really against it?. And is Nadal even on favour?, I don't think I've heard him say anything about it...
Clarky21
Banned
Yes he is. When asked about it he said he doesn't think it is needed, and the testing is good enough as it is.
And Nadal is for more testing and more transparency about the test results. He has said so multiple times lately.
Crisstti
Legend
When was he asked?.
I don't think Rafa has said anything specifically about the so called biological passport. He has mainly said he wants the results and the amount of testing and what kind of testing a player goes through, to be made public, and someone from WADA or something came out saying that would go against privacy
You know I don't think Rafa dopes, but what he's said about the amount of testing is more along the lines of demanding publicity, and saying he would be OK with a test every week if it is what it takes for tennis to not just be, but look clean, but that those tests should be made in a more respectful way.
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Please provide a link or proof or stfu
http://tvnz.co.nz/tennis-news/drug-testing-woefully-inadequate-say-leading-figures-5328429
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Q. Is that the kind of thing you'd definitely want to see for yourself?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: I mean, you know, I think everybody was expecting him to do that. I mean, it would be ridiculous for him to decline and refuse all the charges because it has been proven. They have like a thousand proofs that he's positive. I think it's a disgrace for the sport to have an athlete like this.
He cheated the sport. He cheated many people around the world with his career, with his life story. I think they should take all his titles away because it's not fair towards any sportsman, any athlete. It's just not the way to be successful. So I think he should suffer for his lies all these years.
Q. How comfortable are you that drug testing in tennis is rigorous enough?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, in tennis, you know, at least from my perspective, it's really good. Anti‑doping regulations a little bit maybe more strict in sense that you have to fill the whereabouts documents and you have to basically give an hour or two in every day of your life in a whole year, where you are.
But on the other hand, it gives them an opportunity to test you. And you know it is the same for the other players. At least from that point of view it's fair. And I have nothing against, you know, the anti‑doping federation, association, testing me 10, 20, 30 times a year.
I think as long as I know as many numbers of testing for the other players, I'll be happy.
Q. How about blood testing? The ITF records tell us in the whole of 2011 there was only 18 blood tests taken of the top players. How often would you or Andy or Roger or Rafa be blood tested?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Yeah, I wasn't tested with blood for last six, seven months. It was more regularly in last two, three years ago. I don't know the reason why they stopped it.
As I said, I mean, as long as it's fair, it's clean, we're trying to protect the identity of this sport. I believe tennis players are one of the most cleanest athletes in the world and one of the most competitive sports.
So as long as we keep it that way, I have no complaints about testing.
Q. Would you disagree with Darren Cahill who said today that he believes the Anti‑Doping Program in tennis is inadequate and it's been going backwards in recent years?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: What is the reason for that?
Q. That's his opinion.
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, I mean, I don't know. There has to be a reason why he said that, backstory.
I know Darren. He's a great guy, somebody that knows tennis really well, so must be something why he said that.
But in my opinion, yeah, there has been a complaints from players in few years, last few years, about this whereabouts system. Why do we need to write where we are every single day of our 365 days when most of the time we're spending on the courts and so forth.
Maybe that is something that is, you know, questionable. But on the other hand as many urine, as many blood sample tests they take, the better. Then you're aware that it's a clean sport and everybody has the same treatment.
Q. I think part of the issue is out‑of‑competition blood testing is expensive to carry out. Do you think the ITF should make it more of a priority to spend more money on that?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: I mean, it's a question for them, I guess. From my point, I mean, I was more than clear. I have nothing against the blood tests, you know.
Even though I prefer urine more. I don't like the needles too much. But, of course, I mean, you know, the money in that direction should be invested because, you know, it's always let's say a safeguard for our sport that they're investing money in our sport that is going to protect our sport and players.
Q. Would you be in favor of like a biological passport program that they're instituting in cycling for tennis?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: I mean, you know, we can discuss about the options for a while. But generally I believe that the present regulations about anti‑doping tests in tennis are good, in my views. I don't think there should be any major changes because, as you know, it's official. We have to write where we are every day of our lives so they have an opportunity to test us every day of 365 days in a year.
I think that doesn't give anybody a chance to do something that is unsportsmanlike.
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: I mean, you know, I think everybody was expecting him to do that. I mean, it would be ridiculous for him to decline and refuse all the charges because it has been proven. They have like a thousand proofs that he's positive. I think it's a disgrace for the sport to have an athlete like this.
He cheated the sport. He cheated many people around the world with his career, with his life story. I think they should take all his titles away because it's not fair towards any sportsman, any athlete. It's just not the way to be successful. So I think he should suffer for his lies all these years.
Q. How comfortable are you that drug testing in tennis is rigorous enough?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, in tennis, you know, at least from my perspective, it's really good. Anti‑doping regulations a little bit maybe more strict in sense that you have to fill the whereabouts documents and you have to basically give an hour or two in every day of your life in a whole year, where you are.
But on the other hand, it gives them an opportunity to test you. And you know it is the same for the other players. At least from that point of view it's fair. And I have nothing against, you know, the anti‑doping federation, association, testing me 10, 20, 30 times a year.
I think as long as I know as many numbers of testing for the other players, I'll be happy.
Q. How about blood testing? The ITF records tell us in the whole of 2011 there was only 18 blood tests taken of the top players. How often would you or Andy or Roger or Rafa be blood tested?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Yeah, I wasn't tested with blood for last six, seven months. It was more regularly in last two, three years ago. I don't know the reason why they stopped it.
As I said, I mean, as long as it's fair, it's clean, we're trying to protect the identity of this sport. I believe tennis players are one of the most cleanest athletes in the world and one of the most competitive sports.
So as long as we keep it that way, I have no complaints about testing.
Q. Would you disagree with Darren Cahill who said today that he believes the Anti‑Doping Program in tennis is inadequate and it's been going backwards in recent years?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: What is the reason for that?
Q. That's his opinion.
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, I mean, I don't know. There has to be a reason why he said that, backstory.
I know Darren. He's a great guy, somebody that knows tennis really well, so must be something why he said that.
But in my opinion, yeah, there has been a complaints from players in few years, last few years, about this whereabouts system. Why do we need to write where we are every single day of our 365 days when most of the time we're spending on the courts and so forth.
Maybe that is something that is, you know, questionable. But on the other hand as many urine, as many blood sample tests they take, the better. Then you're aware that it's a clean sport and everybody has the same treatment.
Q. I think part of the issue is out‑of‑competition blood testing is expensive to carry out. Do you think the ITF should make it more of a priority to spend more money on that?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: I mean, it's a question for them, I guess. From my point, I mean, I was more than clear. I have nothing against the blood tests, you know.
Even though I prefer urine more. I don't like the needles too much. But, of course, I mean, you know, the money in that direction should be invested because, you know, it's always let's say a safeguard for our sport that they're investing money in our sport that is going to protect our sport and players.
Q. Would you be in favor of like a biological passport program that they're instituting in cycling for tennis?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: I mean, you know, we can discuss about the options for a while. But generally I believe that the present regulations about anti‑doping tests in tennis are good, in my views. I don't think there should be any major changes because, as you know, it's official. We have to write where we are every day of our lives so they have an opportunity to test us every day of 365 days in a year.
I think that doesn't give anybody a chance to do something that is unsportsmanlike.
Clarky21
Banned
When was he asked?.
I don't think Rafa has said anything specifically about the so called biological passport. He has mainly said he wants the results and the amount of testing and what kind of testing a player goes through, to be made public, and someone from WADA or something came out saying that would go against privacy
You know I don't think Rafa dopes, but what he's said about the amount of testing is more along the lines of demanding publicity, and saying he would be OK with a test every week if it is what it takes for tennis to not just be, but look clean, but that those tests should be made in a more respectful way.
Here you go. 15th question down.
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/tou...ress-conference-at-the-2013-bnp-paribas-open/
Tennis Federation is working on biological passport
Submitted by Piruli on March 07th, 2013 – Flag this news as inappropriate
Category: Sports
The International Tennis Federation( ITF) is serious about the introduction of the biological passport in the world of tennis.
In the fight against doping, all involved parties, want to introduce this year a system where the male and female tennis players will be tested on a regular basis.
By tracking the results of blood and urine tests, suspicious fluctuations in the values could quickly be noticed. These flucuations could possibly indicate the use of banned or performance enhancing resources.
Top tennis players like Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray have called for the introduction of such a biological passport. The biological passport is already used in cycling for several years.
Submitted by Piruli on March 07th, 2013 – Flag this news as inappropriate
Category: Sports
The International Tennis Federation( ITF) is serious about the introduction of the biological passport in the world of tennis.
In the fight against doping, all involved parties, want to introduce this year a system where the male and female tennis players will be tested on a regular basis.
By tracking the results of blood and urine tests, suspicious fluctuations in the values could quickly be noticed. These flucuations could possibly indicate the use of banned or performance enhancing resources.
Top tennis players like Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray have called for the introduction of such a biological passport. The biological passport is already used in cycling for several years.
Here YOU go.....
"It’s 12:38 p.m. Here comes Rafa. Opening it up to questions now. Note: Due to my listening/typing skills, or lack thereof, the interview is paraphrased."
And if Djokovic said "Yes, absolutely, bring the biological passports, do more testing, invest more in to doping testing technology" the usual petty suspects would say how Lance Armstrong used to say the same thing.
It's incredibly ironic how there are so many Nadal/Djokovic doping accusations, insulting nicknames and in general negative, bitter, venomous comments on this board while at the same time people have the nerve to complain how this or that player is not "classy enough" - and to top it off, it's usually the same people that complain about someone's class while showing lack of theirs off.
It's incredibly ironic how there are so many Nadal/Djokovic doping accusations, insulting nicknames and in general negative, bitter, venomous comments on this board while at the same time people have the nerve to complain how this or that player is not "classy enough" - and to top it off, it's usually the same people that complain about someone's class while showing lack of theirs off.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
The major issue with the biological passports are they are utterly useless without more regular testing to create a timelined benchmark.
If a player isn't tested in ages - Djokovic being a case in point here having not been tested out of competition in something like a year - then they will have more leverage to claim any future inconsistencies are explainable variations over a long period. The passport scheme must test players in the first year at least every 4-6 weeks otherwise it'll just be another window dressing PR effort.
If a player isn't tested in ages - Djokovic being a case in point here having not been tested out of competition in something like a year - then they will have more leverage to claim any future inconsistencies are explainable variations over a long period. The passport scheme must test players in the first year at least every 4-6 weeks otherwise it'll just be another window dressing PR effort.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
Article: Roger Federer and Andy Murray welcome biological passports to stop doping in tennis
Federer: “We have to do everything to ensure our tour is as clean as it possibly can be.”
“That’s what it’s about - that the cheaters think twice, that they get caught if they do cheat. I think it’s just a matter of that.”
“If you got lucky like I did last year, Rotterdam, Dubai, Indian Wells, I won all three tournaments and didn’t get tested once. That shouldn’t be OK,” he said.
Murray: “It’s one of the best ways to ensure your sport stays as clean as possible and it’s good tennis has made that jump.”
http://gulfnews.com/sport/tennis/ro...ping-in-tennis-1.1155656#.UTnxiCAG0e9.twitter
Federer: “We have to do everything to ensure our tour is as clean as it possibly can be.”
“That’s what it’s about - that the cheaters think twice, that they get caught if they do cheat. I think it’s just a matter of that.”
“If you got lucky like I did last year, Rotterdam, Dubai, Indian Wells, I won all three tournaments and didn’t get tested once. That shouldn’t be OK,” he said.
Murray: “It’s one of the best ways to ensure your sport stays as clean as possible and it’s good tennis has made that jump.”
http://gulfnews.com/sport/tennis/ro...ping-in-tennis-1.1155656#.UTnxiCAG0e9.twitter
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Considering how they get it -- what they make you "pass" -- it should be called "pissport" or "pisspassport"
:shock:
Crisstti
Legend
Wouldn't he have gotten tested after the finals?.
xan
Hall of Fame
well said my friend. well said.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
That is exactly what it is. It is just PR propaganda to give the general public a false sense of security that the governing bodies are doing all they can to stop doping in tennis but the reality is, they are not doing that and never will.
Biological passports in cycling did not stop Armstrong and almost everybody else from being habitual dopers.
ivan_the_terrible
Hall of Fame
Stuart Miller is a dope, pardon the pun
Anyway, how can they get a proper baseline if they're testing so infrequently? How can they establish a proper baseline if a player is doped up during the sampling?
I would like someone to explain the whole bio passport procedure, because if it's based on frequent testing then it's a flawed program in tennis.
Didn't they say they will increase the number of blood tests this year? Ive also seen some WTA players tweeting about being tested after winning matches which is a bit different from what they used to do in the past.Stuart Miller is a dope, pardon the pun
Anyway, how can they get a proper baseline if they're testing so infrequently? How can they establish a proper baseline if a player is doped up during the sampling?
I would like someone to explain the whole bio passport procedure, because if it's based on frequent testing then it's a flawed program in tennis.
https://twitter.com/CaroWozniacki/status/347027812143751168
https://twitter.com/EVesnina001/status/367441472574226432
The Meat
Hall of Fame
Stuart Miller is a dope, pardon the pun
Anyway, how can they get a proper baseline if they're testing so infrequently? How can they establish a proper baseline if a player is doped up during the sampling?
I would like someone to explain the whole bio passport procedure, because if it's based on frequent testing then it's a flawed program in tennis.
If they play basically only from the baseline and run marathons there, they dope.
J
JRAJ1988
Guest
This is a step forward in the battle vs the dopers.
In my opinion barring the Wayne Odesnik case, a few other players ranked well outside the top 100 I really don't see anyone else doping.
Could it be that Nadal, Djokovic, Federer and Murray are just talented players? other than the accusations of taking performance enhancing substances?
In my opinion barring the Wayne Odesnik case, a few other players ranked well outside the top 100 I really don't see anyone else doping.
Could it be that Nadal, Djokovic, Federer and Murray are just talented players? other than the accusations of taking performance enhancing substances?
It could be. Players deserve to be respected and not made the subject of unfounded accusations.
BUT, equally, fans deserve to be reassured and respected. We want to be confident we are can watch a sport we know is bolstered by a strong and effective antidoping programme that would make it highly risky for players to cheat the system and dope. The ITF does not deliver that confidence. Its antidoping programme is a sham. The more it is defended by the likes of its president, Ricci Bitti, or Stuart Miller, its antidoping director or even by the crass remarks of ex-players like Brad Gilbert who make misleading claims about players being tested thirty times a year or suchlike, the more I am convinced that the sport exists in a state of denial and that a significant doping problem exists.
We know from cycling and track & field where doping is rife, that dopers lie and cheat and will say anything. To that extent, any player can be suspected, sad to say.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Well said, and all too true.
Chico
Banned
+1. Excellent post. Thank you.
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
On paper, this looks good. As things stand in tennis, though, it's probably just a PR stunt, unfortunately.
Plus, the promised 'increase' in tests is quite daunting: a grand total of *seven* out of competition tests were conducted by USADA during Q2 2013, five on men (including two on Odesnik, pretty useful, that) and two on women--well, woman, actually, as they were both for Venus Williams. It's less than for sports like archery, curling, fencing or... cheerleading (don't laugh), so yeah, looks like we're making serious headway, here... :roll:
http://www.usada.org/sport-testing-numbers-2013
Granted, these are the figures for the US only, but it's pretty easy to deduce that tests may be more numerous in countries like France and Germany, and less numerous in, say, Spain or South America. (Jamaica doesn't count in this case, because of the huge number of high-level Jamaican tennis players.
)
Plus, the promised 'increase' in tests is quite daunting: a grand total of *seven* out of competition tests were conducted by USADA during Q2 2013, five on men (including two on Odesnik, pretty useful, that) and two on women--well, woman, actually, as they were both for Venus Williams. It's less than for sports like archery, curling, fencing or... cheerleading (don't laugh), so yeah, looks like we're making serious headway, here... :roll:
http://www.usada.org/sport-testing-numbers-2013
Granted, these are the figures for the US only, but it's pretty easy to deduce that tests may be more numerous in countries like France and Germany, and less numerous in, say, Spain or South America. (Jamaica doesn't count in this case, because of the huge number of high-level Jamaican tennis players.
)When was he asked?.
I don't think Rafa has said anything specifically about the so called biological passport. He has mainly said he wants the results and the amount of testing and what kind of testing a player goes through, to be made public, and someone from WADA or something came out saying that would go against privacy
You know I don't think Rafa dopes, but what he's said about the amount of testing is more along the lines of demanding publicity, and saying he would be OK with a test every week if it is what it takes for tennis to not just be, but look clean, but that those tests should be made in a more respectful way.
I think you should google tennis biological passport to see what players have said. Rafa is in favor of the biological passport.
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