Are Djokovic and Nadal peaking?

peaking?


  • Total voters
    31

Lew II

Hall of Fame
#1
Djokovic and Nadal are nearly 32/33 years old. In the last 4 Slams they lost only once each to other players. They also won 5 of the last 7 masters.

Are they peaking or weak era?
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
#9
Nadal definitely not. Struggled at the USO (against some admittedly tough players), got thrashed in the AO final and even at the FO while he was dominant that was more about the weakness of the draw than his level of play on this occasion IMO. The only slam where he may have been peaking was Wimbledon IMO.

Djokovic is clearly more vulnerable than 2011 and 2015/2016. I'd say no because he doesn't have the consistency of peak Djokovic across the entire tour. Though he threw in peak performances at the AO.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
#11
Nadal definitely not. Struggled at the USO (against some admittedly tough players), got thrashed in the AO final and even at the FO while he was dominant that was more about the weakness of the draw than his level of play on this occasion IMO. The only slam where he may have been peaking was Wimbledon IMO.

Djokovic is clearly more vulnerable than 2011 and 2015/2016. I'd say no because he doesn't have the consistency of peak Djokovic across the entire tour. Though he threw in peak performances at the AO.
Peak Djokovic wasn't just 2011 and 2015-16. In 2012-14 he was peak as well. Do you think he is now inferior to those versions?

Same for Nadal: Do you think his 2017-19 version is inferior to any of his 2008-14 versions?
 
#12
Peak Djokovic wasn't just 2011 and 2015-16. In 2012-14 he was peak as well. Do you think he is now inferior to those versions?

Same for Nadal: Do you think his 2017-19 version is inferior to any of his 2008-14 versions?
Nadal is a bit slower, but his shots are deeper. If he keeps losing to Federer this IW, I will say he is past prime, since he mainly defeated Federer in the past because of his defensive skills/speed.

Djokovic is also a bit slower but he did not need to run at the AO, since Nadal's weak shots typically didn't pass the service line and were put in the centre, rather than the corners.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
#13
Peak Djokovic wasn't just 2011 and 2015-16. In 2012-14 he was peak as well. Do you think he is now inferior to those versions?

Same for Nadal: Do you think his 2017-19 version is inferior to any of his 2008-14 versions?
I guess you could call 2012-2014 peak Djokovic, I have in the past but those years were clearly below the other years I mentioned (except the back end of 2016). Sort of like how I see 2004-2007 being peak Federer but 08-12 still in general being good years. At the slam level 2018-2019 Djokovic may be better than those versions overall, outside of them he's definitely looking worse. Slam results are more important so maybe it could be argued he's a bit better but we need to see where he is on clay still.

On Nadal I do think his 2017-2019 version is overall inferior to most of his 2008-2014 versions.
 
#14
I guess you could call 2012-2014 peak Djokovic, I have in the past but those years were clearly below the other years I mentioned (except the back end of 2016). Sort of like how I see 2004-2007 being peak Federer but 08-12 still in general being good years. At the slam level 2018-2019 Djokovic may be better than those versions overall, outside of them he's definitely looking worse. Slam results are more important so maybe it could be argued he's a bit better but we need to see where he is on clay still.

On Nadal I do think his 2017-2019 version is overall inferior to most of his 2008-2014 versions.
I don't see any difference between 2007 and 2008-2009 Federer except the fact that he faced an in form Nadal. Federer was affected by mononucleosis at the beginning of 2008, but he receied medical clearance to play normally the 26th of February of 2008. The Wimbledon 2008 final was played more than four months after Federer recieved Medical clearance to play normally. He reached the final without droppong any set and didn't look less fast than in 2007. Even the 2007 Wimbledon final was really close and Nadal has 4 break points in the 5th set. Federer was 26 years old and 100% at his best in the Wimbledln 2008 final. He is not unbeatable, no need for excuses. He later won his last US Open in 2008. At the AO 2009 Federer was only 27 years old and at his best: he just faced an in form Nadal. In 2009 he won his only RG destroying Delpo and Soderling and then won another Wimbledon so hard to see that as decline.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
#15
I guess you could call 2012-2014 peak Djokovic, I have in the past but those years were clearly below the other years I mentioned (except the back end of 2016). Sort of like how I see 2004-2007 being peak Federer but 08-12 still in general being good years. At the slam level 2018-2019 Djokovic may be better than those versions overall, outside of them he's definitely looking worse. Slam results are more important so maybe it could be argued he's a bit better but we need to see where he is on clay still.

On Nadal I do think his 2017-2019 version is overall inferior to most of his 2008-2014 versions.
No player wins all matches in his peak, especially when facing great opponents.

Calling a player peak only when he wins is a bit childish.
 
#16
Nadal is a bit slower, but his shots are deeper. If he keeps losing to Federer this IW, I will say he is past prime, since he mainly defeated Federer in the past because of his defensive skills/speed.

Djokovic is also a bit slower but he did not need to run at the AO, since Nadal's weak shots typically didn't pass the service line and were put in the centre, rather than the corners.
Nadal in the AO19 final is the strangest version I can recall seing. Utter disbelief in every cell of his body. It was bizarre to see him bend over without a fight. Definitely not peak Nadal, and let's keep it real; he had been away for many months prior to that tournament. He looks more comfortable right now, at least to me. Djokovic is nowhere near his 2015 level, and has never been since.
 
#17
Nadal in the AO19 final is the strangest version I can recall seing. Utter disbelief in every cell of his body. It was bizarre to see him bend over without a fight. Definitely not peak Nadal, and let's keep it real; he had been away for many months prior to that tournament. He looks more comfortable right now, at least to me. Djokovic is nowhere near his 2015 level, and has never been since.
Yes, he looked again fast against Schwartmann. Not like the 2005-2013 demon, but still 2017/2018 level. As you said, the AO 2019 Nadal was the slower Nadal ever. He said he was not training defensive skills and focused on his new serve and attack. The lack of rhytm was noticieable.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
#20
I don't see any difference between 2007 and 2008-2009 Federer except the fact that he faced an in form Nadal. Federer was affected by mononucleosis at the beginning of 2008, but he receied medical clearance to play normally the 26th of February of 2008. The Wimbledon 2008 final was played more than four months after Federer recieved Medical clearance to play normally. He reached the final without droppong any set and didn't look less fast than in 2007. Even the 2007 Wimbledon final was really close and Nadal has 4 break points in the 5th set. Federer was 26 years old and 100% at his best in the Wimbledln 2008 final. He is not unbeatable, no need for excuses. He later won his last US Open in 2008. At the AO 2009 Federer was only 27 years old and at his best: he just faced an in form Nadal. In 2009 he won his only RG destroying Delpo and Soderling and then won another Wimbledon so hard to see that as decline.
Do I need to repeat my statement from a couple of days ago?

Also Nadal was in form in 2007, the only difference is that Federer was still at his peak :rolleyes:
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
#21
No player wins all matches in his peak, especially when facing great opponents.

Calling a player peak only when he wins is a bit childish.
I call a player peak when they're consistently playing their best tennis, IMO Nadal definitely isn't the past 12 months. Djokovic is more debatable but in general I don't think he's quite there as he'd had some very listless losses outside of the slams - which didn't happen in his best years.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
#22
Do I need to repeat my statement from a couple of days ago?

Also Nadal was in form in 2007, the only difference is that Federer was still at his peak :rolleyes:
Federer in the post-match interview at Wimbledon 2007 said "Nadal is improving so fast, soon he will win them all".
 
#25
Federer had been away even longer before AO 2017, arguably the greatest Slam of his career.
Nadal was out for a long time, withdrew from lots of tournaments - perhaps he was not able to work on his recovery the way he wanted to?

He withdrew from Brisbane, to be able to play in Australian Open...
 

Towny

Professional
#26
Calling a player peak only when he wins is a bit childish.
Then on what basis do you call a player peak? You just said in the OP Djokodal might be peak as they have won against the rest of the field in every slam but one of the last 4. So basically, they won a lot.

In answer to the OP, neither of them are at their peak, but that doesn't mean they aren't capable of putting in peak level performances. The AO final was a very high level, undeniably. But outside of that, Djokovic has been lacklustre since Shanghai, losing to Khachanov, Zverev, Bautista Agut and now Kohlschreiber. Djokovic 2015 didn't have those kinds of losses, bar a single loss to Karlovic in Doha.

Nadal likewise is not at his best either although clearly playing good tennis. But he shouldn't be expected to be peaking at nearly 33 years old.
 
#27
Do I need to repeat my statement from a couple of days ago?

Also Nadal was in form in 2007, the only difference is that Federer was still at his peak :rolleyes:
? No. The only difference is that no one is unbeatable. No need for excuses. Federer won Wimbledon 2006 and Wimbledon 2007 and Nadal won Wimbledon 2008. Losses happen in the sport. Also, the Wimbledon 2007 final was already kinda close. Nadal had 4 break points in the 5th set.
 
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NatF

Bionic Poster
#28
? No. The only difference is that no one is unbeatable. No need for excuses. Federer won Wimbledon 2006 and Wimbledon 2007 and Nadal won Wimbledon 2008. Losses happen in the sport.
You are of course talking out of you backside. Save the strawman arguments it's not about being unbeatable, never said that - the fact is Federer was noticeably worse even outside of his losses to Nadal that year. Guy didn't make a HC masters final all year for PETE's sake.

I have no problem saying Nadal wasn't peak at Wimbledon in 2006 - I'd call it part of his prime though, likewise I'd call 2008 Federer prime at least at the slams when he wasn't sick.
 
#29
You are of course talking out of you backside. Save the strawman arguments it's not about being unbeatable, never said that - the fact is Federer was noticeably worse even outside of his losses to Nadal that year. Guy didn't make a HC masters final all year for PETE's sake.

I have no problem saying Nadal wasn't peak at Wimbledon in 2006 - I'd call it part of his prime though, likewise I'd call 2008 Federer prime at least at the slams when he wasn't sick.
Excuses. Federer was perfect at the Wimbledon 2008 final. He just lost because no one is unbeatable. The Wimbledon 2007 final was already kinda close, with Nadal having 4 break points in the 5th set.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
#30
Excuses. Federer was perfect at the Wimbledon 2008 final. He just lost because no one is unbeatable. The Wimbledon 2007 final was already kinda close, with Nadal having 4 break points in the 5th set.
Excuses is the go to word for guys without the ability to actually discuss things on a deeper level...

Federer was far from perfect in the Wimbledon final, like he was far from perfect in 2007 as well - in general perfect matches are extremely rare. He was very good in the 2008 final aside from a slow and tentative start. Also besides that, even if he did play a peak match in the Wimbledon final he was far from his best for most of the year...
 
#32
Nadal in the AO19 final is the strangest version I can recall seing. Utter disbelief in every cell of his body. It was bizarre to see him bend over without a fight. Definitely not peak Nadal, and let's keep it real; he had been away for many months prior to that tournament. He looks more comfortable right now, at least to me. Djokovic is nowhere near his 2015 level, and has never been since.
Some good points there....Can't figure out where Nadal is at the moment....His game has improved I feel and he was playing possibly his best ever HC tennis in the first 6 matches of AO...He looks fantastic in IW also....His backhand is better than ever/his serve is better than usual - he is playing more aggressively...I feel he is playing and beating the lesser players easier/quicker than ever before on HC.....Obviously he is slower these days but that's age....Then we arrive at the AO Final - I don't subscribe to the opinion Nole was playing incredible or Rafa wasn't ready match wise....Rafa was AWFUL and was beaten before he went on court - his second or 3rd shot spoke volumes to me - mentally he was way off....So he seems to be beating the lower players easier than ever buy I have no idea where he is with Nole/Fed.....Hence it is all a bit confusing...
 
#36
Nadals shotmaking is better than it ever was. He is so complete now. His movement is not the same (for the injuries he has suffered, but also he seems heavier to me, he seems to have put on some mass).

Nadal has played unbelieveable tennis on HC for the past weeks and is trashing his opponents. His grass performance last year was some of the best I've seen from him aswell.

Djokovic showed in AO when he put up an all time high performance, putting aside his horrendous performance against kohly, he is

45-4 since Wimbledon 18.
Also lost to top 10 only once, and won 15+ matches against top 10.

He has been incredibly consistent but also putting up all time level stuff, and he is still moving like a Gazelle.

Are they peaking? As a whole, it's tuff to say, they aren't peaking in every aspect of the game, but they are definitely better tennis players now with higher IQ.
 
#37
If Nadal gets his movement and mobility in tip top shape, I can see him win alot this year. What I've seen from Nadal this year, he will be extremely dangerous going forward.
 
#41
Big if. We will see though.
I think this might be one of the most dominant clay season in his whole career tbh. The intensity, the aggressive mindset, the focus at the AO and in IW up until now, are very encouraging for the next couple of months, to say the least.
 
#44
Eh, I wouldn't say they're peaking. They're having resurgences, such as Federer in 2017. Part of it is due to them playing really well; part of it is due to someone like Zverev being the next best player after them lol. Honestly, though, it's really hard to determine peak level objectively so I'd prefer to leave this question alone
 
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