Are OS rackets generally more armfriendly?

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Suffering from TE right now so not playing but eventually i guess il be fine and once its time to start playing again im thinking of playing with my head radical tour os rackets. Heres the thing, this is the second time ive gotten TE once in my left arm and once in my right arm and i play with some of the softest frames there is, head pro tour 630. So the TE that ive gotten has never been something building up, it struck like ligtning from never having had it before to getting it in my right arm after one windy practise session against a backboard, and my only conclusion is that it came from isolated instances where there were shanks involved since these raquets that i have played with are so soft and comfortable. So im simply thinking OS raquet cleaner hitting less shanks, less chance of getting my TE back....am i thinking right or not?
 

mnttlrg

Professional
Solid OS rackets are great for the arm. Flimsy OS rackets are not, imo.

As far as your 630 goes, sometimes too much flex and too dense of a pattern can be just as harsh as too stiff and/or too open.

Maybe try a Radical Pro first before making a drastic change.

Your premise is fine, but the conclusion seems drastic.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
Suffering from TE right now so not playing but eventually i guess il be fine and once its time to start playing again im thinking of playing with my head radical tour os rackets. Heres the thing, this is the second time ive gotten TE once in my left arm and once in my right arm and i play with some of the softest frames there is, head pro tour 630. So the TE that ive gotten has never been something building up, it struck like ligtning from never having had it before to getting it in my right arm after one windy practise session against a backboard, and my only conclusion is that it came from isolated instances where there were shanks involved since these raquets that i have played with are so soft and comfortable. So im simply thinking OS raquet cleaner hitting less shanks, less chance of getting my TE back....am i thinking right or not?
what string(s) & setup if you remember?
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Solid OS rackets are great for the arm. Flimsy OS rackets are not, imo.

As far as your 630 goes, sometimes too much flex and too dense of a pattern can be just as harsh as too stiff and/or too open.

Maybe try a Radical Pro first before making a drastic change.

Your premise is fine, but the conclusion seems drastic.
Well i have played with those radical tour bumblebees before and i love them, so yeah somewhat of a drastic change but nothing that i wouldnt get used to after a while. And yeah they are definately not flimsy....
 

mnttlrg

Professional
Well i have played with those radical tour bumblebees before and i love them, so yeah somewhat of a drastic change but nothing that i wouldnt get used to after a while. And yeah they are definately not flimsy....
That would be an OS I'd recommend. If you walk into a tennis store and ask for OS nowadays, you may walk out with a 9 ounce piece of junk.

All I'm saying is I'd at least give a brief trial of a 16x19 in 98 or 100 with middling beam and flex before you bother to make that jump. That 630 is on the far end of the density range.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
That would be an OS I'd recommend. If you walk into a tennis store and ask for OS nowadays, you may walk out with a 9 ounce piece of junk.

All I'm saying is I'd at least give a brief trial of a 16x19 in 98 or 100 with middling beam and flex before you bother to make that jump. That 630 is on the far end of the density range.
Yes very dense stingpattern indeed, and i suppose therein lies the danger, when you shank or hit unclean it can actually feel quite jaring....
 

cortado

Semi-Pro
How old are you? TE is primarily overuse and/or age.
I think a lot of this focus on racquet stiffness, string, off-centre hits, vibration etc is wishful thinking on our part, thinking that we can just change our equipment and the problem will resolve. TE is coming more from us than the racquet.
 

Lorenn

Semi-Pro
Make sure you rehab the elbow. Look up Tyler Twists. I would likely keep doing them after recovery if the elbow is a frequent problem.
 

esgee48

Legend
There are other options before switching frames. I wouls try the thinnest guage TBS you can find, which may be 18/19 Ga at a tension that yields the same DT. If that does not work, switch to 17 Ga SG to firmer multi 17 Ga. Trial various tensions. If none of this works, then change frames.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Well to clearify things a little, i dont think my body is like most peoples bodys are. For some reason when i get an inflammation of some kind, have had knee tendonitis to, it sticks to me like grim death! Even if its a very mild one it just wont go away. I have only had TE twice in my life, one elbow each, and by that i mean i have never had the sympthom even once before i got a mild case of it after one session of tennis when it happened, and it took me 8 to 10 months to get rid of it, not playing any tennis during that time. Rehab exercises only make things worse for me, the only thing that has worked and that goes for my kneeproblems as well has been cortisone shots and long periods of rest. I recently started a new anti inflammatory diet, im hoping that perhaps that can make me more normal in this sense once i get over the TE that ive had for about 8 months right now....But as you can see its not a matter of having used equipment that previously took a toll on my elbow, something bad happened once, and that was enough to give me an inflammation that wouldnt go away....
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Curious, if stiff racquets and poly strings are blamed for TE/GE why did so many folks get it playing with wood frames BITD?
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
My POG 107 and Phantom 107G are both very arm friendly and I have a sensitive arm. Only thing arm friendlier in my racket armamentarium is the Ported Phantom 100.

TE taking 8-10 months to go away is not actually that unusual. I've had TE and GE both of which took about a year to get better. I was foolish enough to keep playing but smart enough to get a really soft set up and look at the parts of my technique that needed adjusting.

So my advice is ditch poly, get an arm friendly frame like a Phantom, Clash, Blade v7, Gravity. Do flex bar exercises, massage and stretching. Don't do cortisone. Rest and Ice instead of the inflammation is acute. If you are prone to tendinopathies, get your cholesterol checked. Familial high cholesterol is not uncommonly found in people prone to tendon issues.
 

Lorenn

Semi-Pro
Curious, if stiff racquets and poly strings are blamed for TE/GE why did so many folks get it playing with wood frames BITD?
Even if you are careful(meaning have soft racquets etc) bad techinque can still injure the joints. The true problem arises when someone has good techinque and the injury still happens.

Well to clarify things a little, i don't think my body is like most peoples bodies are. For some reason when i get an inflammation of some kind, have had knee tendonitis to, it sticks to me like grim death! Even if its a very mild one it just wont go away. I have only had TE twice in my life, one elbow each, and by that i mean i have never had the symptom even once before i got a mild case of it after one session of tennis when it happened, and it took me 8 to 10 months to get rid of it, not playing any tennis during that time. Rehab exercises only make things worse for me, the only thing that has worked and that goes for my knee problems as well has been cortisone shots and long periods of rest. I recently started a new anti inflammatory diet, im hoping that perhaps that can make me more normal in this sense once i get over the TE that I have had for about 8 months right now....But as you can see its not a matter of having used equipment that previously took a toll on my elbow, something bad happened once, and that was enough to give me an inflammation that wouldn't go away....

Chronic Inflammation would be where I would start. Basically my normal thought process is each persons body can handle so much inflammation. You might have a stressor like a untreated injury or infection.(dental issues would be a good place for an infection to hide, Sinus) You could be exposed to something in your enviroment. Something your body just doesn't like. Your body could just be geared to process less. Auto immune issues would be a scary potential cause. Proper diet and walking normally helps most things:) I prefer ice and rest over cortisone myself as one just hides the potential issue.
 

Yamin

Semi-Pro
Blade 104 v7 sir. TE only twice... don't think you need to switch frames .... Just do some exercises after it heals and stretch it before playing. Push your wrist down and back towards your body and hold.
 

Agilemaster

New User
I suffered from TE for years and had a surgery a few years back. In most cases, it goes away with rest/ice/physical therapy. In my case, it didn't and I had to have a surgery after playing through TE for several years. Some other stuff that may help: Make sure to have a proper grip size, I changed mine to a larger grip so I don't have to squeeze too hard. Multi or gut instead of poly with low tension. Racquets with low stiffness. I play with Phantoms and I plan to change to 107G from 100P. I even changed from one-handed backhand to two-handed backhand after the surgery. One handed backhand is the biggest culprit for people that don't have the right technique.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Even if you are careful(meaning have soft racquets etc) bad techinque can still injure the joints. The true problem arises when someone has good techinque and the injury still happens.




Chronic Inflammation would be where I would start. Basically my normal thought process is each persons body can handle so much inflammation. You might have a stressor like a untreated injury or infection.(dental issues would be a good place for an infection to hide, Sinus) You could be exposed to something in your enviroment. Something your body just doesn't like. Your body could just be geared to process less. Auto immune issues would be a scary potential cause. Proper diet and walking normally helps most things:) I prefer ice and rest over cortisone myself as one just hides the potential issue.
Yeah i really have wondered why im so prone to inflammation. I now have changed my diet a while back, and well i really feel great, i used to have other problems that went away like back pain spasms and generally feeling sore, that is all gone. So im thinking if i can just get rid of this chronic inflammation im having right now maybe its gone be better from here on if i continue with the anti inflammtory diet. Its a carnivore diet in case someone wonders....
 

mnttlrg

Professional
How is flex or "too much flex" bad for TE?
When you have a middling or high flex, you can always just sort of pop the ball off the strings, and it redirects well enough. When you have a noodle frame, the onus is on you to generate more plowing force to get the ball to move. And because we all have sketchy technique, we inevitably do a lot of this with our arms.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Tour Bite starts feeling harsh after about 10 hours for me and I cut it out. How long did you play with them before you started feeling the elbow issues?

Most polys should be cut out within 15 hours if you don’t break it sooner. The tension and time that you spent with a poly on your racquet should be the first question asked whenever someone has elbow issues before suspecting the racquet as a cause.
 

Lorenn

Semi-Pro
Yeah i really have wondered why im so prone to inflammation. I now have changed my diet a while back, and well i really feel great, i used to have other problems that went away like back pain spasms and generally feeling sore, that is all gone. So im thinking if i can just get rid of this chronic inflammation im having right now maybe its gone be better from here on if i continue with the anti inflammtory diet. Its a carnivore diet in case someone wonders....
I am sure you are trying everything, I find Turmeric and Serrapeptase helps. Avoiding refined foods is the main push. Whole food diets in general work well. Look at how much it improved Novak's game to eat well.
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
@Arvid A shank on your racquet is still going to be a bad mis-hit on an OS racquet, unless you're thinking of going super-OS like the Big Bubba. An OS racquet is most helpful on shots when you slightly mis-hit - those will feel solid and the ball will go closer to where you're aiming it. On bad mis-hits, an OS racquet can sometimes generate more shock - if you catch a ball on the frame to the sides of the sweetspot, the racquet can twist with more force in your hand.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Used to ice my elbow after playing BITD to reduce swelling. Guess applying heat before playing makes sense.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Yeah i really have wondered why im so prone to inflammation. I now have changed my diet a while back, and well i really feel great, i used to have other problems that went away like back pain spasms and generally feeling sore, that is all gone. So im thinking if i can just get rid of this chronic inflammation im having right now maybe its gone be better from here on if i continue with the anti inflammtory diet. Its a carnivore diet in case someone wonders....
Tendinopathies are degenerative processes rather than inflammatory. Which is why cortisone merely masks pain and doesn't heal the tendon. Getting blood flow to the tendon and creating resilience with proper strengthening and stretching methods is the treatment of choice.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Tour Bite starts feeling harsh after about 10 hours for me and I cut it out. How long did you play with them before you started feeling the elbow issues?

Most polys should be cut out within 15 hours if you don’t break it sooner. The tension and time that you spent with a poly on your racquet should be the first question asked whenever someone has elbow issues before suspecting the racquet as a cause.
These rackets never felt harsh, my TE was caused from 1 windy practice session against a backboard....
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
@Arvid A shank on your racquet is still going to be a bad mis-hit on an OS racquet, unless you're thinking of going super-OS like the Big Bubba. An OS racquet is most helpful on shots when you slightly mis-hit - those will feel solid and the ball will go closer to where you're aiming it. On bad mis-hits, an OS racquet can sometimes generate more shock - if you catch a ball on the frame to the sides of the sweetspot, the racquet can twist with more force in your hand.
Of course those would be almost a complete whiff with a midsize frame. Not many people I know mishit that badly. But that is why a player's OS is better as they have a much higher TW than a super light granny OS
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Tendinopathies are degenerative processes rather than inflammatory. Which is why cortisone merely masks pain and doesn't heal the tendon. Getting blood flow to the tendon and creating resilience with proper strengthening and stretching methods is the treatment of choice.
Well yeah thats what most people say, but i have done exercises to death and it only makes things worse for me, same thing when i had knee tendonitis as well....only worse...
 

Bagumbawalla

Hall of Fame
You might try to demo some rackest with proven arm saving qualities.
Possibly start with the Pro Kennex ki q + tour pro (325).
It may be time for a new racket, anyway.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
R

Im not so sure...ive been playing for years and years with this setup without getting any armproblems whatsoever...
Many people mistake the onset of symptoms with the onset of the pathologic illness. They are frequently not the same. The tendon will be degenerating but compensating day after day until one day it can't and then the pain starts. All the pathologic studies of TE show that it's not a primarily inflammatory disease. It's a degenerative condition related to frequent micro-trauma, scarring, collagen breakdown, failure of regeneration and eventual structural failure.

I played with Babolat's (APD, PD) for a decade then one day I couldn't. I could blame the poly string setup but it was likely all the previous years of poly string setups and stiff rackets and aging that did the tendon in. Not that day my Alu went dead.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Well yeah thats what most people say, but i have done exercises to death and it only makes things worse for me, same thing when i had knee tendonitis as well....only worse...
Which exercises? Only eccentric exercises tend to help.

And seriously, get your cholesterol checked.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Which exercises? Only eccentric exercises tend to help.

And seriously, get your cholesterol checked.
Yeah all kinds of excentric exercises you can think of pretty much....never done anything else. Ive also seen a physio when i had te in my left elbow...he did dry needling and gave me exercises....didnt help...well sure could be worth checking the cholesterol but it would be weird i guess cause im in such good health and shape...
 

cortado

Semi-Pro
Even if you are careful(meaning have soft racquets etc) bad techinque can still injure the joints. The true problem arises when someone has good techinque and the injury still happens.




Chronic Inflammation would be where I would start. Basically my normal thought process is each persons body can handle so much inflammation. You might have a stressor like a untreated injury or infection.(dental issues would be a good place for an infection to hide, Sinus) You could be exposed to something in your enviroment. Something your body just doesn't like. Your body could just be geared to process less. Auto immune issues would be a scary potential cause. Proper diet and walking normally helps most things:) I prefer ice and rest over cortisone myself as one just hides the potential issue.
I don't see why good technique should stop you from getting tennis elbow/golfer's elbow etc. Whatever technique you have, you are still doing something with your arm that is above and beyond just 'normal' day-to-day use. You're exerting yourself, and the muscles, tendons and bones of your arm strengthen in response. But too much is still too much +/- ageing too.
 

Lorenn

Semi-Pro
I don't see why good technique should stop you from getting tennis elbow/golfer's elbow etc. Whatever technique you have, you are still doing something with your arm that is above and beyond just 'normal' day-to-day use. You're exerting yourself, and the muscles, tendons and bones of your arm strengthen in response. But too much is still too much +/- ageing too.
I didn't say good technique made someone immune to it...I said having good technique and getting tennis elbow anyways is a troubling sign. Can you imagine bad technique making this worse? Gripping a racquet too tightly? Using mostly muscle to swing? Having your arm in the wrong place when you are striking the ball? Using the wrong/dead strings...Overly stiff racquet?
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
I used to get TE but I guess lessons and fewer racket/string "stunts" have helped. Pictured below is my TE kit, but haven't had to use it for a few years. The racket is a PCG 107. I tried the entire kit of Thera Band Flex Bars but they didn't help, but my kit did.

I was able to play through TE rehab using that PCG107 and I think it was partially responsible for rehab. Strings matter too. Just in case - I have multiple POG 107s, 8 Rad OSs and a new Prince 107G plus several dozens of other rackets that are all below 66RA and many quite lower. I would never advise using a light stiff OS racket regardless of how you string it. Light stiff OS rackets were what gave me my last bout. I would weight them up to 11.5oz even though they varied from 27.5" and longer. The last two times I swung a RF97A, two different versions, I knew in 10 minutes that they were trouble and gave one demo back to the dealer and traded off for string the later 2 models.

Also, regarding the Rad OS's. I have a nice Bumble Bee and Candy Cane, along with 4 different models of orange themed (lighter) Rad OS's. I think the Candy Cane with its older style TK82 pallet (I think that is it) can be prone to exacerbating TE, but I have TK82S pallets coming to resolve that. I'll put one on the Bumble Bee but that racket plays more comfortably to me vs the Candy Cane. My favorite "orange" Rad OS right now is the IG Youtek. However, due to the Rad OS's seemingly considerably tighter 18x19 stringbed vs the POG 107s more open 16x19 I think the POG 107 wins in terms of comfort as a rehab stick.

I think my TE kit works pretty well, if you have questions about it PM me:
 
Last edited:

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
Of course those would be almost a complete whiff with a midsize frame. Not many people I know mishit that badly. But that is why a player's OS is better as they have a much higher TW than a super light granny OS
I mis-hit that badly between two and five times a competitive set. Probably at least once or twice when I'm in control and trying to take a big swing at a ball on the rise, but misjudge it and then don't realize that until it's too late. The other times are when I'm pressed hard on defense and am trying for a hail Mary shot.

Twistweight helps if you make contact on the strings. Any hit that catches the frame is going to create a lot of twisting no matter what the twistweight is.
 
My POG 107 and Phantom 107G are both very arm friendly and I have a sensitive arm. Only thing arm friendlier in my racket armamentarium is the Ported Phantom 100.

TE taking 8-10 months to go away is not actually that unusual. I've had TE and GE both of which took about a year to get better. I was foolish enough to keep playing but smart enough to get a really soft set up and look at the parts of my technique that needed adjusting.

So my advice is ditch poly, get an arm friendly frame like a Phantom, Clash, Blade v7, Gravity. Do flex bar exercises, massage and stretching. Don't do cortisone. Rest and Ice instead of the inflammation is acute. If you are prone to tendinopathies, get your cholesterol checked. Familial high cholesterol is not uncommonly found in people prone to tendon issues.

Definite i think give the Phantom 107 a swing
 
I have some Volkl Powerbridge V1 oversize that I have added leather grips, then re- balanced by adding lead at 10&2 to cover the difference the leather and Synthetic grips, these are strung with head Rip control. I usually use player frames like the Vcore98+, but these have proven ver solid dampened and comfy frames, Volkl's dampening tech might help, they are 303grams strung for the current version so a tad lighter than the Microgel Rad OS.
 

PT280 Fan

Semi-Pro
Suffering from TE right now so not playing but eventually i guess il be fine and once its time to start playing again im thinking of playing with my head radical tour os rackets. Heres the thing, this is the second time ive gotten TE once in my left arm and once in my right arm and i play with some of the softest frames there is, head pro tour 630. So the TE that ive gotten has never been something building up, it struck like ligtning from never having had it before to getting it in my right arm after one windy practise session against a backboard, and my only conclusion is that it came from isolated instances where there were shanks involved since these raquets that i have played with are so soft and comfortable. So im simply thinking OS raquet cleaner hitting less shanks, less chance of getting my TE back....am i thinking right or not?
Not in my experience. I've had more instances of wrist, elbow and and shoulder issues with rackets over the 98" threshold. I can only speculate as to the reason, but I would think it has something to do with the added drag as well as the added torque on off center hits. I mean this is assuming that you're a banger presently and have no intention of changing that disposition with the equipment change. Pushers don't have a lot to worry about IMO.

I would suspect that you're using poly in that PT630 even if it's in hybrid form. I have that racket and have never had any form of arm trauma associated with it, course I don't use poly anymore either. I do use kevlar which is extremely stiff at low tension in the mains and Zyex which is extremely soft at higher tension (9lbs) in the crosses to average out to 50lbs. If you insist on a poly, pair it with either zyex or natural gut.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
Not in my experience. I've had more instances of wrist, elbow and and shoulder issues with rackets over the 98" threshold. I can only speculate as to the reason, but I would think it has something to do with the added drag as well as the added torque on off center hits. I mean this is assuming that you're a banger presently and have no intention of changing that disposition with the equipment change. Pushers don't have a lot to worry about IMO.

I would suspect that you're using poly in that PT630 even if it's in hybrid form. I have that racket and have never had any form of arm trauma associated with it, course I don't use poly anymore either. I do use kevlar which is extremely stiff at low tension in the mains and Zyex which is extremely soft at higher tension (9lbs) in the crosses to average out to 50lbs. If you insist on a poly, pair it with either zyex or natural gut.
Solinco tourbite soft at 45lbs felt like an absolute pillow to play with....so generally of course i couldnt imagine that setup would give anyone TE...
 

esm

Hall of Fame
Solinco tourbite soft at 45lbs felt like an absolute pillow to play with....so generally of course i couldnt imagine that setup would give anyone TE...
it seems you always have a comeback to all/most of the recommendations and suggestion to your TE problems - maybe it is time to replace the so called absolute pillow feeling poly you have on your PT630 with a full bed of multi, at least, and see if anything improves.
 

Arvid

Semi-Pro
it seems you always have a comeback to all/most of the recommendations and suggestion to your TE problems - maybe it is time to replace the so called absolute pillow feeling poly you have on your PT630 with a full bed of multi, at least, and see if anything improves.
Well if it was that simple only, i havent played with anything for about 8 months now...wish i could but theres no way, swinging the racket in the air can aggravate my elbow, its that sensitive. So i can only say what that setup did for me before i got the TE cause after that i havent used anything...
 

gvsbdisco

Semi-Pro
I agree with @graycrait ... if you can swing it, the POG 107 is super easy on the arm and very high performance. i can play full poly in that racquet without any arm tweaking. It is difficult to whip that forehand through with it though. Just pick up a 4 stripe cheap on **** and have at 'er.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I agree with @graycrait ... if you can swing it, the POG 107 is super easy on the arm and very high performance. i can play full poly in that racquet without any arm tweaking. It is difficult to whip that forehand through with it though. Just pick up a 4 stripe cheap on **** and have at 'er.
thats why I’m grooving with the Phantom 107G. Easier to swing than the POG but still just as arm friendly.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
Well if it was that simple only, i havent played with anything for about 8 months now...wish i could but theres no way, swinging the racket in the air can aggravate my elbow, its that sensitive. So i can only say what that setup did for me before i got the TE cause after that i havent used anything...
well... if the PT630 with the poly caused you the TE, then the first thing you need to do after you can swing a racquet is very clear...
i am not a string breaker and i don't usually use poly.... (well... i don't have the "need" to have to use the poly...) and with my usually syn gut and/or multi setup, i never had any issues with my PT630/RT630/RT CC/PT2.0/UT/TC97/Pure Strike/Blade 98.... etc
 
Top