Any of you Pushers?

WilsonPlayer101

WilsonPlayer101

Professional
My understanding is that pushers are frowned upon but I'm curious how many of you are pushers? I tried to do research on what a pusher is but I just got confused and still not sure. Regardless of what it is, if you know you are a pusher tell us and tell us why you continue to be one or if you were a pusher and changed why?
 
i'm trying to become more of a pusher. and when i say pusher, i prob mean more of a counter puncher. deep loopy balls, get everything back, force them to make a mistake, or give me a really easy short ball.
 
I can push pretty good at the 4.0 level, beating most 3.5's without resorting to any good tennis, thought, or technique.
I just hit with conti grip (one grip, one way), move them around, keep it slow and angled, occasionally hit it deep flatter with sidespin, and run around fetching and returning their best shots.
IF I feel like running and extending the point.
Sometimes, it's important to return one more ball than your opponent, especially if they can hit really hard occasionally, but miss a few in between.
Against big strong hitters, it's best to move them around, to keep them from hitting stronger, because you're tiring out their legs and wind.
If you're the biggest and strongest, there's very little reason to push, fetch, retrieve, and get.
 
I'm not, but it would benefit my game to adopt some pusher tactics in certain situations! I need to be a bit less "live by the sword, die by the sword."
 
BullDogTennis said:
i'm trying to become more of a pusher. and when i say pusher, i prob mean more of a counter puncher. deep loopy balls, get everything back, force them to make a mistake, or give me a really easy short ball.
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BullDog, from the sounds of it I might be becoming a pusher myself. I don't think I was before but now it seems so. Basically are you saying just make sure you return it and let them make a mistake??? If so that's what I have been doing lately but was not sure if I was actually a pusher or not. Ever since I changed racquets and strings (now play with Head MG Radical MP and uncoated gut strings by Klip) I have been more of a pusher.

I hear that Murray and Nadal are accused of being pushers and frowned upon.
 
Lee, I usually play against a guy who makes mistakes easily. So as long as I return the ball he's going to, well by the law of averages make a mistake and loose the point. I'm not a great player so I make mistakes but I think if I just make sure I return the ball he'll error out eventually. Then once in awhile I hit a really hard one because he won't expect it and he'll screw up some how by missing it or mis-hitting it.
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
BullDog, from the sounds of it I might be becoming a pusher myself. I don't think I was before but now it seems so. Basically are you saying just make sure you return it and let them make a mistake??? If so that's what I have been doing lately but was not sure if I was actually a pusher or not. Ever since I changed racquets and strings (now play with Head MG Radical MP and uncoated gut strings by Klip) I have been more of a pusher.

I hear that Murray and Nadal are accused of being pushers and frowned upon.
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I don't disagree with your first paragraph. But why would you come up those assessments of Nadal and Murray if you believed what you said earlier? Have you ever seen those guys play tennis?
 
I'm not accusing Bjorn Borg of being a pusher but I know he hit with a lot of top spin and high bounces. And watching classic matches on Tennis TV I saw Borg vs. Ashe at Hilton Head and Ashe was having a hard time. Between sets Ashe says that it's hard for him to return Borg's shots because Borg would hit a lot of top spin that would jump up to Ashe's upper body. Those kind of shots are just temping an opponent to screw up at some point, no matter how good the opponent is.
 
LuckyR said:
I don't disagree with your first paragraph. But why would you come up those assessments of Nadal and Murray if you believed what you said earlier? Have you ever seen those guys play tennis?
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Hey Lucky,

No I don't think that Nadal and Murray are pushers I'm just saying many here at the tennis forums accuse Murray and Nadal of being pushers. I have seen them play and don't think they are but just saying that those two guys get a bad rap when it comes to being accused of that. Just like I say Borg was not a pusher but at some point Ashe was messing up because Borg would hit high returns with top spin and Ashe could not return them like he should or could and both Borg and Ashe are in my top 10 favorite players.
 
BullDogTennis said:
i'm trying to become more of a pusher. and when i say pusher, i prob mean more of a counter puncher. deep loopy balls, get everything back, force them to make a mistake, or give me a really easy short ball.
Click to expand...
I thought a counter puncher does what the name says - they counteract when there opponent is at an advantage in the rally - just think of Gael Monfils, he gets to everything and stands way behind the baseline and will chase everything down looking like he has no chance then pulls a winner out of no where....
 
decades said:
you should have asked "any of you Not?"...
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Maybe so. That implies that most are I suppose. That's like that episode of Happy Days when the guys are in ROTC or something and the sarge asks if there are any volunteers please step forward. Everyone steps back so the guy who didn't is the volunteer. Maybe that was Potsy. Forgot. I think the sarge was Sergent Belcher or something.
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
BullDog, from the sounds of it I might be becoming a pusher myself. I don't think I was before but now it seems so. Basically are you saying just make sure you return it and let them make a mistake??? If so that's what I have been doing lately but was not sure if I was actually a pusher or not. Ever since I changed racquets and strings (now play with Head MG Radical MP and uncoated gut strings by Klip) I have been more of a pusher.

I hear that Murray and Nadal are accused of being pushers and frowned upon.
Click to expand...

i would say for they are 'pushers' of the ATP tour. but that doesn't mean there not capable of hitting well struck winners.
 
I have played about 8 competitive matches and about 6 were against pushers. Many more pushers than people who admit they are pushers methinks.
 
ProgressoR said:
I have played about 8 competitive matches and about 6 were against pushers. Many more pushers than people who admit they are pushers methinks.
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I watch a lot of Tennis TV so I see a lot of matches, both current and classic matches. I forgot which match I was watching but McEnroe one of the commentators and he did outright call someone a pusher. I can not remember who it was but it was a current player. The match could have been current or a few years ago that was being broadcast as a Classic Match. I guess being a pusher is a negative thing in some ways since most don't admit to it but McEnroe had no problem stating that the player was one.
 
My dad was not a pro but was the army champ years ago and I guess he was a pusher too because he told me to always make sure that I return the ball and the opponent would mess up eventually. I guess that's good advice except if the opponent hits like a cannon I probably won't return the ball all that often. I guess his point was to make sure I return it and do my best not to mess up and let the other guy make mistakes.
 
Been hashed and rehashed.
Pusher is a MINDSET, not necessarily a physical style or limit.
Pushers wait for the other guy to make mistakes, rather than make their own trying for aggressive shots.
AndreAgassi is NOT a pusher, but an aggressive baseliner.
Whether you push or not depends on circumstance and opponent's quality, competitiveness, and consistentcy.
We all push AT TIMES, to not lose a match.
We all try to WIN a match with aggressive, good shots.
 
Pretty much every amateur player thinks every other player who is any good is a pusher. :P Okay that's a slight exaggeration but not to far from the truth. Most of the time I see pushers complaining about pushers!
 
The pusher is somebody who doggedly makes me hit the ball that I don't want to hit, over and over, until I screw up.

The pusher fails to give me the amount of pace I require to control my most aggressive shots. This clear lack of sportsmanship often causes me to hit long, purely out of irritation at having to play an obviously lesser player.

The pusher refuses to see that my crosscourt forehands are clearly winners and should be respected as such.

Worst of all, the pusher robs my joy of the game by failing to play into my hands, causing me to sweat excessively in order to stay in the match.

They are the worst! :twisted:
 
cghipp said:
The pusher is somebody who doggedly makes me hit the ball that I don't want to hit, over and over, until I screw up.

The pusher fails to give me the amount of pace I require to control my most aggressive shots. This clear lack of sportsmanship often causes me to hit long, purely out of irritation at having to play an obviously lesser player.

The pusher refuses to see that my crosscourt forehands are clearly winners and should be respected as such.

Worst of all, the pusher robs my joy of the game by failing to play into my hands, causing me to sweat excessively in order to stay in the match.

They are the worst! :twisted:
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That description would be me if I played against a pro. I mean a pro would clean up the court with me but I'd in the meantime get some in and cause the pro frustration because I'd be doing exactly what you say.

A friend of mine I play with is not as good as me and he does the same to me so I give him the same treatment back. I punish a pusher by pushing him.
 
beedlejuice22 said:
I hate pushers more than anything I've ever hated, ever. Pushing isn't tennis.
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Pushing is just kinda getting by, isn't it? Kinda like the movie "Office Space" when boss Lumberg played by Gary Cole wants his group to do more than just get by or the minimum. Then Peter played by Ron Livingston does just the minimum, or even less and gets ahead at the office.
 
GuyClinch said:
Pretty much every amateur player thinks every other player who is any good is a pusher. :P Okay that's a slight exaggeration but not to far from the truth. Most of the time I see pushers complaining about pushers!
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So true, lol. The loser always complains about the pusher! I played a "textbook" pusher in singles a couple of months back. She was native Chinese, not at all "Americanized," and I admit I found that a bit intimidating because I felt she was not going to give up on any point, no matter what. (Yes, that is a cultural stereotype, my apologies.) It held true, though. And no matter what I hit, it came back as a very deep, high-bouncing lob.

From the start I was concerned about my ability to last to the end. It was the kind of match that can make players like me completely self-destruct. I managed to win pretty convincingly, but I never felt like I was winning until it was over. The entire time I was very aware that, on a different day, she might have eaten me alive. My teammates were very proud of me, knowing how hard it is for me to be a patient player!

I remember when I was a 3.0 beginner with only a good serve and a strong forehand. I thought anyone whose individual strokes were not as "pretty" as mine could not be a better player than me. It's a terrible mindset and is very frustrating, because it gives you an external cause for your losses and you don't seek improvement within yourself. At 3.5 I came to terms with my 2.5 match skills/mental game, and I started to improve much more quickly. These days I have no problem acknowledging that if you can beat me more often than I can beat you, then you're a better player. And if you beat me on any one day then you're better that day. I have a lot more appreciation for various playing styles. Unless you scream every time you hit the ball, lol. I will never be mentally tough enough to deal with that!
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
That description would be me if I played against a pro. I mean a pro would clean up the court with me but I'd in the meantime get some in and cause the pro frustration because I'd be doing exactly what you say.
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When you're playing someone who is better on paper, "pushing" may be your only hope. The pusher refuses to know his "place," which always irritates opponents!

But are you good enough to push if you needed to? I fear I would not be, because I (and most people who complain about pushers) lack the necessary consistency and patience. That's why we "pusher haters" play the way we do (physically talented but not so much mentally, less patient), pushers play the way they do (mentally tough, patient, scrappy), and the best players play whatever way suits the occasion, because they have the chops and the attitude to do it.
 
So, what does a pusher do with a mid court sitter? ;)

I push just to survive with this one friend who is like 2 levels above me, but with players in my level, I'm an offensive all courter :)
 
I slice tons. It goes something like
1st serve. 2hbh. slice approach. Volley. Overhead
2nd serve. slice. slice. slice. topspin forehand. flat backhand. drop shot. lob.

I have a weird playing style
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
Hey Lucky,

No I don't think that Nadal and Murray are pushers I'm just saying many here at the tennis forums accuse Murray and Nadal of being pushers. I have seen them play and don't think they are but just saying that those two guys get a bad rap when it comes to being accused of that. Just like I say Borg was not a pusher but at some point Ashe was messing up because Borg would hit high returns with top spin and Ashe could not return them like he should or could and both Borg and Ashe are in my top 10 favorite players.
Click to expand...

Good, I'm glad to hear that. Anyone can define a nonstandard word (like "pusher") to mean anything they want, but most use it as a put down for players that play high percentage tennis (especially those that the person in question lost to).

Let's face it, every time you strike a ball you can try for a high or low percentage shot. We pretty much all hit both. It is a percentage thing.

Everyone on the ATP Tour is capable of hitting winners and does hit winners when it is the correct time to do so. Pretty much that makes none of them "pushers" in the common Club and Rec use of the word.
 
LuckyR said:
Good, I'm glad to hear that. Anyone can define a nonstandard word (like "pusher") to mean anything they want, but most use it as a put down for players that play high percentage tennis (especially those that the person in question lost to).

Let's face it, every time you strike a ball you can try for a high or low percentage shot. We pretty much all hit both. It is a percentage thing.

Everyone on the ATP Tour is capable of hitting winners and does hit winners when it is the correct time to do so. Pretty much that makes none of them "pushers" in the common Club and Rec use of the word.
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Nadal, Murray,Montanes and Simon are pushers comparatively to the rest of the Tour, and I think it is acceptable to use the term that way. Montanes is proof pushers can be fun to watch
 
Funny thing is when I heard McEnroe refer to a player as a pusher I thought he meant that the persons way of hitting the forehand was a pusher. But through Google searches and searches through this forum and my thread I started I learned that it was a way of handling one's game. Basically a way to keep one's head above water if I may.

I thought it was just referred to as a way a guy hits the forehand such as when the ball touches the strings you push thru the ball but turns out it's keeping the game alive while playing it somewhat safe.
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
I'm not accusing Bjorn Borg of being a pusher but I know he hit with a lot of top spin and high bounces. And watching classic matches on Tennis TV I saw Borg vs. Ashe at Hilton Head and Ashe was having a hard time. Between sets Ashe says that it's hard for him to return Borg's shots because Borg would hit a lot of top spin that would jump up to Ashe's upper body. Those kind of shots are just temping an opponent to screw up at some point, no matter how good the opponent is.
Click to expand...

That's not pushing. Ashe is commentating on how forcing and powerful Borg's topspin shots were, not the fact that he kept lobbing the ball into the middle of the court. In that case, Federer and Nadal are Tennis' ultimate pushers.

WilsonPlayer101 said:
Hey Lucky,

No I don't think that Nadal and Murray are pushers I'm just saying many here at the tennis forums accuse Murray and Nadal of being pushers. I have seen them play and don't think they are but just saying that those two guys get a bad rap when it comes to being accused of that. Just like I say Borg was not a pusher but at some point Ashe was messing up because Borg would hit high returns with top spin and Ashe could not return them like he should or could and both Borg and Ashe are in my top 10 favorite players.
Click to expand...

Nadal doesn't get a "bad rap". He was called "ONE DIMENSIONAL", but that's far from being a pusher.

Also, anyone who has seen Murray play knows that he isn't a pusher. Murray hits the ball WAY too hard to be a pusher. Monfils is the closest thing to a pusher/moonballer in the ATP tour. He CAN hit the ball hard, but he mostly chooses to lob his shots in. Anyone who has seen Murray play against Nadal can immediately tell, this guy is a badass counterpuncher with shades of a full court game.

As for me, I'm not a pusher, but I do make opponents beat me to win a point. They generally have to hit 2 or 3 winners to win a point. If they can't and drop the ball short, I'm going straight into offense and taking the point away from them or I get the free unforced error.
 
xFullCourtTenniSx said:
That's not pushing. Ashe is commentating on how forcing and powerful Borg's topspin shots were, not the fact that he kept lobbing the ball into the middle of the court. In that case, Federer and Nadal are Tennis' ultimate pushers.



Nadal doesn't get a "bad rap". He was called "ONE DIMENSIONAL", but that's far from being a pusher.

Also, anyone who has seen Murray play knows that he isn't a pusher. Murray hits the ball WAY too hard to be a pusher. Monfils is the closest thing to a pusher/moonballer in the ATP tour. He CAN hit the ball hard, but he mostly chooses to lob his shots in. Anyone who has seen Murray play against Nadal can immediately tell, this guy is a badass counterpuncher with shades of a full court game.

As for me, I'm not a pusher, but I do make opponents beat me to win a point. They generally have to hit 2 or 3 winners to win a point. If they can't and drop the ball short, I'm going straight into offense and taking the point away from them or I get the free unforced error.
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I would say Murray is a counterpuncher, but to say he doesn't push is going a bit far. He hits hard, but he doesn't attack short balls often and rarely goes for outright winners off the ground. Murray has to be almost pulled to the net on his opponent's terms. Nadal is definitely a balanced baseliner, if anything more offensive than defensive.

Personally, I'm more of a counterpuncher/all-court player. I hit hard, but I hit with more spin than pace deep in the baseline off both wings and I always charge the net on a weak ball. Imagine Murray's serve, Nadal's forehand, and Federer's backhand/net attacking game. Granted I'm not nearly as skilled as they are, but that's generally how I would sum up my game.
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
My understanding is that pushers are frowned upon but I'm curious how many of you are pushers? I tried to do research on what a pusher is but I just got confused and still not sure. Regardless of what it is, if you know you are a pusher tell us and tell us why you continue to be one or if you were a pusher and changed why?
Click to expand...

The main and frustrating problem in these discussions tends to be terminological with no one agreeing to stay focused (what a concept for a sport like tennis) on a precise definition. My main beef with these discussions is that I notice a lot of intellectual laziness which often prohibits folks from a primary goal: get good enough to beat a variety of opponents including "pushers". I'm of the opinion is that you need to analyze your game and your opponent's game in enough detail to come up with a game plan to beat them. Profound, ehh? :)

Frankly, I don't think a pusher is someone who patiently gets his opponents to make a mistake is a satisfactory definition. If that were a sufficient condition , anyone who tries to play high percentage consistent tennis is a pusher. Then we get absurdities like calling Nadal, Borg or Murray a pusher. They do hit winners and do try to take control of the point. At times, even aggressive players like Federer push.

Another thread I often see in these cisucssions is that someone is considered a pusher is he is reluctant to take control of the point compared to their normal competition. Here the refinement is based on a comparison class (your "normal competition"). But why isn't this called a smart adjustment to your opponents? Murray might be more aggressive against Nadal because of the kind of balls they hit to they each other, but not so much against someone like Tsonga. I know I adjust how I hit against different opponents. One of my opponents loves to hit the flat DTL shot. I "push" against him because I know that half the time he'll miss. I'll hit a lot of chips to reset the point, and loopy crosscourt groundstrokes until he misses or gives me a short ball. Against another opponent who is inclined to net rush like me, I know I have to be aggressive and try to take control of the point sooner.

So what if a pusher is someone whose strokes are so unrefined that they cannot produce offensive shots. Well, a lot depends on what you mean "offensive shots". I know one opponent that I would call a pusher in this sense because he runs down every shot and lobs it. And R does this with something that looks like a push lob volley. R's lob is his offensive shot. He would lob his grandmother to win a point. That means I have to be prepared to hit a lot of overheads, and I can probably take control of the point if I try to slice and dice him.

Am I pusher? Not entirely as my natural game is to net rush, but I do employ pusher-style tactics depending on how you define "pusher".
 
Falloutjr said:
I would say Murray is a counterpuncher, but to say he doesn't push is going a bit far. He hits hard, but he doesn't attack short balls often and rarely goes for outright winners off the ground. Murray has to be almost pulled to the net on his opponent's terms. Nadal is definitely a balanced baseliner, if anything more offensive than defensive.

Personally, I'm more of a counterpuncher/all-court player. I hit hard, but I hit with more spin than pace deep in the baseline off both wings and I always charge the net on a weak ball. Imagine Murray's serve, Nadal's forehand, and Federer's backhand/net attacking game. Granted I'm not nearly as skilled as they are, but that's generally how I would sum up my game.
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Well then you haven't seen him play Nadal. I never really thought Murray had a legitimate attacking game, but when I saw him play Nadal at the Australian Open 2010, I was thinking, "THAT is how you beat Nadal! Constantly take a crack at the ball and exploit the angles." But when he got to the finals, he became defensive again and got taken out by Federer.

Murray's game has been changing over time to be a little more aggressive and assertive. Eventually I think he'll be a lot more like Nadal, only a flatter and more outright powerful version.

As for your game... I see you describe it as having a ******bag forehand, a weak serve, and an arrogant backhand that pulls magic out of your ass on the run? Nice... lol jk
 
LeeD said:
We all push AT TIMES, to not lose a match.
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That's the truth. Or when we can't hit our *** with either hand and just want to hit a few balls to try to regain some semblance of a game.

Hitting at 75% of your max pace, and deep, and waiting for a short ball to attack isn't pushing. Just because the kids on this board think 'anyone who isn't trying to hit a winner from 4 ft behind baseline on every shot' is a pusher, doesn't make it true.

OP, leave the pros out of it. To paraphrase Nicklaus (talking about Woods): "they play a game we are not familiar with." If you go to an ATP event and see how hard they hit - in practice! - you'll laugh at yourself for even thinking for a nanosecond that Murray/Nadal are pushers.
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
My understanding is that pushers are frowned upon but I'm curious how many of you are pushers? I tried to do research on what a pusher is but I just got confused and still not sure. Regardless of what it is, if you know you are a pusher tell us and tell us why you continue to be one or if you were a pusher and changed why?
Click to expand...
I'm a pusher and I'm proud of it. (just kidding, I wish I could hit 100mph flat forehand winners like Blake)

I continue to push because it works. I'll never be "good" at tennis. but I enjoy the competition and I love winning. I'm not trying to earn a ATP point, tennis will always be a hobby and pushing works *most of the time* in recreational tennis. Don't get me wrong though, I continue to try to improve every aspect my game, especially forehand so I can put away easy floaters instead of dink them back.

beedlejuice22 said:
I hate pushers more than anything I've ever hated, ever. Pushing isn't tennis.
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Over the years I came across a variety of players. and usually those that complain/whine/cry about my game and pushing in general have been beginners. It seems that they've watched too many highlight reels of professional tennis on Youtube which insinuates that hitting winners is the only way to win a match. Once they're down 0-5 and the ugly reality sets in, they become frustrated and angry b/c errors start to pile up and they just cannot hit a blazing winner past the damned pusher. Before they know it the match's over in 20 minutes. Saddest part of it all? they rationalize the beating they just received by saying, "pushing isn't tennis." They didn't really lose b/c pushing isn't tennis. ha!

on the other hand, intermediate players usually acknowledge pushing is just another style in the game of tennis, and they have a respect (for the lack of a better term) for it. They don't get frustrated as easily and they certainly don't complain/whine/cry about pushing. In fact they're more appreciative of the competition. if I lose to someone like that who can put up a fight, then hats off to them. They're simply better players and they've just earned a lot of respect for their patient game.
 
WilsonPlayer101 said:
My understanding is that pushers are frowned upon but I'm curious how many of you are pushers? I tried to do research on what a pusher is but I just got confused and still not sure. Regardless of what it is, if you know you are a pusher tell us and tell us why you continue to be one or if you were a pusher and changed why?
Click to expand...

Fine, you found me out - I'm a pusher. Here are the reasons:

1.) Attitude. I hate giving a match away ... Absolutely hate it. If you win by hitting 20 winners against me, then I'm fine - we shake hands and leave buddies. If you win because I hit 20 unforced errors then we can still leave buddies, but it's going to leave a very sour taste in my mouth. That attitude naturally leads to a cautious playing style.

2.) Athletically untalented. The only thing I have going for me is court speed, so that's what I use.

3.) It works. Give your opponent the opportunity to F*ck up and you'll be amazed at how often they'll take it.
 
as I've gotten more and more consistent and smarter about working the point, I have now been accused of pushing tactics...whatever, I'm finally winning consistently and my strokes are oh so pretty :)
 
I'm definitely not a pusher, as I prefer to hit a winner rather than watch my opponent hit long or into the net.

I'm always amused by pushers who hate pushers. One of my players didn't like to produce his own pace (he wasn't only a pusher). He would always complain about pushers, but whenever he played one, it became a pushing match: two players dinking balls back and forth to each other and not even attempting put-aways at the net. Part of the reason he had to push is he didn't know how to volley well.
 
BullDogTennis said:
i'm trying to become more of a pusher. and when i say pusher, i prob mean more of a counter puncher. deep loopy balls, get everything back, force them to make a mistake, or give me a really easy short ball.
Click to expand...

Counter punchers and pushers are not close to being similar styles.
 
Funniest thing ever...watching two good pushers(these guy essentially push but can hit passing shots, go to the net, and serve decently) Their solid 4.0's and their 2 set matches...go on and on and on
 
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