Anyone up for some mini tennis warm up?

[user92626]

Waiting for you to show up. A shame you didn’t join a bunch of forum members last Sunday when we met up for the bumblebee fest. Ended up playing a set of dubs. You could’ve taken part in the real competition. You probably could have dominated!

We missed you 4 years ago when a bunch of forum members met up with Matt to play dubs, too. Some really good players, too. TenfanLA, Matt, others as well. Good level dubs. A good player like yourself would have enjoyed the high level competition it seeing as you dominate at your local public court.

Oh cool. When and how was last Sunday meetup announced and organized? I certainly don't mind joining if it's not too much trouble.

Wow, you still remember 4 years ago. That time I actually tried to contact Matt seeing that he would stop by the Costa Mesa center but unfortunately the time didn't work out between us.

PM me if you like a hitting or match playing pal (assuming we're in the same region).

btw, in case you didn't notice, my early post to you was just a play on words from another post, obviously. I thought it was funny and inventive. That's all.

 

[mad dog1]

Oh cool. When and how was last Sunday meetup announced and organized? I certainly don't mind joining if it's not too much trouble.

Wow, you still remember 4 years ago. That time I actually tried to contact Matt seeing that he would stop by the Costa Mesa center but unfortunately the time didn't work out between us.

PM me if you like a hitting or match playing pal (assuming we're in the same region).

btw, in case you didn't notice, my early post to you was just a play on words from another post, obviously. I thought it was funny and inventive. That's all.

I remember 4 yrs ago but I don’t the early post. Lol! Not sure which post you were referring to.

 

[user92626]

Post 19.
Other than a play on words, i thought it's worthwhile if you had the whole lifecycle of tennis. Ie, mini, warm up, match, done.

 

[mad dog1]

Post 19.
Other than a play on words, i thought it's worthwhile if you had the whole lifecycle of tennis. Ie, mini, warm up, match, done.

Sorry. Brain is a little slow right now. Still recovering from a very long Thursday night waiting for the damn videos to finish uploading.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Let me try this a different way. Let me introduce you to my friend Richard. He was #1 in the state in the 40s, then in the 45s. Never hit a topspin shot in his life. Never hit with any lag on either wing. He didn't spend any time thinking about what was going on at contact ... he just ran you from corner to corner until he was taking the balls to the tournament desk. He hit a traditional style fh like McEnroe, flat drive 1hbh ... probably never changed from continental grip the entire match. Why would he want to stand at the service line and hit a brushy shot ... he didn't even do that from the baseline. Maybe he couldn't do it, and if he had learned he would have had 50 trophies at home instead of the 30. You would have needed to hang on to that joy at out-mini ing Richard ... during the next two sets. s

Mini was invented by lag and snappers to feel superior.

clearly there's a mixed opinion on mini...
on one hand, i regularly play with a former ncaa all american, and a 5.0... both who hate mini, think it's stupid
on the other hand, i used to take lessons regularly from a former ATP500 in singles, and ATP20? in dubs - and he swore by mini (most of my mental model about mini is from my lessons with him).

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I guess it’s possible if you can put 90% of your racket’s energy into spin.

That's kinda the point. To get your swing going. With control. I am not a good enough player, let alone a coach, to be able to say why but timing improves after a mini tennis warm up. It ensures you are swinging with a semblance of form rather than flailing wildly in trying to generate power.

 

[ByeByePoly]

clearly there's a mixed opinion on mini...
on one hand, i regularly play with a former ncaa all american, and a 5.0... both who hate mini, think it's stupid
on the other hand, i used to take lessons regularly from a former ATP500 in singles, and ATP20? in dubs - and he swore by mini (most of my mental model about mini is from my lessons with him).

[]

Just trying to throw some shade on the "you just can't do it" slam. Any drill/warmup useful for "brushing up on the ball" is only useful for someone that uses that in their stroke, or wants to add it. The vast majority of adult rec USTA players do not hit topspin strokes (majority of men, almost all women), so when you tell all of them to come to the net for mini ... you have created a target rich environment for "you just can't brush up do it". It would be the same if I did mini with someone with a cr@p 1hbh slice, and I defined mini as co-operative control 1hbh slice drill within the service lines. I would be telling a lot of spinny players "you just can't do it". Lay off the mini bunters ... their tennis was just fine before someone came up with the mini parlor game. Being all mini brushy is about as good a match predictor as juggling skills.

[/]

 

[Hmgraphite1]

[]

Just trying to throw some shade on the "you just can't do it" slam. Any drill/warmup useful for "brushing up on the ball" is only useful for someone that uses that in their stroke, or wants to add it. The vast majority of adult rec USTA players do not hit topspin strokes (majority of men, almost all women), so when you tell all of them to come to the net for mini ... you have created a target rich environment for "you just can't brush up do it". It would be the same if I did mini with someone with a cr@p 1hbh slice, and I defined mini as co-operative control 1hbh slice drill within the service lines. I would be telling a lot of spinny players "you just can't do it". Lay off the mini bunters ... their tennis was just fine before someone came up with the mini parlor game. Being all mini brushy is about as good a match predictor as juggling skills.

[/]

You can practice your "can openers" with mini slice though. You make good point but there are some things you can do with mini and flat/slice, it really builds control. But if you skip it it may help to prevent opponent a good warmup

 

[ByeByePoly]

You can practice your "can openers" with mini slice though. You make good point but there are some things you can do with mini and flat/slice, it really builds control. But if you skip it it may help to prevent opponent a good warmup

Disclaimer: I enjoy the quality jousting with Mr NYTA ... steel on steel baby!!! Also ... when I was still playing USTA, always did mini warm up without complaint if that is what everyone was doing. I do not find mini a useful warm up, and it took away useful warm up time from the baseline. I have no concept of needing to warm up your baseline stroke from somewhere different than the baseline. We just hit easy warm up strokes from the baseline ... worked for 30+ years before mini.

I also think warm up is for matches, and drills are for practice. Using my game as an example of mini brushy drill being more useful for spinny strokes ... 2hbh mini is great for my 2hbh, and pretty useless for my FH. I do not hit a lot of "brush up spinny" FHs ... more flattish drives with ts as required ... some lag but not a lot. On my 2hbh ... bigger range from flattish to spinny ... and bigger lag and bigger racquet head drop. Love me some 2hbh mini brushy drill ... I just don't view it as a warm up.

 

[dominikk1985]

I always did mini tennis as a junior with my practice lessons. There is nothing wrong with some bunts too even modern tennis doesnt just have swing fast an control spin but also feel shots.

I would bunt like 10 balls over and then slowly add RHS and spin. Not a fan of swinging fast right away, start slow and then gradually increase.

Roger federer doesn't start swinging fast either, he doesn't bunt but he hits initially at maybe 50% and then swings faster.

 

[ByeByePoly]

You can practice your "can openers" with mini slice though. You make good point but there are some things you can do with mini and flat/slice, it really builds control. But if you skip it it may help to prevent opponent a good warmup

What's a can opener?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I always did mini tennis as a junior with my practice lessons. There is nothing wrong with some bunts too even modern tennis doesnt just have swing fast an control spin but also feel shots.

I would bunt like 10 balls over and then slowly add RHS and spin. Not a fan of swinging fast right away, start slow and then gradually increase.

Roger federer doesn't start swinging fast either, he doesn't bunt but he hits initially at maybe 50% and then swings faster.

A step in the right direction away from all this "bunt shaming".

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I always did mini tennis as a junior with my practice lessons. There is nothing wrong with some bunts too even modern tennis doesnt just have swing fast an control spin but also feel shots.

I would bunt like 10 balls over and then slowly add RHS and spin. Not a fan of swinging fast right away, start slow and then gradually increase.

Roger federer doesn't start swinging fast either, he doesn't bunt but he hits initially at maybe 50% and then swings faster.

I think there’s some conflicting mental models about “swing fast”.
for me, i’m not talking “swing like it’s a shoulder height sitter”... with a huge backswing, exploding into the ball...
but if there were a backswing meter from 1-5 (think pinball plunger), I start at 1 (at or just before contact) with a full follow through, and work my way to 3 at most... but I do focus on the racquet drop and fast brush through contact.

bunters on the other hand (no/little top) can’t execute a full follow (no matter the backswing) through because they have to intentionally slow their racquet head speed through contact to manage the depth through speed control.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ByeByePoly]

I think there’s some conflicting mental models about “swing fast”.
for me, i’m not talking “swing like it’s a shoulder height sitter”... with a huge backswing, exploding into the ball...
but if there were a backswing meter from 1-5 (think pinball plunger), I start at 1 (at or just before contact) with a full follow through, and work my way to 3 at most... but I do focus on the racquet drop and fast brush through contact.

bunters on the other hand (no/little top) can’t execute a full follow (no matter the backswing) through because they have to intentionally slow their racquet head speed through contact to manage the depth through speed control.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"they have to intentionally slow their racquet head speed through contact to manage the depth through speed control"

Yes ... that is also how they play from the baseline ... hit some shots harder than others.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

"they have to intentionally slow their racquet head speed through contact to manage the depth through speed control"

Yes ... that is also how they play from the baseline ... hit some shots harder than others.

i guess i do that too... maybe the difference is that but being loose and relaxed (letting the racquet lag&snap), i'm letting the racquet do the work... and am able to generate the more rhs from the same amount of effort.
that said, that style of stroke requires quite a bit more practice and timing... and maybe there's a tipping point in rec land, when it's not worth investing in a "lag&snap" style fh,... if you know you're only gonna be practicing 1h a day (or whatever the "tipping point" is).

 

[J011yroger]

Me.

J

 

[Hmgraphite1]

What's a can opener?

One of the club pros used the term to define a shot coming at me which I should have recognized from the opponents swing path, a wide circular 'front' swing creating a short spinny dropper type shot, I got caught away from ball cause it didn't advance after the bounce

 

[J011yroger]

A step in the right direction away from all this "bunt shaming".

Bunting the ball accurately is a skill that actually shows feel and ability.

Especially in good doubles the dink can be devastating.

J

 

[ByeByePoly]

i guess i do that too... maybe the difference is that but being loose and relaxed (letting the racquet lag&snap), i'm letting the racquet do the work... and am able to generate the more rhs from the same amount of effort.
that said, that style of stroke requires quite a bit more practice and timing... and maybe there's a tipping point in rec land, when it's not worth investing in a "lag&snap" style fh,... if you know you're only gonna be practicing 1h a day (or whatever the "tipping point" is).

Here is an example from my game. I hit a lot of dtl FHs. I tend to hit less ts on dtl than cc (both wings). Sometimes I am targeting shorter (service line ... just past), sometimes trying to hit deeper. That is almost all swing speed in my case, because I am not thinking higher/lower over the net (who knows what actually happens subconsciously ... and I have no record of actual net clearance), and I am not hitting shorter with more spin.

I guess thinking about it ... three main ways to control depth/targeting:

1) swing speed
2) spin
3) net clearance

Add to that if I have missed something obvious ... maybe racquet face for some advanced players.

Let's use my wife as a more representative example of adult rec tennis than most of us on this forum. She started playing tennis mid-30s. She played years of 3.5 women's USTA doubles ... went to Nationals once (she would have been 4.0 if she ever played doubles 2-3 times a week). So I have watched a lot of 3.5 ladies 3.5 doubles, and I can't remember one topspin stroke. Surely there were a few, but I can't remember any. You would on occasion see slice (ugly version of it ). So guess what it looks like when you have 4 non-ts, non-lag ladies at the net with mini. The average men's USTA player doesn't look much better stroke wise, even if they move better.

I agree logically the bigger the lag, the better chance for max relaxed arm (at least at start of swing ... seems like measuring at flip into contact might surprise some ... but we can't measure it. I don't think the degree of "arm relaxation" difference in a "decent" stroke is really the issue with mini. For example, you hit big fh lag (I have a pic of that NYTA lag ... impressive). I experimented with flip and bigger lag, and it wasn't for me. Zero lag also wasn't for me ... I had migrated from traditional back fence front fence fh to modern adjacent. Basically ... a see some lag (not sure what qualifies as small flip) in my fh. Now consider McEnroe ... looks like very little lag, if any. We all turned our shoulders, so I would think by any useful measure we are hitting relaxed FHs. But serious question, given Mac's stroke (or substitute Connors) ... what would we expect Mac's brushing up to look like. Obviously the most talented tennis arm/hand in history is going to be able to brush up ... but it won't look like Mad Dogs ... it will be arm brushing without lag.

Someone call McEnroe and get him to post his mini tennis.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Me.

J

You are like me ... more rh drop and lag on your 2hbh than fh. I bet if we go look at your full fh lag from baseline, it's much bigger lag. None of us is beating NYTA fh lag ... dude must be gumpy in the wrist.

 

[ByeByePoly]

One of the club pros used the term to define a shot coming at me which I should have recognized from the opponents swing path, a wide circular 'front' swing creating a short spinny dropper type shot, I got caught away from ball cause it didn't advance after the bounce

Backspin? Sidespin? I am so confused ... sounds like an illegal shot.

 

[Hmgraphite1]

Backspin? Sidespin? I am so confused ... sounds like an illegal shot.

I think it had such major sidespin it just sat there spinning like a top, must of had some backspin too. I remember it now like it was a yoyo with a string attached

 

[FiReFTW]

Me.

J

Dude did you forget your contact lenses at home, how the heck did you frame so many balls in mini tennis

 

[J011yroger]

Dude did you forget your contact lenses at home, how the heck did you frame so many balls in mini tennis

If you aren't framing you aren't close enough to your limit.

J

 

[ByeByePoly]

I think it had such major sidespin it just sat there spinning like a top, must of had some backspin too. I remember it now like it was a yoyo with a string attached

Like I thought ... illegal shot ... violates esthetics clause ... that is your point.

 

[ByeByePoly]

If you aren't framing you aren't close enough to your limit.

J

Gulbis framed a few ... did not ruin his week. He comes pretty close to no drop (hands) on his 2hbh ... stroke looks simple and pure $. I don't love the looks of Medvedev's 2hbh ... but it's $ also.

 

[FiReFTW]

If you aren't framing you aren't close enough to your limit.

J

I must be close to my limit alot of times then

 

[ByeByePoly]

I must be close to my limit alot of times then

Is there one that pisses you off the most? For me right now it's the 2hbh ros because I am working so hard on it. I will get in a little groove and then want to break something when the mishit creeps back in.

 

[J011yroger]

You are like me ... more rh drop and lag on your 2hbh than fh. I bet if we go look at your full fh lag from baseline, it's much bigger lag. None of us is beating NYTA fh lag ... dude must be gumpy in the wrist.

J

 

[FiReFTW]

Is there one that pisses you off the most? For me right now it's the 2hbh ros because I am working so hard on it. I will get in a little groove and then want to break something when the mishit creeps back in.

You mean shanks and misshits? Not really any particular shot, Its mostly that im pretty stubborn when it comes to standing my ground on the baseline.

Im trying to take everything on the rise in order to develop hand eye coordination and the ability to take balls early, which in my opinion is a good idea considering the style of play I want to play, but sometimes the balls are extremely deep and thats when I should really take a step back and sometimes I do, but alot of times I still keep standing my ground and end up half volleying from the basline, so I guess I should expect shanking the ball from time to time.

Last time was funny, I ended up shanking 2 in like 5 mins which doesn't happen usually, and coach was like I need to focus more im not focused enough, and I said hey its not easy taking such spinny deep balls when I keep standing my ground on the baseline!
And she was like blabla I can stand there too and easily do it, so I was taunting her to do it then for a few mins, and then she really did go stand on the baseline and we started hitting and after like 5 hits she was like see its easy and then shanked the 7th ball or so, it was pretty funny

 

[FiReFTW]

J

Incredible Federer alike lag, awesome!

 

[ByeByePoly]

You mean shanks and misshits? Not really any particular shot, Its mostly that im pretty stubborn when it comes to standing my ground on the baseline.

Im trying to take everything on the rise in order to develop hand eye coordination and the ability to take balls early, which in my opinion is a good idea considering the style of play I want to play, but sometimes the balls are extremely deep and thats when I should really take a step back and sometimes I do, but alot of times I still keep standing my ground and end up half volleying from the basline, so I guess I should expect shanking the ball from time to time.

Last time was funny, I ended up shanking 2 in like 5 mins which doesn't happen usually, and coach was like I need to focus more im not focused enough, and I said hey its not easy taking such spinny deep balls when I keep standing my ground on the baseline!
And she was like blabla I can stand there too and easily do it, so I was taunting her to do it then for a few mins, and then she really did go stand on the baseline and we started hitting and after like 5 hits she was like see its easy and then shanked the 7th ball or so, it was pretty funny

We learned not to **** off our head pro in drill group. He was in charge of the feed ... and those feeds got wider and wider.

 

[J011yroger]

We learned not to **** off our head pro in drill group. He was in charge of the feed ... and those feeds got wider and wider.

My buddy was telling me a story about how he went to tennis camp and the pro brought him outside the court and hit serves over the fence to learn how to hit a topspin serve.

So my buddy couldn't do it and got frustrated and told the pro he probably couldn't even do it.

My buddy said the pro took the ball from him and looked him in the eye and pointed at the court and said which box do you want it in.

J

 

[ByeByePoly]

J

You and NYTA are making my elbow hurt

I lose yet again That said, if you compared this to my FH at age 25,35,45 , pretty sure this is better.

 

[FiReFTW]

We learned not to **** off our head pro in drill group. He was in charge of the feed ... and those feeds got wider and wider.

Haha, we both make fun and joke around like that, its pretty normal in our practice.

I like this kind of relationship much more than just a normal boring training, last time I was teasing her about something constantly (I think she missed quite alot of drop shots), then we did volley drills for 15 mins and from time to time she blasted straight bombs directly at me several times in a row, it was so funny.

Its fun as hell with this kind of stuff, makes the practice much more interesting.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Here is an example from my game. I hit a lot of dtl FHs. I tend to hit less ts on dtl than cc (both wings). Sometimes I am targeting shorter (service line ... just past), sometimes trying to hit deeper. That is almost all swing speed in my case, because I am not thinking higher/lower over the net (who knows what actually happens subconsciously ... and I have no record of actual net clearance), and I am not hitting shorter with more spin.

coincidentally i was thinking about this problem myself this weekend... particularly on the bh side... (my opponents often camp in the bh side because they anticipate my favorite inside out or dtl fh to their bh)
what i was thinking,... is that because i have a make contact a bit later (on the 2hbh) to go down the line (therefore less "runway" to generate rhs), i need to exaggerate how much of the rhs goes to topspin (vs. driving the ball).
seemed to help me make the shot more consistently

I guess thinking about it ... three main ways to control depth/targeting:

1) swing speed
2) spin
3) net clearance

agreed

Add to that if I have missed something obvious ... maybe racquet face for some advanced players.

Let's use my wife as a more representative example of adult rec tennis than most of us on this forum. She started playing tennis mid-30s. She played years of 3.5 women's USTA doubles ... went to Nationals once (she would have been 4.0 if she ever played doubles 2-3 times a week). So I have watched a lot of 3.5 ladies 3.5 doubles, and I can't remember one topspin stroke. Surely there were a few, but I can't remember any. You would on occasion see slice (ugly version of it ). So guess what it looks like when you have 4 non-ts, non-lag ladies at the net with mini. The average men's USTA player doesn't look much better stroke wise, even if they move better.

I agree logically the bigger the lag, the better chance for max relaxed arm (at least at start of swing ... seems like measuring at flip into contact might surprise some ... but we can't measure it. I don't think the degree of "arm relaxation" difference in a "decent" stroke is really the issue with mini. For example, you hit big fh lag (I have a pic of that NYTA lag ... impressive). I experimented with flip and bigger lag, and it wasn't for me. Zero lag also wasn't for me ... I had migrated from traditional back fence front fence fh to modern adjacent. Basically ... a see some lag (not sure what qualifies as small flip) in my fh.

agreed, you defintiely don't need topspin to play tennis (as 3.5's across the nation will attest to).

[warning long monologue]
even with stiff wrist, no lag, you still need to know how to brush the back of the ball... (try conti grip fh, with no lag/drop/flip - though generally there is some)
issue, is that most rec folks (3.5 and lower) need a "large" contact window... so they point the face at the contact zone, and keep the face "square" to the contact the entire time... ie. that's the reason folks have a waiter tray serve... they open their racquet face the entire time to insure they make good contact even if late or early.
problem with brushing... or in the extreme case lag&snap'ing... you are intentionally reducing how long the face is in contact window in exchange for more spin
imagine a ball travelling horizontally (ignore spin, arc, etc...) i picture my "contact window" as a ~1ft long x 6in wide/high rectangular prism... the bunter will keep their face sqare to the prism... 2-3ft *before* and through the prism... increases the chance of making solid contact... (but no spin); the topspinner, will attack the prism vertically from the bottom which obviously makes making contact more challenging (in exchange for spin)
alternative mental model.... imagine 3 cars... car1 moving south, and car2 moving north in a headon collision toward car1.... and car3 moving perpedicular towards an intersection that may/may not collide with car1... which is easier to time? (the perpendicular intersection can be varying degrees from 1 to 90 simulating the amount of brush various strokes can have)
so mini trains me to sync the timing/feel of the brushing (attacking the prism from the bottom) using varying lengths of backswings

so if i wasn't interested in practicing "the brush" for topspin (and instead hit flat or backspin),... i'd probably avoid mini as well...

 

[ByeByePoly]

My buddy was telling me a story about how he went to tennis camp and the pro brought him outside the court and hit serves over the fence to learn how to hit a topspin serve.

So my buddy couldn't do it and got frustrated and told the pro he probably couldn't even do it.

My buddy said the pro took the ball from him and looked him in the eye and pointed at the court and said which box do you want it in.

J

lol ... I can relate. Picture a bunch of 4.5 USTA teammates that thought they were good. Our head pro ... played #1 at Div 1 ... would sometimes be our 4th guy on the court doing doubles drills. You would think ... "look at me ... I'm frickin hanging with Mr #1 Div 1". Then some shot or comment would trigger him out of his "mentor" mode and into his "you guys aren't that good" mode. I know we all need the humility lesson ... probably weekly ... but leaves a mark.

 

[FiReFTW]

Heres my contribution of stretched forearm ligaments, damn I didn't realize it was so extreme, never took much notice, feels effortless when I hit, but looking at the pic my whole arm and forearm is cringing in pain

 

[Deleted member 23235]

You mean shanks and misshits? Not really any particular shot, Its mostly that im pretty stubborn when it comes to standing my ground on the baseline.

Im trying to take everything on the rise in order to develop hand eye coordination and the ability to take balls early, which in my opinion is a good idea considering the style of play I want to play, but sometimes the balls are extremely deep and thats when I should really take a step back and sometimes I do, but alot of times I still keep standing my ground and end up half volleying from the basline, so I guess I should expect shanking the ball from time to time.

Last time was funny, I ended up shanking 2 in like 5 mins which doesn't happen usually, and coach was like I need to focus more im not focused enough, and I said hey its not easy taking such spinny deep balls when I keep standing my ground on the baseline!
And she was like blabla I can stand there too and easily do it, so I was taunting her to do it then for a few mins, and then she really did go stand on the baseline and we started hitting and after like 5 hits she was like see its easy and then shanked the 7th ball or so, it was pretty funny

a common game i used to play, is a normal groundstroke game, but neither (or one) of us... was allowed to step anywhere outside the baseline.
i really like doing this game against 3.5/weak4.0... especially since they hit short alot anyway... but mainly because it forces me to hit on the rise more.
definitely alot more shanks too.

 

[ByeByePoly]

coincidentally i was thinking about this problem myself this weekend... particularly on the bh side... (my opponents often camp in the bh side because they anticipate my favorite inside out or dtl fh to their bh)
what i was thinking,... is that because i have a make contact a bit later (on the 2hbh) to go down the line (therefore less "runway" to generate rhs), i need to exaggerate how much of the rhs goes to topspin (vs. driving the ball).
seemed to help me make the shot more consistently

agreed


agreed, you defintiely don't need topspin to play tennis (as 3.5's across the nation will attest to).

[warning long monologue]
even with stiff wrist, no lag, you still need to know how to brush the back of the ball... (try conti grip fh, with no lag/drop/flip - though generally there is some)
issue, is that most rec folks (3.5 and lower) need a "large" contact window... so they point the face at the contact zone, and keep the face "square" to the contact the entire time... ie. that's the reason folks have a waiter tray serve... they open their racquet face the entire time to insure they make good contact even if late or early.
problem with brushing... or in the extreme case lag&snap'ing... you are intentionally reducing how long the face is in contact window in exchange for more spin
imagine a ball travelling horizontally (ignore spin, arc, etc...) i picture my "contact window" as a ~1ft long x 6in wide/high rectangular prism... the bunter will keep their face sqare to the prism... 2-3ft *before* and through the prism... increases the chance of making solid contact... (but no spin); the topspinner, will attack the prism vertically from the bottom which obviously makes making contact more challenging (in exchange for spin)
alternative mental model.... imagine 3 cars... car1 moving south, and car2 moving north in a headon collision toward car1.... and car3 moving perpedicular towards an intersection that may/may not collide with car1... which is easier to time? (the perpendicular intersection can be varying degrees from 1 to 90 simulating the amount of brush various strokes can have)
so mini trains me to sync the timing/feel of the brushing (attacking the prism from the bottom) using varying lengths of backswings

so if i wasn't interested in practicing "the brush" for topspin (and instead hit flat or backspin),... i'd probably avoid mini as well...

Heading out to actually hit tennis balls ... will read and comment more ... but:

"need a "large" contact window "

That was kind of my point with McEnroe brushing up vs a modern late lag release FH. The mechanics of the stroke are totally different ... Mac by definition will take a bigger back swing for his minimum brush up stroke. Your example earlier was perfect ... you hit from a very short backswing at first warming up. That is because that late lag release allows it.

Be back after a while ... hopefully with two healthy hamstrings.

 

[J011yroger]

Heres my contribution of stretched forearm ligaments, damn I didn't realize it was so extreme, never took much notice, feels effortless when I hit, but looking at the pic my whole arm and forearm is cringing in pain

Your arm is facing the wrong way!

J

 

[Bender]

Heres my contribution of stretched forearm ligaments, damn I didn't realize it was so extreme, never took much notice, feels effortless when I hit, but looking at the pic my whole arm and forearm is cringing in pain

Yeah that elbow looks a tad hyper-extended.

 

[FiReFTW]

Yeah that elbow looks a tad hyper-extended.

Its probably just the angle of the screenshot tho, I would feel pain or something but I never feel anything.

 

[Bender]

Its probably just the angle of the screenshot tho, I would feel pain or something but I never feel anything.

If it isn’t that hyperextended at contact, I think you’re not going to feel it for a while.

Whether you’ll still feel nothing five, ten years from now is another matter altogether.

I have a straight arm forehand as well and I’m concerned for my elbow a few years down the line from now as well.

Edit: I meant “hyperextended”, not “supinated”. You would want the arm to be supinated as it starts to swing forward to contact. Pronation occurs at around the point the arm crosses the shoulder, and continues towards contact and throughout the follow-through.

 

[FiReFTW]

If it isn’t that supinated at contact, I think you’re not going to feel it for a while.

Whether you’ll still feel nothing five, ten years from now is another matter altogether.

I have a straight arm forehand as well and I’m concerned for my elbow a few years down the line from now as well.

I don't share your concern, want to know why?

These guys have been hitting straight arm forehands just like you and me.

They hit 4-5 hours almost every single day and play intense 3-5 hours matches many times, they have hit so many forehands in their tennis career that you and me won't hit in a lifetime.

They also have more explosive power and hit the forehand more explosively and vigurously, hence putting more strain in their joints, arms, legs, hips, whatever..

If they don't have issues I seriously doubt we need to have much concern, honestly.

 

[J011yroger]

I don't share your concern, want to know why?

These guys have been hitting straight arm forehands just like you and me.

They hit 4-5 hours almost every single day and play intense 3-5 hours matches many times, they have hit so many forehands in their tennis career that you and me won't hit in a lifetime.

They also have more explosive power and hit the forehand more explosively and vigurously, hence putting more strain in their joints, arms, legs, hips, whatever..

If they don't have issues I seriously doubt we need to have much concern, honestly.

Look which way their arm faces compared to your picture!

J

 

[FiReFTW]

Look which way their arm faces compared to your picture!

J

Which part of the arm?

 

[Dragy]

Your arm is facing the wrong way!

J

How his forearm survives so much supination without rotating elbow down?

 

[J011yroger]

How his forearm survives so much supination without rotating elbow down?

Something is definitely a funk.

Initially I was like why is his racquet facing down, then I realized his arm never rolled!

J

 

[J011yroger]

Which part of the arm?

The whole thing!

Do you have slow motion of your FH?

J