As a realistic Nadal fan....

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Thinker_145

Rookie
There was a time I really thought he could win 17 grand slams. While the ship hasn't completely sailed but its increasingly becoming a very unrealistic target.

So now as a huge Nadal fan I would be happy and satisfied with his career if he wins one more Grand Slam because then he would be the undisputed second most successful player of all time. It would be awesome if he can win one more AO but again its much more difficult now. Any GS will have to do.
 
MichaelNadal said:
I just mean that tournament was the turning point. He never was the same player after the back injury.
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It affected him mentally as well, only only physically. He really wanted to win that title, it would give him 2 CGSs and put him much closer to Federer in the Open era GOAT debate.

But, credits to Stan, he was blowing him off the court even before Nadal injured himself.
 
Martin J said:
It affected him mentally as well, only only physically. He really wanted to win that title, it would give him 2 CGSs and put him much closer to Federer in the Open era GOAT debate.

But, credits to Stan, he was blowing him off the court even before Nadal injured himself.
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Yep, can't remember seeing Nadal so bothered/affected after a loss since Wimby 07. He was talking about it for months.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Yep, can't remember seeing Nadal so bothered/affected after a loss since Wimby 07. He was talking about it for months.
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That's because Nadal did some of the best acting of his career in that match and it still didn't work. He realized the gig might finally be up.
 
It was a tough loss indeed but given that:
1. Stan's last few losses to Rafa were very close sets when Stan actually had chances but mentally folded in the big points. Bottom line Stan was due to beat Rafa.
2. Rafa's blister was so bad that he friggin' deserves a medal of courage just to have taken down Nishikori, Dimitrov, & Federer.
3. He beat his alleged nemesis in the very next slam final to get to 14.

I don't think the loss devastated him. Devastating the most mentally tough male player ever would not be easily achieved. Besides, although I can't supply a source atm, didn't Rafa tweak his lower back during the pre-match warmup? That's what I heard.

Trust me I was upset at the result and it's pretty safe to say most people expected Rafa to win that, but I think Rafa's outward and granted utter disappointment right after the match represented everything-the loss, playing with the blister, the inopportune time of the back injury, etc.
He obviously bounced back and won the French despite his most mediocre clay season ever...
 
welcome2petrkordaland said:
It was a tough loss indeed but given that:
1. Stan's last few losses to Rafa were very close sets when Stan actually had chances but mentally folded in the big points. Bottom line Stan was due to beat Rafa.
2. Rafa's blister was so bad that he friggin' deserves a medal of courage just to have taken down Nishikori, Dimitrov, & Federer.
3. He beat his alleged nemesis in the very next slam final to get to 14.

I don't think the loss devastated him. Devastating the most mentally tough male player ever would not be easily achieved. Besides, although I can't supply a source atm, didn't Rafa tweak his lower back during the pre-match warmup? That's what I heard.

Trust me I was upset at the result and it's pretty safe to say most people expected Rafa to win that, but I think Rafa's outward and granted utter disappointment right after the match represented everything-the loss, playing with the blister, the inopportune time of the back injury, etc.
He obviously bounced back and won the French despite his most mediocre clay season ever...
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Did he still have the blister in the final? The crowd reaction really shook him up.
 
If I were a Nadal fan I would take heart. He played very well in the first set today. His fitness, match toughness and confidence are not yet where they need to be. But my impression from the first set, in particular, was that he can and will play better tennis in 2015.

Djokovic was very sharp today and definitely had the edge in the mental battle. And why wouldn't he? He's at his physical peak and riding a long winning streak. The matches between these guys have always come down to who has the mental advantage on the day. It's natural for Djokovic to have that advantage now. But remember the confidence and superior game Djoker showed in 2011. Then, old man Fed broke that streak at Roland Garros. The great ones can rise and beat anyone on the day, when they are feeling it. Rafa will definitely still have his days when he steps on the court and knows that he can win against anyone, even Djoker.

And even physically, I thought Rafa looked pretty good for his age. At the end of the first set he hit a forehand winner that was about 90mph and had 3500+ rpms of topspin on it. That means his racquet head speed (tip) was about 95-97 mph! That is ****ing insane! It's as fast as some pros swing on their serves. Based on that shot, I think his forehand RHS is still the fastest in the world.

But he's always had a problem with keeping that forehand deep at times, and today, particularly as the match wore on, was one of those days. He will get better as the season goes on. Never count the great ones out. As long as he's healthy he can win any tournament he enters. (And I'm a Federer fan.)
 
Sabratha said:
He was worn out from all the exhibitions/tournaments he played before the AO.
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But if he didnt play them he would be rusty,no?He's either injured,sick,rusty or he's overplayed.No one believes this anymore.He scraped by Ferrer yeterday and Ferrer had a blister on his toe the size of an egg but i dont hear about that.
 
I honestly still it's still possible for him to get to 18. Just 4 more years of winning the FO. I obviously would prefer it not happen being a Fed fan but it can.
 
Yes, Nadal's blister was still there for final vs. Wawa. You must not have seen it from the 4th rd on. Huge and right in the middle of his left hand. Absolutely no excuses or sour grapes here from me but very very few ATP players would continue to play with that type of blister.
 
welcome2petrkordaland said:
Yes, Nadal's blister was still there for final vs. Wawa. You must not have seen it from the 4th rd on. Huge and right in the middle of his left hand. Absolutely no excuses or sour grapes here from me but very very few ATP players would continue to play with that type of blister.
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you mean the little one that was about 10mm wide max?Blisters dont last log mate,once they bust it's no big deal.
 
corners said:
If I were a Nadal fan I would take heart. He played very well in the first set today. His fitness, match toughness and confidence are not yet where they need to be. But my impression from the first set, in particular, was that he can and will play better tennis in 2015.

Djokovic was very sharp today and definitely had the edge in the mental battle. And why wouldn't he? He's at his physical peak and riding a long winning streak. The matches between these guys have always come down to who has the mental advantage on the day. It's natural for Djokovic to have that advantage now. But remember the confidence and superior game Djoker showed in 2011. Then, old man Fed broke that streak at Roland Garros. The great ones can rise and beat anyone on the day, when they are feeling it. Rafa will definitely still have his days when he steps on the court and knows that he can win against anyone, even Djoker.

And even physically, I thought Rafa looked pretty good for his age. At the end of the first set he hit a forehand winner that was about 90mph and had 3500+ rpms of topspin on it. That means his racquet head speed (tip) was about 95-97 mph! That is ****ing insane! It's as fast as some pros swing on their serves. Based on that shot, I think his forehand RHS is still the fastest in the world.

But he's always had a problem with keeping that forehand deep at times, and today, particularly as the match wore on, was one of those days. He will get better as the season goes on. Never count the great ones out. As long as he's healthy he can win any tournament he enters. (And I'm a Federer fan.)
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I actually agree with MN that Rafa's constant underrating of himself, once one of his greatest strengths as it forced him to not underrate opponents (something Fed has done a fair bit IMO), may be his greatest achilles heel now that his best is very obviously behind him. Federer constantly keeps telling himself and others that he can still play very good tennis and that he can beat the best of the best when he has a good day and he has proved it emphatically on several occasions. The key word is belief and the scary thing to me is that it seems like Nadal is losing his belief.

There is a saying that there is no smoke without fire and Nadal saying that he has to play his best to win may be more true than ever and may lead to him losing hope in a match. It's a big difference when you have large stretches of poor play, which comes with age, and you tell yourself that you still can play good tennis and you believe in that possibility, rather than telling yourself that you have to play your best tennis to win. The latter can become a burden rather than a motivation like the prior IMO.
 
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welcome2petrkordaland said:
Yes, Nadal's blister was still there for final vs. Wawa. You must not have seen it from the 4th rd on. Huge and right in the middle of his left hand. Absolutely no excuses or sour grapes here from me but very very few ATP players would continue to play with that type of blister.
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I'm not questioning Nadal's toughness, nor the blister, but I do get a little tired of the implications that he's tougher than every other player. There are quite a few ATP players who would play through that blister in the later rounds of a major. In fact, I'd say there are very few who wouldn't.
 
SpinToWin said:
I actually agree with MN that Rafa's constant underrating of himself, once one of his greatest strengths as it forced him to not underrate opponents (something Fed has done a fair bit IMO), may be his greatest achilles heel now that his best is very obviously behind me. Federer constantly keeps telling himself and others that he can still play very good tennis and that he can beat the best of the best when he has a good day and he has proved it emphatically on several occasions. The key word is belief and the scary thing to me is that it seems like Nadal is losing his belief.

There is a saying that there is no smoke without fire and Nadal saying that he has to play his best to win may be more true than ever and may lead to him losing hope in a match. It's a big difference when you have large stretches of poor play, which comes with age, and you tell yourself that you still can play good tennis and you believe in that possibility, rather than telling yourself that you have to play your best tennis to win. The latter can become a burden rather than a motivation like the prior IMO.
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Precisely.
 
Realistic Nadal fan? That is an oxymoron :).

Even with 15 majors, there can still be arguments for Sampras.

For example 286 weeks and 5 WTF titles is pretty huge deal.

Not to mention his 6 consecutive years ending nr.1. I think that is one of the greatest records in tennis.

That means you had to end on to for 6 straight seasons. That is quite a feat.
 
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As long as Djokovic remains in his current form - even if Nadal improves (which he has) - I doubt Nadal will win anything Djokovic is participating in, unless Federer does him a favour by taking Djokovic out.

I really can't see Nadal winning Roland Garros. But God, I hope I'm wrong. I really do.
 
Levi_Ackerman said:
As long as Djokovic remains in his current form - even if Nadal improves (which he has) - I doubt Nadal will win anything Djokovic is participating in, unless Federer does him a favour by taking Djokovic out.

I really can't see Nadal winning Roland Garros. But God, I hope I'm wrong. I really do.
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Federer would have to go into the 'Avatar State' to beat Djokovic on clay at this point.

2011 is cause for hope I suppose.:)

His problem on clay now is that he struggles mightily to mount any offense against good movers unless he's locked in with his groundstrokes.

On other surfaces, he can get some cheap points from his serve and generate some offense with his net play. Those things are much tougher on clay.
 
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Levi_Ackerman said:
As long as Djokovic remains in his current form - even if Nadal improves (which he has) - I doubt Nadal will win anything Djokovic is participating in, unless Federer does him a favour by taking Djokovic out.

I really can't see Nadal winning Roland Garros. But God, I hope I'm wrong. I really do.
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Come on, Roland Garros is still Nadal's fortress. The siege continues and considering Djokovic current form, he will certainly try to finally conquer it this year, but all outcomes are possible.

Honestly, Nadal's forehand was pretty nasty yesterday and his overall form is clearly improving so I expect Nadal to fire with all weapons by French Open. His serve is currently his only true weakness - it is attackable by Djokovic.
 
Dragan said:
Come on, Roland Garros is still Nadal's fortress. The siege continues and considering Djokovic current form, he will certainly try to finally conquer it this year, but all outcomes are possible.

Honestly, Nadal's forehand was pretty nasty yesterday and his overall form is clearly improving so I expect Nadal to fire with all weapons by French Open. His serve is currently his only true weakness - it is attackable by Djokovic.
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Yeah, Nadal at RG is a tough cookie. You don't only fight his skills, you also fight his reputation and that is a mental fortress.

I think people just seeing Rafa across the net are automatically playing 10% worse.
 
MichaelNadal said:
The AO 2014 final is a nighmarish turning point in retrospect. (at least as things stand today.)
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MichaelNadal said:
I just mean that tournament was the turning point. He never was the same player after the back injury.
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Rafa got injured during the warm-up of the AO 2014 final. He was suffering from that back injury (facet syndrome) all year round. In the end of the year, Rafa said that he had different treatments on his back during the year, they helped him to feel better for a few weeks.
He underwent stem cell treatment on his back in Oct/Nov. 2014. Probably this treatment helped him much more than previous ones, he hasn't mentioned back problems this year.
 
Levi_Ackerman said:
As long as Djokovic remains in his current form - even if Nadal improves (which he has) - I doubt Nadal will win anything Djokovic is participating in, unless Federer does him a favour by taking Djokovic out.

I really can't see Nadal winning Roland Garros. But God, I hope I'm wrong. I really do.
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Unfortunately for Nadal Federer can't take Djokovic before Final and there is no chance situation will change before RG.
 
SpinToWin said:
...The key word is belief and the scary thing to me is that it seems like Nadal is losing his belief...
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That's what Rafa says (he hasn't lost his belief!):
https://twitter.com/fedele_giulio/status/589467303454052352/photo/1
CC8er54W8AATooZ.png
 
As crazy as it sounds, Federer has a better chance of beating Nole in a bestof-3 set match on clay than Nadal, due to the matchup. That's how much Rafa has declined. BUT, Federer has to get to the final to have a chance to beat Nole. This doesn't look good.
 
"My God let Rafa take this RG, and Novak can take next."
That's the same bullocks I've been hearing second season in a row, and although "God listened to prayers" - we have it again.
Novak didn't take CYGS, not even CS, but it's suddenly boring, it's weak era, rules and surfaces should change, Novak should play with chained legs...
I don't think Novak is THAT dominant. And if the guy suddenly starts losing, apart from your joy and happiness, what then ? You won't even consider him to be in the same company as Nadal and Roger.

If anyone deserved to win RG, it's Novak. If the end of the world will come when someone else apart from Rafa wins RG, it won't happen if Novak wins it (be sure of that).
So, just.... let it be (go), ok ?
 
What about Rafa and Murray ? What about Fed ?
Just because they didn't make it to final of MC, it doesn't mean they are less dangerous than they were some months ago. Every tournament has different participants in final.
 
Dragan said:
Come on, Roland Garros is still Nadal's fortress. The siege continues and considering Djokovic current form, he will certainly try to finally conquer it this year, but all outcomes are possible.

Honestly, Nadal's forehand was pretty nasty yesterday and his overall form is clearly improving so I expect Nadal to fire with all weapons by French Open. His serve is currently his only true weakness - it is attackable by Djokovic.
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Pretty much this. Let's just await RG first before writing up the obituary.

That said, Father Time has no mercy on anyone...
 
I agree with a lot of what's being said. As far as losing the edge against Djokovic, I would go a bit further back than AO 2014, I would say that post USO 2013, Djokovic regained the edge mentally against Nadal. WTF 2013 anyone? AO 2014 is when Nadal started to lose confidence in his game against anyone and became vulnerable.

Djokovic currently looks unstoppable, but we all know someone will stop him eventually. Djokovic always performed great at the MS-1000 level, however we all know that when it's a slam or a slam final, he doesn't always display the same level of dominance. As bad as things look for Nadal right now, I still believe he's got more than a fighting chance even if he plays Djokovic. FO is still a bit more than a month away, lot can happen until then.
 
Thinker_145 said:
There was a time I really thought he could win 17 grand slams. While the ship hasn't completely sailed but its increasingly becoming a very unrealistic target.

So now as a huge Nadal fan I would be happy and satisfied with his career if he wins one more Grand Slam because then he would be the undisputed second most successful player of all time. It would be awesome if he can win one more AO but again its much more difficult now. Any GS will have to do.
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When Nadal was in full momentum in 2013, I said he would end up short of Fed's 17. The reason I said that was it was extremely hard to maintain those high levels. Guys on the tours are all very talented and hardworking in general. There is huge money and fame at stake when they step on the court in any grand slam matches. Federer made it look easy when he did it, but people need to realize it doesn't mean Nadal and Djokovic will repeat it.
 
Sysyphus said:
After being pummeled by Stanly the Ever so Manly.
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The funny thing is that we all assume that Nadal would have won if it wasn't for his back. Very few remember how brilliantly Stan played against Berdych and Djokovic. In the first set, Rafa's first serve percentage was perfectly fine, he hit one of the fastest serves he hit in the whole tournament, his average first and second serve speed were one of the highest of all of his matches. He moved perfectly fine and there was absolutely non apparent limitation in his game (that showed only later) and he still lost the set 3-6. The thing that displeases me is that Stan's victory has been unfairly tainted, despite the fact that it was a great accomplishment by a player who conquered his demons, fought valiantly and finally, finally, made it. He deserved it as much as anyone has ever deserved a victory. I just want to remind people of that.

But what I find even more puzzling is that we still go incessantly over it and need to find reasons or excuses for a loss. A loss is a loss and a win is a win, as someone pointed out yesterday in another thread, and that's it. The beauty of winning is that all the pieces came together: fitness, talent, strategy, health and even luck. And if you lost is because the pieces didn't come together, as simple as that, without need for further anything...
 
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