Are Fed's serve and return game: Comparing 2015 and 2005

[Nadalgaenger]

Fed's serve and return in 2015 were basically awesome.

Here are some stats:
1st serve points won: 80%
2nd serve points won: 57%
Service games won: 92%
Return games won: 27%

Let's compare that with 2005:
1st serve points won: 76%
2nd serve points won: 59%
Service games won: 89%
Return games won: 31%

Now the serving stats speak for themselves. We'd all agree (hopefully) that Fed's ground game, speed, and overall level was higher in 2005. The only logical conclusion is that he is did more with less by winning a higher percentage of service games in 2015 than in his prime.

With regard to return games, can we still argue that the quality and variety of Fed's return game is better than ever? His stats don't show it but again he is achieving percentages close to his prime even though his ground game is not as good. Once the point starts, Fed 2005 is considerably stronger than Fed 2015, so it is logical to assume that Fed 2015 had to compensate with better quality returns.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

I agree with all of it. Federer has to play smarter today because he doesn't have the physical advantage like he used to in the same way.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

No doubt the larger frame helps somewhat on the return.

 

[metsman]

Seems like everyone's stats were inflated last year. Gee I wonder why...

Fed's serve day to day is better now. His return and ground game are much worse. And plus peak implies bringing your best against the best. Fed served the lights out in the Wimby and USO finals in 05 (At Wimby the percentage was a little low but excellent placement). Not so much in 2015 despite having the better day to day serve.

27% and 31% games won on return is a massive difference especially when Fed was on cruise control most of the time in 05 especially outside slams. There's really no way to argue his return was even close to comparable in 05. The guy made returning 125+ mph serves look routine in 2005 whereas he was netting every third second serve from Djokovic in those slam finals it seemed particularly Wimbledon and against bigger first serves the slice floated much more versus 05 where he stuck the ball.

 

[metsman]

I agree with all of it. Federer has to play smarter today because he doesn't have the physical advantage like he used to in the same way.

And yet against djokovic he doesn't. His strategy sucks against him most of the time. Baseline bashing with him instead of taking the first opportunity he sees with his forehand and movement. Also, why did his serve seem so ineffective in the Wimby final? Part of it was Djokovic's excellent returning but part of it was I felt that Federer was sacrificing power and precision to just get the ball in. Lost of 115's not that close to lines that Djokovic was eating up. Crappy serve in the USO final too which was just gut wrenching given how even he was on the return.

It was just so perplexing after the legendary serving day he had against Murray and his serving in the 14 Wimby final where he was able to get a high percentage as well as effectiveness with the serve that he did what he did in the Wimby final. Probably mental but I really feel like he does himself no favors with his strategy against Djokovic either.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

And yet against djokovic he doesn't. His strategy sucks against him most of the time. Baseline bashing with him instead of taking the first opportunity he sees with his forehand and movement. Also, why did his serve seem so ineffective in the Wimby final? Part of it was Djokovic's excellent returning but part of it was I felt that Federer was sacrificing power and precision to just get the ball in. Lost of 115's not that close to lines that Djokovic was eating up. Crappy serve in the USO final too which was just gut wrenching given how even he was on the return.

It was just so perplexing after the legendary serving day he had against Murray and his serving in the 14 Wimby final where he was able to get a high percentage as well as effectiveness with the serve that he did what he did in the Wimby final. Probably mental but I really feel like he does himself no favors with his strategy against Djokovic either.

Yeah, you're right. I actually thought he played good tennis in the US Open final but on the break points he played the opposite of smart. 4/23 or what is was... Horrible. Could have won that final.

 

[metsman]

Yeah, you're right. I actually thought he played good tennis in the US Open final but on the break points he played the opposite of smart. 4/23 or what is was... Horrible. Could have won that final.

didn't serve too well either. 64% is decent but 11 aces 5 doubles 71% first serve points won is...not good.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

didn't serve too well either. 64% is decent but 11 aces 5 doubles 71% first serve points won is...not good.

A part of it has to do with Djokovic being the returner he is. I hope he can produce the same type of serving in a possible future slam final like he did against Murray in the semis of Wimbledon. That along with a greater break point conversation can seal the deal against anyone at Wimbledon.

 

[metsman]

A part of it has to do with Djokovic being the returner he is. I hope he can produce the same type of serving in a possible future slam final like he did against Murray in the semis of Wimbledon. That along with a greater break point conversation can seal the deal against anyone at Wimbledon.

of course Djokovic's returning must be factored but given that Federer has had outstanding serving days against Djokovic before in slams and even in 2015 in B03 matches I'm inclined to think it was more on Federer's end.

 

[Nonsense]

of course Djokovic's returning must be factored but given that Federer has had outstanding serving days against Djokovic before in slams and even in 2015 in B03 matches I'm inclined to think it was more on Federer's end.

Maybe Novak wasn't having great returning days then?

It's always a combination of the two though.