Anyone using Sennheiser open headphones?

[Genious at Work]

I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade to an HD800 S from an HD600. I didn't get the HD650 based on claims that it isn't as neutral (though it has a more "pleasing" sound signature, more mellow and more emphasis on bass) as the HD600.

If you have the HD800 or HD800 S, can you compare it to the HD600? I've been thinking about it, but it is a lot of money for a pair of cans. What of amplification? Would something like a Topping A30 or an ODAC+O2 cut it?

Please advice.

 

[Ronaldo]

Wowow, What are your sources that justify such a great headphone?

 

[r2473]

I had some very nice Stax headphones some years ago. Realized that no headphones can compare to proper speakers.

I wouldn’t give much for any headphones.

 

[Genious at Work]

Wowow, What are your sources that justify such a great headphone?

Do you mean "what reviews make me want to get these?" It's a combination really. My first headphones were some of those ubiquitous Sony closed studio cans, and a friend suggested I tried open headphones for soundstage, so after some research a few years ago I bought the HD600 and was hooked. The amount of detail and the soundstage on these headphones is amazing.

The problem is that I read a few reviews which basically came to say that the HD800 beats the HD600 pretty much in any department, and this had made me really intrigued about them. The sticker shock is high, but the way I rationalize it is that if these guys last even only 10 years (should last a lifetime if used properly actually,) and I use them 500 hours a year, the cost per hour is very low

If by source you mean "what source in my audio chain" that really is not a problem these days. You can get a really good solid state DAC/Amp combo for way less than these headphones cost.

Are you into audio, Ronaldo? Specifically headphones?

 

[Genious at Work]

I had some very nice Stax headphones some years ago. Realized that no headphones can compare to proper speakers.

I wouldn’t give much for any headphones.

I have never heard the Stax, but I've seen some old designs that pretty much look like two speakers held together against your skull.

Yes, a good set of speakers does have many advantages, but there are inconvenients also (forgetting the practical issues of portability, cost, etc.) With a headphone you can actually get more precise placement without worrying much about convoluted set ups, because the things are basically designed to sit at a relative stable position with respect to your ears. So I wouldn't consider headphones an inferior option necessarily, just a different option.

 

[onehandbh]

Can’t wait to try some Sennheiser HD600s. They can’t possibly be better than Dr. Dre Beets, but I’ll give them a try.

Can I connect them via bluetooth to my iphone?

I want to maximize the detail and sound I hear from my 64 kbps mp3 stream on my phone when I am at the gym. Need open headphones so I can hear myself grunt while I lift some heavy metal objects.

 

[Ronaldo]

Do you mean "what reviews make me want to get these?" It's a headphonescombination really. My first headphones were some of those ubiquitous Sony closed studio cans, and a friend suggested I tried open headphones for soundstage, so after some research a few years ago I bought the HD600 and was hooked. The amount of detail and the soundstage on these headphones is amazing.

The problem is that I read a few reviews which basically came to say that the HD800 beats the HD600 pretty much in any department, and this had made me really intrigued about them. The sticker shock is high, but the way I rationalize it is that if these guys last even only 10 years (should last a lifetime if used properly actually,) and I use them 500 hours a year, the cost per hour is very low

If by source you mean "what source in my audio chain" that really is not a problem these days. You can get a really good solid state DAC/Amp combo for way less than these headphones cost.

Are you into audio, Ronaldo? Specifically headphones?

Many years ago had Stax headphones. Downgraded my system and settled on Grados. Got back into this through Massdrop.
May be a source for many reviews. Getting curious about the high-resolution files available now. And which file format you are using.

 

[Genious at Work]

Can’t wait to try some Sennheiser HD600s. They can’t possible be better than Dr. Dre Beets, but I’ll give them a try.

Can I connect them via bluetooth to my iphone?

I want to maximize the detail and sound I hear from 64 kbps mp3 stream on my phone when I am at the gym.

If you tie their cord to your phone it improves the sound.

Many years ago had Stax headphones. Downgraded my system and settled on Grados. Got back into this through Massdrop.
May be a source for many reviews. Getting curious about the high-resolution files available now. And which file format you are using.

Aha! I see. Yes, Massdrop have caused some stir in recent years.

I really don't pay much attention to the new file formats, as I think there is no point. Good old FLAC or 320mbps MP3 are plenty good for anyone. Even the frequency response specs of most headphones are overkill (I'm talking about the range.) What is important is the detail and soundstage of the cans for me, and that they are fairly neutral.

I've never heard how a set of Stax sounds, but I am interested just for curiosity's sake.

 

[onehandbh]

I used to use Sennheiser 595s and then switched to the Sony MDR-V6 (modded with velour earpad covers). Closed works better for me b/c I am not often in a perfectly quiet environment.

 

[Genious at Work]

I used to use Sennheiser 595s and then switched to the Sony MDR-V6 (modded with velour earpad covers). Closed works better for me b/c I am not often in a perfectly quiet environment.

Yeah, I started with the Sony 7506 which are just like the V6 by most accounts except for some different wiring. They are good headphones, but a little shrill sometimes, and definitely not to the level of the open Sennheisers, the first of which I owned was the HD580, and which is pretty much like the HD600.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

@Genious at Work

I had some very nice Stax headphones some years ago. Realized that no headphones can compare to proper speakers.

I wouldn’t give much for any headphones.

So what is the cost of proper speakers these days?

Not checked out much high-end audiophile equipment since the 1980s. Back in the days when audio perfectionists were trading in their expensive McIntosh amplifiers for even higher-end stuff. Magnaplanar and Klipsch speakers, anyone? Nakamichi tape decks? Still recall some oddball, but somewhat impressive Sennheiser headphones from the 1970s.

Guess I’ve just been settling these days. My ears are not what they once were 30 years ago. Average sound quality for equipment has improved considerably since those days but I still often not happy with what I’ve been settling for.

How much would it be take to beat the modern Sennheiser & Stax headphones? I was quite impressed with a pair of Phaiser BHS-790 (Bluetooth) earbuds that I owned earlier this year. Sadly lost/stolen 2 weeks after I got them. Cost me about $180 USD but I believe that they are currently available for $50-80. Would be difficult for me to justify spending thousands of $$$ on high-end speakers or headphones given the sound quality of these much cheaper BT earphones from Phaiser and others.
.

 

[r2473]

So what is the cost of proper speakers these days?

Magnaplanar and Klipsch speakers, anyone?

Used to have Maggies. Need too much power to drive them. Now I have Klipsch horns. With the right upgrades, they are perfect.

http://www.klipschupgrades.com/khornupgrades3.shtml

Khorn V-TracII horns, V-120 midrange adapters, and Beyma CP25 tweeters - $1,797

This is what we consider the perfect "starter package" for those who are on a tight budget, but still want great "bang for the buck" sound improvement for their Khorns.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Used to have Maggies. Need too much power to drive them. Now I have Klipsch horns. With the right upgrades, they are perfect.

http://www.klipschupgrades.com/khornupgrades3.shtml

Khorn V-TracII horns, V-120 midrange adapters, and Beyma CP25 tweeters - $1,797

This is what we consider the perfect "starter package" for those who are on a tight budget, but still want great "bang for the buck" sound improvement for their Khorns.

Were you around for the heyday of Pacific Stereo (late 60s to early 80s)? They didn’t have much, if any, of the real high end stuff. But a lot of avg consumers & pseudo-audiophiles shopped there. The sales guys just knew enough of the buzzwords to BS or confuse most shoppers.

I would sometimes walk into PS for a good deal or just to see what they had for their top end stuff. I would start with a few simple buzzwords & questions and play dumb for a while. After they spouted some BS and dug themselves a hole, I’d hit them with a couple of questions that were way over their heads. They would respond with, “excuse me, I’ll be right back”. They would disappear or start helping a more naive customer. They never came back.

Circuit City probably started taking over in this area as PS rode off into the sunset. Now that CC is history, I guess Best Buy & others, possibly, have filled the void. I don’t know where the Real audiophile stuff is any longer. Would need to do some serious hunting to find them so that I could spoil my ears again.
.

 

[Genious at Work]

@Genious at Work


So what is the cost of proper speakers these days?

Not checked out much high-end audiophile equipment since the 1980s. Back in the days when audio perfectionists were trading in their expensive McIntosh amplifiers for even higher-end stuff. Magnaplanar and Klipsch speakers, anyone? Nakamichi tape decks? Still recall some oddball, but somewhat impressive Sennheiser headphones from the 1970s.

Guess I’ve just been settling these days. My ears are not what they once were 30 years ago. Average sound quality for equipment has improved considerably since those days but I still often not happy with what I’ve been settling for.

How much would it be take to beat the modern Sennheiser & Stax headphones? I was quite impressed with a pair of Phaiser BHS-790 (Bluetooth) earbuds that I owned earlier this year. Sadly lost/stolen 2 weeks after I got them. Cost me about $180 USD but I believe that they are currently available for $50-80. Would be difficult for me to justify spending thousands of $$$ on high-end speakers or headphones given the sound quality of these much cheaper BT earphones from Phaiser and others.
.

I am not really an audiophile in the sense I am not obsessed about having the best equipment. I listen to most of my stuff with the HD600 because they are very open and detailed and are a pleasure to listen to, but I have a set of desktop speakers that I use sometimes when I want to feel the impact of the music outside my ears, a set of Sony SS-B1000, which I bought for less than $100. Actually, way better sounding than the pricetag would indicate. Again, if I want detail and consistent soundstage I go with the HD600. I also have a better set of speakers (Mission,) but I'm not using those now, because I don't feel like getting a proper set up for them and I'm sufficiently content with the Sonys.

Like you said, the threshold of money required to get very good sounding equipment these days is much lower than it once was. So, why the heck I'm thinking about getting a pair of HD800(S)? Simply because I like the HD600 so much, and so many people think the HD800 basically improves on it in every area. I still remember the first time I heard to the HD580 coming from the closed Sony studio headphones I had used until then, and it was a revelation. If the HD800 is that much better than the HD580/600 you got my attention. But still, I'm finding it hard to convince myself to spend so much on a pair of cans. Come on, people. Convince me!

BTW, LOL at Nakamichi. Always reminds me of Nakatomi Plaza.

 

[Genious at Work]

Used to have Maggies. Need too much power to drive them. Now I have Klipsch horns. With the right upgrades, they are perfect.

http://www.klipschupgrades.com/khornupgrades3.shtml

Khorn V-TracII horns, V-120 midrange adapters, and Beyma CP25 tweeters - $1,797

This is what we consider the perfect "starter package" for those who are on a tight budget, but still want great "bang for the buck" sound improvement for their Khorns.

Yes, but when you are on a business trip, can you take them with you?

 

[Genious at Work]

Were you around for the heyday of Pacific Stereo (late 60s to early 80s)? They didn’t have much, if any, of the real high end stuff. But a lot of avg consumers & pseudo-audiophiles shopped there. The sales guys just knew enough of the buzzwords to BS or confuse most shoppers.

I would sometimes walk into PS for a good deal or just to see what they had for their top end stuff. I would start with a few simple buzzwords & questions and play dumb for a while. After they spouted some BS and dug themselves a hole, I’d hit them with a couple of questions that were way over their heads. They would respond with, “excuse me, I’ll be right back”. They would disappear or start helping a more naive customer. They never came back.

Circuit City probably started taking over in this area as PS rode off into the sunset. Now that CC is history, I guess Best Buy & others, possibly, have filled the void. I don’t know where the Real audiophile stuff is any longer. Would need to do some serious hunting to find them so that I could spoil my ears again.
.

Did you ever find out from the PS doods what was the optimal parallel capacitance coil to get in the zone while listening Pink Floyd's The Wall?

 

[liftordie]

Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro

 

[Genious at Work]

Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro

I thought about buying this as a secondary headphone, have you compared it to something like the HD600?

 

[liftordie]

I thought about buying this as a secondary headphone, have you compared it to something like the HD600?

Is it for real high quality hifi listening?

 

[r2473]

Were you around for the heyday of Pacific Stereo (late 60s to early 80s)? They didn’t have much, if any, of the real high end stuff. But a lot of avg consumers & pseudo-audiophiles shopped there. The sales guys just knew enough of the buzzwords to BS or confuse most shoppers.

I would sometimes walk into PS for a good deal or just to see what they had for their top end stuff. I would start with a few simple buzzwords & questions and play dumb for a while. After they spouted some BS and dug themselves a hole, I’d hit them with a couple of questions that were way over their heads. They would respond with, “excuse me, I’ll be right back”. They would disappear or start helping a more naive customer. They never came back.

Circuit City probably started taking over in this area as PS rode off into the sunset. Now that CC is history, I guess Best Buy & others, possibly, have filled the void. I don’t know where the Real audiophile stuff is any longer. Would need to do some serious hunting to find them so that I could spoil my ears again.
.

Only places I know are Audiogon and Fbay. Though a Jolida tube CD player and amp from Jim Fosgate are up for sale on my local classifieds. I was tempted to buy them

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Only places I know are Audiogon and Fbay. Though a Jolida tube CD player and amp from Jim Fosgate are up for sale on my local classifieds. I was tempted to buy them

Are McIntosh and Audio Research Corp still producing tube amps for audiophiles?

 

[r2473]

Are McIntosh and Audio Research Corp still producing tube amps for audiophiles?

Not sure. I finalized my setup over 10 years ago. I’m not a guy that gets into the gear side of things and constantly fiddles. I’ve had the same tennis racquets since 2007.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Not sure. I finalized my setup over 10 years ago. I’m not a guy that gets into the gear side of things and constantly fiddles. I’ve had the same tennis racquets since 2007.

You have a tube amp now or just tempted to get one? Would think that a tube amp kind of guy might be playing with a wood racquet.

 

[Genious at Work]

Is it for real high quality hifi listening?

I have a minimum expectation when I listen to headphones, but I don't expect it to reach the level of excellence of the HD600, just have a different character. Have you A/B them with Sennheiser headphones?

 

[liftordie]

I have a minimum expectation when I listen to headphones, but I don't expect it to reach the level of excellence of the HD600, just have a different character. Have you A/B them with Sennheiser headphones?

No but Beyerdynamic is as good as Sennheiser or even better. It is high quality and durability. I have DT990 Pro, DT770 Pro and DT880 Pro and they are SO good.
No need to invest more.

 

[r2473]

You have a tube amp now or just tempted to get one? Would think that a tube amp kind of guy might be playing with a wood racquet.

I have a tube integrated amp and phono amp. I like the tube sound, but it’s tricky. I was lucky to find a local guy who found me fantastic tubes for my stuff.

I also mainly listen to vinyl, but getting a good turntable and getting it setup right is tricky too.

My system is able to give a very good representation of music, assuming it was recorded well. It gives good spatial representation. Instruments and voices sound like they should. It gives a lot of the detail in a piece. But it is is also able to do all this while presenting music as an integrated whole.

When you get it right, it sounds great.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I have a tube integrated amp and phono amp. I like the tube sound, but it’s tricky. I was lucky to find a local guy who found me fantastic tubes for my stuff.

I also mainly listen to vinyl, but getting a good turntable and getting it setup right is tricky too.

My system is able to give a very good representation of music, assuming it was recorded well. It gives good spatial representation. Instruments and voices sound like they should. It gives a lot of the detail in a piece. But it is is also able to do all this while presenting music as an integrated whole.

When you get it right, it sounds great.

Way back in the late 60s, I came across an article stating that, even at low tracking forces, vinyl grooves experienced incredible pressures on the order of tons per square inch. And these pressures would deform the grooves which would take some period of time to recover. Repeated playing during this recovery period would result in loss of fidelity (particularly high frequencies).

Don't recall the stated recovery time but it was something on the order of 12-48 hours. Told my high school buddy about this and he came up with the terms, "tonning the grooves", "tonning the vinyl" or just "tonning the record" for playing an album or vinyl track more than once every day or two.

You go out of your way to get your hands on high quality or audiophile recordings? I have a few 12" records that are meant to be played at 45 rpm rather than the usual album speed of 33 1/3.

Some high quality pressings include Brian Eno's Apollo: (if you are a fan of outstanding ambient) or Stravinsky's The Firebird by the NY Philharmonic with Pierre Boulez on Columbia Masterworks. There are several different formats for the latter, including quadraphonic and half-speed mastered. But even the standard stereo version was outstanding IIRC. The orchestra was closely miked. The quality of the recording was so good that you could occasionally hear the faint sounds of chairs creaking and sheet music pages being turned. Just, wow!

Half-speed Mastered vinyl pressing (source)

Another stellar album/music I used for checking out speakers and other audio components:

https://www.audiophileusa.com/item.cfm?record=35347​

 

[Genious at Work]

No but Beyerdynamic is as good as Sennheiser or even better. It is high quality and durability. I have DT990 Pro, DT770 Pro and DT880 Pro and they are SO good.
No need to invest more.

That's not the general opinion though, even if you happen to like them better. I personally haven't heard any Beyerdynamic headphones, so I couldn't tell.

 

[liftordie]

That's not the general opinion though.

It is by far the massive general opinion in professional music studios and for music production.

 

[r2473]

You go out of your way to get your hands on high quality or audiophile recordings?

No. They are always massively overpriced.

I'm not a "neurotic audiophile". I'm not worried that somebody has better stuff than me or that I don't have the best of the best.

I always believe you can get 80% out of most things with just a bit of effort and maybe a few extra bucks. You can probably get to 90% with a fair amount of time / effort and a moderate amount of money spent. The last 10% will cost lots of time / effort / money. This is true for most things. Including tennis. So I'd say my audio gear is probably "4.5 level". Maybe low 5.0 level. But I'm not worried that my audio gear can't compete with the D1 kid down the street, let alone Federer. I'm quite happy with my 4.5 audio game.

So I don't even look at Federer's strokes (audiophile pressings) when I know my technique level (audio system) is only at the 4.5 level. Buying these recordings would be a waste. My system couldn't even "comprehend" them.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

No. They are always massively overpriced.

I'm not a "neurotic audiophile". I'm not worried that somebody has better stuff than me or that I don't have the best of the best.

I always believe you can get 80% out of most things with just a bit of effort and maybe a few extra bucks. You can probably get to 90% with a fair amount of time / effort and a moderate amount of money spent. The last 10% will cost lots of time / effort / money. This is true for most things. Including tennis. So I'd say my audio gear is probably "4.5 level". Maybe low 5.0 level. But I'm not worried that my audio gear can't compete with the D1 kid down the street, let alone Federer. I'm quite happy with my 4.5 audio game.

So I don't even look at Federer's strokes (audiophile pressings) when I know my technique level (audio system) is only at the 4.5 level. Buying these recordings would be a waste. My system couldn't even "comprehend" them.

Neurosis not required. Many standard vinyl records were just substandard IMHO. Too many pops & clicks or the transients & crispness just wasn’t what it should have been. Even with my modest/moderate audiophile equipment, I could, more often than not, tell the diff between an ultra-fidelity pressing and a standard pressing.

However, the standard versions of the Stravinsky and It’s A Beautiful Day albums I mentioned were already quite impressive.

One of my better systems from the late 70s included a Sansui 8080 receiver (not exactly a McIntosh or other high-end tube amp/receiver, but not too shabby either). Had pretty decent turntables and phono cartridges.

My best speakers were unknown prototypes developed by a Bay Area engineer. Clay Mull, I think. Stellar sonic quality but I often felt that his speakers need an additional center speaker for my environment. Unique cylindrical design with the transducers (speakers) mounted on the an angled top. He also had a higher end model, used in some music clubs in the area, that had amplifiers built into the base of the speaker boxes.

Difficult to describe. This was a side project/business for Mull. Don’t think that he really ever got his company off the ground. None of the other cylindrical speakers I’ve seen on the market look like his unique design all.

 

[eelhc]

I had the Massdrop Sennheiser's... Good cans but I keep waiting for something to happen. Way too neutral for my preference. I like a brighter sound. I have the Hifiman HE400i as well and they're bright without being fatiguing compared to my Grado SR325e.... Yeah... I've got a few of them. Nothing really high end though.

For DAC/AMP... I have been very impressed with the Fiio Alpen2 E17K... cheap and portable.

Back in the day when it was a thing to go over to a friends house to listen to an entire album that was just released (those of us over 50 know)... I had all the gear. When I got married and moved into a small city apartment, I gave up the big Maggies, and the massive amps.... Never did get them back. I did manage to keep a large CD collection which over the years have been ripped into FLAC and loaded on a home NAS. Now it's a date with a tumbler full of bourbon and a set of good cans.

 

[Genious at Work]

It is by far the massive general opinion in professional music studios and for music production.

HEHE. Nice try.

 

[Genious at Work]

No. They are always massively overpriced.

I'm not a "neurotic audiophile". I'm not worried that somebody has better stuff than me or that I don't have the best of the best.

I always believe you can get 80% out of most things with just a bit of effort and maybe a few extra bucks. You can probably get to 90% with a fair amount of time / effort and a moderate amount of money spent. The last 10% will cost lots of time / effort / money. This is true for most things. Including tennis. So I'd say my audio gear is probably "4.5 level". Maybe low 5.0 level. But I'm not worried that my audio gear can't compete with the D1 kid down the street, let alone Federer. I'm quite happy with my 4.5 audio game.

So I don't even look at Federer's strokes (audiophile pressings) when I know my technique level (audio system) is only at the 4.5 level. Buying these recordings would be a waste. My system couldn't even "comprehend" them.

Good post. I don't even consider myself an audiophile, even if I love good sound. (Bunch of Greek people chasing me right now.) I like the HD600s because to me they sound the best.

I wonder if the "neurotic audiophile" type you mention has ever stopped to consider that the weakest link in anyone's audio chain is probably their own ears and that there is nothing they can do to change it.

 

[Genious at Work]

Neurosis not required. Many standard vinyl records were just substandard IMHO. Too many pops & clicks or the transients & crispness just wasn’t what it should have been. Even with my modest/moderate audiophile equipment, I could, more often than not, tell the diff between an ultra-fidelity pressing and a standard pressing.

However, the standard versions of the Stravinsky and It’s A Beautiful Day albums I mentioned were already quite impressive.

One of my better systems from the late 70s included a Sansui 8080 receiver (not exactly a McIntosh or other high-end tube amp/receiver, but not too shabby either). Had pretty decent turntables and phono cartridges.

My best speakers were unknown prototypes developed by a Bay Area engineer. Clay Mull, I think. Stellar sonic quality but I often felt that his speakers need an additional center speaker for my environment. Unique cylindrical design with the transducers (speakers) mounted on the an angled top. He also had a higher end model, used in some music clubs in the area, that had amplifiers built into the base of the speaker boxes.

Difficult to describe. This was a side project/business for Mull. Don’t think that he really ever got his company off the ground. None of the other cylindrical speakers I’ve seen on the market look like his unique design all.

Do you think vinyl still has a use today? Can anyone truly tell the difference between vinyl and a good CD, beside the obvious pops and analog noise?

Those speakers sound interesting. Does Clay Mull have a website, or was he an obscure local figure?

 

[Genious at Work]

I had the Massdrop Sennheiser's... Good cans but I keep waiting for something to happen. Way too neutral for my preference. I like a brighter sound. I have the Hifiman HE400i as well and they're bright without being fatiguing compared to my Grado SR325e.... Yeah... I've got a few of them. Nothing really high end though.

For DAC/AMP... I have been very impressed with the Fiio Alpen2 E17K... cheap and portable.

Back in the day when it was a thing to go over to a friends house to listen to an entire album that was just released (those of us over 50 know)... I had all the gear. When I got married and moved into a small city apartment, I gave up the big Maggies, and the massive amps.... Never did get them back. I did manage to keep a large CD collection which over the years have been ripped into FLAC and loaded on a home NAS. Now it's a date with a tumbler full of bourbon and a set of good cans.

Which of the Massdrop Sennheisers are you talking about? I think they released a few, didn't they? Since you mention you have several cans, do you happen to have any of the old AKG K240 headphones? I almost bought a Sextett AKG K240 Cardan a few weeks ago. They are very interesting, have 6 radiators built into each cup that are supposed to resonate with specific low frequencies, and some people rave about them. But they are very difficult to drive, and that ultimately gave me some pause.

What can you drive well with your Alpen2 E17K? I might look into getting a portable amp to get more use out of my HD600 portably.

 

[eelhc]

Which of the Massdrop Sennheisers are you talking about? I think they released a few, didn't they? Since you mention you have several cans, do you happen to have any of the old AKG K240 headphones? I almost bought a Sextett AKG K240 Cardan a few weeks ago. They are very interesting, have 6 radiators built into each cup that are supposed to resonate with specific low frequencies, and some people rave about them. But they are very difficult to drive, and that ultimately gave me some pause.

What can you drive well with your Alpen2 E17K? I might look into getting a portable amp to get more use out of my HD600 portably.

I had (recently sold) HD 6xx (650s supposedly)... they are not a particularly efficient/loud headphone. Yes The Alpen 2 E17K drove them fine but they got nowhere as loud as my Grados, Hifiman, B+W... I do recommend the E17K....

Never had the AKGs...

 

[liftordie]

Do you think vinyl still has a use today? Can anyone truly tell the difference between vinyl and a good CD, beside the obvious pops and analog noise?

OF COURSE.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Good post. I don't even consider myself an audiophile, even if I love good sound. (Bunch of Greek people chasing me right now.) I like the HD600s because to me they sound the best.

I wonder if the "neurotic audiophile" type you mention has ever stopped to consider that the weakest link in anyone's audio chain is probably their own ears and that there is nothing they can do to change it.

Audiophiles can easily tell the difference between high-end headphones or speakers and ones that are merely good (but average). The ears/brain, not the weakest link. Even tho, in my mid 60s, my ears aren’t as good as they were 40 yrs ago, I can still tell the diff. But much of the time, these days, I’m settling for mediocre.

The Mull speakers preceded the internet as we know it by decades. Sadly no website. Could not find any images or info on the interwebs at all.

 

[Genious at Work]

Audiophiles can easily tell the difference between high-end headphones or speakers and ones that are merely good (but average). The ears/brain, not the weakest link. Even tho, in my mid 60s, my ears aren’t as good as they were 40 yrs ago, I can still tell the diff. But much of the time, these days, I’m settling for mediocre.

The Mull speakers preceded the internet as we know it by decades. Sadly no website. Could not find any images or info on the interwebs at all.

What I mean by "audiophile" is the people who claim they can distinguish a 320Mbps mp3 from a lossless file, or those who will spend thousands of dollars on cables claiming that they improve the sound (when the truth is that is a bunch of nonsense.) What I mean by ears/brain being the weakest link is that audiophiles often look for specifications that are out of the range of human perception. There is no way anyone can tell the difference between a 320Mbps mp3 and a FLAC, or between regular copper wire and that oxygen-free silver alloy stuff (or similar nonsense they sell.)

Yes, I figured there would be no current website for the Mull speakers, but I'm surprised at least there is no fanpage or something similar.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

@Genious at Work
Production of the Mull speakers might have been too limited to produce much of a following. Might have been too difficult to manufacture to be feasible. Found them thru a friend. We were essentially buying prototypes. Saw double versions wth built-in amp at Eulipia Cafe in SJ. New owner & name for that place now. Have seen pics of the place but no evidence of a stage or the Mull speakers from 30-40 yrs ago.

 

[Genious at Work]

@Genious at Work
Production of the Mull speakers might have been too limited to produce much of a following. Might have been too difficult to manufacture to be feasible. Found them thru a friend. We were essentially buying prototypes. Saw double versions wth built-in amp at Eulipia Cafe in SJ. New owner & name for that place now. Have seen pics of the place but no evidence of a stage or the Mull speakers from 30-40 yrs ago.

Did you still have those speakers around? Was the design ever patented to your knowledge?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Did you still have those speakers around? Was the design ever patented to your knowledge?

One of my Mull speakers was damaged by one of my nephews when they were very young. Not sure if I still have them. Might be in a storage locker if I didn’t give them away. I seem to recall a patent pending on the design. Not sure if it was eventually patented.
.

 

[Shroud]

Used to have Maggies. Need too much power to drive them. Now I have Klipsch horns. With the right upgrades, they are perfect.

http://www.klipschupgrades.com/khornupgrades3.shtml

Khorn V-TracII horns, V-120 midrange adapters, and Beyma CP25 tweeters - $1,797

This is what we consider the perfect "starter package" for those who are on a tight budget, but still want great "bang for the buck" sound improvement for their Khorns.

sad. Now adays there are plenty of beefy amps to drive Maggies. And if you know what you are doing you can run the smaller ones on 1-2w triode amps. But Klipsch can be nice.

 

[Shroud]

What I mean by "audiophile" is the people who claim they can distinguish a 320Mbps mp3 from a lossless file, or those who will spend thousands of dollars on cables claiming that they improve the sound (when the truth is that is a bunch of nonsense.) What I mean by ears/brain being the weakest link is that audiophiles often look for specifications that are out of the range of human perception. There is no way anyone can tell the difference between a 320Mbps mp3 and a FLAC, or between regular copper wire and that oxygen-free silver alloy stuff (or similar nonsense they sell.)

Yes, I figured there would be no current website for the Mull speakers, but I'm surprised at least there is no fanpage or something similar.

Ok I see where you are coming from. 320mbs is pretty good and it IS hard to distinguish. But below that? Easy. Foobar has an ABX plugin and I aced the 192 mp3. But here is the thing. Most computers where MP3s are played and you can do an abx test are terrible for audio. So sure it might be hard to do 320Mbs on those computers but I bet on an audio computer that bypasses windows Kmixer and is more realtime it can be done. I have such a computer and while its a hassle to get files on it because its not even networked (it doesnt even have a desktop, just plays music) I can try it and let you know. It will be impossible to do it blind I think but I can tell if its doable and then maybe I can figure out a way to do it blind.

True story I once worked for a company that was releasing a product that would store cds to mp3s. The engineers were certain that 192mbs was high enough that it wasnt audible from the source. they set out to prove that to the sales staff. So they set up a test using a lappy with balanced outs to a headphone amp and some headphones. I took their tests. You should have seen the lead acoustic engineers face when I passed the abx test. Twice.

But non audiophiles dont get it. Its all bits to them. But audio is a realtime event as much as you can get it to be on a computer...its data in a timeframe. For instance most will say that Flac and .wav will sound the same. Forums will ban you for asking how to ABX flac vs. wave because foobar's abx plugin converts everything to .wav prior to listening (he he I go banned man for asking how to properly ABX two files)....so you are comparing .wav with .wav not .wav and FLac. Ie the extra processing will create a different electrical situation that may be audible. There are engineers saying that FLac sounds different than .wav even though the data is the same.

Anyhow good luck

I had the Massdrop Sennheiser's... Good cans but I keep waiting for something to happen. Way too neutral for my preference. I like a brighter sound. I have the Hifiman HE400i as well and they're bright without being fatiguing compared to my Grado SR325e.... Yeah... I've got a few of them. Nothing really high end though.

For DAC/AMP... I have been very impressed with the Fiio Alpen2 E17K... cheap and portable.

Back in the day when it was a thing to go over to a friends house to listen to an entire album that was just released (those of us over 50 know)... I had all the gear. When I got married and moved into a small city apartment, I gave up the big Maggies, and the massive amps.... Never did get them back. I did manage to keep a large CD collection which over the years have been ripped into FLAC and loaded on a home NAS. Now it's a date with a tumbler full of bourbon and a set of good cans.

maggie guy here. Try the Monolith M1060s $100 of right now for $199. Run them off a speaker amp using some resistor boxes like the Rolls PM52. Get 2 boxes and run the cans balanced. Amazing off my Parasound A21.
If the HiFimans can be run balanced try that with them. I almost bought the mass drop hifimans but got the M1060s instead. IIRC it was easier to do balanced. Even a small sub 100$ T-amp was better than my Schitt Vali-2 headphone amp. Planars need some juice and having the channels separated really helps.

Some of those T-amps can be run off of batteries. So can tablets running USB dacs. In theory that will be awesome or really suck depending on who you ask. But a cheap trial and soon I will let you know how it went.

 

[Shroud]

Are McIntosh and Audio Research Corp still producing tube amps for audiophiles?

YES still going strong. Their old gear still fetches dough.

 

[Shroud]

Were you around for the heyday of Pacific Stereo (late 60s to early 80s)? They didn’t have much, if any, of the real high end stuff. But a lot of avg consumers & pseudo-audiophiles shopped there. The sales guys just knew enough of the buzzwords to BS or confuse most shoppers.

I would sometimes walk into PS for a good deal or just to see what they had for their top end stuff. I would start with a few simple buzzwords & questions and play dumb for a while. After they spouted some BS and dug themselves a hole, I’d hit them with a couple of questions that were way over their heads. They would respond with, “excuse me, I’ll be right back”. They would disappear or start helping a more naive customer. They never came back.

Circuit City probably started taking over in this area as PS rode off into the sunset. Now that CC is history, I guess Best Buy & others, possibly, have filled the void. I don’t know where the Real audiophile stuff is any longer. Would need to do some serious hunting to find them so that I could spoil my ears again.
.

https://www.musicloversaudio.com/
http://www.houseofmusicsf.com/

Sadly the other 2 I was thinking of are out of business.

Also online:

Also www.audioadvisor.com
www.musicdirect.com
and amazon carries a ton of high end gear and cheap but some good stuff from china.

 

[eelhc]

What I mean by "audiophile" is the people who claim they can distinguish a 320Mbps mp3 from a lossless file, or those who will spend thousands of dollars on cables claiming that they improve the sound (when the truth is that is a bunch of nonsense.) What I mean by ears/brain being the weakest link is that audiophiles often look for specifications that are out of the range of human perception. There is no way anyone can tell the difference between a 320Mbps mp3 and a FLAC, or between regular copper wire and that oxygen-free silver alloy stuff (or similar nonsense they sell.)

Yes, I figured there would be no current website for the Mull speakers, but I'm surprised at least there is no fanpage or something similar.

While I do agree there's a lot of BS in high end audio, I have demonstrated to dozens of people that FLAC encoding, better DACs, and Amps sound better.
This is not hard to do because the standards are so low these days and most folks listen to crap encoding on their iPhones through their beats headphones. Replace their setup with my Hifiman HE400i and Fiio Alpen2 E17K and they immediatedly notice the difference. The 320K vs FLAC encoding is more subtle but there is a difference, particularly for specific types (or sections) of music. Go listen to a cymbal heavy piece on a crappy setup sometime.

As for expensive cables/wire, silver solder, etc... part snake oil and part diminishing returns. That said, perception is reality so if a person can perceive the difference and is willing to shell out the coin, why not? I find the beats fashion accessory headphones sillier.

 

[Shroud]

While I do agree there's a lot of BS in high end audio, I have demonstrated to dozens of people that FLAC encoding, better DACs, and Amps sound better.
This is not hard to do because the standards are so low these days and most folks listen to crap encoding on their iPhones through their beats headphones. Replace their setup with my Hifiman HE400i and Fiio Alpen2 E17K and they immediatedly notice the difference. The 320K vs FLAC encoding is more subtle but there is a difference, particularly for specific types (or sections) of music. Go listen to a cymbal heavy piece on a crappy setup sometime.

As for expensive cables/wire, silver solder, etc... part snake oil and part diminishing returns. That said, perception is reality so if a person can perceive the difference and is willing to shell out the coin, why not? I find the beats fashion accessory headphones sillier.

yep cables are tough. Lots of bs out there. That said if you really want to understand cables and save a ton of money doing it I highly recommend this book:

http://www.vacuumstate.com/index.dn...5%98%1C%250D%95%A69&b=737404.7181642256&sku=7

you can make your own cables for tons less and well they sound better than most store bought items. There are some theory sections and IME they make fantastic cables for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Genious at Work]

While I do agree there's a lot of BS in high end audio, I have demonstrated to dozens of people that FLAC encoding, better DACs, and Amps sound better.
This is not hard to do because the standards are so low these days and most folks listen to crap encoding on their iPhones through their beats headphones. Replace their setup with my Hifiman HE400i and Fiio Alpen2 E17K and they immediatedly notice the difference. The 320K vs FLAC encoding is more subtle but there is a difference, particularly for specific types (or sections) of music. Go listen to a cymbal heavy piece on a crappy setup sometime.

As for expensive cables/wire, silver solder, etc... part snake oil and part diminishing returns. That said, perception is reality so if a person can perceive the difference and is willing to shell out the coin, why not? I find the beats fashion accessory headphones sillier.

Yes, or course. Better equipment will yield better sound, but the human ear can't perceive that much difference. MP3s with a lot of nuances in the high registers like you say tend to expose lower rate mp3 issues, but not a 320kbps mp3, at least not for me. Maybe my hearing is not that great.

Beats is crap through and through. But the ultra expensive cable craze is no less moronic IMHO.