ghostofMecir
Legend
lol at the irony
Are Nadal's successes really more iconic than Djokovic's?
- Thread starter Winner Sinner
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Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
In that "for me" it is implied that I am not reasoning as a fan. But after all, to understand a book you have to read it all and not just flip through a few pages.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Bahahaha
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol. Too easy
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
However, since there are some nitpickers here, and being Italian myself, I struggle to make myself understood in what is not my mother tongue, I want to specify for the last time the origin of the thread;
Here we are not discussing the most iconic matches of Djokovic's career per se but the most iconic matches in the history of tennis which involved Djokovic as the winner. And this is where I think he is more involved than the other two members of the big three.
Then someone challenged me about including the match with Thiem at the 2020 Australian Open in the list, and it is actually the most forced, but I repeat that things must be put into context. Djokovic was down 2-1 and there wasn't the slightest inkling that he could DEFINITELY overturn it, also because, speaking of contextualizing the moments, that was Thiem at his peak fresh from a super finale of the 2020 season where he won the US Open (although it causes astral conjunctions) but also the ATP Finals. It seemed that for the first time it could happen that a player of the generation born in the 90s could defeat a member of the big three on the most important stage (final of a slam) but instead Djokovic's resilience prevented him from doing so.
Here we are not discussing the most iconic matches of Djokovic's career per se but the most iconic matches in the history of tennis which involved Djokovic as the winner. And this is where I think he is more involved than the other two members of the big three.
Then someone challenged me about including the match with Thiem at the 2020 Australian Open in the list, and it is actually the most forced, but I repeat that things must be put into context. Djokovic was down 2-1 and there wasn't the slightest inkling that he could DEFINITELY overturn it, also because, speaking of contextualizing the moments, that was Thiem at his peak fresh from a super finale of the 2020 season where he won the US Open (although it causes astral conjunctions) but also the ATP Finals. It seemed that for the first time it could happen that a player of the generation born in the 90s could defeat a member of the big three on the most important stage (final of a slam) but instead Djokovic's resilience prevented him from doing so.
ghostofMecir
Legend
It’s ok to admit you made a mistake while caught up in your own sophistry.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
It's okay to not understand anything at all and not to admit that you don't understand anything at all.
Slightly Biased Nadal Fan
New User
Imo Nadal was the biggest magnet for pumping out all time matches. You could certainly argue Djokovic came out on the winning end of them the most often but don't think even then Rafa would be too far behind. It's one of the most special things about watching him is his ability to take matches to a higher plane. A lot of the time it felt like he was sort of a victim of his own intensity that saw him lose a fair share since his opponents were often forced to be on their toes at all times and maintain the crazy high standard they'd set bc they knew Nadal would throw everything he had into matching it and his ever-present nature within matches would see him pounce on any lull. I'd say he has a win to his name to match almost all of these.
2005 Rome Final:
Clay tennis at its apex with the first iteration of the king of clay emerging victorious. Coria throws the kitchen sink as a bit of a last stand for this generation of pure clay courters and looks like he has teenagedal cooked late in the 5th. Miracle comeback from 0-3 double break down in the 5th and amazing breaker by both Nadal clutches up late to win by the skin of his teeth after an extra grueling 5 hrs 14 mins.
2006 Rome Final:
Strong contender for best clay match Federer ever played. Has Rafa in a bind on several different occasions (4-2 Fed serving up in the 2nd set breaker, 1-4 down in the 5th and match pts at 5-6 15-40, and then mini break down couple times in the deciding breaker all the way to 5-3 with Fed serving). Scrapes out another 5 hr win and takes Federer's best punch on clay.
2008 Olympic SF:
More or less decided who was taking home gold in 08 with a tremendous deciding set. Limited sample size but one of the best matches in Olympic history.
2008 Wimby Final:
Forever the crown jewel defining moment of his career completing his arc of getting closer and closer to dethroning RF in his house and though it didn't outright give him number 1, more or less completed the chase down of Federer in becoming the best in the game right there in beyond epic fashion w memorable moments galore.
2009 AO SF + Final:
In a vacuum perhaps the most impressive thing he's ever done. SF is the match that is the gold standard for the litany of big 3 matches withstanding a redlining barrage from an inspired opponent (all due respect to Djokorinka AO13, Rafa Thiem USO 18, etc). Wonderful all time final on the turnaround for 4 sets where Nadal wins his sets on sheer clutch shotmaking under pressure, especially the 3rd where he's more or less staring down the barrel saving 5-6 brk pts late in the set.
2009 Madrid SF:
Another match hinting at Djokovic being his toughest challenge, even on clay. Beginning to show signs of starting to run on fumes after his best year long run of results since MC 08 but digs into the challenge anyways and stages a gritty comeback against an inspired Djokovic. 4 hrs 3 mins later after 3 match pt saves (to this day one of just 4 matches Djokovic has lost holding match pt) emerges victorious.
2013 RG SF:
Mirror match to AO12 final, this time Nadal mostly in control throughout, match doesn't seem to have a prayer at seeing a 5th and then all of a sudden he's down a break in the 5th staring down a potentially brutal blemish to the sacred RG record. Forehand goes nuclear back to the wall and 1 moment also swings momentum in the 5th here once it seems the tide has turned and the rest is history another famous 9-7 in the 5th win.
2013 USO Final:
I understand this isn't an all time epic but it will be on Nadal's Mount Rushmore slam wins and shares some parallels w RG 21 SF for the passage of peak animalistic Djokodal rallies in the 2nd and 3rd + scalp off fav surface. Match is decided by an amazing 3rd set and my choice for greatest Nadal houdini act absolutely stole that set and seemed to break Djokovic's will by doing so.
From that point on, he goes from maybe the GOAT big match player and winner to more of a tossup in these types of matches in his elite post prime period but still a couple more entries
2017 AO SF:
A baby AO 09 sf essentially. Probably the best match of Grigor's career and confirming Rafa's resurrection after a tough last 2 yrs all while being on the knife's edge of the dream Fedal final.
2018 Wimbledon QF:
Overshadowed by an even greater match that followed immediately after but top shelf stuff no less. After a long drought of good showings at Wimbledon, coming through this match against a spirited Delpo who provided a stern test to the bitter end, added another signature win for him at SW19.
2018 USO QF:
All time great match in the history of this tournament and the epitome of everything there is to love about the USO with the late nigh thriller under the lights and both Thiem and Nadal hitting the cover off the ball for nearly 5 hrs. Punched in the mouth early, Nadal at his weathering the storm best, throws everything he has left for 2018 into the comeback which ends in the trademark USO 5th set 7 pt winner take all breaker to fend off the first sighting of a prime redlining Dominic Thiem off clay who will become a force for 2 more yrs.
2019 USO Final:
Quite frankly shouldn't have turned into an epic and been as tough/stressful as it became. Firmly in control for 2.5 sets looked like a route until one lapse opened the door which Medvedev slams through. Came frighteningly close to the biggest choke of his career but has just enough energy to slam the breaks on a red hot Meddy in the midst of his breakout hot streak North America-Shanghai 2019 where Nadal twice had the answers.
2022 AO Final:
Only wish Nadal fans had for so long was a 2nd Aus title when he'd come so excruciatingly close so many times and it seemed like that window was closed even through what had been a surprise finals run, Medvedev still seemed inevitable as someone inching toward best HC player on tour and poised to win his 2nd slam after the Djokovic AO saga. That notion was only strengthened once we found ourselves at 2-6 6-7 2-3 love 40 and cue his greatest ever comeback The Miracle in Melbourne. Dug out of so many grindy serve games in the 3rd and 4th and giving us the only thing left on the wishlist for his career when we least expected it in the most unlikely fashion.
2022 RG QF:
Probably won't age as meaningful as it was at the time but this match essentially decided the title. One of the few times Rafa has ever been an underdog at RG (reasonably hefty one at that). Baseless convos of Djokovic figuring him out on clay after 2021 and looked like it'd be tough for him to put them to rest after 5 setter leading into the qf + health concerns heading to RG but he threw in one of his last signature performances for a statement win outclutching Novak at the end.
You could maybe toss a couple of the recent ones like AO17 SF, 18 Wimby QF, 19 USO F into 2nd tier for quality or impact lessened going on to lose the tournament to fall short of iconic but even then there's still no shortage in the Nadal corner for iconic wins to argue for him. Not to mention some of the ones omitted that could also be in that 2nd tier category (IW 22 SF, Montreal 13 SF, Hamburg 08 SF+F, AO 12 QF, WTF 10 SF off the top of my head).
Sidebar: For Novak could add 07 Montreal F, 11 Miami F, Rome 11 SF+F, Wimby 14 F
2005 Rome Final:
Clay tennis at its apex with the first iteration of the king of clay emerging victorious. Coria throws the kitchen sink as a bit of a last stand for this generation of pure clay courters and looks like he has teenagedal cooked late in the 5th. Miracle comeback from 0-3 double break down in the 5th and amazing breaker by both Nadal clutches up late to win by the skin of his teeth after an extra grueling 5 hrs 14 mins.
2006 Rome Final:
Strong contender for best clay match Federer ever played. Has Rafa in a bind on several different occasions (4-2 Fed serving up in the 2nd set breaker, 1-4 down in the 5th and match pts at 5-6 15-40, and then mini break down couple times in the deciding breaker all the way to 5-3 with Fed serving). Scrapes out another 5 hr win and takes Federer's best punch on clay.
2008 Olympic SF:
More or less decided who was taking home gold in 08 with a tremendous deciding set. Limited sample size but one of the best matches in Olympic history.
2008 Wimby Final:
Forever the crown jewel defining moment of his career completing his arc of getting closer and closer to dethroning RF in his house and though it didn't outright give him number 1, more or less completed the chase down of Federer in becoming the best in the game right there in beyond epic fashion w memorable moments galore.
2009 AO SF + Final:
In a vacuum perhaps the most impressive thing he's ever done. SF is the match that is the gold standard for the litany of big 3 matches withstanding a redlining barrage from an inspired opponent (all due respect to Djokorinka AO13, Rafa Thiem USO 18, etc). Wonderful all time final on the turnaround for 4 sets where Nadal wins his sets on sheer clutch shotmaking under pressure, especially the 3rd where he's more or less staring down the barrel saving 5-6 brk pts late in the set.
2009 Madrid SF:
Another match hinting at Djokovic being his toughest challenge, even on clay. Beginning to show signs of starting to run on fumes after his best year long run of results since MC 08 but digs into the challenge anyways and stages a gritty comeback against an inspired Djokovic. 4 hrs 3 mins later after 3 match pt saves (to this day one of just 4 matches Djokovic has lost holding match pt) emerges victorious.
2013 RG SF:
Mirror match to AO12 final, this time Nadal mostly in control throughout, match doesn't seem to have a prayer at seeing a 5th and then all of a sudden he's down a break in the 5th staring down a potentially brutal blemish to the sacred RG record. Forehand goes nuclear back to the wall and 1 moment also swings momentum in the 5th here once it seems the tide has turned and the rest is history another famous 9-7 in the 5th win.
2013 USO Final:
I understand this isn't an all time epic but it will be on Nadal's Mount Rushmore slam wins and shares some parallels w RG 21 SF for the passage of peak animalistic Djokodal rallies in the 2nd and 3rd + scalp off fav surface. Match is decided by an amazing 3rd set and my choice for greatest Nadal houdini act absolutely stole that set and seemed to break Djokovic's will by doing so.
From that point on, he goes from maybe the GOAT big match player and winner to more of a tossup in these types of matches in his elite post prime period but still a couple more entries
2017 AO SF:
A baby AO 09 sf essentially. Probably the best match of Grigor's career and confirming Rafa's resurrection after a tough last 2 yrs all while being on the knife's edge of the dream Fedal final.
2018 Wimbledon QF:
Overshadowed by an even greater match that followed immediately after but top shelf stuff no less. After a long drought of good showings at Wimbledon, coming through this match against a spirited Delpo who provided a stern test to the bitter end, added another signature win for him at SW19.
2018 USO QF:
All time great match in the history of this tournament and the epitome of everything there is to love about the USO with the late nigh thriller under the lights and both Thiem and Nadal hitting the cover off the ball for nearly 5 hrs. Punched in the mouth early, Nadal at his weathering the storm best, throws everything he has left for 2018 into the comeback which ends in the trademark USO 5th set 7 pt winner take all breaker to fend off the first sighting of a prime redlining Dominic Thiem off clay who will become a force for 2 more yrs.
2019 USO Final:
Quite frankly shouldn't have turned into an epic and been as tough/stressful as it became. Firmly in control for 2.5 sets looked like a route until one lapse opened the door which Medvedev slams through. Came frighteningly close to the biggest choke of his career but has just enough energy to slam the breaks on a red hot Meddy in the midst of his breakout hot streak North America-Shanghai 2019 where Nadal twice had the answers.
2022 AO Final:
Only wish Nadal fans had for so long was a 2nd Aus title when he'd come so excruciatingly close so many times and it seemed like that window was closed even through what had been a surprise finals run, Medvedev still seemed inevitable as someone inching toward best HC player on tour and poised to win his 2nd slam after the Djokovic AO saga. That notion was only strengthened once we found ourselves at 2-6 6-7 2-3 love 40 and cue his greatest ever comeback The Miracle in Melbourne. Dug out of so many grindy serve games in the 3rd and 4th and giving us the only thing left on the wishlist for his career when we least expected it in the most unlikely fashion.
2022 RG QF:
Probably won't age as meaningful as it was at the time but this match essentially decided the title. One of the few times Rafa has ever been an underdog at RG (reasonably hefty one at that). Baseless convos of Djokovic figuring him out on clay after 2021 and looked like it'd be tough for him to put them to rest after 5 setter leading into the qf + health concerns heading to RG but he threw in one of his last signature performances for a statement win outclutching Novak at the end.
You could maybe toss a couple of the recent ones like AO17 SF, 18 Wimby QF, 19 USO F into 2nd tier for quality or impact lessened going on to lose the tournament to fall short of iconic but even then there's still no shortage in the Nadal corner for iconic wins to argue for him. Not to mention some of the ones omitted that could also be in that 2nd tier category (IW 22 SF, Montreal 13 SF, Hamburg 08 SF+F, AO 12 QF, WTF 10 SF off the top of my head).
Sidebar: For Novak could add 07 Montreal F, 11 Miami F, Rome 11 SF+F, Wimby 14 F
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Mustard
Bionic Poster
In the 2005 Rome final, Coria led 3-0 (2 breaks) in the fifth set and had a game point on his own serve for 4-0, but got broken so 3-1. Nadal came back to lead 4-3 (on serve). When Coria served to stay in the match at 5-6, he had to save a championship point. In the tiebreak, Nadal led 5-1, Coria reduced that to 5-4, Nadal then had another two championship points at 6-4, but Coria got it back to 6-6. Nadal then won the next 2 points to win the title.
In the 2013 US Open final, Nadal was at 1 set all, 4-4 and serving at 0-40. Nadal got out of that to hold serve, then broke Djokovic to win the third set, and then raced away to win the fourth set 6-1. In so doing, Nadal completed the Canadian Open-Cincinnati-US Open triple in 2013.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Sad.
Federer's iconic wins: 1) '09 WB over Roddick; 2) '11 RG win over Djokovic; 3) '12 WB victories over Djokovic & Murray; 4) '17 AO win over Nadal; 5) '19 WB win over Nadal
Nadal's iconic wins: 1) '06 RG win over Federer; 2) '08 WB win over Federer; 3) '09 AO win over Federer; 4) '13 RG win over Djokovic; 5) '13 US over Djokovic; 6) '19 US win over Med; 7) '22 AO win over Med; 8) '22 RG win over Djoko
Djokovic's iconic wins: 1) '08 AO over Federer; 2) '11 US victories over Federer & Nadal; 3) '12 AO win over Nadal; 4) '14 WB win over Federer; 5) '16 AO win over Federer; 6) '18 WB win over Nadal; 7) '19 WB win over Federer; 8) '21 RG win over Nadal
Maybe I'm missing a few!
Nadal's iconic wins: 1) '06 RG win over Federer; 2) '08 WB win over Federer; 3) '09 AO win over Federer; 4) '13 RG win over Djokovic; 5) '13 US over Djokovic; 6) '19 US win over Med; 7) '22 AO win over Med; 8) '22 RG win over Djoko
Djokovic's iconic wins: 1) '08 AO over Federer; 2) '11 US victories over Federer & Nadal; 3) '12 AO win over Nadal; 4) '14 WB win over Federer; 5) '16 AO win over Federer; 6) '18 WB win over Nadal; 7) '19 WB win over Federer; 8) '21 RG win over Nadal
Maybe I'm missing a few!
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Fed
2001 Wimbledon
2005 AO
2006 Rome
2007 Wimbledon
2009 US open
2011 RG and USO
2012 wimby final
2014 wimby final
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
This is absolutely ridiculous lol
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
OP is setting up a false premise and then arguing against it. Who said Nadal’s successes are more iconic apart from a few of his diehard boosters on here?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
No one.
All big 3 had iconic wins and even losses. It would be foolish to say only Nadal had it.
vex
Legend
The answer is all 3. When I think of the biggest feats I think of:
- Djokovic’s utter domination in 2015 and 2011.
- Djokovic’s epic AO 12 win over Rafa
- Djokovic’s FU return to upset Fed
- Djokovic coming back from 40-15 at Wimbledon.
- Rafa’s godliness on clay
- Rafa straight up embarrassing Fed and Djoker in those 2 savage RG finals
- Rafa’s epic Wimbledon win over Fed
- Rafa’s upset of Djokovic at USO 13.
- Fed’s upset of Djokovic snapping his 41 match win streak at RG’11 (finger wag)
- Fed’s incredible run returning from injury at AO’17 culminating in his epic upset of Rafa despite being down a break in the 5th
- Djokovic’s utter domination in 2015 and 2011.
- Djokovic’s epic AO 12 win over Rafa
- Djokovic’s FU return to upset Fed
- Djokovic coming back from 40-15 at Wimbledon.
- Rafa’s godliness on clay
- Rafa straight up embarrassing Fed and Djoker in those 2 savage RG finals
- Rafa’s epic Wimbledon win over Fed
- Rafa’s upset of Djokovic at USO 13.
- Fed’s upset of Djokovic snapping his 41 match win streak at RG’11 (finger wag)
- Fed’s incredible run returning from injury at AO’17 culminating in his epic upset of Rafa despite being down a break in the 5th
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
It’s amazing what a clay court specialist was able to do off of clay, but none of it compares to what he did on clay
jl809
Legend
OP’s false premise, like so many other people’s on this thread, is misdefining the word “iconic” to just mean whatever the hell you want it to in regards to random matches or stats which no-one outside of avid tennis fans will know. Being “iconic” involves being widely recognised and well known
So AO 12 is iconic. Wimbledon 2019 is iconic. The 2024 Olympic gold is iconic. Winning the slam race is iconic. People who don’t watch tennis heard about this stuff, not just us losers on an internet forum
Likewise for Nadal, Wimbledon 2008 is iconic. How many tennis matches got their own massive documentary? AO 09 is iconic and AO 17 are iconic, AO 12 is iconic and like it or not AO 22 is probably iconic too. Winning 14 French Opens / being Clay God is iconic for sure.
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Nappa
Professional
Imagine winning as many slams as Agassi off clay and still being called a clay court specialist due to how big you performed on clay
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal won more majors than Agassi off clay, i.e. 8 to 7.
Two more ridiculous stats:
1. Nadal won as many French Opens alone as Sampras did majors in total
2. Nadal won twice as many French Opens as Sampras did Wimbledons, and tennis fans from the 1990s remember how much of a dominant aura that Sampras had at Wimbledon at the time.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
well, there is this small matter of a colossal statue put up when the Rafa guy is still an active player... may be that means his successes were more iconic??
Playing and winning a GS title at a venue where your colossal statue stands must be a run of the mill accolade.
please do mention which other player has been celebrated like this when active, I'll wait!
So also, the task of carrying the Olympic torch when an active player!!
I must have missed Djo and Fed doing the honors on such a world stage??
Playing in the center court named after you and winning that tournament again is of course so shabby!
what a sad mess of a career this Rafa guy has had!! not one bit iconic! such a bore being addressed as the KING of clay from teenage!
edberg volleys
Hall of Fame
Thanks
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
His clay achievements especially in Spain and France are iconic for sure. I was just questioning saying what he has accomplished is more ‘iconic’ than the many achievements of others like Federer and Djokovic. Djokovic in particular has more Slams, Masters series, ATP Finals wins and #1 trophies/weeks than him in addition to more wins against big 3 rivals and Top 5/10 players.well, there is this small matter of a colossal statue put up when the Rafa guy is still an active player... may be that means his successes were more iconic??
Playing and winning a GS title at a venue where your colossal statue stands must be a run of the mill accolade.
please do mention which other player has been celebrated like this when active, I'll wait!
So also, the task of carrying the Olympic torch when an active player!!
I must have missed Djo and Fed doing the honors on such a world stage??
Playing in the center court named after you and winning that tournament again is of course so shabby!
what a sad mess of a career this Rafa guy has had!! not one bit iconic! such a bore being addressed as the KING of clay from teenage!
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Since Nadal's prime coincided with both Federer and Djokovic's more than their did against each other, it is safe to say that Nadal has a bit more high impact wins in terms of sheer athleticism than the other 2 if we are adding up the relative levels of both opponents.
But iconic ? Maybe not, Nadal's wins have lost a lot of significance over time due to Novak's rise.
But iconic ? Maybe not, Nadal's wins have lost a lot of significance over time due to Novak's rise.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
All of these things mean absolutely nothing.well, there is this small matter of a colossal statue put up when the Rafa guy is still an active player... may be that means his successes were more iconic??
Playing and winning a GS title at a venue where your colossal statue stands must be a run of the mill accolade.
please do mention which other player has been celebrated like this when active, I'll wait!
So also, the task of carrying the Olympic torch when an active player!!
I must have missed Djo and Fed doing the honors on such a world stage??
Playing in the center court named after you and winning that tournament again is of course so shabby!
what a sad mess of a career this Rafa guy has had!! not one bit iconic! such a bore being addressed as the KING of clay from teenage!
Nadal won gold medal before so he was part of the list of players lighting up.
You know who else was there.
Serena LeBron and Nadia. All previous gold winners.
Fed never won it in singles but now Novak has won it as well.
Pheasant
Legend
These are some good picks. But for Djoker, I’d pick his 2016 FO victory over his 2021 title for a couple of reasons.
1. 2016 was a final
2. 2021 wasn’t not the first time he beat Rafa
3. 2016 gave Djoker the NCYGS
4. 2016 gave Djoker the career slam.
5. Djoker was still in 3rd place in slams after bagging the 2021 FO
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nadal has no epic match at rg ( maybe 1 vs Djokovic )
Djokovic has very few epic matches at ao
When you are too good, you shouldn't give epic matches. Dominate your rivals.
Djokovic has very few epic matches at ao
When you are too good, you shouldn't give epic matches. Dominate your rivals.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Good points but lets not forget that a win over Nadal enroute to the title is still better than a win vs Sir Andrew Murray, I mean lets face it, neither Djoko nor Sir Andrew are clay courters, so how great was that win from a historic perspective when we look back at it ? Holding all 4 slams sounds good on paper but the media does not even care for it, only CYGS is considered by the media, the N-CYGS is something which we brought up to glorify Nole and Serena for their feats. Not to mention, Djokovic did comeback from 2 sets down vs Tsitsipas who is more than a decade younger to him. Stefanos might be a mug but at least from Novak's perspective it is a triumph over a guy who is 11 years younger from down 2 sets, it should count as the better tournament IMO than 2016 one. Now had Novak beat Stan in 2015 then that would have been his best tournament win but alas that was not meant to happen, Stan played out of his mind and put Novak in his place.
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
again the question is if Rafa's wins are meaningless in front of the other atgs, why the statue and centercourt named after him?
where are similar or better concrete acknowledgments of the so called superior guy's achievements? I'm not aware of any other statue or center court for an active player... if their performance was that iconic they surely must have similar tribute
you guys were saying Rafa is iconic only in a few fans mind. turns out Rafa has had the most impressive wins worthy of acknowledgment and tributes
btw, Rafa's olympic gold was won beating Novak in the semis on hc.... where is the excuse for the so called superior guy to lose that match and never win a gold till now? Rafa has a doubles gold as well even after missing the London olympics.
basically, your excel sheets and numbers are not worth the paper they are written on if they have not been given a tangible tribute.
Rafa is ICONIC and has justifiably earned his tributes over his other rival atgs even if you find it a bitter pill to swallow!
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
It's hard to argue with Nadal's clay domination. Someone might eventually take the major record from Djokovic, but Nadal's RG record out living us all is pretty much a lock.
Combine that with Wim 08 being the most iconic match of the era, and I think you have to give it to Ralph.
Combine that with Wim 08 being the most iconic match of the era, and I think you have to give it to Ralph.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
And beating Djokovic in 2 out of 3 US Open finals
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
WB 2008 epic AF, always will be ! Egg won't have that one.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
The way the 2013 US Open final ended was also epic. 1 set all against Djokovic, Nadal serving at 4-4 in the third set and down 0-40, momentum seemingly with Djokovic. Nadal gets out of it to hold serve, breaks Djokovic to win the third set, and then wins the fourth set 6-1, to complete the Canadian Open-Cincinnati-US Open triple. Had Djokovic won that match it might have been a 1995 Agassi situation, instead it was the opposite emotion.
BlueB
Legend
Djokerer played 50 times, Fedal only 40.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Doesn't matter Djokovic played 1 trillion times more than Nadal after Federer's peak.
Nadal played Federer at a time when Federer when was at his peak while Djokovic never beat peak Federer.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
JustMy2Cents
Hall of Fame
you literally said meaningless, dude...this is your post ' all these things mean abs nothing!!'
btw it was Carl Lewis not Lebron.
the socal guy said 'a few fans call Rafa epic, no bodyelse, so the OP is a wrong premise'
so 'the few fans' manifested a statue , center court naming, the torch honor?? these are unheard of for an active player.
Rafa is indeed epic!! @Winner Sinner
BlueB
Legend
Peak this, pick that, picks his butt, but speak if, if, if...
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I said just a statue and a torch means nothing.
The Olympics memory is djokovic holding his daughter.
Nadal is not more iconic than nole or Roger.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Disecting Nadal's success will inevitably bring us to the conclusion that 2/3 of it came on clay. Which isn't a problem per se, but than you have to face the uncomfortable truth that in the whole timeframe of his success (almost 20 years), he was the only natural claycourter out there. Not a single one who has the skillset traditionally required for clay has appeared for more than 20 years. Who was the next best thing? Ferrer? Was it luck? Maybe. Unprescedented turn of events for sure, especially when you consider the field most of the 90s claycourters had to go through to win a single RG, let alone multiple. In other words, he was the favorite 99% of the time and none of his wins came "against all odds" or anything. In the process, he undoubtedly had a handfull of good matches, but very few were really "epic" or "iconic", unless infinite fistpumping levels it up for you. That leaves us with 2005 Rome, 2006 Rome, 2013 RG, and surely 2009 RG that he lost.
As for his success elsewhere, it mostly came as a product of impoverished draws that coincided with his own good form, which itself was a side effect of picking and choosing the time and the place thus artificially adjusting his off clay schedule to maximize the potential gain. A fruitful strategy, but not neccessarily a honorable one, especially if in the end you're the one who ends up blaiming all the events skipped for losing the slam race. The direct consequence of aforementioned strategy are wins such as 2010 W, 2013 USO, 2017 USO etc.
Lastly, we come to his success indoors. Umm... Well... Yeah. I'm sure I got it all covered.
As for his success elsewhere, it mostly came as a product of impoverished draws that coincided with his own good form, which itself was a side effect of picking and choosing the time and the place thus artificially adjusting his off clay schedule to maximize the potential gain. A fruitful strategy, but not neccessarily a honorable one, especially if in the end you're the one who ends up blaiming all the events skipped for losing the slam race. The direct consequence of aforementioned strategy are wins such as 2010 W, 2013 USO, 2017 USO etc.
Lastly, we come to his success indoors. Umm... Well... Yeah. I'm sure I got it all covered.
vex
Legend
Bro Novak freaking Djokovic was an amazing clay court player and is one year younger than Rafa. If anything the fact that Rafa had to beat Djokovic so much on clay makes his accomplishments even more ridiculous. And that’s before even mentioning Fed, himself a solid clay player.
messiahrobins
Legend
Its only gonna get worse after that 6 Kings farce. Not been on X yet, but basically Nadal is being treated like God and the rest as support acts.
