Are you really not supposed to add power to your volleys?

Z

Zachol82

Professional
Being a serve and volleyer my entire tennis career, I would say that I am pretty comfortable with playing at the net. With that being said, I have heard and have read a lot of people saying that volleying is pretty much just a block. Among many volleying tips that I've heard, I strongly disagree with one: "when you volley, you're only putting your racquet out there so that it meets with the ball, you're not supposed to add more power to the ball but simply deflect it back."

Personally, I have to add more power to the ball when I rally, just simply deflecting it back is definitely not enough. Without adding more power, I feel that I'm just tapping the ball back and giving my opponent an opportunity to approach the net as well.

Now, to me, "adding power" doesn't necessarily mean adding more pace or more depth. I can add power to my dropshot, thus imparting more spin on the ball for a more effective dropshot. I guess the correct term I should be using is adding more racquet-head speed.

So do you guys just put your racquet out there and block/deflect shots back when you volley? Or do you actually attempt to add more to your volleys than just simply blocking the ball back?
 
I think you are missing a major component of this which is the footwork portion and how you should step into your volleys and add power with your feet instead of swinging (however, I do agree there is somewhat of a forward swing to contact just not a backswing). Most trained players will drive from the same side they are hitting from and possibly cross step with the other foot.
 
Being a fellow former S&Ver / current semi-S&Ver, they both have their places. Obviously, a lot of times you can just set the racquet and put oomph (for lack of the correct term) with your forward motion. This is seen on first volleys in a S&V. If you're stationary, I would block angles and swing on deep volleys.

Is this what you were looking for?
 
As usual, depends.
I can honestly say those guys are right if you're reflex blocking a medium height volley off a fast moving shot. "Sticking" out your racket is enough to hit a winner or forcing volley, if you hit the open court.
However, there are low volleys, half volleys, and sitter volleys (those chest high up to overheads), which you add tons of stiffening of your body, and some forward body movement, along with a forward downward backspin swing.
I probably add the most forward movement of the body for 1/2 volleys, since it's almost last resort and most players tend to mishit this volley short. I say, move forwards, use some arm but stiffen the body, and hit it like you mean to end the point with that shot. More often than not, it'll just be a normal depth normal pace volley.
Now, when facing a thigh to shin height volley off a FAST mover, you gotta take some pace off the ball, so more slicing motion is the call, but not forward body or too much stiffenning of the body.
Different volleys for different situation, kinda like....you don't hit your fastest serve EVERY time, you don't need to crush your groundies EVERY time.
 
Yes, you're all right. I've forgot to specify, but I did mean to imply, that footwork, torso rotation and putting your body into your volley is what I do to add more power into my volleys.

I guess what I'm aiming at here are players that stands at the net and just sticks out their racquet OR players that just wait for the ball to come and hit their racquet. Not sure if I am describing this clearly enough but I definitely disagree with these approaches.
 
Sure, there's this thread floating around a month ago on how to volley a powerful winner off a head high floater.
I never swing, I just use normal volley technique, move forwards, take it away from my body (longer leverage), and stroke thru the ball slightly flatter than a normal volley, and nobody can return it if they need to move more than a couple of inches from where they are standing. Normal takeback, but much more forward down and outward slicing stroke.
That was my meaning when I responded to ClintT's first volleying vid. Here he is, a strong 6.0 player, trying to make a main draw, pattycaking shoulder high volleys BACK to the feeder. What can you learn from that? Besides it makes you do that in a match!
 
On some volleys you definitely want to swing, or your chance of winning the point increases if you swing. Many of the pros today use a swinging volley which is essentially a normal forehand or backhand swing on the ball before it hits the ground. Only attempt this if you are in balance and have practiced this kind of shot.

In other cases, it is best to slightly swing the volley to put more punch into the ball. This motion is different from a normal forehand or backhand in that the racket should face the target almost the whole way through the short swing. There was a video posted here by a Wimbledon doubles champion on this very technique. He was pointing out that it is a myth that you should never swing at a volley and he demonstrated how he would swing through volleys to put more pace on the ball.
 
I think it's a little more complicated than..."just a block"....
For sure, the swinging volley, as defined by modern tennis, with topspin, is more than a block.
But the regular underspin volleys, short punch stroke, conti gripped, come all sorts of different ways.
A putaway drive volley, from waist to overhead heights, get lots of extra foreward movement, longer faster swing, and more tightening of the body.
A blocking volley, like in doubles when you're netman, and the opposition blasts a groundie at you, IS a pure block most of the time. But sometimes, knowing it's a low ball you have to lift over the net, you take some pace off the volley with a sidespin component. Less than a block.
When the ball gets dinked to your feet, you need legs, body, and lots of arm to add pace and secure direction in your reply, not a block.
To me, a "block" is only that volley that you REFLEX back, because you didn't have time or inclination to move in some direction to get a better angle on the ball.
Happens to me all the time, when I S/V and the ball comes hard directly at me, I reflex block it either deep back to returner or try a short angle shot to take the returner off the sidelines.
And of course, the famous lob volley, which is huge in doubles play, when the opponent's hit down and press forwards. That is also not a block.
 
Not adding power is a myth. Not swinging is a myth too.

but a lot of it depends on how fast/high/powerful the shot is coming at you and your position to the ball and the net.
 
You want to win the point.

If blocking is enough (the incoming ball is fast, your racket is heavy, you are close to the net and can step in, etc.), you block for more control. If not, you have to punch for more power.

You have no options, really. Your job is to prevent your opponent from reaching the ball, not to please your coach with a textbook volley.
 
Move forward on low balls if you can meet it before it dips below the
level of the net. Hit it in front of your body much more than on groundstrokes.
Unlike groundstrokes, don't turn your upper torso for torque. Keep the stroke
as simple as possible so that you can handle balls of all speeds.
 
Zachol82 said:
Yes, you're all right. I've forgot to specify, but I did mean to imply, that footwork, torso rotation and putting your body into your volley is what I do to add more power into my volleys.

I guess what I'm aiming at here are players that stands at the net and just sticks out their racquet OR players that just wait for the ball to come and hit their racquet. Not sure if I am describing this clearly enough but I definitely disagree with these approaches.
Click to expand...

you are correct in your first paragraph.(or at least i agree :) LOL)
however when teaching beginners who usually tend to swing too much on a standard volley thats when you hear about "just stick your racquet out"
like most "tips" they are only just "so" usefull
 
WildVolley said:
On some volleys you definitely want to swing, or your chance of winning the point increases if you swing. Many of the pros today use a swinging volley which is essentially a normal forehand or backhand swing on the ball before it hits the ground. Only attempt this if you are in balance and have practiced this kind of shot.

In other cases, it is best to slightly swing the volley to put more punch into the ball. This motion is different from a normal forehand or backhand in that the racket should face the target almost the whole way through the short swing. There was a video posted here by a Wimbledon doubles champion on this very technique. He was pointing out that it is a myth that you should never swing at a volley and he demonstrated how he would swing through volleys to put more pace on the ball.
Click to expand...

Swing on the volley? Er, no.
 
Guys, it depends on what you mean by swing. If you mean the racquet moves forward slightly through contact, then yes, there is a swing. If you mean a full swing on a fast incoming ball, then no, don't swing.

On shots that give you enough time, the racquet moves through the ball and adds a little power. When someone is blasting it at you, you may have to use a neutral block where the racquet pretty much just meets the ball.
 
usta2050 said:
Not adding power is a myth. Not swinging is a myth too.

but a lot of it depends on how fast/high/powerful the shot is coming at you and your position to the ball and the net.
Click to expand...

Exacto, for instance, if the ball is coming at low speed you have to do a little more than just blocking, otherwise your shot could not be too efective.
 
If the ball's coming at you fast, and you have the skill to execute a swinging volley, then do it. Some beginner's are hopeless at the net, and do much better if they simply block back the ball. Also, with some opponents you don't need to put much on it. You get a good enough angle from up close to simply angle it away and they're too slow to get to it. But in the best matches you need swinging volleys, because you can do it, and you need to do it to get the shot past your opponent.
 
i like to call it a "punch". that is my standard volley.
otherwise a block, maybe.... or "deaden" the frame
for a drop volley type shot.

very rarely but occasionally do i use a true (IMO) swinging volley such as Serena might.
 
..and you need to subtract power on hard fast low incoming balls, so you add a sidespin component to your volley to take away unnecessary ball speed from your low volleys. Some call it "controlling the depth" of your volleys.
 
On hard shots, all you can do is block, but normally i'll take a good followthrough through every ball. The key is to add most of the power with the legs, maintain the locked wrist, and hitting everything out in front. Sometimes on slow shots i might cheat a bit and take a small backswing.

I think of volleying as boxing. When your opponent is hitting hard at you, you block. Normal volleys would be like jabs, no backswing and punch through, short and quick. When you get a easy ball, load up and take a bigger cut (not too big though), for a finish.
 
Even though a full "swinging volley" is a shot where the ball is struck before it bounces, it doesn't have much in common with a more typical, classic volley with its relatively compact motion. I prefer to think of a swinging volley as a stroke, despite its name-tag.

I agree with some of our pals here that there are two types of more classic volleys. A defensive reaction volley doesn't really have any power, etc. "added" to it because the ball comes too quickly for a full setup and execution. That's more a shot where the hitter fights the ball off with quick hands and not much else.

A full volley motion includes enough footwork to position the hitter for a deliberate forward weight transfer through the shot. Ideally, this is a side-step or diagonal step onto the front foot to create much of the forward motion to drive the racquet though the ball. A little core rotation and arm motion add to the forward move of the racquet through the ball and help to energize the shot and "put some authority" on it. This "move" on the ball requires a split-second of action that isn't available on that reaction volley.

The more assertive volley is the one that is typically a more offensive shot, but I probably wouldn't encourage players to worry so much about "adding power to the ball" when they hit that style of shot. It's usually more a matter of energizing the shot with deliberate footwork compared with only fighting off a hot shot with a quick move. The central idea with a reaction volley is to shovel the ball back over the net, since there's no time to do any more with it. Sorry if I'm mastering the obvious again...
 
Longer follow through, esp. on high balls, that you hit flat. Med high: slice with open face, aggressive feet, forward movement, low balls: open face, touch shot, still with foward movement, and quick feet: reflex shots: still have to move forward and be aggressive. Volley is about aggression, and forward movement. Go dtl on first volley and approach, and only cc when the opp. mass is gone sideways or you have a putaway chance. 15% less time to pass dtl, and it takes you 15% more time to cover a dtl passing shot!
 
I've always gone by Kiteboard's assesment.
CC volley only for the putaway, otherwise DTL volley for the forcing shot when you have no clear putaway volley.
 
The best volleyer at my club just blocks the ball back. He does the textbook low approach down the line then just hits a very soft volley to the service line T. It does not bounce very much and there is no way a player will be able to get that ball unless he gets a very quick jump on it. And if the opponent starts guessing and moves toward the spot, he just puts it behind him.

Good volleys does not require pace. Placement is much more important.
 
While I'll agree placement is the most important feature of a volley, pace is needed against faster running opponents, those fitter and quicker.
Pace as in 100mph volleys might not be needed, but volleys need some pace to beat the track kids we now face coming out of college.
Now if you're saying this guy can place his volleys on any 2 square foot on the court, then he does not need pace at all.
 
swinging at volleys

Don't use a swing on a volley that involves any *closing* of the racket face - possibly with the exception of the topspin swing volley. Swinging (in various manners) with an *open* racket face is often a very *good* thing to do - imo.

Kevin
 
fuzz nation said:
I'd appreciate a little expansion of this when you've got a minute - just not sure who has time for what at the net or the baseline, but it's interesting. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Say you volley cc. The baseliner runs it down and hits a pass dtl. You now have to move 15% more ground, and he has 15% less ground, to pass you with, and it takes 15% less time for a dtl pass to get by you, due to the smaller distance, that a dtl ball has to travel to go by you, and now, you have to motor over, a lot more ground to reach the pass, than if you hit your volley dtl, and were there covering a dtl pass, or a cc pass, that has to travel 15% more ground to get by you.
 
I was taught to usually approach DTL. The conventional wisdom and
teaching was to go DTL. As a junior, I initally sort of blindly followed this
approach (pun intended) and it made my game too predictable. I later
learned to mix it up with cross court, topspin/slice, dropshots, loopy
topspin approaches, and also occasionally sneaking in for a swinging
volley.
 
Of course, NOBODY said to hit EVERY approach shot DTL.
You hit DTL until your opponent proves he can beat you, THEN you try the various options, knowing the DTL approach is the staple basic approach.
You don't hit every serve the same spot, why hit every approach the same spot?
 
When there's a large opening, you can hit cc approach or cc volleys, but it better be at least 15% more open than the dtl shot! I love to volley, and didn't start learning until 24 or so, when Peter Sharkey said, "He's big, he's fast, why doesn't he have a big first serve and a volley?" Beat him 4 and 4 on a 98 degree day at the rose gardens, in singles, and he dropped dead of a heart attack. There's a sign there commemorating his life. So I killed Sharkey.
 
Question becomes, did he die happy?
Anyone who chooses to play against a young, fast, big, powerful player in 98 degree heat is looking for his last hurrah. Win or lose, he found it.
 
Torres said:
Swing on the volley? Er, no.
Click to expand...

Er, Yes!:)

I advise you to spend some time watching the professionals volley. A short swing is a standard volley technique used by the world's best players. The claim that you shouldn't swing is a myth.

I'll admit that beginners who only block volleys are better than those who are convinced they need to vigorously chop down on the ball. However, in many cases a swing is necessary to guide the ball into the right position as well as stabilize the ball by putting spin (usually underspin) on it.
 
It's not called a swing.
It's called a drive volley. Body moving forwards, the whole K chain tensed.
A swing volley is hit with topspin, like today's game.
 
LeeD said:
It's not called a swing.
It's called a drive volley. Body moving forwards, the whole K chain tensed.
A swing volley is hit with topspin, like today's game.
Click to expand...

OK. I'm not here to argue semantics. Let's just agree that a drive volley actually involves a short swing.

I agree with you that a "swing" volley is really a different animal.
 
Semantics, you have to separate the traditional underspin volley from the modern topspin volley.
Drive volley is not a swing, it's a strong stroke.
"Swing volley" is a swing, with topspin, and is also a topspin stroke. But it is not a volley stroke. For that, you need underspin and a shorter takeback.
 
LeeD said:
Semantics, you have to separate the traditional underspin volley from the modern topspin volley.
Drive volley is not a swing, it's a strong stroke.
"Swing volley" is a swing, with topspin, and is also a topspin stroke. But it is not a volley stroke. For that, you need underspin and a shorter takeback.
Click to expand...

Again, we are arguing semantics but probably on the same page. To me, a swing and a stroke are the same thing and differ from a block.

The original question was about adding power to volleys. It is traditionally done by moving forward into the ball and using a "strong stroke" which is a shortened swing that tends to guide the ball. The racket isn't pulled butt cap first toward the ball in the manner of a modern groundstroke, but instead, the racket tends to face the ball throughout the stroke and usually underspin is added to stabilize the ball and keep it low.
 
Sometimes I think that semantics and effective communication actually are much of the issue with one topic or another.

I personally associate a "swing" as more of a full monty at the ball including a back-swing and a follow-through. While I think that a good, deliberate volley includes an assertive move on the ball, I try not to refer to it as a swing - or at least I try to point out the difference between a full ground stroke and the more compact, abbreviated action of a traditional volley.

One of the verbal cues I often use with my kids when we're working on volleys is to "bring your footwork to the net, but leave your swing at the baseline". That's usually because they need to get a handle on the idea of moving the racquet and their arm as more of a single unit without a release of the racquet through contact. I'm usually trying to encourage them to power their volleys with their footwork.

LeeD and WildVolley; if I've got the gist of what you guys are saying, I think that both of you guys are right.
 
Zachol82 said:
Being a serve and volleyer my entire tennis career, I would say that I am pretty comfortable with playing at the net. With that being said, I have heard and have read a lot of people saying that volleying is pretty much just a block. Among many volleying tips that I've heard, I strongly disagree with one: "when you volley, you're only putting your racquet out there so that it meets with the ball, you're not supposed to add more power to the ball but simply deflect it back."

Personally, I have to add more power to the ball when I rally, just simply deflecting it back is definitely not enough. Without adding more power, I feel that I'm just tapping the ball back and giving my opponent an opportunity to approach the net as well.

Now, to me, "adding power" doesn't necessarily mean adding more pace or more depth. I can add power to my dropshot, thus imparting more spin on the ball for a more effective dropshot. I guess the correct term I should be using is adding more racquet-head speed.

So do you guys just put your racquet out there and block/deflect shots back when you volley? Or do you actually attempt to add more to your volleys than just simply blocking the ball back?
Click to expand...

Depends on the volley. A block volley where one has to take off pace no. A drop volley not really. A volley off a low ball not so much either. A put-away volley of a soft ball above the net then yes.

Contact is still in front on these but I see a lot of racquet head speed and follow through on these volleys from the pros. On the backhand side I see the racquet head taken back or at least laid back quite a bit and then the forearm supinate to accelerate the racquet head and pop into the ball.

One guy I play with does this extremely well. I watched closely b/c I was seeing too many of my bh volleys that should've ended the point come back to me b/c they were too soft. He really supinates his forearm into the ball (doesn't hurt that he has massive arms!), but then I noticed pros were doing this as well on put-away bh volleys.
 
Yeah, I hold conti grip with a slight twist towards eFOREhand, so normal volleys, I use a longer than forehand volley stroke with lots of underspin, similar to what the pros use. But if I want to knock off a quick winner off a chest high or higher ball, I supinate to hit a FLAT volley, aimed just deeper than service line, down and hard up the middle normally.
Forehand side, I seldom if ever pronate to flatten out the shot, since my grip favors that side already.
 
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