Any other Fed fans dwelling on 40-15 all over again?

[Sorry_to_tell_you_mate]

Fed had four serves in theory so all he had to do was go all out on all of them and he probably would have gotten an ace

And even if he loses those 4 serves, at deuce he's still at an advantage since that position is like having a mini break in a tie-break.

 

[ND-13]

Federer beating Nadal and Djokovic b2b to win Wimbledon at that age would have been a game changer

No, still Nadal and Djokovic will be valued the same. Federer may have an additional highlight in his resume, which does not alter his resume significantly and in any case he went on to defeat Djoker at the YEC. All good.

 

[AgassiSuperSlam11]

FWIW, he did save MP's to extend the 2008 Wimbledon Final to a fifth set (if memory serves correct). Moreover, I don't think the MP's he lost against Nole in 3 slams (US 2010, 2011, and Wimbledon 2019) were the most egregious examples of choking. Nole deserves some credit for some good returns. Although I think Fed should've served once to the body against Nole in the 2019 MP's.

A meniscus tear is a common injury in all sports but once you keep removing cartilage and getting multiple meniscectomies this is serious. In a different thread I was told F*** Off and that every player should decide when to retire, however, this is a relatively a young man with a family who likes to ski in Switzerland and any minor injury can aggravate his condition. Remember, we walk on our legs and not with our arms. Hindsight is only 20-20 but the end of 2019 was a good choice for retirement.

 

[Mustard]

Look at it this way. Federer won a lot in his career. Imagine what it's like for Coria, or Roddick failing to win Wimbledon.

 

[Oval_Solid]

Wimbledon 08 was tougher
4015 was old guy tennis
good to see old fed get some exercise out doors

 

[Mustard]

At age 39 he beat Nadal and came within a point against Djokovic . Let us have perspective

37.

 

[Mustard]

FWIW, he did save MP's to extend the 2008 Wimbledon Final to a fifth set (if memory serves correct).

He saved 1 CP in the 4th set tiebreak. They were the best 2 points of the match probably, i.e. Nadal's down the line forehand to get to championship point, and Federer's down the line backhand to save championship point.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

At age 39 he beat Nadal and came within a point against Djokovic . Let us have perspective

38 (1981-2019).


But while you're right, it does probably hurt more being that close in that circumstance. For another player, in another stage of their career I guess they would say, well, I'm happy I could make it competitive and I didn't lose in straights. But Federer in a Wimbledon final wants to win, and being that close in what was his last chance probably made it worse. I think he would have preferred to lose like that some another random final like Wimbledon 2015 (or say, USO 2009) and be routined in Wimbledon 2019.

 

[MichaelNadal]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572242188418908160

 

[Mustard]

38 (1981-2019).

37. Federer was born on 8 August 1981. The 2019 Wimbledon final was on 14 July 2019. Federer was 37 from 8 August 2018 to 7 August 2019.

 

[ND-13]

37.

3 years back from now should be 38.

 

[Mustard]

3 years back from now should be 38.

3 years and 2 months ago, while Federer's birthday was just over a month ago.

As I said, Federer was 37 from 8 August 2018 to 7 August 2019. He didn't become 38 until 8 August 2019. That's how someone's age works. The 2019 Wimbledon final was on 14 July 2019, so he was 37 at the time.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

3 years and 2 months ago, while Federer's birthday was just over a month ago.

As I said, Federer was 37 from 8 August 2018 to 7 August 2019. He didn't become 38 until 8 August 2019. That's how someone's age works. The 2019 Wimbledon final was on 14 July 2019, so he was 37 at the time.

Nah, you don't age a whole year from one day to the next. You are 37.1, 37.4, 37.9, etc. (and numbers are usually rounded up if it's more than 5 and down if it's less). I'd agree if the match was in February maybe, but 20 days for his birthday? He was 38.

 

[BGod]

This was not a choke but a hand injury.
Fed's ballstriking and return were impacted due to the hand injury, which was sustained before Stuttgart in 2018. He almost lost to Paire in Halle, then did lose to Coric. Robbie Federer said Fed came close to not even playing Wimbledon 2018 because of his right hand.

And yet he won 4 Bo5 matches and was up 2-0 with MP

 

[Mustard]

Nah, you don't age a whole year from one day to the next. You are 37.1, 37.4, 37.9, etc. (and numbers are usually rounded up if it's more than 5 and down if it's less). I'd agree if the match was in February maybe, but 20 days for his birthday? He was 38.

Doesn't work that way. If someone dies the day before their 90th birthday, they died aged 89.

Jimmy Connors started the 1991 US Open aged 38, and won his first 3 matches aged 38, beat Krickstein in the fourth round on his 39th birthday, then won the quarter final against Haarhuis, before losing to Courier in the semi final.

 

[duaneeo]

Djokovic had a cupcake draw.
The semifinal had 4 players in their 30s.
Like in 2014 and 2015 before facing Federer, Djokovic faced a mug in the semis.
It took a choke from Federer for Djokovic to win the title.

2019 Wimbledon is the perfect ending to the sad story of 2010s Wimbledon.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

Another thing that should lessen the hurt for Fed fans is that even had he won #21, Rafa still would have passed him in the slam race. Presumably Novak will too at some point.

Its not so much the slam race, its the consequences this has for his Wimbledon record. It would have been 9-6 now and he would be safe. As it is its 8-7 and Djokovic is likely to at least equal it. That is what hurts the most for me.

 

[bigbadboaz]

It's also the fact closing that type of a victory at 37 would have kept him GOAT in many people's eyes even if Rafa/Djoker passed him slightly in numbers. The way things actually stand, you really can't make that case anymore.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

At age 39 he beat Nadal and came within a point against Djokovic . Let us have perspective

lol. He wasn't 39, he was 37

 

[abmk]

FWIW, he did save MP's to extend the 2008 Wimbledon Final to a fifth set (if memory serves correct).

He saved 1 CP in the 4th set tiebreak. They were the best 2 points of the match probably, i.e. Nadal's down the line forehand to get to championship point, and Federer's down the line backhand to save championship point.

2 MPs in 4th set TB.

Roger Federer

1‑2

6‑6

6‑7

1st serve wide, service winner.

Rafael Nadal

2‑1

6‑6

8‑7

1st serve wide; backhand slice return crosscourt (shallow); forehand approach shot crosscourt; backhand down the line, winner. (4-shot rally)

2008 Wimbledon F: Roger Federer vs Rafael Nadal Detailed Stats | Tennis Abstract

www.tennisabstract.com

Moreover, I don't think the MP's he lost against Nole in 3 slams (US 2010, 2011, and Wimbledon 2019) were the most egregious examples of choking. Nole deserves some credit for some good returns. Although I think Fed should've served once to the body against Nole in the 2019 MP's.

2010 USO wasn't choking, but USO 11 and Wim 19 definitely were.
Federer hitting a forehand out (net cord) on MP and a DF on BP in USO 2011 isn't credit to Djokovic
Neither is fed being cr*p in 3 TBs and a very questionable approach on MP in 2019 Wim.

 

[abmk]

Djokovic was never behind on the scoreboard (actually broke first in the 5th) except when Federer broke and served for the match. The right person won that day likewise with the 2009 final.

Except Federer lead in most categories in Wim 2009 final
As he did in Wim 2019 final

 

[abmk]

The only good thing and lucky for Federer that day was Djokovic was far below his peak in that final and it became epic because of that.

The only one lucky was Djokovic was who was ultra mega super duper lucky.
Unbelievable luck that he got 3 bad TBs from fed. Chance of that is like less than 1%.
Unbelievable luck that Djokovic could save 2 MPs on fed's serve.

Djokovic was 32+. you expecting him to be at near his peak is just foolishness/rubbish. That is Djokovic's on par level at Wim post Wim 2018.
Djokovic has been vulturing slams left right after AO 19 with well below par competition and well below prime (not peak) level. (Except for RG 21 which had good enough competition)

An absolute disgrace that a Djokovic fan (or should I say fanatic) is trying to say Fed was the one lucky in Wim 19. Do you have any shame whatsoever? any shame?
bah!

 

[abmk]

Another thing that should lessen the hurt for Fed fans is that even had he won #21, Rafa still would have passed him in the slam race. Presumably Novak will too at some point.

Djoko would be at 20 in that case.
One slam less than Nadal is more than covered higher # of weeks at #1/YECs and 9 fricking Wimbledons
Also beating Nadal+Djokovic b2b in a slam at nearly 38 would be an absolute phenomenal feat.

 

[abmk]

No, still Nadal and Djokovic will be valued the same. Federer may have an additional highlight in his resume, which does not alter his resume significantly and in any case he went on to defeat Djoker at the YEC. All good.

Djokovic would have gone a little down.
20 slams with 6 Wimbledons.

instead of an absolute disgrace to the game 7th Wimbledon (as it is - 6 is atleast 1 more than what he should have)

 

[abmk]

Look at it this way. Federer won a lot in his career. Imagine what it's like for Coria, or Roddick failing to win Wimbledon.

I agree with the essence of this.
But Coria has himself to blame to a significant extent.
Roddick OTOH with Wim 09 and WIm 04 was sorely unlucky to not win a Wimbledon.

I'd throw in players like Nalbandian, Soderling, Tsonga, Mecir, Scud, Berdych, Curren etc. who were good enough and yet failed to win a slam.

Atleast Cash, Krajicek, Stich, Korda, Ivanisevic, Cilic, Thiem, Med etc. have 1 slam each.

 

[Krish0608]

It’s not that big of a deal really. It was over long back. Was a damn shame at that time. But really does not matter in the larger scheme of things except maybe in the TTW echo chambers

 

[abmk]

Anyways the match ending was just sad, not just for Fed fans, but from tennis point of view.
The worse player won getting lucky with some massive choking (yeah, some clutchness was involved at 40-15, but that's about it)
I mean if Djokovic had held on to his break advantage in the 5th set, atleast he'd have won one set with a break advantage and 2 TBs. It'd be less worse.

Not going to pretend it doesn't matter. It does. But in the overall picture ->

In any case, doesn't change that fed's the clearly superior player at Wim ( 7 Wimbledons at prime-ish+ level to only 4 for Djoko)
Doesn't erase Fed's win over Nadal in the semi at nearly 38.

Doesn't change that fed's the best player of all time - at peak, at prime and overall.
Doesn't change that shotmaking at his level consistently is unparalleled.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Anyways the match ending was just sad, not just for Fed fans, but from tennis point of view.
The worse player won getting lucky with some massive choking (yeah, some clutchness was involved at 40-15, but that's about it)
I mean if Djokovic had held on to his break advantage in the 5th set, atleast he'd have won one set with a break advantage and 2 TBs. It'd be less worse.

In any case, doesn't change that fed's the clearly superior player at Wim ( 7 Wimbledons at prime-ish+ level to only 4 for Djoko)
Doesn't erase Fed's win over Nadal in the semi at nearly 38.

Doesn't change that fed's the best player of all time - at peak, at prime and overall.

 

[abmk]

Fed has no one to blame but himself for the Wimbledon 2019 loss. Throughout his career he was a superlative tiebreak player but he lost all 3 TB’s in the match. Djokovic played the big points better throughout the 5 hours.

He should have put the match away in 4 sets, but was tentative on some huge points. It should never have even gotten to a fifth set and 40-15.

agree mostly.
Only I'd change that Djokovic played the big points less worse. or fed played the big points worse. because apart from at 40-15, Djokovic didn't really do that great on the big points.

Fed was up 5-3 in the 1st set TB and hit 3 easy FH UEs from there on.
Should've won that TB and wrapped up the match in 4 sets.

 

[mike danny]

Fed has no one to blame but himself for the Wimbledon 2019 loss. Throughout his career he was a superlative tiebreak player but he lost all 3 TB’s in the match. Djokovic played the big points better throughout the 5 hours.

He should have put the match away in 4 sets, but was tentative on some huge points. It should never have even gotten to a fifth set and 40-15.

Such losses happen with age. Even Nadal, the supposedly tougher player mentally, lost a match through 3 tiebreak sets and against a worse opponent to boot as well.

 

[mike danny]

Tough losses happen. They've all had them.

Even Nadal has lost 2 slam finals from a break up in the 5th and without the Trash Gen he would've never won the DCGS and thus those losses would look even worse now.

 

[mike danny]

The only one lucky was Djokovic was who was ultra mega super duper lucky.
Unbelievable luck that he got 3 bad TBs from fed. Chance of that is like less than 1%.

This. It still baffles me how people can't see this. If it's so easy for Djokovic to go into lockdown mode in tiebreaks and win, why couldn't he do that in the 2014 and 2015 finals when he was better? It's clearly not only about Djokovic as people make it out to be.

 

[Slicehand]

I dwell a lot, its one of the worst things that ever happened to me, my life was perfect until that point, then it all went crumbling down, never been the same since, now im on three grams of H per day, i dont shower, my girfriend is a woman with no teeth, its all much worse, i used to drive a ferrari for gods shake

 

[mike danny]

I dwell a lot, its one of the worst things that ever happened to me, my life was perfect until that point, then it all went crumbling down, never been the same since, now im on three grams of H per day, i dont shower, my girfriend is a woman with no teeth, its all much worse, i used to drive a ferrari for gods shake

 

[StrongRule]

Tough losses happen. They've all had them.

Even Nadal has lost 2 slam finals from a break up in the 5th and without the Trash Gen he would've never won the DCGS and thus those losses would look even worse now.

Djokovic didn't. The fact his fans cry over matches which he was never supposed to win says it all.

 

[abmk]

This. It still baffles me how people can't see this. If it's so easy for Djokovic to go into lockdown mode in tiebreaks and win, why couldn't he do that in the 2014 and 2015 finals when he was better? It's clearly not only about Djokovic as people make it out to be.

there was zero lockdown from djoko in the 1st and 3rd set TBs anyways (not rewatching the 5th).
1st in particular wasn't even that solid from djoko. it was meh. fed was up 5-3 and hit 3 fairly simple FH UEs (apart from hitting another FH UE earlier on)
3rd set TB was solid from djoko, but no lockdown. he needed 4 fairly simple BH UEs from fed.

lets not forget Djoko lost the 2 TBs in RG 2011 semi and the 1 TB in USO 11 semi (did win the TB in AO 11 semi though) and this was in his best year.

Their h2h in slam TBs was 8-4 to fed before Wim 19 final (though overall TB record was close).
6-2 to fed before Wim 14 final.

 

[mike danny]

Djokovic didn't. The fact his fans cry over matches which he was never supposed to win says it all.

He's had tough losses.

USO 2012 F: clawed his way back up from 2-0 down to force a 5th and throws in a stinker of a set.

USO 2013 F: up a break in the 3rd, lost the advantage, had 0-40 and failed to convert, gets broken immediately to lose the set and throws in a stinker in the 4th set winning just one game.

AO 2014 QF: up a break in the 5th, loses the advantage and botches the easiest of volleys on MP.

FO 2015 F.

USO 2021 F: in the biggest match of his career, he throws in an absolute stinker against Medvedev of all people.

And the supposed mental GOAT also lost all of his GS matches against Stan after winning the first set.

Double faulted on CP twice against Nadal in slam finals.

He's not infallible.

 

[StrongRule]

there was zero lockdown from djoko in the 1st and 3rd set TBs anyways (not rewatching the 5th).
1st in particular wasn't even that solid from djoko. it was meh. fed was up 5-3 and hit 3 fairly simple FH UEs (apart from hitting another FH UE earlier on)
3rd set TB was solid from djoko, but no lockdown. he needed 4 fairly simple BH UEs from fed.

lets not forget Djoko lost the 2 TBs in RG 2011 semi and the 1 TB in USO 11 semi (did win the TB in AO 11 semi though) and this was in his best year.

It shouldn't be too surprising that the mentally stronger player (at this stage of their careers) was better in tiebreaks. Last time when Federer won a tiebreak against Djokovic was in Cincinnati 2015, since then it is 6-0 to Djokovic.

 

[mike danny]

there was zero lockdown from djoko in the 1st and 3rd set TBs anyways (not rewatching the 5th).
1st in particular wasn't even that solid from djoko. it was meh. fed was up 5-3 and hit 3 fairly simple FH UEs (apart from hitting another FH UE earlier on)
3rd set TB was solid from djoko, but no lockdown. he needed 4 fairly simple BH UEs from fed.

lets not forget Djoko lost the 2 TBs in RG 2011 semi and the 1 TB in USO 11 semi (did win the TB in AO 11 semi though) and this was in his best year.

Yeah, Fed losing 3 tiebreaks in one match is just an anomaly and doesn't say anything about his mental strength. Guy was able to pull out clutch tiebreaks against Djokovic and Nadal in the past.

 

[abmk]

Yeah, Fed losing 3 tiebreaks in one match is just an anomaly and doesn't say anything about his mental strength. Guy was able to pull out clutch tiebreaks against Djokovic and Nadal in the past.

Their h2h in slam TBs was 8-4 to fed before Wim 19 final (though overall TB record was near even).
6-2 to fed before Wim 14 final.

 

[mike danny]

It shouldn't be too surprising that the mentally stronger player (at this stage of their careers) was better in tiebreaks. Last time when Federer won a tiebreak against Djokovic was in Cincinnati 2015, since then it is 6-0 to Djokovic.

But that was an anomaly, nothing more.

Was Thiem mentally stronger than Nadal at that stage of their careers when Nadal lost 5 straight tiebreaks to him?

 

[StrongRule]

But that was an anomaly, nothing more.

Was Thiem mentally stronger than Nadal at that stage of their careers when Nadal lost 5 straight tiebreaks to him?

In 2020 yes, he was. Nadal was awful on big points in these 2 matches. This is what made the difference, by the level of play he wasn't worse than Thiem.

 

[abmk]

It shouldn't be too surprising that the mentally stronger player (at this stage of their careers) was better in tiebreaks. Last time when Federer won a tiebreak against Djokovic was in Cincinnati 2015, since then it is 6-0 to Djokovic.

its basically 2 matches - Paris 18 and Wim 19.
No way would anyone bet on fed losing all 3 TBs at a slam, especially frickin Wimbledon anyways. 2 out of 3? possible.
2 out of 2? maybe.
3 of 3 is just sheer luck for Djokovic.

 

[mike danny]

its basically 2 matches - Paris 18 and Wim 19.
No way would anyone bet on fed losing all 3 TBs at a slam, especially frickin Wimbledon anyways. 2 out of 3? possible.
2 out of 2? maybe.
3 of 3 is just sheer luck for Djokovic.

Before Wimb 2019 Fed had never lost 2 tiebreaks in one slam match, so yeah, sheer luck for Djokovic.

 

[mahatma]

The only one lucky was Djokovic was who was ultra mega super duper lucky.
Unbelievable luck that he got 3 bad TBs from fed. Chance of that is like less than 1%.
Unbelievable luck that Djokovic could save 2 MPs on fed's serve.

Djokovic was 32+. you expecting him to be at near his peak is just foolishness/rubbish. That is Djokovic's on par level at Wim post Wim 2018.
Djokovic has been vulturing slams left right after AO 19 with well below par competition and well below prime (not peak) level. (Except for RG 21 which had good enough competition)

An absolute disgrace that a Djokovic fan (or should I say fanatic) is trying to say Fed was the one lucky in Wim 19. Do you have any shame whatsoever? any shame?
bah!

I understand the loss has hurt you. If it helps you to cope that Federer was the better player that day. Use that.

But being clutch on important points is not down to luck. No wonder Federer fans never were able to understand the difference between clutch and luck

 

[mike danny]

Djokovic didn't. The fact his fans cry over matches which he was never supposed to win says it all.

For all the talk about Djokovic being mentally tougher than Federer, he's lost as many slam finals as the Swiss. And at one point only won 1 of the last 9 slams played. He's not the mental GOAT people portray him to be.

 

[StrongRule]

He's had tough losses.

USO 2012 F: clawed his way back up from 2-0 down to force a 5th and throws in a stinker of a set.

USO 2013 F: up a break in the 3rd, lost the advantage, had 0-40 and failed to convert, gets broken immediately to lose the set and throws in a stinker in the 4th set winning just one game.

AO 2014 QF: up a break in the 5th, loses the advantage and botches the easiest of volleys on MP.

FO 2015 F.

USO 2021 F: in the biggest match of his career, he throws in an absolute stinker against Medvedev of all people.

And the supposed mental GOAT also lost all of his GS matches against Stan after winning the first set.

Double faulted on CP twice against Nadal in slam finals.

He's not infallible.

The matches you have mentioned are not really comparable to some of the losses which Federer and Nadal had, they weren't that close. (some of them were even in straight sets) Only against Wawrinka in AO 2014 it was indeed a close fifth set. But Djokovic was pretty lucky to beat him in 2013, and then beat him in 2015 again.

And by the way, Djokovic lost only 3 matches in his career from matchpoints up. And at least in two of them he never had any chances to convert the matchpoints, he didn't choke on them.

 

[mahatma]

there was zero lockdown from djoko in the 1st and 3rd set TBs anyways (not rewatching the 5th).
1st in particular wasn't even that solid from djoko. it was meh. fed was up 5-3 and hit 3 fairly simple FH UEs (apart from hitting another FH UE earlier on)
3rd set TB was solid from djoko, but no lockdown. he needed 4 fairly simple BH UEs from fed.

lets not forget Djoko lost the 2 TBs in RG 2011 semi and the 1 TB in USO 11 semi (did win the TB in AO 11 semi though) and this was in his best year.

Their h2h in slam TBs was 8-4 to fed before Wim 19 final (though overall TB record was close).
6-2 to fed before Wim 14 final.

hahaha.. from 5-3 on - they are 3 fairly simple FH, esp the 5-4 and 5-5 one. ROFL.

Quite conveniently, Federer fans live in their own dreamworld.

 

[abmk]

I understand the loss has hurt you. If it helps you to cope that Federer was the better player that day. Use that.

But being clutch on important points in not down to luck. No wonder Federer fans never were able to understand the difference between clutch and luck

just putting ball back into play while other player is hitting UFEs not being clutch.
clutch means you have to do something good enough.
when federer hits 4 UFEs each in both TBs, djokovic not even doing anything that that good, that's djokovic getting ultra lucky.

No wonder DJokovic obsessed fans like you with your ignorance/simping for Djokovic make TTW worse.
I understand you are just trying to cover up Djokovic's super luck/mega vulturing. Be better.

Just to school you more on clutchness: Djokovic's pass on MP in 5th set was clutch, but not the play in the TBs.
Clutch is when federer broke back with a great return game with djoko serving at 6-5 in RG 2011 semi
clutch is when federer took it to Nadal with great shotmaking in Wim 07 final 5th set, AO 17 final 5th set
clutch is Djoko's serving in AO 08 semi.
clutch is nadal bringing out his very best in the 5th set of RG 13 semi after being a break down (due to hangover of 4th set loss)

just being meh in 1st set TB and merely solid in 3rd set TB by Djokovic in Wim 19 final does not qualify as being clutch by any good standards

 

[abmk]

hahaha.. from 5-3 on - they are 3 fairly simple FH, esp the 5-4 and 5-5 one. ROFL.

Quite conveniently, Federer fans live in their own dreamworld.

you live in your Djoko fairy land where he hasn't mega vultured thanks to 2 loser gens of Nishi/Rao/Dimi and Zve/Med/Tsit
and you tried to mix in ferrer and tsonga in those 2 generations when I never even remotely suggested their names, let alone actually naming them. Have some integrity man.

Yes, all 3 FH misses from fed (& a BH miss) in the 1st set TB were fairly simple, unless you have Djokovic painted glasses on.

Wim 19 final TB:

1st set TB: 1-1, fed misses an easy FH point
5-3: horrible FH CC miss from fed
5-4: another bad FH CC miss from fed
5-6: BH CC miss (deep to an extent)

that's a blown TB, alright