J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru

Bend those knees Rog!
J
I'm not criticising your laid back wrists. I WISH I could to that. I'm not really criticising your upright stance and narrow feet, just an observation and something I can do also.
It's possible to have a laid back wrist before striking the ball, then a firm wrist at impact. You only tighten your grip at impact.
Remember, I keep saying my forehand sucks, which it does.
^^^ His feet are much further apart than it looks in the still. It is an optical illusion.
If you start a shot with your knees bent, and hit the ball with your knees bent, you didn't accomplish anything by bending your knees except getting lower.
J
yeah, my goal is to try and be relaxed while hitting, which includes my wrist.. its something i didnt do before, but at the very least my wrist isnt so rigid as it used to be
Here is a shot sequence from behind..
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I'm looking at those pictured shots where both Fed and the TT poster have their arm completely straight, as in a 180 degree angle at the elbow. If that doesn't lead to TE I would be really surprised.
aim, thanks for sharing the pics.Would you say you have a lot of spin on your FH?? I ask because your racquet face never faces the ground before impact. Not that one has to do this to impact spin, but was just curious.Love the extension you get on your FH.
Ive never gotten TE.. dont think a straight arm technique causes it.. It would be a good bet Federer hasnt gotten TE using a straight arm![]()
aim, thanks for sharing the pics. Love the extension you get on your FH.
Would you say you have a lot of spin on your FH?? I ask because your racquet face never faces the ground before impact. Not that one has to do this to impact spin, but was just curious.
The straight arm technique does increase a players risk to get tennis elbow.
In order to reduce this risk, a player needs to understand what needs to be done.
The main keys to hitting like Federer are:
1. You must maintain an elastic wrist area. The reason for this is just before contact you want the elasticity in the wrist to allow the hand to accelerate forward for the impact with the ball. This release helps reduce shock that could be sent to the elbow if you maintained a firm wrist and arm.
2. The arm needs to be relaxed through the entire motion and even as the arm extends in the forward portion of the swing.
3. A player needs to make contact with his elbow in front of the body plane. This is usually something that doesn't need to be taught as players will do this if they are doing the steps before that reasonably correct. However, this is a check point that a coach needs to watch and make sure the player is doing.
If a player performs these main areas, the straight-arm is fine provided other things check out the support it.
Fed slo mo vidThe reason for this is just before contact you want the elasticity in the wrist to allow the hand to accelerate forward for the impact with the ball.
Drak, i can generate a pretty good amount of spin, but with the way i hit its not hard to hit flat as well..
When you mention the racquet face not facing the ground, at what point of the swing are you referring to? in the fourth pic, the position is more or less in that 'pat the dog' position where the racquet is pointing to the ground
aimr, thanks! Yeah, I saw that photo. I was referring more to the racquet face being closed as you approach the ball with your forward swing.
For instance, in my FH I have my racquet face closed longer than you do. Was just curious if you felt you get a lot of spin.
ah right.. im not too sure how much it plays a part in spin, maybe somebody can chime in on that.. id be interested to know
here is a shot sequence of fed.. but please, dont take this in any way me comparing my swing to his since that would be ridiculous.. i just thought id show that federer seems to have the face opened for quite some time in the forward swing.. as we know, he can generate crazy spin.. so, im not sure what the answer is
^^^ Racquet is waist high at the drop, contact is shoulder high. I would think any lower would be superfluous.
J
ah right.. im not too sure how much it plays a part in spin, maybe somebody can chime in on that.. id be interested to know
here is a shot sequence of fed.. but please, dont take this in any way me comparing my swing to his since that would be ridiculous.. i just thought id show that federer seems to have the face opened for quite some time in the forward swing.. as we know, he can generate crazy spin.. so, im not sure what the answer is
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Maybe,
but I think the camera angle is deceiving and the contact is well below the shoulder and the loop is slightly above the waist. In any respect, the swing path as it approaches the contact is clearly not steep by any standard IMO.
Obviously just hitting around in practice, but perhaps there is something to be learned there?
You know that I am not at all a fan of steep swingpaths, so maybe I am biased.
Still kicking around ideas, I will write something up when I have decided what I think.
J
Yes, we are not on the same side of the spectrum when it comes to preference of angle of swing path, haha.
I tend to like the options a hard dipping ball gives me and normally will only flatten out trajectory to the extent I can still generate some pretty good spin and to an opened court. Of course I play mostly dubs where the spin gives even better payoff IMO. Hard wide angles, making net players volley up, and well hidden TS lobs from out of nowhere when most of Fhs have steep paths, are things that win tons of easy points.
Amazing that two people on TW can have different views on something and talk about it without calling one and other an idiot, and proclaiming their way superior.
Thoughts?
J
Of course, I am different from the others we are talking about as I have a much more extreme grip and very bent arm (Would like to transition to a straighter arm, working on it.)
^^ I'd have to respectively disagree about the Federer bit, Seeing him live, 2008-2009 US open..His forehand pierces the court 75% of the time, He hits with A LOT of topspin but its not the loopy type, it really rotates into the court. When he wants to he can raise his trajectory but I'd say 3/4 vorhands are hitting through the court taking time away from his opponents.
Also jollys shots are usually landing around the feet, it would take an exceptionally talented 4.5 player to take these strikes on the rise(consistently) & return it back to a place where they can hurt him.
Also Jolly does raise his trajectory and hits slower in sets for example: http://vimeo.com/3314019
I agree that if jolly was to take the tips you have passed on to him and practice them, that would be a scary heavy ball he would produce. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
For comparison sake, this video provided by aimr75 demonstrates a pro's [gasquets] insane spin[even with a continental forehand!!] (no wonder he camps so deep behind the baseline). http://vimeo.com/2902674 .So I believe its a style difference, but the best can mix it up, as you can see when gasquet & fed attacks they almost always lower the trajectory and hit through that court with insane racquet head speed.
--HOWEVER I cannot speak for J011y and I have no intentions of just bumping my head into you guys conversation, I just wanted to add my spin into it. Feel free to tell me off.
I think my Golfers Elbow (GE) is because I'm trying to turn my wrist too far back to get extra topspin on my forehand backswing. I'm thinking of locking my wrist on future forehands. Maybe that will help with the pain.
i think i recall you saying you had a western grip, is that right? I would have thought it would be very difficult to straighten out the arm with that grip.. i pretty much use an eastern, but when ive dabbled with a SW, even that is erring on the side of uncomfortable with a straight arm
I know its doable though using a SW with straight arm (nadal)
IMO, to take the next step, you are going to have to hit more out front with a contact that is more up and across and balls that are 1-3 feet higher over the net on avg, with another 15% more spin and much more focus on timing. With your natural power, it would be like facing big, fast, kick serves- all over the court, that would be jumping about shoulder high. My son that plays D1 was working me over with this kind of attack all week. It was not fun to face.
--HOWEVER I cannot speak for J011y and I have no intentions of just bumping my head into you guys conversation, I just wanted to add my spin into it. Feel free to tell me off.
lol wtf jolly is an awful player in every video I've seen (this one included). what heavy ball are you talking about? are we watching the same video? I see a disastrous serve, a weak, flawed forehand, and a weak, flawed backhand. oh and crap movement. I don't mean to beat up on the guy gratuitously, but if you consider him a good player then nobody should be heeding your tennis advice.
lol wtf jolly is an awful player in every video I've seen (this one included). what heavy ball are you talking about? are we watching the same video? I see a disastrous serve, a weak, flawed forehand, and a weak, flawed backhand. oh and crap movement. I don't mean to beat up on the guy gratuitously, but if you consider him a good player then nobody should be heeding your tennis advice.
^^ I'd have to respectively disagree about the Federer bit, Seeing him live, 2008-2009 US open..His forehand pierces the court 75% of the time, He hits with A LOT of topspin but its not the loopy type, it really rotates into the court. When he wants to he can raise his trajectory but I'd say 3/4 vorhands are hitting through the court taking time away from his opponents.
Also jollys shots are usually landing around the feet, it would take an exceptionally talented 4.5 player to take these strikes on the rise(consistently) & return it back to a place where they can hurt him.
Also Jolly does raise his trajectory and hits slower in sets for example: http://vimeo.com/3314019
I agree that if jolly was to take the tips you have passed on to him and practice them, that would be a scary heavy ball he would produce. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
For comparison sake, this video provided by aimr75 demonstrates a pro's [gasquets] insane spin[even with a continental forehand!!] (no wonder he camps so deep behind the baseline). http://vimeo.com/2902674 .So I believe its a style difference, but the best can mix it up, as you can see when gasquet & fed attacks they almost always lower the trajectory and hit through that court with insane racquet head speed.
--HOWEVER I cannot speak for J011y and I have no intentions of just bumping my head into you guys conversation, I just wanted to add my spin into it. Feel free to tell me off.
lol wtf jolly is an awful player in every video I've seen (this one included). what heavy ball are you talking about? are we watching the same video? I see a disastrous serve, a weak, flawed forehand, and a weak, flawed backhand. oh and crap movement. I don't mean to beat up on the guy gratuitously, but if you consider him a good player then nobody should be heeding your tennis advice.
Glad to see your comments and interest, except that you don't seem to notice we are saying about the same things in general.
On Fed, I said the trouble starts when he goes too far in that direction. It's a relative thing and too far for Fed is not the same as too far for Jolly. I never suggested that Fed hits a softer loopy ball on avg! IMO Fed struggled (for him anyway) in early 08 because he was trying to hit thru the court too much even for him, which resulted in high UE counts and missing long quite often. He did better in the US open you cite and won in 08 and did well up until latter sets of the final in 09, where several things went wrong for him.
I also never suggested Jolly should not mix it up, but in fact that is what I think he should do. In the vid there was not much of a mix, and if you think there was, I would have to disagree on that point. I pointed out the one ball that I thought he did something a little dif with in the direction I'm suggesting.
Jolly, I'm not one of the trolls busting on you here, but given some match results and even more your comments about how your serve must account for you getting games on better players, IMO you need to realize that there is a need to make more shots in a row on your avg point. I don't think I would have to read those comments by you or see match results to have figured this out that consistency needs to improve for you to win more matches. It is evident in that current stroke to me that you will miss too often. I think you are seeing this too and making some excellent adjustments in form and mental approach. And also agree, you still have to take your cuts at times and enjoy this game, as that is why we play. You don't want to lose that aspect of your game anyway!
I agree pretty much with what you said, and appreciate the input. The only 4.5s that can really stand up to me in a groundstroke game are the top singles/sandbagging (in the eye of the observer) players and up. Against the very best players that I play, I need my serve to carry me (I still lose of course, but it is the serve that lets me put up some games on the board) because their movement and shot anticipation is so much better, if not the quality of the ball, that in a rally off the ground every shot I lose a little bit of a step on them until they win the point. They also change direction on the ball better than I do.
Video really takes away from the pace/spin of the shots, but I currently hit a pretty mean ball, and have hit with probably over 40 boardmembers.
As far as taking the shots on the rise and returning them back. I have a buddy whom I would call the 5.0 equiv of Gilles Simon. Dude stands right in on the baseline and hits everything on the rise, and changes direction on the ball incredibly well. My serve is bigger, but we have the most fierce baseline points ever, with me basically throwing the kitchen sink at him, and him standing in and dishing it back out. Not uncommon for us to have several 30+ stroke points in baseline games to 21.
J
Well, I know I'm the one who looks bad here, but somebody has to say it. Oh well.
Come on man, why do you talk like this after people posted your results? The only people that can stand up to your are 4.5's that are actually sand bagging? Why do you say that kinda thing?
If I were you I would re-evaluate your game. Have you ever considered that you use a racquet that is way too heavy for you? Look at your videos. You look like you have trouble heaving that thing that around. It certainly doesn't look like something that is easy for you. You lose to every 4.0 and up pretty much in tournaments, based on the records that people posted here. You have claimed to have world class coaching. What are they teaching you? If that was the case, shouldn't you be regularly beating 4.0's and above? What about the beating a 3.5 with a broom? Or saying you hit more topspin than anyone on the planet (a couple years back)? Or talking about winning junior tournaments with "exceptional footwork", which seems to be an area you are really lacking in based on your vids? I mean I KNOW I suck, and that's why I leave the garbage in my videos. If the pros are making mistakes by the dozens in their matches, why do people on youtube edit them all out to make it look like they are tennis geniuses that never make an error? Absurd.
I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but man, you really know how to talk some trash. Why do you do it? Where do you get the idea to name a simple kevlar/poly hybrid after yourself, and AFTER someone else suggested it to you in the first place?
To everyone else, you gotta stop lionizing this guy, just because of how he talks. Based on his videos, there isn't a ton of pace and spin on his shots. Look how long the shots take to go from end to end. I see no kick off the court, even on the clay, and the guy he is always playing with looks like an out of shape older man who can barely keep the ball in play.
Man, seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it gets tiresome to constantly read this load in almost every section on this board. Of course I can "not read it" as is often the retort, but I dunno. Isn't that like saying, if you don't like pollution move to a different city? Why wouldn't we just clean things up?
Well, I know I'm the one who looks bad here, but somebody has to say it. Oh well.
^^^ Does that mean you will take the bet?
J