Arm pains - advice please!

[GaryB]

Hey,

I've just started to experience some nasty pains in my elbow/forearm/wrist.
First thing I'm doing is taking a break from tennis, at least for a few days.
I've been using some different co-polys in my 18x20 Blades for the last six months or so and no problems, until now that is.
I always string around 50-52lbs max and am currently using Cyclone Tour and Cyber Blue - both "softer" polys I would have thought.
Obviously, I am going to look at changing strings and was wondering what would be best - hybrid set-up with poly/multi or full multi in order to gain some relief?

Thanks in advance

 

[Lukhas]

A few days isn't nearly enough. Consult a doctor, check the health and fitness section of TW.

 

[ringwraith]

Yep take a week or so off if you are young enough (30 or less). If older, you should take longer off.

The blade isn't really a soft racquet. I would suggest moving away from full poly to a softer hybrid (if your game relies heavily on spin then doing away with poly altogether is hard). If you play flatter, you can try full bed of multi or better yet full gut.

 

[Irvin]

18x20 + poly = arm + wrist + elbow pain. It's a wonder your shoulder does not hurt. Put some gut in your racket until the pain goes away it cheaper than a doctor visit.

 

[Shroud]

Agree with Irvin.

And try some lower tensions. FWIW I went down in the 20s and even lower. Its great for the arm.

 

[SpinToWin]

What gauge of strings are you using? Dense 18x20 string patterns need thin strings in order to open up the stringbed a bit and make it less "board-like".
For now, full gut may be advisable until your arm feels better. In the long run, a gut hybrid is likely to solve your problem.

 

[GaryB]

What gauge of strings are you using? Dense 18x20 string patterns need thin strings in order to open up the stringbed a bit and make it less "board-like".
For now, full gut may be advisable until your arm feels better. In the long run, a gut hybrid is likely to solve your problem.

I'm using 17g strings, and have used thinner depending on string. Was thinking about using full gut, but apart from the cost, the problem is I live in Ireland where it rains practically all the time, so that's not really practical I'd imagine.

Would a good multi have the same benefits for me as guy? Something like tecnifibre x1?

 

[EpitomeOfAwesome]

X1 Biphase is a good string but questions remain how long it can give you consistent playability.
Also consider 16x19 pattern racquets and racquets with less stiffness.

 

[GaryB]

I'm using 17g strings, and have used thinner depending on string. Was thinking about using full gut, but apart from the cost, the problem is I live in Ireland where it rains practically all the time, so that's not really practical I'd imagine.

Would a good multi have the same benefits for me as guy? Something like tecnifibre x1?

Gut, not "guy". Sorry

 

[SpinToWin]

I'm using 17g strings, and have used thinner depending on string. Was thinking about using full gut, but apart from the cost, the problem is I live in Ireland where it rains practically all the time, so that's not really practical I'd imagine.

Would a good multi have the same benefits for me as guy? Something like tecnifibre x1?

Yeah a good multi will do the job. Preferably keep the gauge slightly thinner as well (17 and below). Be sure to take a soft multi though, nowadays there are a few multis that play quite stiff due to their construction.

I usually string very thin strings for 18x20 patterns. My go to string job for such patterns is 17L or 18 gauge Kirschbaum Pro Line II. I haven't ever had complaints on comfort and the string lasts long for such a thin gauge. Once you are pain free, you could give it a shot. If that does not work, you should stick to full multi or a soft multi/poly hybrid (or it could be time for a change of racquets if you do not like the way such string jobs play).

 

[Fifth Set]

I'm using 17g strings, and have used thinner depending on string. Was thinking about using full gut, but apart from the cost, the problem is I live in Ireland where it rains practically all the time, so that's not really practical I'd imagine.

Would a good multi have the same benefits for me as guy? Something like tecnifibre x1?

Yes, a good multi helped my arm issues alot and still play well. I went to a 17g. The challenge with many 17g multis is that they do not last very long. My favorite long lasting 17g multis of the many I tried were Prince's Premier Attack (now called Control apparently) and Klip's Venom.

Check out mikeler's amazing multi thread for more info on multis than you can imagine. Ask him questions directly too, as he is an encyclopedia on strings.

Another possibility is that your racquet may be too stiff. Check the stiffness rating and, if the string, physical therapy, stretching, strengthening, etc. don't help, I would seriously consider getting a more flexible racquet.

 

[Bud]

Get this book at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point...1482249&sr=8-2&keywords=trigger+point+therapy

Locate the section that covers the source of your pain and find the place to focus on for the remedy. It is going to be in your shoulder and shoulder blade area.

The problem is more one of technique rather than strings or racquet and it manifests itself in shoulder muscles that stay contracted. That is not to suggest that you do not have good technique, just that the problem is caused by the way you swing the racquet and how your muscles respond to that repetitive action.

This book saved my life. I have passed it on to others on TT and they can confirm, if they see this (mikeler). Best $10 anyone with tennis arm pain can spend.

Trigger point therapy is great for treatment. However, the issue here sounds like a stiff racquet and poly strings. He needs to find the root of the problem not just treat the symptoms.

 

[MambaT]

Hey Bud,

I happen to think that that is exactly what this will do for him... it is the case for me anyway. The cause of the pain is the tense muscle fibers. Is the cause of the tense muscle fibers the strings or racquet? Maybe, or maybe part of it. But this will get rid of the pain and let him determine that.

As I said, for me anyway, it is more about swing than equipment. It may not be that for everyone. Nonetheless, with this, your arm does not need to hurt.

 

[lucky44]

If you do not want to use Gut due to rainy weather and do not like multis,you might consider switching your racket to Pro Kennex or Volkl V1 Classic,Prince Exo3 Tour is another one very good for arm.

 

[henweezy]

+1 on the V1 Classic as their dual shock handle would definitely help with that.
Also stringing polys in the low 30's wouldn't be such a bad thing either. Read up on Chris from TW's blog about stringing low polys, you will not be disappointed. As said above, 18x20 is indeed a very dense pattern (which would make a string bed stiff enough in IMO) and adding a full bed of poly...... lol
Try for the low 30's with poly or put a soft syn/multi in the crosses or vice versa. Hope all gets better.

 

[GaryB]

Thanks everyone for your input.
Feeling a bit less sore/stiff today after not playing for 24 hours.
Will leave it at least 7 days before picking up a racket again and have a two week holiday coming up which will be tennis free. Also, I have found some stretching exercises which seem to be helping a bit.
I had a look at Mikelers excellent multi forum and have just ordered some Signum Pro Micronite & Mantis Comfort as a result.
Will try these full-bed to begin with and maybe as a hybrid if all goes well.
Failing that, I'll change rackets to something softer like an Exo3 Tour or something.

 

[MambaT]

Signum Pro Microfibre??

 

[GaryB]

Signum Pro Microfibre??

Micronite 1.27

 

[GlenK]

Had some good success with Mantis Comfort Synthetic for my customers with arm issues. Two guys, one with shoulder and one with wrist issues both believe that they would not be playing right now had they not found MCS.

Tension maintenance is not great but it's ok and kept them playing.

 

[Bigtime]

May also want to add some ice to the sore areas. It may speed up your recovery time by reducing the inflammation.

 

[Gary D]

I'm in my 50's & got tennis elbow last year. It's still in the background. Unless the OP has changed his technique in recent times, it's unlikely to be that.
You mention you'd been using the Polys for the last 6 months, - if you were using something softer previously, go back to it. I may have kicked mine off experimenting with strings.
Learn how to massage the arm, either yourself or a friend. Might be worth a half-hour visit to a Physio for an assessment.

 

[hoodjem]

Hey,

I've just started to experience some nasty pains in my elbow/forearm/wrist.
First thing I'm doing is taking a break from tennis, at least for a few days.
I've been using some different co-polys in my 18x20 Blades for the last six months or so and no problems, until now that is.
I always string around 50-52lbs max and am currently using Cyclone Tour and Cyber Blue - both "softer" polys I would have thought.
Obviously, I am going to look at changing strings and was wondering what would be best - hybrid set-up with poly/multi or full multi in order to gain some relief?

Thanks in advance

Do NOT use full poly!

 

[samarai]

gut poly is your answer.

 

[comeback]

I was using variations of poly and kevlar hybrids but they were giving me hand/wrist/forearm soreness...I recently started using NatGut mains/Ashaway Monogut Pro crosses with much better comfort. (A big THANKS to ChicagoJack for doing extensive research on this setup)

 

[Cervantes]

Elbow Apocalypse

A few years ago I underwent major elbow surgery to repair a detached ligament, a detached tendon, and another tendon torn 50%. Blame a slice backhand where my hand was in front of the racquet. Killer effective, but bad technique.

Get a heavier, arm friendly (shock absorbent) racquet, strung with a good multi. Another issue is grip size..too small and you contract the forearm more, stretching everything. I found that bracing my wrist keeps my forearm loose and pain free. Pronate then stipinate your hand while playing, keeps everything stretched and loose. Learn to live this way.

 

[Arafel]

I have a Blade 18x20 too. I started getting some elbow pain after using a hybrid of Xcel Power 17 gauge in the mains at 55 and RPM Blast 17 in the crosses at 50. Recently switched back to a full bed of Xcel Power 17 (one of the softest multis) and am having no elbow pains, though I started stringing somewhat tighter (58).

 

[GaryB]

Yeah a good multi will do the job. Preferably keep the gauge slightly thinner as well (17 and below). Be sure to take a soft multi though, nowadays there are a few multis that play quite stiff due to their construction.

I usually string very thin strings for 18x20 patterns. My go to string job for such patterns is 17L or 18 gauge Kirschbaum Pro Line II. I haven't ever had complaints on comfort and the string lasts long for such a thin gauge. Once you are pain free, you could give it a shot. If that does not work, you should stick to full multi or a soft multi/poly hybrid (or it could be time for a change of racquets if you do not like the way such string jobs play).

Thanks for your suggestions.
I've ordered some Signum Pro Micronite which I'll have strung before I play again - would you consider that a soft multi?

If that works out I'll try the Pro Line 2 as a hybrid, what would you recommend as a cross string? Bear in mind, I play in rain quite often so gut probably isn't an option.

 

[SpinToWin]

Thanks for your suggestions.
I've ordered some Signum Pro Micronite which I'll have strung before I play again - would you consider that a soft multi?

If that works out I'll try the Pro Line 2 as a hybrid, what would you recommend as a cross string? Bear in mind, I play in rain quite often so gut probably isn't an option.

I have no data on Signum Pro Micronite, but based on what I have read and what I have been told, it is soft.

I would actually use Pro Line II as the crosses string and the multi of your choice as the mains string. You will get better string snapback that way and playability duration should be longer too. Furthermore, the setup will be softer due to the multifilament being in the mains.

In conclusion, the smooth poly in the crosses rather than in the mains (IME) gives… :
-More spin
-More power
-More comfort
-More touch (subjective)
-Improved playability duration.

 

[Stardust]

Thanks for your suggestions.
I've ordered some Signum Pro Micronite which I'll have strung before I play again - would you consider that a soft multi?

If that works out I'll try the Pro Line 2 as a hybrid, what would you recommend as a cross string? Bear in mind, I play in rain quite often so gut probably isn't an option.

I don't know what is your level of play but if you are not 5.0 at least and up, your problem could be complex but not only the strings! Blade 98 is extremely demanding stick and requires brilliant technique.
I remember few years ago my daughter had proposal for sponsorship by Wilson and she liked to play with Blade 98 Pink. The consultant refused to her and suggested and even strongly insisted on Blade Team (104 in the new list).
He told me that the Blade 98 has very high swing weight, heavy feel, small sweetspot and could destroy her hand.

 

[GaryB]

I have no data on Signum Pro Micronite, but based on what I have read and what I have been told, it is soft.

I would actually use Pro Line II as the crosses string and the multi of your choice as the mains string. You will get better string snapback that way and playability duration should be longer too. Furthermore, the setup will be softer due to the multifilament being in the mains.

In conclusion, the smooth poly in the crosses rather than in the mains (IME) gives

 

[mikeler]

Thanks for your suggestions.
I've ordered some Signum Pro Micronite which I'll have strung before I play again - would you consider that a soft multi?

If that works out I'll try the Pro Line 2 as a hybrid, what would you recommend as a cross string? Bear in mind, I play in rain quite often so gut probably isn't an option.

Signum Pro Micronite is soft.

 

[GaryB]

I have no data on Signum Pro Micronite, but based on what I have read and what I have been told, it is soft.

I would actually use Pro Line II as the crosses string and the multi of your choice as the mains string. You will get better string snapback that way and playability duration should be longer too. Furthermore, the setup will be softer due to the multifilament being in the mains.

In conclusion, the smooth poly in the crosses rather than in the mains (IME) gives

 

[GaryB]

Signum Pro Micronite is soft.

Thanks Mikeler.
I chose the string based on your review on your excellent multi forum.
Can you advise what tension would be best for 18x20 blade

 

[SpinToWin]

I don't know what is your level of play but if you are not 5.0 at least and up, your problem could be complex but not only the strings! Blade 98 is extremely demanding stick and requires brilliant technique.
I remember few years ago my daughter had proposal for sponsorship by Wilson and she liked to play with Blade 98 Pink. The consultant refused to her and suggested and even strongly insisted on Blade Team (104 in the new list).
He told me that the Blade 98 has very high swing weight, heavy feel, small sweetspot and could destroy her hand.

I will respectfully disagree. The Blade is a relatively easy racquet to use. It is light, but stable due to its balance. It is much easier to use than a player's racquet (4.0 and above use these quite regularly) as it has a good access to power and is quite forgiving with the right string choice. Also, it is much easier on the arm than a stiff tweener like an APD or PD.

 

[GaryB]

I will respectfully disagree. The Blade is a relatively easy racquet to use. It is light, but stable due to its balance. It is much easier to use than a player's racquet (4.0 and above use these quite regularly) as it has a good access to power and is quite forgiving with the right string choice. Also, it is much easier on the arm than a stiff tweener like an APD or PD.

For me, the blade is a joy to use - power, but not too much and great feel and control. I've tried apd and pure drive etc and found these to be much stiffer and hollow feeling.

 

[fuzz nation]

Good luck with your recovery!...

Switching racquets can be a little traumatic just because it means racking up a lot of mis-hits while adjusting to a different frame. At least that's my perception. If you can live with your Blade just fine, I'd do the string change, but don't stop there. Get looked at by a health care professional if your issues persist and do whatever therapy, exercise, massage, etc. that will help to push your arm's health back in the right direction.

As for the string change, I'd say don't go anywhere near poly or poly hybrids for a good while. Try to live with maybe a full bed of multi or even syn. gut - I've seen that stuff work wonders for a couple of local players who had arm troubles! If you want to avoid further injury, don't be subtle. Significant alarms have already sounded, so take as many steps as you can to get healthy and stay that way.

 

[mikeler]

Thanks Mikeler.
I chose the string based on your review on your excellent multi forum.
Can you advise what tension would be best for 18x20 blade

Mid 50s on a crank would be a good starting point. Low 50s if using a lockout machine.

 

[scotus]

Mid 50s on a crank would be a good starting point. Low 50s if using a lockout machine.

Aren't all crank machines lockout? I suppose you meant constant-pull, rather than lockout...

 

[Stardust]

For me, the blade is a joy to use - power, but not too much and great feel and control. I've tried apd and pure drive etc and found these to be much stiffer and hollow feeling.

haha... joy but painful!

I don’t comment the stiffness of the stick. Blade 98 in stock form is relatively light racquet with high swing weight and eventual improper technique is a reasonable precondition for arm injury. All the pros play with similar sticks with even higher SW but they have proper technique – "butt cap ahead" and soft , relaxed wrist. Strenuous wrist and arm + high SW = arm pain.

If your level of play allows you to play with nylon strings – multi or SG as some advised you to do than you’d better think about some 315 – 330 gr. stick with 305 – 315 SW and more HL.


P.S. Guys, I don't say Blade 98 is not a good stick - on the contrary, it's great! My daughter's coach plays with it. I just shared what I've heard by the Wilson's expert and from other professionals.

 

[The Sandbagger]

Try the volkyl V1

 

[John Z.]

For me, the blade is a joy to use - power, but not too much and great feel and control. I've tried apd and pure drive etc and found these to be much stiffer and hollow feeling.

@GaryB - I have been facing the exact same pbl over the last 1.5y only a bit more severe; elbow issues and shoulder tendon tear, serious stuff. My sticks are blade 93 2013, and for me there is simply nothing out there that give me nearly as much control, precision and touch (and i have tried quite a few racquets). No need to change sticks, just give up poly for good and find yourself a multi setting (strings combo and tension) that suites you game. I personally have a few setup, one of which is full PPC at 45 lbs. The equivalent tension for PPC on the blade 98 18x20 should be around 48 lbs. You will find it hard to control at first, but eventually you will adapt your shots to that setting and all will be fine (likely so). There are a few other high quality control oriented multi that can still generate good spin - find one you like and stick to it! My 2 cents.

Good luck.

 

[GaryB]

@GaryB - I have been facing the exact same pbl over the last 1.5y only a bit more severe; elbow issues and shoulder tendon tear, serious stuff. My sticks are blade 93 2013, and for me there is simply nothing out there that give me nearly as much control, precision and touch (and i have tried quite a few racquets). No need to change sticks, just give up poly for good and find yourself a multi setting (strings combo and tension) that suites you game. I personally have a few setup, one of which is full PPC at 45 lbs. The equivalent tension for PPC on the blade 98 18x20 should be around 48 lbs. You will find it hard to control at first, but eventually you will adapt your shots to that setting and all will be fine (likely so). There are a few other high quality control oriented multi that can still generate good spin - find one you like and stick to it! My 2 cents.



Good luck.

Many thanks for that.
Am trying out a full bed of a soft multi when the pains calm down and hopefully that works out

 

[GaryB]

So, had a gentle hit last night and a bit again today after a weeks rest. The arm seems to be holding up pretty well after the lay-off and stretching/icing etc.
Had my rackets strung with Signum Pro Micronite at 54lbs following the recommendation from Mikelers multi thread.
Was actually pleasantly surprised by the string. It's quite crisp for a multi it seems with good control and decent spin too. Was hitting some good balls with decent depth and pace. Most importantly it was super comfortable.
Once my arm fully heals up I'm planning to use it as a main string in a poly hybrid.
Thanks for everyone's advice regarding how to deal with my injury

 

[mikeler]

So, had a gentle hit last night and a bit again today after a weeks rest. The arm seems to be holding up pretty well after the lay-off and stretching/icing etc.
Had my rackets strung with Signum Pro Micronite at 54lbs following the recommendation from Mikelers multi thread.
Was actually pleasantly surprised by the string. It's quite crisp for a multi it seems with good control and decent spin too. Was hitting some good balls with decent depth and pace. Most importantly it was super comfortable.
Once my arm fully heals up I'm planning to use it as a main string in a poly hybrid.
Thanks for everyone's advice regarding how to deal with my injury

It's one of the softest out there and performs well.

 

[UCSF2012]

I can already tell you that you won't be using multi/poly. The reason is that it's ultra high friction and the string will snap very, very quickly. (poly/multi is fine though) Just take the plunge and go Gut/poly. In the Blade 18x20, it will last a very, very long time. It'll also give you more power, more spin, and improved consistency.

 

[SpinToWin]

I can already tell you that you won't be using multi/poly. The reason is that it's ultra high friction and the string will snap very, very quickly. (poly/multi is fine though) Just take the plunge and go Gut/poly. In the Blade 18x20, it will last a very, very long time. It'll also give you more power, more spin, and improved consistency.

you couldn't be more wrong if you tried...

Multi in the mains and poly in the crosses has low friction. If you use a thick gauge of multi it lasts long enough and there is a boost in playability. If you are using smooth poly strings, the boost in string movement gives very good spin.

Poly in the mains and multi in the crosses has high friction, so you'll have less spin.


I agree with your account on gut/poly though.

 

[Muppet]

I think scrolling and clicking in this message board is keeping my forearm aggravated. If so, this sucks. What will I do with my days, until my arm comes back and I can play again? It's tough because there's just a little pain left when I flex my wrist back. So far it's been four weeks since I've started having soreness and three of those weeks off.

 

[SpinToWin]

I think scrolling and clicking in this message board is keeping my forearm aggravated. If so, this sucks. What will I do with my days, until my arm comes back and I can play again? It's tough because there's just a little pain left when I flex my wrist back. So far it's been four weeks since I've started having soreness and three weeks off.

time to go to a physiotherapist I'd say :?

 

[UCSF2012]

you couldn't be more wrong if you tried...

Multi in the mains and poly in the crosses has low friction. If you use a thick gauge of multi it lasts long enough and there is a boost in playability. If you are using smooth poly strings, the boost in string movement gives very good spin.

Poly in the mains and multi in the crosses has high friction, so you'll have less spin.


I agree with your account on gut/poly though.

Gamma Professional 16 Mains, BHBR 16 crosses. String life of 2.5 hours.

Pacific ToughGut 16 Mains, BHBR 16 crosses. 8 Months and it hasn't broken yet.


Personally, I can generate the same amount of spin from gut/poly as full multi. It's more technique than anything else. I just like the ultra long life of gut/poly.

 

[deco0028]

I get elbow pain (mostly medial(inner), but have had it in the past on the lateral(outer) side. 1HBH hitter. I always get it without fail with 18 x 20 racquets, even with gut. I sometimes experience it with open string patterns, but only if I have been playing a lot more than I am used to. Just my observation. I personally now stay away from dense string patterns.