Discussion in 'Strings' started by corners, Feb 22, 2012.
NG/ZX is not NG/Poly. Are you slow on the uptake?
I think personal attacks are against forum rules, and I'm not getting sucked into this. If you want to keep at it, go ahead. Just giving you fair warning that's all.
It's not a personal attack, its a legitimate question.
You've been told by everyone in the other thread that if you're saying the string is too powerful at 50lbs and you're spraying the ball all over the place, that you should string it higher.
What part of that don't you get it?
Ok, NG/ZX should be strung higher. I get it. I just don't see enough potential in this setup to try it again because there's absolutely nothing about it that I like. Then when I factor in drawbacks such as high cost and worrying about moisture, it just doesn't have any appeal to me at this point. Full gut is playable at low tensions, and so is NG/Poly even in the 40's. NG/ZX is not.
ZX/Multi, so far, is light years better. The only setups I've tried that had more spin and control had poly in them. This one doesn't hurt my arm and has played consistently now for over 6 hours and counting. When the 17g stuff comes in I'm going to order both 17g and 16L.
You don't see 'enough potential' because for trillionth time....YOU STRUNG IT TOO LOW.
Yeah, my club has a pretty nice electronic machine. I'm sure I could provide my own string and have them do it for me.
Vantage 95, 63 flex.
Haven't used full gut. With Co_Focus as a cross, I go lower at 51/47.
Perhaps the wrong tension but unlikely for the other 2 comments.
This string seems to be selling really well. TW had over 40 sets of the red and wheat just over a week ago. Now they're out of stock again until 4 July.
We both need to shut up! Good for Ashaway though.
Interesting observation on my kevlar 1.10mm / ZX Wheat 1.27 setup:
After 30h or so of play the 18g kevlar is more than half-way sawed through. The stringbed is playing nicely and quite crisp but spin-friendly.
But today, I started noticing that I was having trouble with my forehand - seemed like a weighting issue as my MgR/I suddenly felt too low.
Sure enough I came home and measured, my swingweight had nudged up from 371 after stringing to 373. It was enough to throw off my forehand. The hoop had increased length by about 1mm since stringing, meaning the kevlar had stretched out more than the ZX. When I use kevlar/poly, the opposite happens and the racquet drops length and SW over time.
A flea jumped on my racket today and totally ruined my tweener.
So I guess that's probably an indication that the ZX is holding tension better and squeezing the head to make it longer while the poly loses too much tension?
Yes. I think the ZX has a similar relaxation profile to kevlar, but when the kevlar starts to notch deeply, then the kevlar starts to lose it's ability to keep up. Poly loses tension at about the same rate as kevlar for the first hour, then after that the poly keeps dropping but the kevlar holds.
These strings are starting to give me some tennis elbow in my new racket just after 2 sessions, gonna cut them out and replace them with X one biphase, which I've been using in my other rackets. Otherwise they play ok and look durable.
Full bed of plastic is always troublesome. I see no reason to use Zyex (or poly) for anything but crosses.
It's practically impossible to develop tennis elbow after just 2 hitting sessions. Tennis elbow is caused by accumulated damage to the tendon fibres over time, and the person not allowing sufficient time for the tendons to heal fully as a result of the which the tendon microfibres heal in a way that becomes scattered rather than healing and repairing longitunally along the length of the tendon.
As you're a beginning tennis player in their late 30s, its far more likely that any supposed tennis elbow that you have is as a result of an accumulation of things that you've been doing in the last year, rather than two hitting sessions with ZX, a string that produces even less accumulated impact stress than even X1. It's like someone eating a steak sandwich, having a heart attack and saying it was the particular steak sandwich that was the cause rather than any lifestyle factors in the preceding decade(s).
I had a great hitting session the other day with my normal full bed poly. But the day after I don't half feel fatigued. When I played with full bed ZX and had similar hitting sessions, I felt fresh as a daisy the next day. I could have played 2-3 hours a day for 6 days week with it. With poly, I tend to build in rest days, not because I'm injured but because I feel more worn out the day afterward any long, high tempo hitting sessions. In comparison, it's really unusual how little fatigue ZX puts on the arm, shoulder, body, how less tired you feel the next day etc.
Then I won't call it tennis elbow. I'll call it elbow pain. It may just be a coincidence that, though I've been playing very regularly without any discomfort at all for the last year or so, it's only just after today's session with a new Pro Staff 85 and these Zyex strings that I felt this elbow pain. Maybe more to do with the new racket (and inevitable mis-hits) than the strings, I'll experiment more.
I find the X1 Biphase extremely comfortable, but they don't last very long, which is the only reason I tried the Zyex.
Haven't tried hybrids yet, I'm a bit concerned that instead of getting the benefits of two different strings (durability AND comfort/feel), I'd be left with a mixture that comes up short in both departments haha.
ZX is alot of things but arm unfriendly definitely isn't one of them. If I were you, I'd have a look at other possible factors. The PS85 for instance is a very demanding stick for a new player and unless you're getting alot of initial coaching, its alot of weight to be throwing around for someone who has yet to fully develop their stroking fundamentals, technique and swing mechanics.
Unless you are a flat hitter, benefit is quite obvious: more elastic string slides over smooth poly or Zyex and snaps back to improve spin. Full bed poly interlocks because of denting and then main advantage of poly is gone.
Try synthetic gut mains with smooth poly crosses -- cheap, durable, spinny and less harmful than poly mains.
I've seen all the reviews, wich is why I bought the racket, to develop my game.
You speak with a lot of conviction about this Zyex string. It seems to me like its a very new and untested technology, are you sure it's supposed to be arm friendly?
Even recently there's been talk about how this string should be strung at higher tensions, rather than at he lower values recommended on the product's own website. Seems like he jury is still out on how this string works, what it does and how it may affect your arm.
I'll have a go at what you suggest.
I've tested many sets in different configurations and racquets and it's definitely an arm friendly string. Lab stiffness numbers are also very low and there have been no adverse reports on this issue from the various playtests.
That said I still play with full bed Cyclone as my #1 string(!) Just has great blend of characteristics, not least the spin and grab on the ball, even if its playability is much more short lived.
The jury is still out on this string in some respects. Some find the string too powerful and cannot control it. Some think the string is too tension sensitive. One thing that is not disputable is that string is extremely arm friendly. Arm friendliness is a function of the strings stiffness. Only natural gut strings have a lower stiffness than Monogut ZX.
You should definitely take a look at some of the other factors that could be causing your elbow pain.
I've tried a ton of strings and my arm is sensitive. While ZX does not feel as comfortable on impact as natural gut, it does not bother my arm at all. My guess is the new racket is causing the problems for you. In general with equipment, you should only make 1 change at a time.
So you guys reckon it's a good idea to use this string in a full bed? Or is there any reason to use it in some sort of hybrid?
As I said before, no reason to use it in a full bed. My current setup is Forten Sweet 16 Gold mains, ZX crosses and it feels better the more I use it. You won't get more spin or power or comfort or durability by going full bed.
I have yet to see how this setup ages, when it's close to 15 hours. Forten Sweet plays pretty much the same till it breaks with gradual tension/elasticity loss, don't know about ZX
I'm of the opposite opinion. This string performs very well as a full bed. It is my 2nd favorite setup that I've ever used.
...and you don't believe in snap back effect too
For those who do, any full bed will quickly dent and lock up at the intersections. Synthetic gut notches but don't really put a dent on poly or Zyex crosses. Some natural guts do not even notch very much, and just keep on sliding on poly "rails" and snap back.
I agree that ZX is arm friendly, but I've always been skeptical about the RSI numbers. There have been threads in the past debating the usefulness of these numbers. For instance, there are some poly strings that have a lower stiffness index than some multis. We all know Wilson NXT is a soft arm friendly string, but it's rated stiffer than Dunlop Black Widow. I'd actually be more interested in how the stiffness index changes over time. I'm fine with poly for the first few hours, but it eventually dies and then gets tough on my arm.
There is no doubt that numbers are not gospel. More of a useful guide. Nothing can take the place of actual playing experience.
The correlation between stiffness and arm friendliness is quite high. Mono vs multi will also play into arm friendliness, though difficult to measure.
I think the snap back effect has a very minor effect on spin production; however, my spinniest setups tend to be with shaped "grabby" strings. So the shape of the string is more important for me than snap back.
You could both be right. Maybe the shaped strings reduce inter string friction, and therefore allow the strings slide more freely against each other therefore snap back.
I had an experience with both snap back and grabby in one set up. Tour Bite / NXT Tour set up slid around for a while and gave a good amount of spin. When the cross got chewed, the strings didn't slide/snap back any more. The Tour Bite lived up to it's name and still produced spin.
I agree. Dunlop Black Widow mains were the spinniest ever, with smooth Gosen OGSM crosses. For a few hours at least.
But then I tried this edgy WC B5E with Forten Sweet crosses and was very disappointed. Just does not feel like mains grab the ball, so boardy. Forten Sweet is just too rough/sticky to allow any sliding. If anything, it gets tough on the arm when mains do not slide/snap back.
I would gladly play with shaped/sharp poly mains and smooth crosses if I could restring every 2-3 hitting sessions. Otherwise edges wear out and elasticity goes away - no spin from string shape or texture or snap back.
Dunlop Black Widow was TOO spinny for me. Everything landed in the service box when I tried it as a main. Could have been the wrong tension but it was an interesting experience. Saying B5E does not grab the ball is like saying Gosen OGSM is not stiff for a synthetic gut.
BW + ultra spinny stick + mikeler's whippy arms = service box.
For the rest of us BW is okay ;-)
That was back in the PST days.
What tension differential did you use for full bed ZX compared to normal mutli. Also what is your favorite set up?
Can this string give good control with high tension?
Using 56 pounds on a lockout.
I have this ZX red strung in my crosses on I Prestige MP with Genesis Spin X (i like Red). Im used to deader multi and at first i didnt like it. Lets say its really growing on me..why?? comfort and spin!! The Power is higher but you get Poly like spin without confort/shoulder issues. im a big fan. 4.5 player semi-western FH
What tension did you string it at? And again can the power be taken out of this string with high tension?
I don't think you can string ZX high enough to get the power down to poly levels. You probably don't want to go over Ashaway's recommended max of 60 pounds. I know that at 54 CP (which is equal to about 60-62 on a lockout) this string has as much power as a powerful multi, and it already starts to feel harsh (albeit no arm pain). I might actually go a little lower to soften up the feel.
i put Poly in mains at 52 and ZX at 57
Of course, you can.
ZX 1.27 at 60lbs CP for example is lower powered than any of the polys that I use which are typically strung in the low 50s.
You've never played with ZX as full bed, yet you say that you hate it. Illogical, but fine. You went on to play with gut/ZX at the wrong tension and only then for 5 minutes. You seem have an incredible tendancy to make repeated posts about his string that give the wrong information and wrong advice.
If someone was so inclined, I suspect that over 60lbs on a lock out machine would be fine, since I've strung full bed at that tension CP without the string breaking etc.
I've strung at 54 CP in a 96/16x20 and 95/18x20. Doesn't feel harsh at all.
I never pay any attention to what the string's recommended tension range, to me that is a general recommendation. If you only went to 54 lbs. that is not very high so maybe there is hope for good control if strung in the high 60's.
My set up right now is gamma power play kevlar at 64 lbs. with 16 g. blue gear x's at 68 lbs. So I will try that same set up, but with the ashaway zyex mono x's instead of the blue gear.
Glad to hear that you got good control from the ZX at 60 lbs. I am waiting for the ZX to come in and give it a try.
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