Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

McEnroeisanartist

Hall of Fame
Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

Federer's 15 Semifinals, 10 finals, and 6 championships there for Federer is massive.
 

hipolymer

Hall of Fame
Of course, Ton--I mean Rafuh decides which tournaments will have all-time significance and which ones won't.
He did it with the Olympic games, he did it with WTF
 

Tenez101

Hall of Fame
No, but losing the BO5 set final hurt it. The Olypmics was best of 5 too and it looks like they changed it to BO3. At this rate I won't be surprised when the slams become BO3 :cry:
It could happen if this forced equality between the men and women continues.
 

Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
Well, having an ATG like Rafa not present in the finals gives less big matches. So obviously it plays a role. Wish they changed up the surface too.
 

The Blond Blur

Hall of Fame
I'm just sick of the O2 Arena. The lighting in there is terrible and the players look like they have some sort of skin condition. I liked having it in Madison Square Garden, but unfortunately tennis is no where near significant enough in the US now :confused: I also liked having it in Shangai. I'm just ready for a change in venue. 2021 can't come soon enough.
 
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NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
If it has less significance because it's BO3 then what does that mean for Rafa's Masters record? It's also harder to win than any Masters for the obvious reason.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
Ah, Fed haters at it again. "Exho". Just the Top 8 and worth 1500 points. Its considered as the "Indoor Slam". Nadal's poor record there is why Fed will have the edge in the GOAT debate. Fed currently rules Grass, HC and Indoor.
 

Tenez101

Hall of Fame
I'm just sick of the O2 Arena. The lighting in there is terrible and the players look like they have some sort of skin condition. I liked having it in Madison Square Graden, but unfortunately tennis is no where near significant enough in the US now :confused: I also liked having it in Shangai. I'm just ready for a change in venue. 2021 can't come soon enough.
O2 just contributes to the exhibition feel. MSG in the past made it feel like tge heavyweight championship of the world, amazing atmosphere.
 

Robert F

Semi-Pro
Agree with others and Rafa's participation hasn't had a major effect on its importance.

It's hit by its venue, format and being the end of a season that felt done 2 months beforehand.

Conceptually, it seems like a great idea--best players play each other in round robin so you are guaranteed some classic match ups. But with players fatigued and already setting their eyes on Australia it is clear they don't value it as much and hence don't take the same risk and intensity they do at the slams.
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
Everything after the US Open and before the Australian Open is insignificant.

The real tennis season ended yesterday.

WTF is a joke, no real tennis tourney let's someone lose and still be able to win it,

#FakeTourney
 
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AceSalvo

Legend
The WTF is indoor HC. Not just "indoor".
But there is not other HC event worth 1500 besides the slams. Its 500 closer to a slam. So its close to an Indoor Slam than just a regular HC event.

I won't be surprised if Fed haters cannot comprehend this. Infact, I am not surprised at all.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Nadal’s a bum on indoor hardcourt which is why he can’t win. His one dimensional style of play does not work as effectively there. Hes incapable of taking the ball on the rise and his serve and return are garbage. Indoor hard is not a pushers surface.
 

Crisstti

Legend
But there is not other HC event worth 1500 besides the slams. Its 500 closer to a slam. So its close to an Indoor Slam than just a regular HC event.

I won't be surprised if Fed haters cannot comprehend this.
My point is it is still a hard court event. Which is also indoors.
 
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AceSalvo

Legend
My point is it is still a hard court even. Which is also indoors.
And my point is still Fed rules the Indoors. You just picked the wrong fight thinking you are all correct.

Dont forget, Nadal lost Wimb18 SF only because it was "Indoors" according to popular opinion. LOL, hope thats a bone to chew on.
 

Crisstti

Legend
And my point is still Fed rules the Indoors. You just picked the wrong fight thinking you are all correct.

Dont forget, Nadal lost Wimb18 SF only because it was "Indoors" according to popular opinion. LOL, hope thats a bone to chew on.
He rules the indoors... hard courts. As does Novak.

I've never subscribed to that Wimbledon theory btw. Seems too speculative. Absurd as it was to play the match indoors.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
I'm just sick of the O2 Arena. The lighting in there is terrible and the players look like they have some sort of skin condition. I liked having it in Madison Square Graden, but unfortunately tennis is no where near significant enough in the US now :confused: I also liked having it in Shangai. I'm just ready for a change in venue. 2021 can't come soon enough.
I was so bummed when they extended it.

Thankfully there's finally light at the end of the tunnel.
 

Azure

Legend
The WTF is played far too late in the season. Infact I don't think I have ever been too keen on the season after the USO. In a sense the tennis season is already over. The WTF has value, of course, but is not in the league of the slams. The average person will not remember number of masters, number of WTFs etc (although thats a hole in Rafa's resume for sure). Slams matter the most and the general dominance over a number of years, at least to popular media.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Nadal has had trouble getting through the year, but that is a minor cross for him to bear.

It hardly diminishes the tournament.
 

timnz

Legend
Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

Federer's 15 Semifinals, 10 finals, and 6 championships there for Federer is massive.
Federer, Djokovic - have 11 titles between them. Why would Nadal's 0 on his resume, affect the reputation of the event?
 

mahesh69a

Semi-Pro
A champion with 20 slams (considered the greatest by many past and present greats) has only one one at FO - does that diminish FO?
 
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Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
Rafa not winning WTF is not the main cause of the event's lost significance. But WTF no longer has the prominence it once did.

En masse the players just don't feel the same as they used to about the year end event, and it is struggling for relevance. The exhibition season is lucrative. Most players don't want to be stuck in London when they can be playing a more relaxed exhibition event with a format of their choosing somewhere more exotic for more money.

The off season is so short and Australian Open preparation is so important. Again, why be stuck in London when everyone else is getting a step ahead on their recovery / training block prep work or resting injuries.

The o2 iteration of the WTF event was a cash cow for the ATP, but they overstayed. The o2 "style" of molasses slow indoor hardcourts, cold neon blue lighting and players exhausted from a hectic season has made the event pretty boring to watch.

The ATP putting 1500 ranking points on this event is a form of life support. No one would touch it otherwise.

As much as I love the idea of seeing the WTF come back to life in Turin, I partly wonder if the busy calendar, short off-season and Australian Open's raised significance so early in the year have made a season end style event feel slightly redundant.
 
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