Are Nadal's successes really more iconic than Djokovic's?

[Winner Sinner]

Now that Nadal has announced his retirement, the idea that he was the player with the highest number of iconic matches won has come back into fashion. Obviously, first of all, the 2008 Wimbledon final against Federer, but also for example the one against Medvedev at the 2022 Australian Open. Yet, thinking back over the careers of the big three, I think that of the 3, Djokovic was the one with the highest number of iconic matches won, which I will try to list some of;

2011 Sf Us Open;
The match where he saved 2 match points in response to Federer in the fifth set.

2012 Australian Open Final;
A battle that lasted almost 6 hours against Nadal to win the seventh consecutive direct clash.

Qf Australian Open 2013;
Vs Wawrinka, no holds barred battle part 2.

Monte Carlo 2013 final;
Against Nadal where he interrupted the Mallorcan's infinite hegemony in the Principality of Monaco.

Sf Wimbledon 2018;
 Another battle against Nadal decided in the fifth set, the day of Djokovic's definitive resurrection after two complicated years.

Wimbledon 2019 final;
Against Federer, need we say more?

Australian Open 2020 final;
The day Thiem put him in serious difficulty by going 2-1 ahead but the Serbian came out of it like a seasoned champion.

Sf Roland Garros 2021;
Another battle with Nadal, after being bullied in the first set he overturns the inertia of the match in an infinite third set and then closes it in 4 interrupting a streak of successes of the Spaniard in the Parisian slam that had lasted since 2017.

Roland Garros 2021 final;
He wins his second slam title on clay by coming back against Tsitsipas from a 2-0 disadvantage, a rarity.

Paris-Bercy 2021 final;
Against Medvedev, the Russian had recently given him the disappointment in the final of the US Open denying him the grand slam, the first set seems like the continuation of the New York final, but once again Djokovic finds the strength to react by winning the match and the tournament.

Cincinnati 2023 final;
Against Alcaraz, a memorable battle in which the Serbian in the second set already down by one found himself with his back to the wall several times but once again managed to turn it around immediately avenging the defeat in the Wimbledon final.

Paris 2024 Olympic final;
Here too there is no need to add anything else regarding what can be defined as the most iconic match of his career, a fairytale story brought to completion thanks to an unmistakable force of will against the opponent who a few weeks earlier had humiliated him in the Wimbledon final.

So no, the bearer of the most iconic matches won I think is Djokovic. What do you think?

 

[Donmikan]

We might as well start discussing T-Rex vs Stegosaurus...

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

Djokovic , nothing tops his achievements at any level (slams,WTF,masters) and he achieved it against hostile crowds and media .

 

[Razer]

Most Iconic Wins at AO for

Djokovic - AO 2012
Nadal - AO 2009
Federer - AO 2017

Most Iconic Wins at FO for

Djokovic - FO 2021
Nadal - FO 2008
Federer - FO 2009


Most Iconic Wins at W for

Djokovic - W 2019
Nadal - W 2008
Federer - W 2009


Most Iconic Wins at USO for

Djokovic - USO 2011
Nadal - USO 2010
Federer - USO 2004

So this is a matter of who you ask, all 3 have iconic wins. Djokovic and Nadal will obviously have more wins over Federer since they are younger and he is older, his peak years were before their. Except the US Open 2004 all of Federer wins came outside his peak, so obviously it is hard to compare like that.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Most Iconic Wins at AO for

Djokovic - AO 2012
Nadal - AO 2009
Federer - AO 2017

Most Iconic Wins at FO for

Djokovic - FO 2021
Nadal - FO 2008
Federer - FO 2009


Most Iconic Wins at W for

Djokovic - W 2019
Nadal - W 2008
Federer - W 2009


Most Iconic Wins at USO for

Djokovic - USO 2011
Nadal - USO 2010
Federer - USO 2004

So this is a matter of who you ask, all 3 have iconic wins. Djokovic and Nadal will obviously have more wins over Federer since they are younger and he is older, his peak years were before their. Except the US Open 2004 all of Federer wins came outside his peak, so obviously it is hard to compare like that.

But I meant individual matches, not individual tournaments. And in any case by iconicity I mean those epic moments generated by rare circumstances such as long battles, matches won after being one step away from the abyss, or great rematches or more simply broken taboos. For example, always as a fan of Sinner, I believe that the most iconic match of his still young career given the requirements is his victory against Djokovic in the Davis Cup.

 

[Sport]

Deleted.

 

[Razer]

I disagree. No way is FO 2021 more epic than F 2008. I don't think losing 5 sets to Mugsetti and 5 sets to Tsitsipas, and beating an injured and old Nadal is more epic than winning the tournament without losing any set, beating Djokovic and Federer back to back and displaying arguably the most impressive match in terms of peak level at the surface in the iconic final.

As for W 2008 vs. W 2019, how can it be more epic beating a 37 years old Federer who was on his last legs than beating a 26 years old Federer who was at the height of his powers?

I think this post of you is surprising, considering you're always a great poster who offers insightful views.

When did I say French Open 2021 is more iconic than french open 2008 ?
Who said W 2008 is more iconic than W 2019 ?

I only listed the most iconic tournaments for the big 3 at each slam.

But I meant individual matches, not individual tournaments. And in any case by iconicity I mean those epic moments generated by rare circumstances such as long battles, matches won after being one step away from the abyss, or great rematches or more simply broken taboos. For example, always as a fan of Sinner, I believe that the most iconic match of his still young career given the requirements is his victory against Djokovic in the Davis Cup.

Individual matches cannot be iconic, whats the use of winning a match if you lose the next ? Grand Slam finals are always where you are tested if you are an ATG, peak levels are also judged by performance in big matches in the final which is the main event. Reaching too many finals and losing is also a minus point.

 

[Winner Sinner]

When did I say French Open 2021 is more iconic than french open 2008 ?
Who said W 2008 is more iconic than W 2019 ?

I only listed the most iconic tournaments for the big 3 at each slam.



Individual matches cannot be iconic, whats the use of winning a match if you lose the next ? Grand Slam finals are always where you are tested if you are an ATG, peak levels are also judged by performance in big matches in the final which is the main event. Reaching too many finals and losing is also a minus point.

You can argue your point of view, but in any case in my list made in the preview commentary of the most iconic Djokovic matches are all matches within tournaments that he won. And no, obviously slams take precedence over everything, but even outside of slams iconic matches can be generated. Last year the final in Cincinnati was judged the best of the season, a match that will be remembered more in 2023 than those that took place in the slams. Let's not even talk about the Olympic final against Alcaraz, where the circumstances and intensity of the match generated one of the most iconic moments not in Djokovic's career but in the history of tennis. Anyone who watched that match will never forget it, and since it was the Olympic context with a more general audience, I think it contributed to bringing even more people, young people in particular, closer to tennis. Iconicity has something immortal about it.

 

[Biotic]

Now that Nadal has announced his retirement, the idea that he was the player with the highest number of iconic matches won has come back into fashion. Obviously, first of all, the 2008 Wimbledon final against Federer, but also for example the one against Medvedev at the 2022 Australian Open. Yet, thinking back over the careers of the big three, I think that of the 3, Djokovic was the one with the highest number of iconic matches won, which I will try to list some of;

2011 Sf Us Open;
The match where he saved 2 match points in response to Federer in the fifth set.

2012 Australian Open Final;
A battle that lasted almost 6 hours against Nadal to win the seventh consecutive direct clash.

Qf Australian Open 2013;
Vs Wawrinka, no holds barred battle part 2.

Monte Carlo 2013 final;
Against Nadal where he interrupted the Mallorcan's infinite hegemony in the Principality of Monaco.

Sf Wimbledon 2018;
 Another battle against Nadal decided in the fifth set, the day of Djokovic's definitive resurrection after two complicated years.

Wimbledon 2019 final;
Against Federer, need we say more?

Australian Open 2020 final;
The day Thiem put him in serious difficulty by going 2-1 ahead but the Serbian came out of it like a seasoned champion.

Qf Roland Garros 2021;
Another battle with Nadal, after being bullied in the first set he overturns the inertia of the match in an infinite third set and then closes it in 4 interrupting a streak of successes of the Spaniard in the Parisian slam that had lasted since 2017.

Roland Garros 2021 final;
He wins his second slam title on clay by coming back against Tsitsipas from a 2-0 disadvantage, a rarity.

Paris-Bercy 2021 final;
Against Medvedev, the Russian had recently given him the disappointment in the final of the US Open denying him the grand slam, the first set seems like the continuation of the New York final, but once again Djokovic finds the strength to react by winning the match and the tournament.

Cincinnati 2023 final;
Against Alcaraz, a memorable battle in which the Serbian in the second set already down by one found himself with his back to the wall several times but once again managed to turn it around immediately avenging the defeat in the Wimbledon final.

Paris 2024 Olympic final;
Here too there is no need to add anything else regarding what can be defined as the most iconic match of his career, a fairytale story brought to completion thanks to an unmistakable force of will against the opponent who a few weeks earlier had humiliated him in the Wimbledon final.

So no, the bearer of the most iconic matches won I think is Djokovic. What do you think?

I agree with some choices, but too much recency bias regarding Djoko's matches here.

 

[Sudacafan]

Let's use the word epic instead of iconic.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Let's use the word epic instead of iconic.

Very often they are synonymous.

 

[jl809]

stopped reading when I saw AO 20 on a list of iconic moments

 

[Razer]

You can argue your point of view, but in any case in my list made in the preview commentary of the most iconic Djokovic matches are all matches within tournaments that he won. And no, obviously slams take precedence over everything, but even outside of slams iconic matches can be generated. Last year the final in Cincinnati was judged the best of the season, a match that will be remembered more in 2023 than those that took place in the slams. Let's not even talk about the Olympic final against Alcaraz, where the circumstances and intensity of the match generated one of the most iconic moments not in Djokovic's career but in the history of tennis. Anyone who watched that match will never forget it, and since it was the Olympic context with a more general audience, I think it contributed to bringing even more people, young people in particular, closer to tennis. Iconicity has something immortal about it.

Individual matches like that I guess Djokovic has the most iconic ones because he is the one who dumped the most of Federer and Nadal's legacies (cc @Rosstour), and by that measure Federer will have the least iconic matches.

I mean this is how you wanna see things, right ? Federer has more Wimbledons but are any of his wins more iconic than Nadal's 2008 wimbledon match ? Come to think of it even Wimbledon 2019 final is more iconic than any of the match wins of Federer at wimbledon if we started looking at it like that.

Iconic is always dependent on the end result buddy, Soderling's win over Nadal is now not at all iconic for him but it is iconic for Fed fans because it gave Fed the clay slam which he never could have won otherwise.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Individual matches like that I guess Djokovic has the most iconic ones because he is the one who dumped the most of Federer and Nadal's legacies (cc @Rosstour), and by that measure Federer will have the least iconic matches.

I mean this is how you wanna see things, right ? Federer has more Wimbledons but are any of his wins more iconic than Nadal's 2008 wimbledon match ? Come to think of it even Wimbledon 2019 final is more iconic than any of the match wins of Federer at wimbledon if we started looking at it like that.

Iconic is always dependent on the end result buddy, Soderling's win over Nadal is now not at all iconic for him but it is iconic for Fed fans because it gave Fed the clay slam which he never could have won otherwise.

Obviously we still don't understand each other. You mention Soderling's victory against Nadal at RG 2009, that remains an iconic match regardless of who the iconicity belongs to, Nadal is also part of it even if in that case in spite of himself. To generate iconic moments you need requirements that make the various moments special.

 

[Razer]

Obviously we still don't understand each other. You mention Soderling's victory against Nadal at RG 2009, that remains an iconic match regardless of who the iconicity belongs to, Nadal is also part of it even if in that case in spite of himself. To generate iconic moments you need requirements that make the various moments special.

Depends on who you are asking that question. Wimbledon 2008 is an iconic moment for a Nadal fan while it is a terribly bad day for a Fedfans. So whether something is iconic or not something which can be measured, diff people have diff views.

Anyway, I've said enough on this topic, have a nice day.

 

[Sport]

When did I say French Open 2021 is more iconic than french open 2008 ?
Who said W 2008 is more iconic than W 2019 ?

I only listed the most iconic tournaments for the big 3 at each slam.



Individual matches cannot be iconic, whats the use of winning a match if you lose the next ? Grand Slam finals are always where you are tested if you are an ATG, peak levels are also judged by performance in big matches in the final which is the main event. Reaching too many finals and losing is also a minus point.

My apologies, I just deleted the post, I misread your post as a ranking, when you were simply individually choosing their most succesful Slam runs.

 

[weakera]

Another needy Djokovic fan thread. All of those records and still so insecure.

 

[Oleksandr.Usyk]

Djokovic is the most impressive, because Djokovic is an underachiever. Federer and Nadal are overachievers.

 

[Winner Sinner]

edit; double post.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Depends on who you are asking that question. Wimbledon 2008 is an iconic moment for a Nadal fan while it is a terribly bad day for a Fedfans. So whether something is iconic or not something which can be measured, diff people have diff views.

Anyway, I've said enough on this topic, have a nice day.

No, the iconic moment transcends the protagonist and is limited to tennis. If we choose the most iconic moments in the history of tennis, the 2008 Wimbledon final is one of the most iconic matches in the history of tennis. In this thread I asked the question about who won the most matches that have become iconic in the collective imagination of every fan. Then when you say that individual matches cannot be iconic for me it is an incorrect consideration, everything can be iconic, from individual instant moments, such as a single point, a single game, a single tiebreak, a single set, a single match, a a single tournament, a single season, in short everything can be encompassed in iconicity but there must be the requirements to make it so. An example in the list you mentioned of the most iconic slams won by the big three was Federer's victory at the 2004 US Open which for me has nothing iconic other than an embarrassing dominance.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Another needy Djokovic fan thread. All of those records and still so insecure.

I am absolutely not a fan of Djokovic (although obviously I have immense respect for the player and his career) but I understand that for people like you, anyone who may have a different vision from yours must necessarily be a fan. After all, only a Djokovic fan can open a thread in which they try to dispute a theory, right?

Classic limited view of life.

 

[weakera]

I am absolutely not a fan of Djokovic (although obviously I have immense respect for the player and his career) but I understand that for people like you, anyone who may have a different vision from yours must necessarily be a fan. After all, only a Djokovic fan can open a thread in which they try to dispute a theory, right?

Classic limited view of life.

I have never seen a player with as many records as Djokovic owns require quite as much defense from his fans. It is quite the juxtaposition.

 

[aldeayeah]

To the OP's question: Maybe, especially if you started watching tennis in 2011.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Nadals 14 RG titles and AO win 13 years apart is the most iconic achievements of the big 3. Noles triple career slam is crazy too

 

[NeutralFan]

Yes and yes!! Nadal had wins against peak Fedovic.

 

[Bride of Alcaraz]

Well obviously Djokovic has never done anything as iconic as winning 14 French Opens.
That's why we anticipate that Djokovic's 24 Slam record will be broken, while its very hard to believe that anyone will win 15 French Opens!

I guess because THREE players won 20+ slams, so it looks very doable, especially since Alcaraz has already won 4 slams by age 21...
Winning 14 French Opens is harder than winning 20, 22 or 24 slams.

If we're talking ONE event, then 2020 French Open, Nadal came in with no form, and hardly played tennis all year until losing to Diego at Rome.
And then he didn't drop a set and beat Djokovic 60 62 75 in the RG Final with the roof closed, which everybody said helped Djokovic.

 

[Racquet_smash]

Well Nadal has several wins over prime Federer in slams which are regarded as incredible matches so i guess yeah.

 

[nolefam_2024]

We might as well start discussing T-Rex vs Stegosaurus...

T rex

 

[nolefam_2024]

This thread is good response to those who kept polluting the board with Nadal = epic , people

I don't like the way every shot used to become neutral with Nadal at all. I didn't like the vertical game plan at all. Every time he used to make it physical especially on hc. Very few easy pts. Having easy pts, well, that takes skills.

Few Nadal fanatics turned the board into Nadal worship but now we have sineraz who play so much more aggressive than even Djokovic.

I used to love the Federer Djokovic matches for all the attack vs defense style. Much more than the fedal rivalry but maybe even more than rafole.

 

[weakera]

One of the reasons Djokovic doesn't have as many iconic matches because it's forgettable to watch the opponent collapse and choke, ala Tsitsipas Roland Garros Final. Most of Djokovic's 5-set wins had an inevitable-feeling outcome.

 

[Razer]

No, the iconic moment transcends the protagonist and is limited to tennis. If we choose the most iconic moments in the history of tennis, the 2008 Wimbledon final is one of the most iconic matches in the history of tennis. In this thread I asked the question about who won the most matches that have become iconic in the collective imagination of every fan. Then when you say that individual matches cannot be iconic for me it is an incorrect consideration, everything can be iconic, from individual instant moments, such as a single point, a single game, a single tiebreak, a single set, a single match, a a single tournament, a single season, in short everything can be encompassed in iconicity but there must be the requirements to make it so. An example in the list you mentioned of the most iconic slams won by the big three was Federer's victory at the 2004 US Open which for me has nothing iconic other than an embarrassing dominance.

Your problem is you have not watched any tennis before 2011 or maybe even 2015, and i don't blame you because your profile says you are 23 years old. Thats fine, but the problem as a younger audience if you do not watch a match live then there is no way to feel a match to be iconic or not. You cannot understand the significance if you don't feel it.

You judge Federer's 2004 US Open win as "embarrassing dominance" because you look back at that era via the lens of modern tennis, theories of weak era and all that you hear or see via stats or name of the opponent, but for Fed fans that match was very special, Federer with that match announced (not literally in words...but via his performance) that he was playing an advanced level tennis to everyone else on tour and he is on the path to break Sampras's record. like Thanos say... I am inevitable .... Federer via his performance announced that he will be dominant for years ...Media started to call him GOAT in making from that match onwards.

Now tell me, are you going to convince any Fedfan that it was not iconic ? Or will you force a Fedfan to accept that WImbledon 2008 is iconic ?

Infact tell me why is Wimbledon 2008 even iconic today ? Sure, it damn hell was in 2008, but today in 2024 when you look at it, Federer himself won like 3 wimbledon after 08 while a 5 years younger Nadal won only 1 title after that, so today wimbledon 2008 look garbage, no ? Djokovic a guy who is of Nadal's age has won 7 times while Nadal only on 2, so what impact did wimbledon 2008 have on tennis in the grand scheme of things? I say NOTHING .... So is that iconic now? Nope

Thats why I said, whats iconic and not iconic depends on person to person, you consider Fed's win over Hewitt to be an embarrassment, I consider it the point where I started to worship federer back then, so who decides what is iconic ? Either ways WImbledon 2008 today is not iconic ... period !

 

[weakera]

Your problem is you have not watched any tennis before 2011 or maybe even 2015, and i don't blame you because your profile says you are 23 years old. Thats fine, but the problem as a younger audience if you do not watch a match live then there is no way to feel a match to be iconic or not. You cannot understand the significance if you don't feel it.

You judge Federer's 2004 US Open win as "embarrassing dominance" because you look back at that era via the lens of modern tennis, theories of weak era and all that you hear or see via stats or name of the opponent, but for Fed fans that match was very special, Federer with that match announced (not literally in words...but via his performance) that he was playing an advanced level tennis to everyone else on tour and he is on the path to break Sampras's record. like Thanos say... I am inevitable .... Federer via his performance announced that he will be dominant for years ...Media started to call him GOAT in making from that match onwards.

Now tell me, are you going to convince any Fedfan that it was not iconic ? Or will you force a Fedfan to accept that WImbledon 2008 is iconic ?

Infact tell me why is Wimbledon 2008 even iconic today ? Sure, it damn hell was in 2008, but today in 2024 when you look at it, Federer himself won like 3 wimbledon after 08 while a 5 years younger Nadal won only 1 title after that, so today wimbledon 2008 look garbage, no ? Djokovic a guy who is of Nadal's age has won 7 times while Nadal only on 2, so what impact did wimbledon 2008 have on tennis in the grand scheme of things? I say NOTHING .... So is that iconic now? Nope

Thats why I said, whats iconic and not iconic depends on person to person, you consider Fed's win over Hewitt to be an embarrassment, I consider it the point where I started to worship federer back then, so decides what is iconic ? Either ways WImbledon 2008 today is not iconic ... period !

Kids today lack perspective.

 

[a10best]

Nadal's 14 championships at RG, dominance of Federer during 08-2010 years and comeback wins against Med in finals were iconic. But a few of his early rd losses in majors were real headscratchers.

Djokovic's wins not so much because after his 2011 great season, Fed was not the same and Nadal had nagging injuries on hard courts so you expected Djokovic to win. For me his most iconic win was this yr at the Olympics. He was the real underdog and came up with the goods.

 

[Razer]

Kids today lack perspective.

Yeah, the urge to judge eras (that were before our time as a fan) by stats alone is wrong. Some of these people are not only guilty of that but they wanna force others to accept that as well. I think the Op is fairly respectful, there are others in this forum who are judging everything by stats and they often post Lendl's and Big'3 stats as if we are supposed to base our views based on that.

 

[NeutralFan]

Yeah, the urge to judge eras (that were before our time as a fan) by stats alone is wrong. Some of these people are not only guilty of that but they wanna force others to accept that as well. I think the Op is fairly respectful, there are others in this forum who are judging everything by stats and they often post Lendl's and Big'3 stats as if we are supposed to base our views based on that.

We can't blame the kids when ttw scholars themselves saw things in absolute with mindless ranking of legends across eras and comparison, Hypothetical match ups. I was one of very few who sticked to relativism from the get go and many others joined.

 

[GoatNo1]

Djokovic , nothing tops his achievements at any level (slam,WTF,masters) and he achieved it against hostile crowds and media .

and to add that everyone always did everything they could to please these two and to delay nole. just to mention that Nole was regularly (out of RG) in the period 08-11 with Fed and Muzz with Rafe at slams draws, 12 consecutive slam tournaments off clay. In that period even davidenko was ALWAYS on the opposite side of Rafa at the HC slams. fed did not play for more than a year and was number 6 on the list. while they froze ratings at the moment when nole was supposed to break Rogers' record for weeks. nole WON a slam but LOST 2000 points. he was disqualified, deported, banned, the slam where he was a huge favorite was cancelled. while Rafa came from a very rich family, Nole's parents borrowed money from money sharks to pay for his trips and tournaments. and again they rejected the offer of the English to receive all possible conditions in exchange for playing under their supervision. after all, bombers flew over his head in his childhood and bombed his city while these two grew up in the best possible conditions. and then such an outsider comes along and, despite all the distractions and obstacles, simply outclasses the general favourites.

 

[Razer]

We can't blame the kids when ttw scholars themselves saw things in absolute with mindless ranking of legends across eras and comparison, Hypothetical match ups. I was one of very few who sticked to relativism from the get go and many others joined.

Yes, we've all been guilty of disrespecting previous eras. I myself disrespected Sampras a lot back in Fed's good days and later Fed's bad days taught me to respect Sampras more because I started seeing things a bit differently.

 

[nolefam_2024]

and to add that everyone always did everything they could to please these two and to delay nole. just to mention that Nole was regularly (out of RG) in the period 08-11 with Fed and Muzz with Rafe at slams draws, 12 consecutive slam tournaments off clay. In that period even davidenko was ALWAYS on the opposite side of Rafa at the HC slams. fed did not play for more than a year and was number 6 on the list. while they froze ratings at the moment when nole was supposed to break Rogers' record for weeks. nole WON a slam but LOST 2000 points. he was disqualified, deported, banned, the slam where he was a huge favorite was cancelled. while Rafa came from a very rich family, Nole's parents borrowed money from money sharks to pay for his trips and tournaments. and again they rejected the offer of the English to receive all possible conditions in exchange for playing under their supervision. after all, bombers flew over his head in his childhood and bombed his city while these two grew up in the best possible conditions. and then such an outsider comes along and, despite all the distractions and obstacles, simply outclasses the general favourites.

We don't need to play martyr game like rafans

Let them play the If If game that Nadal said we should not play , not us.

Be better.

 

[zagor]

his cheating is iconic.

You could even say epic

 

[johnmccabe]

his cheating is iconic.

Nadal cheating? What?

 

[Winner Sinner]

Your problem is you have not watched any tennis before 2011 or maybe even 2015, and i don't blame you because your profile says you are 23 years old. Thats fine, but the problem as a younger audience if you do not watch a match live then there is no way to feel a match to be iconic or not. You cannot understand the significance if you don't feel it.

You judge Federer's 2004 US Open win as "embarrassing dominance" because you look back at that era via the lens of modern tennis, theories of weak era and all that you hear or see via stats or name of the opponent, but for Fed fans that match was very special, Federer with that match announced (not literally in words...but via his performance) that he was playing an advanced level tennis to everyone else on tour and he is on the path to break Sampras's record. like Thanos say... I am inevitable .... Federer via his performance announced that he will be dominant for years ...Media started to call him GOAT in making from that match onwards.

Now tell me, are you going to convince any Fedfan that it was not iconic ? Or will you force a Fedfan to accept that WImbledon 2008 is iconic ?

Infact tell me why is Wimbledon 2008 even iconic today ? Sure, it damn hell was in 2008, but today in 2024 when you look at it, Federer himself won like 3 wimbledon after 08 while a 5 years younger Nadal won only 1 title after that, so today wimbledon 2008 look garbage, no ? Djokovic a guy who is of Nadal's age has won 7 times while Nadal only on 2, so what impact did wimbledon 2008 have on tennis in the grand scheme of things? I say NOTHING .... So is that iconic now? Nope

Thats why I said, whats iconic and not iconic depends on person to person, you consider Fed's win over Hewitt to be an embarrassment, I consider it the point where I started to worship federer back then, so who decides what is iconic ? Either ways WImbledon 2008 today is not iconic ... period !

What is iconic is decided by history and not by the fan. It is no coincidence that I gave you the example of Sinner as a fan of his, if I had to choose the match I am most fond of in his still young career I would choose the semifinal with Djokovic at the Australian Open or the final in Beijing 2023 against Medvedev, all important turning points in his career. But if I have to choose his most iconic match, reasoning not as a fan but extending the vision to the entire tennis ecosystem, I would say the Davis Cup match against Djokovic, that too was a watershed match perhaps for both (for Sinner in terms of escalation, for Djokovic in terms of decline/invincible aura definitively vanished), but it is the circumstances that make it so. Sinner had just been bullied by Djokovic himself in the Turin final a few days earlier, his team had their backs to the wall due to Musetti's defeat against Kecmanovic, he had to cancel 3 consecutive match points that if converted would have sanctioned not only his defeat but also the elimination of the Italian team with the consequent dream of bringing Davis back to Italy 46 years after the first and only time vanished. There are all the credentials for that to be considered an iconic match. I repeat, we need to separate the fan issue from the individual player and analyze it from the historical side for tennis. The 2008 Wimbledon final is iconic in the history of tennis firstly because it was a beautiful and exciting match, secondly because Nadal ended Federer's reign in London. For me, in the history of tennis, Federer's victories against Nadal in Hamburg 2007 or against Djokovic at Roland Garros 2011 are much more iconic than the one against Hewitt at the US Open 2004. You have to separate the fan self from the tennis fans we. You talk about the subjectivity of the fan self and the objectivity of what a moment represents in the collective imagination of the history of tennis, and in this perspective Wimbledon 2008 is far more iconic than the US Open 2004. That match between Federer and Nadal is remembered by everyone, even non-fans, the fact that the winner was Nadal and the loser was Federer is irrelevant to the question, it's a matter of contextualizing. For me, the US Open match between Sinner and Alcaraz was one of the most iconic moments in recent tennis history, and even though I'm a Sinner fan, and therefore disappointed by that mocking outcome, it's irrelevant to the argument because I separate the question of the fan, so I don't think from a Sinner perspective but from a tennis perspective.

 

[NeutralFan]

Yes, we've all been guilty of disrespecting previous eras. I myself disrespected Sampras a lot back in Fed's good days and later Fed's bad days taught me to respect Sampras more because I started seeing things a bit differently.

Ironically many Fed fans joined relativism when he no longer held slam record, I didn't believe in GOAT nonsense ever since I joined this forum. This goat bs is for kids and a marketing term to sell any sport. I have always defended Pete, he was best of his era and very unlucky in having a short career ( relatively) and change in tennis style contrary to his style.

 

[GoatNo1]

We don't need to play martyr game like rafans

Let them play the If If game that Nadal said we should not play , not us.

Be better.

whot martyr?

it is just a facts. and i did not used single IF.

 

[Tennfan123]

You’re working overtime, bruh. I hope they’re paying you well.
Lol beating Tsits in a slam final iconic.

 

[Razer]

For me, in the history of tennis, Federer's victories against Nadal in Hamburg 2007 or against Djokovic at Roland Garros 2011 are much more iconic than the one against Hewitt at the US Open 2004.

Perhaps iconic is a wrong word, you are probably talking of the better quality match. Iconic is a term in a broad sense, matches which are pivotal to have inspired fans/people of that era is what the textbook definition of "iconic" means. I see nothing iconic about Hamburg 2007.

 

[gamelovergold]

Another needy Djokovic fan thread. All of those records and still so insecure.

Sorry to say but no novak fan is insecure . After nadal retirement race is over. 24>22>20. No amount of fedal post can change the reality and that is what it is.

 

[Winner Sinner]

One of the reasons Djokovic doesn't have as many iconic matches because it's forgettable to watch the opponent collapse and choke, ala Tsitsipas Roland Garros Final. Most of Djokovic's 5-set wins had an inevitable-feeling outcome.

So from this perspective we might not even consider the 2008 Wimbledon final iconic/epic given that;

1) Nadal had already challenged Federer the year before, taking him to fifth.

2) He was fresh from the 2008 RG final in which, unlike the previous matches in Paris, Federer was the victim of repeated bullying.

3) Nadal found himself ahead 2-0 in the 2008 Wimbledon final and also had match points in the fourth set tiebreak.

And in any case even if you are Djokovic then you have to overturn a final from 2-0 down. In Melbourne against Sinner this year in the semi-final he was 2-0 down and it doesn't seem to me that he overturned it despite riding a perennial unbeaten streak between semi-final and final in the Australian slam. Furthermore, Tsitsipas 2021 was a very dangerous contender on clay so much so that in his approach he won his first Monte Carlo and came close to beating Nadal in the final in one of his many reigns on clay (Barcelona).

 

[ghostofMecir]

Djokovic is the most impressive, because Djokovic is an underachiever. Federer and Nadal are overachievers.

Federer is an underachiever despite the massive disadvantage in racket and stroke, i.e., 1 handed BH.

 

[Neptune]

The GOAT defied all odds to complete tennis and secure every pivotal record (weeks#1, YE#1, slam, TF, masters, top5 wins, top10 wins), while Fedal each have three big bagels on their resumes.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Perhaps iconic is a wrong word, you are probably talking of the better quality match. Iconic is a term in a broad sense, matches which are pivotal to have inspired fans/people of that era is what the textbook definition of "iconic" means. I see nothing iconic about Hamburg 2007.

But in fact even Hamburg 2007 is not as iconic as many others, but I consider it more iconic than the 2004 US Open final. That match against Hewitt in the final in New York is iconic only for Federer fans, but I speak of iconicity for the tennis and not for a fan of a player (and I return to the examples I gave you as a Sinner fan).