Anyone getting wiped out in market fall

[dgold44]

i am losing a ton of money and I am praying the market swings back so I can start dumping some of my funds

If I sell now I would lose all the gains I made over last few yrs

I am middle class and 30 grand has vanished from my account in 10 days

I am too old to move back home
Not very happy

 

[Midaso240]

I haven't got that much invested,but most of my retirement savings are in stocks (I'm still fairly young so it is put in a more aggressive fund) and I might have lost about a grand of late. Not good...

 

[dgold44]

Almost all my money is in funds and I know it has to rebound eventually, somewhat

 

[JoelDali]

So you had around 450,000 and now you have around 420,000?

You're gonna be ok champ. They love to scare old people and keeping the rest of us on our toes.

Too big to fail sporto. The numbers are all rigged. They will never wipe out their own wealth. Remember that fact if you remember anything at all. It's not 1929 anymore. But the level of control they have over your mind and the majority of all of our minds, as you have just exposed, is eternal. Just the way they like it.

 

[dgold44]

They did wipe out their own wealth in 2008 when the mortgage/ housing market crashed

Many wealthy became middle class
Many middle class become lower class

Putting your money in bank as cash will earn next to nill

Why just give it to the banks for free ???

 

[KenC]

The party's over and the bill is due. The problem is in a big crash there are few exits and millions looking for them. Smart people have been converting digital and paper value to real value for quite some time now.

 

[Paul Murphy]

I mush prefer direct property investment.
You've got control.
Also not a fan of the market and those who manipulate it.
In many ways the odds are stacked against the ordinary investor.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

The party's over and the bill is due. The problem is in a big crash there are few exits and millions looking for them. Smart people have been converting digital and paper value to real value for quite some time now.

Besides 'Trophy Real Estate' assets which are also rolling over, what exactly is 'real value'?

 

[dgold44]

I usually just do simple index funds like from vanguard or others

 

[dgold44]

I am pretty simple guy
My mom is a financial planner

I am a half brain lol

 

[Paul Murphy]

I am pretty simple guy
My mom is a financial planner

I am a half brain lol

No you're not.
A lot of very smart people are losing money at the moment - you are not alone.
My normal advice is never sell unless you have to ... BUT ... I'm not sure this time.
I can't see where market strength will come from, not right now anyway.
The market basically just shrugged off some good news from China last night and resumed its downward move.
Now there are concerns about the US.
I think they may be more valid than China fears.
Investors and markets need to get used to Chinese growth of 5 per cent - they've become spoiled by eight, nine and tens.
But just saying they need to doesn't mean they will sadly.
Good luck anyway.

 

[dgold44]

No you're not.
A lot of very smart people are losing money at the moment - you are not alone.
My normal advice is never sell unless you have to ... BUT ... I'm not sure this time.
I can't see where market strength will come from, not right now anyway.
The market basically just shrugged off some good news from China last night and resumed its downward move.
Now there are concerns about the US.
I think they may be more valid than China fears.
Investors and markets need to get used to Chinese growth of 5 per cent - they've become spoiled by eight, nine and tens.
But just saying they need to doesn't mean they will sadly.
Good luck anyway.

Soon I will be living in a van down by the river !!!

 

[Paul Murphy]

Soon I will be living in a van down by the river !!!

There are worst places to live.
Is your portfolio balanced or is your entire exposure to shares?

 

[Deleted member 733170]

If things continue to deteriorate the only option policy makers have left is to continue monetary largesse via quantitative easing policies while in tandem opening the fiscal floodgate by lowering taxes and increasing government spending.

I personally think it is inevitable as electorates in the developing world are decrying austerity. Though the 'establishment' may still be ideologically fighting the fiscal largesse option they will have to get there. Expect a period of heightened volatility, a mini 2008 if you like.

If this scenario plays out, so begins a new inflationary cycle and different asset classes will lead the next charge.

 

[dgold44]

I own bond funds and some foreign funds

Yes we all know the market is extremely artificially boosted and way over valued !!!

Mostly because of super low interest rates

 

[dgold44]

I am moving back to Arizona or Nevada in summer from Oregon

 

[Paul Murphy]

If things continue to deteriorate the only option policy makers have left is to continue monetary largesse via quantitative easing policies while in tandem opening the fiscal floodgate by lowering taxes and increasing government spending.

I personally think it is inevitable as electorates in the developing world are decrying austerity. Though the 'establishment' may still be ideologically fighting the fiscal largesse option they will have to get there. Expect a period of heightened volatility, a mini 2008 if you like.

If this scenario plays out, so begins a new inflationary cycle and different asset classes will lead the next charge.

Of course one problem is that interest rates are already so low - options in that area are limited.
I must say the "recovery" has been weak and patchy.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

I own bond funds and some foreign funds

Yes we all know the market is extremely artificially boosted and way over valued !!!

Mostly because of super low interest rates

You sound pretty stressed by all this and it is understandable. No one in the entire world knows how events will play out of the next month, 6 months, year etc.

If these stresses are impacting on your life to the extent you can't sleep, sell 25-30% of your positions to lighten up. You would be playing an even more dangerous game to just pray that things go back unto the level they were a few months back. It is after all conceivable that things could drop much more before they go back up again.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Of course one problem is that interest rates are already so low - options in that area are limited.
I must say the "recovery" has been weak and patchy.

Yes, we are in a liquidity trap. The strong US dollar gives the US a lot of wiggle room however to be much more adventurous on the fiscal side. No other country dares to do this as their currencies are getting smashed and so correspondingly legacy dollar debts are becoming harder to service.

If the US were to lead the charge with dramatic fiscal action other countries would be able to follow to a relatively smaller extent. This is still some way off though as things are not that bad at this exact moment in time to warrant such action. Tomorrow is another day...

 

[Paul Murphy]

Yes, we are in a liquidity trap. The strong US dollar gives the US a lot of wiggle room however to be much more adventurous on the fiscal side. No other country dares to do this as their currencies are getting smashed and so correspondingly legacy dollar debts are becoming harder to service.

If the US were to lead the charge with dramatic fiscal action other countries would be able to follow to a relatively smaller extent. This is still some way off though as things are not that bad at this exact moment in time to warrant such action. Tomorrow is another day...

Are you American?

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Are you American?

Brit!

 

[Paul Murphy]

Brit!

What has the recovery been like there?

 

[Deleted member 733170]

What has the recovery been like there?

Tepid and its rolling over...

Sure some asset classes boomed for a while in the post 08 recovery and beyond but for the average family it's been tough especially for people living outside the Greater London area. London has also become unaffordable for many though there are signs that bubble is coming to an end too.

 

[Paul Murphy]

Tepid and its rolling over...

Sure some asset classes boomed for a while in the post 08 recovery and beyond but for the average family it's been tough especially for people living outside the Greater London area. London has also become unaffordable for many though there are signs that bubble is coming to an end too.

Interesting thanks.
Always put much more store in what real people on the ground say rather than commentators/agencies/governments.
Taxi drivers are perfect for that kind of intel.

 

[Fedinkum]

The basic principle of contemporary share market is Person A (without making any contribution to the society) is making money off Person B's misfortune. Someone's profit is someone else's lost.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Just bet it all on Djokovic to win the Australian Open!

 

[heninfan99]

Maybe the ordinary trader but the ordinary fellow with a managed 401k can't complain. They goosed the market after 2008 for their benefit.
The QEs were 4.5 trillion. At least here in the US.
Now we'll see if they're out of bullets. Crazy times.

I mush prefer direct property investment.
You've got control.
Also not a fan of the market and those who manipulate it.
In many ways the odds are stacked against the ordinary investor.

 

[KenC]

Now we'll see if they're out of bullets. Crazy times.

There is still plenty of ammo, although it isn't necessarily good for the average Joe. There always more QE, negative interest rates, and the new modern financial weapon of mass destruction, the Bank Bail-in. Never underestimate the ability of the greedy to devise even better ways of robbing others of their wealth.

 

[r2473]

I love to see the market drop. Lower prices means I can buy more shares for the same money. I'm not cashing out anytime soon, so lower prices will result in an overall gain down the road.

The ONLY time I want to see the market high is when I'm cashing out.

 

[movdqa]

i am losing a ton of money and I am praying the market swings back so I can start dumping some of my funds

If I sell now I would lose all the gains I made over last few yrs

I am middle class and 30 grand has vanished from my account in 10 days

I am too old to move back home
Not very happy

What happened to your account last August? The lows back then are lower than where we are today.

When did you get in? We've had a monstrous bull market since March 2009 and you should have big gains there. You can never sell at the top and never buy at the bottom so giving up some at the end of a bull market shouldn't be a big deal. BTW, I'm not saying that we're at the end of the bull market.

China has a big problem. They need to devalue their currency by about 15-20 percent to get competitive with their neighbors. They devalued by 0.5% and global markets fall apart. The reversed direction a bit starting this week which has helped but global markets are still jittery. Global commodity deflation is a huge problem. The US has been doing reasonably well but the drag effect of most of the rest of the world has been pulling us down. Our strong area has been employment growth but it may become a problem if we continue to get dragged by global events.

My son has money in a 403b. I convinced him to put it there as he has a very long time horizon and he's dollar-cost-averaging. He also has a lot of cash in a savings account earning 0.85%. I've advised him to wait for the next crash which I expect in 3-5 years.

We're in the third-phase of the bull market. The easy money was made in the first two phases and it gets a lot harder from here to the crash. I would advise a value approach but that takes a lot of work finding individual stocks that have growth potential that are reasonably priced.

 

[Mr.Lob]

Soon I will be living in a van down by the river !!!

Was just watching a documentary on the life of Chris Farley the other night. That was a great line from one of his funniest S.N.L skits. I used that very line joking in an email to my brother last night. A friend was warning of a collapse and the danger of keeping your money in a bank.

 

[heninfan99]

Good advice.

I've advised him to wait for the next crash which I expect in 3-5 years.

 

[Steady Eddy]

Do Not follow the stock market day-to-day. Put money in there for long time periods and it becomes a safe, high yield investment. A janitor named Ronald Read followed this advice and died with an $ 8 million estate! Sometimes, his portfolio had decreased by 50%, he just waited it out.

Whatever you do, don't sell in a panic after a drop, then buy back in when stock prices are high. That's selling low and buying high.

The media pumps this stuff up too much. You say you're only middle aged, time is on your side. Do nothing and take it easy.

 

[dgold44]

I am going to wait for just a semi rebound and switch some funds back to cash

I will just keep my index funds after and few foreign funds

Remember some funds you cannot get back to if they are closed ; so it's best to just leave a few thousand incase u come back to them

 

[movdqa]

Do Not follow the stock market day-to-day. Put money in there for long time periods and it becomes a safe, high yield investment. A janitor named Ronald Read followed this advice and died with an $ 8 million estate! Sometimes, his portfolio had decreased by 50%, he just waited it out.

Whatever you do, don't sell in a panic after a drop, then buy back in when stock prices are high. That's selling low and buying high.

The media pumps this stuff up too much. You say you're only middle aged, time is on your side. Do nothing and take it easy.

I think that Read was a value investor though. He put some effort into picking his stocks. I don't think that there was the level of global Central Bank manipulation of markets back when he did the bulk of his trading.

Results can be really magnified by the 18-year secular bull market from 1982 - 2000.

 

[movdqa]

I am going to wait for just a semi rebound and switch some funds back to cash

I will just keep my index funds after and few foreign funds

Remember some funds you cannot get back to if they are closed ; so it's best to just leave a few thousand incase u come back to them

I haven't been in a mutual fund for many years. ETFs have a lot of attractive attibutes relative to mutual funds unless you're sure that you want your funds actively managed.

 

[Midaso240]

I own bond funds and some foreign funds

Yes we all know the market is extremely artificially boosted and way over valued !!!

Mostly because of super low interest rates

Yes,I noticed the interest rates on my savings have fallen,but it is still several times more than what I could get in the US (I live in NZ). Can anyone explain why this is? I'm no financial expert...

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I seriously doubt anything like 2008 will happen again. That was just the house of cards based on runaway house buying falling down. At least in the US, I think this one might just be a temporary correction that only people who have enough money to care and not enough money to not give a sheet will worry about.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yes,I noticed the interest rates on my savings have fallen,but it is still several times more than what I could get in the US (I live in NZ). Can anyone explain why this is? I'm no financial expert...

I am no expert either. Does New Zealand have a central bank? The interest rates that banks offer you normally parallel the interest rate set by the central bank, as individual banks could be thought of as "resellers" of money in that case.

BTW, if New Zealand has a central bank, is its headquarters in a strip mall, sharing a spot with a South Korean Nail Salon?

 

[Dolgopolov85]

China has a big problem. They need to devalue their currency by about 15-20 percent to get competitive with their neighbors. They devalued by 0.5% and global markets fall apart.

Apart from roiling global markets, devaluation leads to further outflows of funds out of China. Their reserves, although humongous, are depleting at some alarming rate. They have handled the stock market crash very badly with panicky reactions like trying to stop certain classes of investors from selling, which have only fueled more pandemonium. Basically, everybody finds themselves with limited options having followed divergent fiscal policy since 2008. It was a fundamentally bad idea to have developed nations push through austerity with developing nations taking up the tab of spending as it has only led to nations getting caught with limited options. In India we can't increase spending too much because inflation is still running high and at the same time there is no demand from the developed nations so we do need domestic consumption to pick up. I think there is all the potential for this time to be worse than 2008 because countries have fewer options now to fend themselves.

 

[movdqa]

Yes,I noticed the interest rates on my savings have fallen,but it is still several times more than what I could get in the US (I live in NZ). Can anyone explain why this is? I'm no financial expert...

Interest rates are set by your central bank. If they are higher, then it implies that you have greater inflation to deal with.

 

[movdqa]

Apart from roiling global markets, devaluation leads to further outflows of funds out of China. Their reserves, although humongous, are depleting at some alarming rate. They have handled the stock market crash very badly with panicky reactions like trying to stop certain classes of investors from selling, which have only fueled more pandemonium. Basically, everybody finds themselves with limited options having followed divergent fiscal policy since 2008. It was a fundamentally bad idea to have developed nations push through austerity with developing nations taking up the tab of spending as it has only led to nations getting caught with limited options. In India we can't increase spending too much because inflation is still running high and at the same time there is no demand from the developed nations so we do need domestic consumption to pick up. I think there is all the potential for this time to be worse than 2008 because countries have fewer options now to fend themselves.

2008 was the collapse of an asset bubble so we'd need something similarly sized that's way overvalued without revenues to service debt. Energy is certainly one thing that's scary big with a lot of debt. The folks holding bonds have to be shaking. Arch Coal declared BK. I owned them about 10-13 years ago and they were a big player. Kinder Morgan, the biggest pipeline company in the US is down about 65% - who'd have thought that this income stock would tank like this?

I read the global charts daily and it's somewhat surreal - there are currency, bond, CDS crashes regularly but we don't feel it that much in the US. Does it scare me? Of course! Global deflation is a very scary thing.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

An asset crisis is not imminent in the US (just my educated guess based on reports). But it is possible in China. China is already sitting on a real estate bubble. Just their unsold inventory would be the size of the entire real estate stock of some countries. They have overcapacity in many core industrial sectors too and hiking interest rates will hurt industry further. On the other hand, if they don't, they can't stop capital flight. How China manages the situation will be critical.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I hear a lot of assurances from stock market mavens that China is doing fine. Well, to me, it sounds suspiciously like the "fundamentals have never been better" balderdash they were spouting in 2007. So we'll see. I hope things work out but China did not handle the first test well, viz the stock market crash last year.

 

[Midaso240]

Yes,we have a central bank which sets an Official Cash Rate. I believe it has been lowered a couple of times in the last year,however I do recall them mentioning several times in the past 12 months that inflation is close to zero.

 

[movdqa]

China shouldn't have let their stock market double in a year with retail customers replacing institutional holders. Recipe for disaster as once you have a value reversion, everyone gets mad.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Yup. They actually goaded small investors to put money in the stock market which is a stupid thing to do. What govt encourages growth in speculation over bank deposits?

 

[Steady Eddy]

Yup. They actually goaded small investors to put money in the stock market which is a stupid thing to do. What govt encourages growth in speculation over bank deposits?

If I need the money 6 months from now, put it in the bank and not the stock market. But if you need it 20 years from now, and you put it in a bank you're settling for way too low of a return. Over long periods of time, the stock market is not very risky.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

No disagreement there but you don't move an entire people right into the stock market. There were farmers putting their life's earnings into the stock market bubble, all egged on by the Chinese govt. You should first inculcate the habit of using financial instruments to save and then handle low risk instruments before encouraging investment in stock market which, as you said, takes patient long term investing to get the best out of.

 

[Paul Murphy]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/michael-lewis-the-stock-market-is-rigged-2014-3