Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

[McEnroeisanartist]

Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

Federer's 15 Semifinals, 10 finals, and 6 championships there for Federer is massive.

 

[Tenez101]

Best of 3 final has made it essentially an exhibition.

 

[hipolymer]

Of course, Ton--I mean Rafuh decides which tournaments will have all-time significance and which ones won't.
He did it with the Olympic games, he did it with WTF

 

[The Blond Blur]

No, but losing the BO5 set final hurt it. The Olypmics was best of 5 too and it looks like they changed it to BO3. At this rate I won't be surprised when the slams become BO3

 

[Tenez101]

No, but losing the BO5 set final hurt it. The Olypmics was best of 5 too and it looks like they changed it to BO3. At this rate I won't be surprised when the slams become BO3

It could happen if this forced equality between the men and women continues.

 

[The Blond Blur]

It could happen if this forced equality between the men and women continues.

Or we could change the women's game to BO5

 

[Tenez101]

Or we could change the women's game to BO5

I would like to see that.

 

[AlexanderTheGreat08]

Exho

 

[ibbi]

No, I think changing the final to best of three, and guys constantly pulling out has lessened the significance. The fact it's no longer in the Garden taking it out of the biggest media market in the world probably hasn't helped its case either.

 

[mistik]

It isnt a Rafa thing.It is very late in the season and most off the time tennis quality isnt even all that great.I never considered WTF huge thing even in 90s.For me there are more prestigious MASTERS than WTF.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Well, having an ATG like Rafa not present in the finals gives less big matches. So obviously it plays a role. Wish they changed up the surface too.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I'm just sick of the O2 Arena. The lighting in there is terrible and the players look like they have some sort of skin condition. I liked having it in Madison Square Garden, but unfortunately tennis is no where near significant enough in the US now I also liked having it in Shangai. I'm just ready for a change in venue. 2021 can't come soon enough.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

Federer's 15 Semifinals, 10 finals, and 6 championships there for Federer is massive.

For Rafa fans, yes, absolutely.

 

[NoleFam]

If it has less significance because it's BO3 then what does that mean for Rafa's Masters record? It's also harder to win than any Masters for the obvious reason.

 

[AceSalvo]

Ah, Fed haters at it again. "Exho". Just the Top 8 and worth 1500 points. Its considered as the "Indoor Slam". Nadal's poor record there is why Fed will have the edge in the GOAT debate. Fed currently rules Grass, HC and Indoor.

 

[Tenez101]

I'm just sick of the O2 Arena. The lighting in there is terrible and the players look like they have some sort of skin condition. I liked having it in Madison Square Graden, but unfortunately tennis is no where near significant enough in the US now I also liked having it in Shangai. I'm just ready for a change in venue. 2021 can't come soon enough.

O2 just contributes to the exhibition feel. MSG in the past made it feel like tge heavyweight championship of the world, amazing atmosphere.

 

[Tenez101]

Ah, Fed haters at it again. "Exho". Just the Top 8 and worth 1500 points. Its considered as the "Indoor Slam". Nadal's poor record there is why Fed will have the edge in the GOAT debate. Fed currently rules Grass, HC and Indoor.

It’s an exo. Fed withdrew from the final once for god’s sake.

 

[Tenez101]

Well, having an ATG like Rafa not present in the finals gives less big matches. So obviously it plays a role. Wish they changed up the surface too.

He appeared in the finals, he just got his ass whooped each time. Partly bc he didn’t take it so seriously.

 

[Robert F]

Agree with others and Rafa's participation hasn't had a major effect on its importance.

It's hit by its venue, format and being the end of a season that felt done 2 months beforehand.

Conceptually, it seems like a great idea--best players play each other in round robin so you are guaranteed some classic match ups. But with players fatigued and already setting their eyes on Australia it is clear they don't value it as much and hence don't take the same risk and intensity they do at the slams.

 

[Third Serve]

If it's an exho, that says a lot more about Nadal not being able to win it imo.

So what? Is it difficult to win or is it not? You decide.

 

[BringBackSV]

Ah, Fed haters at it again. "Exho". Just the Top 8 and worth 1500 points. Its considered as the "Indoor Slam". Nadal's poor record there is why Fed will have the edge in the GOAT debate. Fed currently rules Grass, HC and Indoor.

Umm, no lol and indoor is not a surface.

 

[Crisstti]

Ah, Fed haters at it again. "Exho". Just the Top 8 and worth 1500 points. Its considered as the "Indoor Slam". Nadal's poor record there is why Fed will have the edge in the GOAT debate. Fed currently rules Grass, HC and Indoor.

The WTF is indoor HC. Not just "indoor".

 

[Spanglish72]

Everything after the US Open and before the Australian Open is insignificant.

The real tennis season ended yesterday.

WTF is a joke, no real tennis tourney let's someone lose and still be able to win it,

#FakeTourney

 

[Devilito]

It just makes Nadal less significant.

 

[AceSalvo]

The WTF is indoor HC. Not just "indoor".

But there is not other HC event worth 1500 besides the slams. Its 500 closer to a slam. So its close to an Indoor Slam than just a regular HC event.

I won't be surprised if Fed haters cannot comprehend this. Infact, I am not surprised at all.

 

[Ray Mercer]

Nadal’s a bum on indoor hardcourt which is why he can’t win. His one dimensional style of play does not work as effectively there. Hes incapable of taking the ball on the rise and his serve and return are garbage. Indoor hard is not a pushers surface.

 

[Crisstti]

But there is not other HC event worth 1500 besides the slams. Its 500 closer to a slam. So its close to an Indoor Slam than just a regular HC event.

I won't be surprised if Fed haters cannot comprehend this.

My point is it is still a hard court event. Which is also indoors.

 

[AceSalvo]

My point is it is still a hard court even. Which is also indoors.

And my point is still Fed rules the Indoors. You just picked the wrong fight thinking you are all correct.

Dont forget, Nadal lost Wimb18 SF only because it was "Indoors" according to popular opinion. LOL, hope thats a bone to chew on.

 

[Crisstti]

And my point is still Fed rules the Indoors. You just picked the wrong fight thinking you are all correct.

Dont forget, Nadal lost Wimb18 SF only because it was "Indoors" according to popular opinion. LOL, hope thats a bone to chew on.

He rules the indoors... hard courts. As does Novak.

I've never subscribed to that Wimbledon theory btw. Seems too speculative. Absurd as it was to play the match indoors.

 

[MeatTornado]

I'm just sick of the O2 Arena. The lighting in there is terrible and the players look like they have some sort of skin condition. I liked having it in Madison Square Graden, but unfortunately tennis is no where near significant enough in the US now I also liked having it in Shangai. I'm just ready for a change in venue. 2021 can't come soon enough.

I was so bummed when they extended it.

Thankfully there's finally light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Azure]

The WTF is played far too late in the season. Infact I don't think I have ever been too keen on the season after the USO. In a sense the tennis season is already over. The WTF has value, of course, but is not in the league of the slams. The average person will not remember number of masters, number of WTFs etc (although thats a hole in Rafa's resume for sure). Slams matter the most and the general dominance over a number of years, at least to popular media.

 

[AceSalvo]

He rules the indoors... hard courts. As does Novak.

Well, that will be another problem for Nadal when Djoko gets to #19.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I was so bummed when they extended it.

Thankfully there's finally light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Bartelby]

Nadal has had trouble getting through the year, but that is a minor cross for him to bear.

It hardly diminishes the tournament.

 

[ChaelAZ]

It's never been significant to me. Just another added exo for the tour to make money.

 

[timnz]

Anyone else feel like Nadal's poor record at the ATP Tour Finals has made the tournament less significance?

Federer's 15 Semifinals, 10 finals, and 6 championships there for Federer is massive.

Federer, Djokovic - have 11 titles between them. Why would Nadal's 0 on his resume, affect the reputation of the event?

 

[mahesh69a]

A champion with 20 slams (considered the greatest by many past and present greats) has only one one at FO - does that diminish FO?

 

[Subway Tennis]

Rafa not winning WTF is not the main cause of the event's lost significance. But WTF no longer has the prominence it once did.

En masse the players just don't feel the same as they used to about the year end event, and it is struggling for relevance. The exhibition season is lucrative. Most players don't want to be stuck in London when they can be playing a more relaxed exhibition event with a format of their choosing somewhere more exotic for more money.

The off season is so short and Australian Open preparation is so important. Again, why be stuck in London when everyone else is getting a step ahead on their recovery / training block prep work or resting injuries.

The o2 iteration of the WTF event was a cash cow for the ATP, but they overstayed. The o2 "style" of molasses slow indoor hardcourts, cold neon blue lighting and players exhausted from a hectic season has made the event pretty boring to watch.

The ATP putting 1500 ranking points on this event is a form of life support. No one would touch it otherwise.

As much as I love the idea of seeing the WTF come back to life in Turin, I partly wonder if the busy calendar, short off-season and Australian Open's raised significance so early in the year have made a season end style event feel slightly redundant.

 

[Tennisbg]

I count it as a little bit bigger than Masters(1500 pts), but in the end its a masters, not a slam.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Finally we see proper and nice trolling. Post-major phase never fails to deliver some fine art on TTW.

 

[Spencer Gore]

It lost its significance decades ago. A glorified indoor exhibition.