Are you have happy switching to a crossover/SUV/PickUp over a sedan/sports car?

Crazy Finn said:
Most American sports cars are just sedans shortened to coupes and stuffed with a big engine. They're designed to be loud, maybe go fast, mostly in a general straight line. There are exceptions, but...

I prefer handling. My college car - 1988 Prelude was great, the 92 was pretty good, too.

I drove some friend's GM "sport" sedan, once. He raved about the "power." I thought that it sure sounded like it was going somewhere, and eventually might get there....
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Had an 88 Prelude with 4WS. Unreal handling
 
Mongolmike said:
However, I've got the itch for a rear wheel drive V-8 with a manual. Wanna break the back end loose, burn outs... stupid stuff.
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Get a Viper, they're going for cheap now, the modern version of the AC Shelby Cobra--windows, an easy drop-top, Tremec manual tranny only, and room for two sets of golf clubs in the trunk.
 
Mr.Lob said:
Hmmm. I think the newer model Rav4's are smaller...at least height wise. I liked the styling of the earlier models. The model year where the spare tire is encased on the rear hatch is fairly sharp.
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We have one of those, a 2010 with the v6 option. Now has about 90k miles on it. I've modified it with a set of stiffer rear springs and shocks from the 3 row seat model and put some more negative camber at all four wheels. It has transformed the handling in our lighter two row model. Mild understeer with some throttle sensitivity, and enough body lean to let her know how hard she is cornering, kind of like a Miata. Still, I have been trying and trying to get my wife to trade it in for a Macan, which is by far the best handling SUV I've driven, and I've driven everything short of six figures. She won't do it. The Rav4 is like her baby, and she loves the way it drives and the simplicity, and doesn't want the "sea of buttons" that the modern cars have.

I've always been a car guy and have tinkered with the suspension on every car we own. It's kind of like adding lead to a racquet - it seems to make it more ours, and it doesn't take much to really enhance the driving experience in any modern car.
 
Mongolmike said:
I don't think that is true. I haven't test driven one, but the handling is solid from what I've read.
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I've driven one on a track and they are seriously fast and well balanced cars for as heavy and tall as they are. Any of the recent ones with the MR shocks can do things only the best 1% of suspensions can dream of. I have an older track car with a modified first gen MR shock and the second gen MR shocks on the Camaro is leagues beyond it. You can hit the exit curbing at full throttle and it will basically just shake it off. You do that in my car and the seat gets stained. Stiff and balanced on the track, and cushy on the street. The technology really is amazing.
 
tennis tom said:
Get a Viper, they're going for cheap now, the modern version of the AC Shelby Cobra--windows, an easy drop-top, Tremec manual tranny only, and room for two sets of golf clubs in the trunk.
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not a car I'd want to drive regularly.. I attended the Skip Barber High Performance Driving School some years ago at Lime Rock Raceway and on the last day we all got to drive a race-prepared Viper around the track -- tiny crowded interior, poor ventilation and visibility, and you have to be careful not to burn your leg getting in over the very wide lower door sill that has an exhaust pipe running through it.
 
Injured Again said:
I've driven one on a track and they are seriously fast and well balanced cars for as heavy and tall as they are. Any of the recent ones with the MR shocks can do things only the best 1% of suspensions can dream of. I have an older track car with a modified first gen MR shock and the second gen MR shocks on the Camaro is leagues beyond it. You can hit the exit curbing at full throttle and it will basically just shake it off. You do that in my car and the seat gets stained. Stiff and balanced on the track, and cushy on the street. The technology really is amazing.
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That was my understanding too... that it is well balanced and handles as well or better than 90% of the cars on the road under 100k. Saying it is a death trap with zero handling...smh. I suppose a Honda Civic Type R is just an econobox too, right?
 
Mongolmike said:
That was my understanding too... that it is well balanced and handles as well or better than 90% of the cars on the road under 100k. Saying it is a death trap with zero handling...smh. I suppose a Honda Civic Type R is just an econobox too, right?
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I stand corrected, Mongol. I just checked with Chris Harris and he loves the Camaro.

And no, the Type R is not an econobox.
 
ollinger said:
...tiny crowded interior, poor ventilation and visibility, and you have to be careful not to burn your leg getting in over the very wide lower door sill that has an exhaust pipe running through it.
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Yup! That's what real race cars are like. And, the Viper has a "cheap plastic interior"! To improve "ventilation" get the roadster and put the well designed top down, after you burn your leg the first time you won't do it again, they are a bit warm to the touch, Vettes and Cobras have similar exhausts that are much less protected then the vipers. The Viper is a great deal today and will only appreciate--if you don't wreck it--half of them wreck (it's not the cars fault, it's the "nut behind the wheel"--there should be a warning sticker "Don't drive with high-heels!". The Viper is a street legal race car that held all the track records in it's day from the Nurburgring to Laguna Seca and was the drifting champion--but it's not for everybody, you need a light touch or you'll wind up in the ditch or the ocean.
 
GF drives X5 and I drive a lowly 3 series..love sitting up higher at times in hers but I like the smoother close to the road feel more.. she doesn't like sitting in my car much because feels too low to her..
 
Faris said:
I drive a lowly 3 series..
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Bimmer 3's are nice, I've had three, a 325, 328 & a 330, all red 'verts. Almost got an M3 but couldn't get it in the right color red. Got the 325 when they came out with the first convertible after the "death of the convertible" due to the first fuel crisis--bought it on Christmas Eve off the showroom floor for a Christmas present to myself. Would probably still have it but my brother wrecked it--he doesn't drive so good, he also blew up the engine on an MGA I had. Liked the lines on the 325's, nice compact squarish design.
 
tennis tom said:
Bimmer 3's are nice, I've had three, a 325, 328 & a 330, all red 'verts. Almost got an M3 but couldn't get it in the right color red. Got the 325 when they came out with the first convertible after the "death of the convertible" due to the first fuel crisis--bought it on Christmas Eve off the showroom floor for a Christmas present to myself. Would probably still have it but my brother wrecked it--he doesn't drive so good, he also blew up the engine on an MGA I had. Liked the lines on the 325's, nice compact squarish design.
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We got the second E36 328i to come into the states, in March 1996. Here it is when we put it up for sale a couple of years ago, with about 140k miles on the odometer, and probably at least 10-15k of those miles on a race track doing driving events:

uc


Great control feedback, but obviously a car from a different generation. Even with the sports package and later modifications including higher rate springs, Bilstein HDs and upgraded sways, it still had two to three times the amount of body roll that modern sporty cars have.

The paint was original and still polished up nicely. The engine still had as-new compression and didn't burn any oil. Hated to see it go but after so much time, it started to leak in various places and the cost to replace all of the seals was more than it was worth. And at that time, I had a first gen Miata that shared a lot of the same driving attributes in a smaller, more nimble, and open-air package.
 
tennis tom said:
Bimmer 3's are nice, I've had three, a 325, 328 & a 330, all red 'verts. Almost got an M3 but couldn't get it in the right color red. Got the 325 when they came out with the first convertible after the "death of the convertible" due to the first fuel crisis--bought it on Christmas Eve off the showroom floor for a Christmas present to myself. Would probably still have it but my brother wrecked it--he doesn't drive so good, he also blew up the engine on an MGA I had. Liked the lines on the 325's, nice compact squarish design.
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E36 were a little before my time unfortunately so no idea about them. I wrecked my older sisters brand new 328 back in 2013 (she had just gotten it after finishing her residency with maybe 6 miles on the odometer off showroom floor). Car hydroplaned on a big puddle, slid right into that wall. Thankfully not a scratch on me... I still hear about it it till this day though from her, lol.. I drive F30 now, a 2016 340 nowadays.. same shape. Fantastic car.

 
@Faris Wow, what a story! And you got on the BMW bandwagon after that first experience. The F30's fortunately didn't get the Bangle butt that the 5 and 7 series did in the years just before the F30 made its debut. That's a really nice looking car and my daughter has a 2017 320i X-drive that she loves.

So when my kids turned 18 and I figured I survived their adolescence, I was in the market for a two seater sports car. That was in 2011 and just coming out of the economic hardships starting in 2008, and the auto industry was still trying to recover. With the intention of buying a track car, I shopped around and ended up getting what I never thought I would own - a Corvette. Couldn't resist getting it factory ordered for 17% under MSRP, and with a free 3-day trip down to the Corvette driving school in Nevada. In these nine years, my wife has driven it **once**, about three months after I got it home. We drive at literally 10 MPH under the speed limit all the way to a freeway onramp, when I told her that it was a well mannered car that wouldn't bite, so she should give it some gas. She probably goes about 80% throttle at about 15 MPH, it shifts into first, and lights up both rear tires. She panics and instead of letting off the gas, I think just stomped down on the gas pedal. We slither along sideways for what seemed like an eternity before she finally got off the gas, fortunately not hitting anything.

I look over at her and say "Well, I didn't quite mean that much gas...". She doesn't say a word. She drives home, parked it, and has never driven it again.
 
Injured Again said:
@Faris Wow, what a story! And you got on the BMW bandwagon after that first experience. The F30's fortunately didn't get the Bangle butt that the 5 and 7 series did in the years just before the F30 made its debut. That's a really nice looking car and my daughter has a 2017 320i X-drive that she loves.

So when my kids turned 18 and I figured I survived their adolescence, I was in the market for a two seater sports car. That was in 2011 and just coming out of the economic hardships starting in 2008, and the auto industry was still trying to recover. With the intention of buying a track car, I shopped around and ended up getting what I never thought I would own - a Corvette. Couldn't resist getting it factory ordered for 17% under MSRP, and with a free 3-day trip down to the Corvette driving school in Nevada. In these nine years, my wife has driven it **once**, about three months after I got it home. We drive at literally 10 MPH under the speed limit all the way to a freeway onramp, when I told her that it was a well mannered car that wouldn't bite, so she should give it some gas. She probably goes about 80% throttle at about 15 MPH, it shifts into first, and lights up both rear tires. She panics and instead of letting off the gas, I think just stomped down on the gas pedal. We slither along sideways for what seemed like an eternity before she finally got off the gas, fortunately not hitting anything.

I look over at her and say "Well, I didn't quite mean that much gas...". She doesn't say a word. She drives home, parked it, and has never driven it again.
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OMG that is a scary yet super funny story! Those Vets are beasts! I'm jealous..I know a coworker whose dad got one in 2016 and went to Nevada at their driver training school..told me he had a blast with the car!

For me, my F30 is my first actual good car, got it as a gift for myself early this year after I finished grad school and got a real job.. Love it! Had a beater toyota before like typical college students do. Always started and never missed a beat so can't say I didn't love it..still parked at my parents..
 
Faris said:
OMG that is a scary yet super funny story! Those Vets are beasts! I'm jealous..I know a coworker whose dad got one in 2016 and went to Nevada at their driver training school..told me he had a blast with the car!

For me, my F30 is my first actual good car, got it as a gift for myself early this year after I finished grad school and got a real job.. Love it! Had a beater toyota before like typical college students do. Always started and never missed a beat so can't say I didn't love it..still parked at my parents..
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You absolutely need those kind of rewards for pushing through the struggle of high achievement goals. For my wife and I, we got married and bought our home when we first got really good jobs. As hard as those times were dealing with the demands of the job and the heavy responsibility of a big mortgage, every day coming home and thinking it was ours, even though really the bank owned it, was an amazing feeling. Here's hoping you get that same satisfaction every time you crank the wheel and press down on the throttle! You've earned it!
 
Injured Again said:
You absolutely need those kind of rewards for pushing through the struggle of high achievement goals. For my wife and I, we got married and bought our home when we first got really good jobs. As hard as those times were dealing with the demands of the job and the heavy responsibility of a big mortgage, every day coming home and thinking it was ours, even though really the bank owned it, was an amazing feeling. Here's hoping you get that same satisfaction every time you crank the wheel and press down on the throttle! You've earned it!
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Thank you!! Really appreciate the kind comment :)
 
I don’t know about you guys but right now the used car market in OZ is pretty hot, it’s a sellers market. In particular in the last 3 months 1990’s Japanese sports coupes have doubled in value and selling quick. Just this last weekend there were 2 Subaru SVX’s listed, one with 108k for 12 grand and the other for 20k with 158k, both sold in 3 days and one even had an oil leak, You’ve got Nissan 300zx non turbos selling at higher prices than a good 350z
 
https://www.autospies.com/news/WHIC...G-FASTER-Honda-Accord-Or-Toyota-Camry-102938/

Here are some highlights of the comments we read...

"One caveat to keep in mind: Toyota does way more in fleet sales for the Camry than Honda does for the Accord. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rental Accord, whereas rental Camrys are a dime a dozen at airports.

I think the sedan sales drop off we're seeing now is coupled both to the economy and the fact that you can get SUVs/crossovers with almost no MPG loss. I doubt sedans will recover, as they're going the way of true station wagons.

Historically I have always felt the Accord was a better looking car, but the recent redesigns have changed my ranking, I'm not fond of the new Accord and I really like the Camry. Also thanks Toyota for hanging on to the NA V6 for a few more years. The Turbo 4 in the Accord looks good on paper but mid size/full size sedans always need a V6."

Of course we know at least in the USA, sedans are the new Grandpa's Oldsmobile but tell us WHY you think Honda has trailed this race as the best seller and now is heading towards the emergency room?
 
I typically get 50-55 MPG on my 2018 Camry. Which SUV gets you that kind of mileage? I have the gasoline engine Camry, not the Hybrid. The Hybrid is rated 51/53 so I could probably get 60+ out of it.
 
Ronaldo said:
Must be on the way, JEEP has added a third shift,
Jeep-Wagoneer-Miami-Lakes-Automall.jpg
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The new upcoming Jeep Grand Cherokee has the infotainment center screen that looks exactly like the upcoming new S Class sedan. Jeep looks like it going be moving to the “premium” luxury class with the GC to compete with Infiniti, Acura, Lincoln, Cadillac models.
 
I don’t like the way that so many manufacturers building so many SUV’s. Probably explains why so many 90’s Japanese sports coupes and GT’s are doubling in price. I would rather own something that looks like a Nissan 300zx or Mitsubishi 3000gt than a Nissan Juke.
If Toyota can build something like a 2000gt in 1967 then they should do so again.
 
Crocodile said:
I don’t like the way that so many manufacturers building so many SUV’s. Probably explains why so many 90’s Japanese sports coupes and GT’s are doubling in price. I would rather own something that looks like a Nissan 300zx or Mitsubishi 3000gt than a Nissan Juke.
If Toyota can build something like a 2000gt in 1967 then they should do so again.
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I saw a guy washing his RX-7 GS two days ago. It was in pristine shape (hard to do in our salty New England winters). I'd guess it to be from the 1990s. He was rightly proud of it.

I suspect that Toyota will keep making Camrys and Avalons and that they will continue selling for at least the next decade.
 
movdqa said:
I saw a guy washing his RX-7 GS two days ago. It was in pristine shape (hard to do in our salty New England winters). I'd guess it to be from the 1990s. He was rightly proud of it.

I suspect that Toyota will keep making Camrys and Avalons and that they will continue selling for at least the next decade.
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Had an '83 RX-7, rust-free. Smoothest acceleration ever IMHO, Wankel
 
tonylg said:
"at its finest" :-D

They were well damped, had wonderful feedback from the front end and sounded glorious when vtec kick in yo, but were prone to snap oversteer at the limit which was worse than an early MR2 or old school 911. If you want precision handling at it's finest, go drive a Cayman.
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Cayman/Boxster do snap oversteer too. Anything with low polar moment of inertia will do that. C5 Z06 is another one.

Cars with their mass more towards the center of the car will grip and grip until they let go, then they spin like tops (as opposed to sliding).
 
Rosstour said:
Cayman/Boxster do snap oversteer too. Anything with low polar moment of inertia will do that. C5 Z06 is another one.

Cars with their mass more towards the center of the car will grip and grip until they let go, then they spin like tops (as opposed to sliding).
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I've driven a few different generations of Cayman on the track, in both stock and modified configurations, and they are about as benign at and beyond the limit as any car I've driven. Besides being able to feel the car starting to lose rear end grip through the seat and through the steering, the suspension control allows easy recovery.

On the other hand, my C6 works best when set up with just a whiff of understeer, and the toe and camber changes you get when the rear end unloads as it starts to slide make it a handful. Let off the throttle, weight transfers forward, and you spin. Stay on the throttle a bit too much, the outside tire loses traction, the transverse spring affects the inside tire, and you spin.

The most evil car I've ever driven was a first gen supercharged MR2 owned by an exceptionally good driver. He would be the equivalent of a 6.0 tennis player and set his suspension balance to have just a bit of oversteer creeping up to the limit. I drove it once, at a wet track day, and it felt so spooky I pitted after one lap and never drove it again. It felt like if I even had an impure thought, it would snap spin on me.
 
One problem, IMO, is that vehicles in America have gotten bigger and taller. People don't drive smaller trucks, they drive big monstrosities (like some pictured much earlier in this thread) and hulking SUV's. When I drove my little Prelude, people almost ran over me, because they didn't even see me. Thank god it was red, or even more people wouldn't have noticed.

So, while I really like little coupes and sports cars...

- I like being able to fit my bike in the car without a rack or something.
- I can fit a bunch of equipment: ball hopper, racquet bag, cooler, whatever or my musical instruments and assorted accessories if I'm going to a rehearsal or gig - all of it no problem.
- I don't like being below everyone's line of sight.
- Crawling down into my Preludes (especially when the driver's door was jammed) was fine when I was in my 20's, less so a decade plus later...

Sedans are for the most part generic and boring - though there are exceptions. I've never owned one, only considered a few. I'd much rather get a wagon (almost did) or a smaller SUV - which I did.

If I had 2 vehicles, I wouldn't mind sporty little thing.

That 2000GT is gorgeous.
 
Crazy Finn said:
One problem, IMO, is that vehicles in America have gotten bigger and taller. People don't drive smaller trucks, they drive big monstrosities (like some pictured much earlier in this thread) and hulking SUV's. When I drove my little Prelude, people almost ran over me, because they didn't even see me. Thank god it was red, or even more people wouldn't have noticed.

So, while I really like little coupes and sports cars...

- I like being able to fit my bike in the car without a rack or something.
- I can fit a bunch of equipment: ball hopper, racquet bag, cooler, whatever or my musical instruments and assorted accessories if I'm going to a rehearsal or gig - all of it no problem.
- I don't like being below everyone's line of sight.
- Crawling down into my Preludes (especially when the driver's door was jammed) was fine when I was in my 20's, less so a decade plus later...

Sedans are for the most part generic and boring - though there are exceptions. I've never owned one, only considered a few. I'd much rather get a wagon (almost did) or a smaller SUV - which I did.

If I had 2 vehicles, I wouldn't mind sporty little thing.

That 2000GT is gorgeous.
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I feel quite comfortable in my Camry but that's partially due to driving style. In general, I try to avoid being around larger vehicles. Also one reason I like my old 2000 Avalon. It was an old tank. I just still prefer cars - but I don't like small cars.
 
tonylg said:
Only if you do something really dumb. Some cars are just waiting for a chance to kill you, the Cayman taps you on shoulder 2 or 3 times to ask if you're sure before finally letting go.
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My 981 also says hello politely every morning




Regularly take her for track days. Even taking it to the limit I can always feel when she is about to let go in the rear and I find her balance back so damn well. Never have had any over steering issues even when going a bit overboard. Like you said, you have to be super dumb to not be able to catch back.

I recently drove a 718 GTS too and absolutely the exact same feeling with that car. I don't think I have ever had such an experience with any other mid engine.
 
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