AO 2011 R32: Rafael Nadal (1) vs Bernard Tomic

[namelessone]

This is not about whether or not Nadal is/may be ill. It's about what Nadal always does, which is play up illnesses/injuries to have some excuse in case he loses. Even if he doesn't make these excuses himself, fans/commentators make them for him and take credit from opponents. This year all we hear about is how Nadal was 'injured' when he lost last year to Murray, even though the injury occurred during the match, and Nadal was already getting his arse whipped when he quit.

Nadal said before the tourney he was 100%, now after training and practicing before the tourney, and getting through 2 matches w/o hassle, we hear the excuses start when he plays poorly. It's ridiculous.

Only ignorant people say that. Nadal's injury came at the end of the second set, Murray played better the big points up until that point but everybody knows that Murray beat Nadal and that Rafa's injury was a separate event.

On this one, did it ever occur to you that Nadal actually felt good when the tourney started but then started having symptoms again? Anybody who's had a cold knows that you may feel good and then worse. It's different with everyone.

I don't know what Nadal says at the beginning of the tourney, he may tell the truth, he may be lying. All I know is that Nadal has been sweating buckets this whole tourney, even moreso in this tomic NIGHT MATCH, today he looked very,very sluggish from the first point, lost almost three freaking kilos in a three setter:shock: and sounded congested still in his car interview. Those are all signs of a dude that still suffers from the effects of the bug he had.

That is all.

 

[Eternally_damned]

Once I start recovering from a cold, I never feel bad again.

 

[TennisFan3]

You forget that how sensitive pro players are to change, a cold nearly cost Nadal a set against a young and inexperienced player, while mono took out a whole training block of Federer.



The mono was not affecting him by Wimbledon, but it affected other things, which in turned likely affected him at both the FO and Wimbledon.



It is good to know that there are some sensible people on this forum, unlike T&M. lololol



To be honest I think Nadal is likely still a little fatigued from playing so much during his illness. He's not 100%, but I think he feels good enough that it's not that big of a deal. It's not really an excuse, everyone has to deal with illnesses and injury. If Nadal loses in this tournament, he loses.

Good post. I pretty much agree with everything. As I said before, at the top level it's a game of inches. Even a 5% drop can take you out of contention.

When Nadal had his knee problems it took him so long to recover. Not because he didn't recover physically, but because he lost soo much ground and effectively 2 slams + his #1 and #2. Ditto for Federer: While the effects of the mono would be gone before the F.O/Wimb - he would have lost that confidence and perhaps it would take his body some extra time to recover back to 100% movement and speed. I mean it's obvious to everyone, that Fed plays much better NOW than what he did in Fall 2008.

I guess part of being able to win grad slams is being in your best shape physically. And if you are NOT, and you lose, TOO BAD. It's certainly NOT an excuse - not for Nadal and not even for Federer.

Coming back to Nadal -

It seems that Nadal's team miscalculated his recovery time after Doha, and they should have been more circumspect with an early withdrawal. But then hindsight is 20:20, although you gotta admit that doing double duty in Doha was certainly NOT prudent.

From flus and viral infections one cannot recover withour REST, medication alone won't do the job, you have also to cooperate. Nadal MOST LIKELY DID train, in the week between Doha and AO, when he should've rested. Of course there are flu's of all sorts, some more aggressive than the others, but it looked like Nadal was not fully healed and perhaps just felt better and went ahead with the preparation for this event.

If Nadal doesn't recover within this tournament (which is likely), then he probably won't make the final to face Federer. He's going to have to beat THREE tremendously fit players to make the final.

The minute he loses his first set, his confidence is going to plummet knowing he can't rely on his fitness. It's like Roddick without his serve or Murray without his movement, they rely on that to compete, and if they don't have it, their will is broken.

Nadal relies on his physicality to be able to outlast anyone. This probably explains why Nadal was so tentative in the 2nd set against Tomic, even though he had won the first set.

 

[Eternally_damned]

For *********s, unless Nadal wins 6-0,6-0,6-0, he didn't play his best and is likely suffering physically in some manner.

 

[Bud]

i doubt cilic will beat nadal. he played 5 with isner and went 4 hrs and 55 min. he's got to be a bit tired from that.

that being said ill be rooting for cilic.

Witnessing the Tomic match, it would not surprise me if Nadal went out next round.

The energy and passion are just not happening for one reason or another. It may be aftereffects of the flu, burnout, etc. Who knows... but the fire just isn't burning bright.

I sure hope he goes into the QF but not expecting it at this point.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Only ignorant people say that. Nadal's injury came at the end of the second set, Murray played better the big points up until that point but everybody knows that Murray beat Nadal and that Rafa's injury was a separate event.

Well than all the analysts must be ignorant. No shock there. But all they refer to last year is Nadal retiring due to injury, and not the great match Murray was playing up to that point.

On this one, did it ever occur to you that Nadal actually felt good when the tourney started but then started having symptoms again? Anybody who's had a cold knows that you may feel good and then worse. It's different with everyone.

I don't know what Nadal says at the beginning of the tourney, he may tell the truth, he may be lying. All I know is that Nadal has been sweating buckets this whole tourney, even moreso in this tomic NIGHT MATCH, today he looked very,very sluggish from the first point, lost almost three freaking kilos in a three setter:shock: and sounded congested still in his car interview. Those are all signs of a dude that still suffers from the effects of the bug he had.

That is all.

Again, I'm not saying he's not sick. Just disagree which the extent the sickness may be affecting him. Of course we all know what having a cold is like, and how these things change from day to day. I don't doubt that. But to me it's still on Rafa to manage these things better. It's his own fault that he's sick. He knew he was sick and Doha and played on, now it's seemingly biting him. He'll never admit to his own stupidity in these things. Anytime he's injured it's the schedule instead of him. And here it is again.

 

[meg0529]

Good post. I pretty much agree with everything. As I said before, at the top level it's a game of inches. Even a 5% drop can take you out of contention.

When Nadal had his knee problems it took him so long to recover. Not because he didn't recover physically, but because he lost soo much ground and effectively 2 slams + his #1 and #2. Ditto for Federer: While the effects of the mono would be gone before the F.O/Wimb - he would have lost that confidence and perhaps it would take his body some extra time to recover back to 100% movement and speed. I mean it's obvious to everyone, that Fed plays much better NOW than what he did in Fall 2008.

I guess part of being able to win grad slams is being in your best shape physically. And if you are NOT, and you lose, TOO BAD. It's certainly NOT an excuse - not for Nadal and not even for Federer.

Coming back to Nadal -

It seems that Nadal's team miscalculated his recovery time after Doha, and they should have been more circumspect with an early withdrawal. But then hindsight is 20:20, although you gotta admit that doing double duty in Doha was certainly NOT prudent.

From flus and viral infections one cannot recover withour REST, medication alone won't do the job, you have also to cooperate. Nadal MOST LIKELY DID train, in the week between Doha and AO, when he should've rested. Of course there are flu's of all sorts, some more aggressive than the others, but it looked like Nadal was not fully healed and perhaps just felt better and went ahead with the preparation for this event.

If Nadal doesn't recover within this tournament (which is likely), then he probably won't make the final to face Federer. He's going to have to beat THREE tremendously fit players to make the final.

The minute he loses his first set, his confidence is going to plummet knowing he can't rely on his fitness. It's like Roddick without his serve or Murray without his movement, they rely on that to compete, and if they don't have it, their will is broken.

Nadal relies on his physicality to be able to outlast anyone. This probably explains why Nadal was so tentative in the 2nd set against Tomic, even though he had won the first set.

This is a good post, but I'm in two minds about Nadal's condition. I mean the sweat is undeniable, but I just re-watched the match(painful experience lol) and he didn't look as fatigued as he did, frustrated. His firsts serve was just not going in. These two bits from his presser are encouraging for me.

Q. Do you feel like you played well tonight?
RAFAEL NADAL: No, I don't think so. I didn't play well tonight. I played short. The movements wasn't the best. The position on court wasn't the best neither.
So the positive thing that the attitude was good all the time. That's true. Even with the 4‑0, I keep fighting for the second. And for moments I did something good in the third. I went to the net more than before, so that's positive thing.
But I have to change a few things if I really want to have chances to win the next match, and I gonna do it.

The fact that he came back from 4-0 down, even if Tomic's level dropped a bit, is key here. He's not letting up, and I KNOW he will work harder to prep himself for the next match.

Q. You said you don't have a fever anymore, but the body is getting tired. Are you concerned in the next week the body might not be ready for five sets after five sets?
RAFAEL NADAL: I don't know. Hopefully I gonna improve. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. I am doing all that I can. I am working, I am resting. I can't do more, no? If I don't feel perfect, it's not my fault. It's day of today. All I can say is keep fighting. I have the (indiscernible) here, my biscuits, for the problem maybe. If I eat more, maybe I am better next week.

He isn't stating that he was tired today, he said he gets tired in practice sessions. I still think it was an off day. Nadal has been playing really odd players, with different crappy games, that he has to adjust himself to. He will be playing Cilic next and that will really tell where he's at.
If this is an off day, it couldn't have come at a better time, an off day against Murray or any other top guy, would have been the end of it. I actually thing it's a blessing Tomic took out feli, lol. I bet Feli would have taken him out.

 

[NadalForehand]

Guys don't worry, it's wake up call for Nadal. He will come up with goods in next match. Cilic is already played 5 sets match. he wont have fire power. 80% fit Nadal can win that match. He will get better before SF and Final matches.

 

[TennisFan3]

Witnessing the Tomic match, it would not surprise me if Nadal went out next round.

The energy and passion are just not happening for one reason or another. It may be aftereffects of the flu, burnout, etc. Who knows... but the fire just isn't burning bright.

I sure hope he goes into the QF but not expecting it at this point.

I agree. At this point, even Cilic looks very hard for Nadal.. I mean if Tomic had taken his chances when they were handed to him, Nadal probably would have lost. Rafa won a lot of points through errors by Tomic as well, so in some way he was lucky, that Tomic is totally inexperienced at the top level. So unless Cilic is fatigued (and he said he was not coz against Isner there were no rallies) , it could be a VERY competitive match, and one in which Nadal could very well lose.

Anyway, I would say that Nadal should much prefer losing early in AO than to go ahead and jeopardise his health in order to win the AO. He needs to seriously find out his health status before deciding to continue play. Who knows, he might be coming down with "mono"

An AO loss might not be so important in the larger scheme of things. What is crucial is that he does NOT push himself too much there at the risk of sidelining his campaign to defend his three GSlam shields later in the year. Coz if he's not careful, he could be in trouble for the loaded clay and grass calender which is traditionally the MOST demanding for all players. And obviously the #1 would change hands, coz you can be sure Federer would be ready to win the slams, when Nadal goes out..

 

[TennisFan3]

This is a good post, but I'm in two minds about Nadal's condition. I mean the sweat is undeniable, but I just re-watched the match(painful experience lol) and he didn't look as fatigued as he did, frustrated. His firsts serve was just not going in. These two bits from his presser are encouraging for me.


The fact that he came back from 4-0 down, even if Tomic's level dropped a bit, is key here. He's not letting up, and I KNOW he will work harder to prep himself for the next match.


He isn't stating that he was tired today, he said he gets tired in practice sessions. I still think it was an off day. Nadal has been playing really odd players, with different crappy games, that he has to adjust himself to. He will be playing Cilic next and that will really tell where he's at.

Good post. Who know what will happen later in the tournament. But like I said before, unless Nadal gets pushed he won't know his fines. For ex, he didn't look too bad against Gulbis in Doha. But against Davy, who made him run side to side, he suffered.

Of course players have played, and sometimes WON, slams with an injury/illness. Pete Sampras did it before with several shin splints. Nadal is obviously a fighter, and he will try recover.

Strangely, I would say the best course for him is to throw caution to the wind i.e become super aggressive and try close matches quickly. Now this will at least work against the lower ranked players. If he can win a match or two easily , perhaps he could be better later in the tournament. But what is clear, is that he can't afford to defend and out-grind his opponents...

 

[bolo]

"Yeah, is more difficult and the same time is have better value, I think"

"I have the (indiscernible) here, my biscuits, for the problem maybe. If I eat more, maybe I am better next week."

Good words from the interview. I really like these hard court matches where he just gets run ragged because of his clay court origins.

 

[rovex]

Rafa became the sickness of the FLU. This year. Rafa became the disease of lungs. still. always love Rafa.

 

[meg0529]

"Yeah, is more difficult and the same time is have better value, I think"

"I have the (indiscernible) here, my biscuits, for the problem maybe. If I eat more, maybe I am better next week."

Good words from the interview. I really like these hard court matches where he just gets run ragged because of his clay court origins.

People have started calling those Quelys his Scooby snacks. LOL

 

[bolo]

People have started calling those Quelys his Scooby snacks. LOL

lol. 10 char.

 

[TennisFan3]

Rafa became the sickness of the FLU. This year. Rafa became the disease of lungs. still. always love Rafa.

LOL. But, in an extreme case, it could be very well that Nadal's sickness has become a viral infection of mononucleosis (Mono). The kind that Fed had

Nadal said he took antiobiotics in Doha for treatment, but if it was viral, the antiobiotics would not help, coz they only help with bacterial infections, which are more common. Viral always take longer to recover, and it takes out your energy, makes you feel weaker and sweat too much. This is what happened with Federer. Obviously an extreme case of viral is mono or several of the other numerous infections.

The only thing is REST, until the body recovers - there's nothing else to be done. So perhaps Nadal does not have much choice..

 

[Benhur]

LOL. But, in an extreme case, it could be very well that Nadal's sickness has become a viral infection of mononucleosis (Mono).

Nadal said he took antiobiotics in Doha for treatment, but if it was viral, the antiobiotics would not help, coz they only help with bacterial infections, which are more common. Viral always take longer to recover, and it takes out your energy, makes you feel weaker and sweat too much. This is what happened with Federer. Obviously an extreme case of viral is mono or several of the other numerous infections.

The only thing is REST, until the body recovers - there's nothing else to be done. So perhaps Nadal does not have much choice..

Nadal is no longer sick, but it's common to feel weak and to tire more easily for up to two or three weaks after you've had a bad case of the flu. Depends a lot what kind of flu. Some of them leave you drained for quite a while. He did look a bit sluggish out there, and he certainly didn't win without breaking a sweat today. In retrospect, he should have withrwawn from Doha and concentrated on resting up.

Well, at least he's been lucky that his first two opponents in this tournament didn't have the tools to keep him on court very long.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Jesus Christ guys, relax. Nadal doesn't have to steamroll everyone, and he isn't some god or something that doesn't get sick or have off days. He will raise his level and beat Cilic, with or without the flu after effects. Calm down.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

Once I start recovering from a cold, I never feel bad again.

And what kind of exhausting exercise did you put yourself through to know that for certain?

 

[Netspirit]

Nadal beat Tomic by using essentially one trick - the backhand slice down the line.

Tomic would always - always - slice it back. So Nadal could always reset a point and start anew from an offensive position.

No idea why Tomic cannot deal with low slices more aggressively. Maybe he hits too flat for that particular shot to be successful.

 

[bolo]

And what kind of exhausting exercise did you put yourself through to know that for certain?

The exercise is called cake-eating. I am not tired at all after all that cake I just ate says eternally_damned.

 

[Eternally_damned]

And what kind of exhausting exercise did you put yourself through to know that for certain?

sexual intercourse

 

[Outbeyond]

sexual intercourse

oh, eternally...now you don't really expect us to believe that, do you?:twisted:

 

[veroniquem]

LOL. But, in an extreme case, it could be very well that Nadal's sickness has become a viral infection of mononucleosis (Mono). The kind that Fed had

Nadal said he took antiobiotics in Doha for treatment, but if it was viral, the antiobiotics would not help, coz they only help with bacterial infections, which are more common. Viral always take longer to recover, and it takes out your energy, makes you feel weaker and sweat too much. This is what happened with Federer. Obviously an extreme case of viral is mono or several of the other numerous infections.

The only thing is REST, until the body recovers - there's nothing else to be done. So perhaps Nadal does not have much choice..

Totally agree. From the symptoms Rafa describes, it seems to be viral.
And if he has to rest, grand slam or not, there is nothing he or anyone else can do about it. One just has to accept.

 

[veroniquem]

BERNARD TOMIC: He says, Very good play, keep working hard in the future. That's something I'll take from a player like that. He's a true champion. Very nice to get that advice from him.

Ah what a nice quote!

 

[Messarger]

Jesus Christ guys, relax. Nadal doesn't have to steamroll everyone, and he isn't some god or something that doesn't get sick or have off days. He will raise his level and beat Cilic, with or without the flu after effects. Calm down.

What makes you think the sickness will be gone before the Cilic match? No one is expecting him to triple bagel Tomic, but no one was expecting him to go 0-4 down as well...

 

[TheTruth]

Holmes: Hmmm, not sure about that. I mentioned before the tournament started that I've a feeling neither of them will win it this year. Whether Ralph is still ill or not, or whether Roger is more aggressive or not, I just think we'll have a different champion at the AO.

I've had the exact same feeling even before the tournament started.